High beam and fog light relay

[HUMONGO]

Has anyone figured out hoe to remove/bypass the relay that turns off the foglights when you turn the high beams on? Sometimes it would be nice to have a little extra light.

[Cesar]

How good would you say you are with relays and wires??

I have old write up on TJ Wranglers on how to do that. Not sure what the EXACT process is on JK's?

What I do know is that you can find the relay that controls the fog lights. There is a wire that interrupts the power source to your relay when you hit the high beam. If you were to find that, and eliminate it. Or you could even run a separate power supply to your fog light relay, but still use the stock factory fog light switch.

That's all I've got for now.

[HUMONGO]

I'm still waiting on my FSM, might be easier to do with a wiring diagram.

[SabrToothSqrl]

its prolly a good idea to keep a switch in the mix if you have to get it inspected... in PA that may not be legal...

If you wire in a hidden switch, ta da... legal again...

[HUMONGO]

That's what I love about Maryland...I'll never have to my Jeep inspected. Bought it off the lot and unless I let my registration lapse, I'm good for life!

[Hip2u77]

Running the fogs and high beams together actually hurts your distance vision. Your pupils adjust to the bright light from the fogs making it harder to see down the road where it's darker.

I'd seriously consider not doing the mod. If you need more light then consider swapping in some Cibie E-Codes, and better bulbs. As someone that's done the upgrade the difference is literally night and day. (Even though it is a $200 upgrade it was WELL worth the money. The high beams are actually useful now at speeds over 30 mph.)

Just my .02

[este]

Not sure what the EXACT process is on JK's?

Its not even close to TJ. The TIPM feeds everything on the JK, plus not one single light in the JK is driven by a 12V feed. Its all PWM.

I'll have lots more info about this in a faq I'm making for *******.... And I'll post it here when the admin stops censoring JKB0ARD

It is possible to get these fog lights on regardless of headlights in a JK but its a lot more more complex then TJ was.

ST

[HUMONGO]

Just my .02

And it's taken with gratitude!

[CHOPPER]

HUMONGO

I'd seriously consider not doing the mod. If you need more light then consider swapping in some Cibie E-Codes, and better bulbs. As someone that's done the upgrade the difference is literally night and day. (Even though it is a $200 upgrade it was WELL worth the money. The high beams are actually useful now at speeds over 30 mph.)

In regards to the advice that "Hip2u77" gave you...
Here's a link to another post that has so much info on changing the headlights that it's almost too indepth, but it's a great post none the less.

http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=1580

[HUMONGO]

HUMONGO



In regards to the advice that "Hip2u77" gave you...
Here's a link to another post that has so much info on changing the headlights that it's almost too indepth, but it's a great post none the less.

http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=1580

Yeah, read that. Made my head hurt. But I bookmarked it for when I'm sober. I bookmarked it last week and still haven't had a chance to read it yet!!! :rotflmao1:

I was thinking about doing some swaps, but I'm in a bit over my head with the headlight 101 stuff. I can grudge it out, but I still have alot of questions.
I know brighter bulbs ='s brighter lights, but WTF are "e-codes" exactly? Do I get to keep the round plastic look? I like them, but from past experience, I know they get all dull and chipped over time. Are there glass ones to duplicate the look? Do e-codes replace the entire housing? etc........

[Hip2u77]

Yeah, read that. Made my head hurt. But I bookmarked it for when I'm sober. I bookmarked it last week and still haven't had a chance to read it yet!!! :rotflmao1:

I was thinking about doing some swaps, but I'm in a bit over my head with the headlight 101 stuff. I can grudge it out, but I still have alot of questions.


I know brighter bulbs ='s brighter lights, but WTF are "e-codes" exactly?

On the forums when you hear the term "e-codes" they're (for the most part) talking about Cibie E-Code replacement headlights. They're a popular upgrade on a lot of vehicles. . . even though they're not actually D.O.T. approved. I think the "E" signifies they passed the ECE (Economic Commission for Europe) regulations. I.E. They're legal in Europe.


Do I get to keep the round plastic look? I like them, but from past experience, I know they get all dull and chipped over time. Are there glass ones to duplicate the look? Do e-codes replace the entire housing? etc........

The Cibie E-codes replace the entire housing / reflector, and uses a H4 bulb. They're a direct bolt in, but you'll have to wire in a new plug to work with the H4 bulb. The best way to do it is running all new wires. Use the factory wires to trip two relays. . . one for the high beam, and one for the low beams and then run all new wires to the new plugs. This eliminates any voltage loss from the factories small wires and will allow you to use a higher wattage bulb.

The factory reflectors are plastic, don't have a real good beam pattern and the wires are too thin to handle higher watt bulbs. The Cibie E-codes have a better all around beam pattern, and it has a sharp cut off on the low beam so you can increase the wattage without blinding other drivers, and they're glass so they'll handle the higher heat.

Here's a shortcut to my post (in the link you saved) where you can see what the Cibie E-codes look like installed in our JK.
http://www.jk-forum.com/showpost.php?p=13047&postcount=16

[HUMONGO]

That looks awesome! What's the total cost on a setup like that?

[Hip2u77]

That looks awesome! What's the total cost on a setup like that?

The Headlights - $215 (2 Cibie e-codes, 2 - Osram 70/65w bulbs, relay kit [2 relays, 2 plugs, terminals and fuse holder.] 12g wire not included) www.danielsternlighting.com

I didn't buy mine from him and wasn't happy with the plugs or bulbs I got from aardvark international. They weren't the Osram bulbs.


Driving lights - $265 (2 Lightforce 170mm Strikers, no wiring harness included)
I bought them at www.4x4rockshop.com and built my own wiring harness using a switch under the hood that allows me to choose whether they come on with the high beams, or with an in cab switch.

[csims723]

Yeah, read that. Made my head hurt. But I bookmarked it for when I'm sober. I bookmarked it last week and still haven't had a chance to read it yet!!! :rotflmao1:

I was thinking about doing some swaps, but I'm in a bit over my head with the headlight 101 stuff. I can grudge it out, but I still have alot of questions.
I know brighter bulbs ='s brighter lights, but WTF are "e-codes" exactly? Do I get to keep the round plastic look? I like them, but from past experience, I know they get all dull and chipped over time. Are there glass ones to duplicate the look? Do e-codes replace the entire housing? etc........

E Codes are Euro lights use in europe. Their standards are higher that DOT. You just order a left side drive set of Cybie E-codes and it is a direct replacement for the whole light tub and all. It looks the same with the exception to the light diffusion cuts on the glass. To really get the most out of the Ecodes you have to add relays in line and upgrade the factory wires from the relay to the lights.

[Hip2u77]

E Codes are Euro lights use in europe. Their standards are higher that DOT. You just order a left side drive set of Cybie E-codes and it is a direct replacement for the whole light tub and all. It looks the same with the exception to the light diffusion cuts on the glass. To really get the most out of the Ecodes you have to add relays in line and upgrade the factory wires from the relay to the lights.

Just to clarify a bit. You have to wire in a new plug and use an H4 bulb. The factory plug / bulb will not fit in the e-code reflectors.

You can use the factory wiring if you stick to a close to stock watt bulb, but as he stated it's best to run all new wires.

What that means is. . .

You'll run new thicker (12g is good) wires (with fuse holders) from the battery to two relays. One for high, and one for low beam. You'll run 4 new 12g wires from the relays to the lights. (2 for each light). You'll run new 12g ground wires from the relays, and from the lights both, and you'll tap into the factory wiring to run two wires (one for high, one for low beam) to trip the relays.

It's not hard, just time consuming as you'll want to solder and shrink wrap all your connections.

Daniel Stern explains it a little better on his site, and about halfway down the page is a diagram. "Upgraded Headlamp Circuit With Relays. . ." http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html

[jpaddict]

I have the Cibie E-codes, from Daniel Stern. I have not yet had time to write up a full report and post the photos I took while doing the project, but the lights are DRAMATICALLY BETTER!:yup:

These Cibie lights are brighter than the HID lamps on my Mercedes E55.

Just do the exact wiring harness spelled out by DS, and you will be fine. Somewhat time consuming if you are electrically challenged (I am), but worth it.

[jdrogers]

OK, I did some looking into the actual subject matter for this thread... the typical TJ style modification to running the fog lights and the high beams together.

What I get from the FSM is that this isn't going to happen on the JK. Here is the description of the fog lights from the FSM:

FRONT FOG LAMPS
The front fog lamps have a path to ground at all times through their connection to the engine compartment wire harness. The engine compartment wire harness has takeouts with eyelet terminals that are secured by nuts to ground studs on the front end sheet metal within the engine compartment. The Steering Control Module (SCM) monitors a hard wired multiplex input from the left multi-function switch to determine whether the fog lamps are selected, then sends an electronic front fog lamp switch status message to the EMIC over the Local Interface Network (LIN) data bus and the EMIC relays an electronic front fog lamp request message to the TIPM over the CAN data bus.

When the TIPM receives a front fog lamp request message it then controls front fog lamp operation by controlling a battery voltage output through high side drivers on right and left fog lamp feed circuits. The TIPM also sends the appropriate electronic message back to the EMIC to illuminate or extinguish the front fog lamp indicator. In certain markets where required, the TIPM will automatically de-energize the front fog lamps any time the headlamp high beams are selected.

The TIPM also provides a battery saver (load shedding) feature for the front fog lamps, which will turn these lamps OFF if they are left ON for more than about eight minutes with the ignition switch in the LOCK position, if there is a charging system failure, or if the electrical system voltage falls below about 11.75 volts for more than about 30 seconds. The TIPM will return the front fog lamps to normal operation when it detects that system voltage is greater than 13.0 volts for more than about 30 seconds.

Each front fog lamp includes an integral adjustment screw to be used for static aiming of the fog lamp beams.

There is not longer a separate relay that controls the fog lights so you cannot modify it anymore. :mad:

[HUMONGO]

Thanks for all the responses. Think I'll look into the e-codes. Sucks that they rewired the relays.

[SpudRacer]

So what would prevent one from tapping 12V from the battery (or equivocal supply) and send it to the positive wire of the fog lights to be controlled by a separate relay which is energized by 12V tapped from the high beam circuit?

Unless this generates a trouble code in the computer by sending 12V UP the fog light wires to the computer, it should work normally in the low beam position, and keep them on when the high beams are on.

Tom
Bryson City, NC

[jdrogers]

That would probably work fine. So anytime the high beams were on the fog lights would be on too.

[SpudRacer]

That would probably work fine. So anytime the high beams were on the fog lights would be on too.

Exactly! I'll add this to my ever growing list of modifications.

Tomorrow if time and weather permit, I'll be testing the trailer wiring to see what kind of voltage comes out for the tail-lights and brake lights. If it is all 12V, then I'll see what happens with the key in accessory, battery disconnected, and 12v sent UP the wire from a separate battery. I'm hoping just the tail lights and brake lights will come on. If that is the case, I will run my tow wiring from the RV directly to the trailer harness and plug in there, bypassing the need for diodes or extra bulbs.

Tom
Bryson City, NC

[JeeperTJ]

I must say I'm a bit disappointed in the on road illumination of the stock hi beams without foglights. Not to mention off-road... I would like to run the switch to activate the relay powered off the JK hi beam circut. Otherwise passing drivers will be constantly beaming me to shut down my Hella 500's = too bright for low beams. Can't you just tie directly into the positive high beam wire at the bulb? I guess I'll wait for more detail before I try it....This similar set up worked get on my Nissan 4X4 P/U.

Ciao! Ted

[Hip2u77]

I must say I'm a bit disappointed in the on road illumination of the stock hi beams without foglights. Not to mention off-road... I would like to run the switch to turn on the relay to the hi beam circut otherwise passing drivers will be constantly beaming me to shut down my Hella 500's = too bright for low beans. Can't you just tie directly into the positive high beam wire at the bulb? I guess I'll wait for more detail before I try it....

Ciao! Ted

I put a switch under the hood and one in the cab. The in cab switch is just an on-off for the driving lights, and the one under the hood selects whether the lights turn on with the high beams, or the in cab switch.

For normal on road driving I keep it flipped so the driving lights work with the high beams only.

For off-road I use the in cab switch then I can run the fogs for really close distance, low beams for medium distance, and driving lights for long distance.

And yes, I just used the high beam wire to trigger the relay.

[dsy]

Save yourself the worry about running the fogs to improve highbeam vis and install a pair of the Cibie E-code lamps with some 85/80w bulbs. You will forget where that fog light switch even is. Running the cibies on low beam when I turn on the fog lamps I can only tell they are on because they make about 8' directly in front of the jeep a little brighter. Other wise the Cibies totaly wash them out, and I'm running 65w Narva Yellowstar bulbs in the fogs.
The Cibies on high beam :D You wont be thinking you need to add more light.
You just need to be real carefull you dont accidentally hit the high beams if there is anyone with in about a mile in front of you.

By the way I have not had one person flash me while I'm running on low beams and the road illumination is much better than it was running the stock high beams.

[Phishjeep]

Save yourself the worry about running the fogs to improve highbeam vis and install a pair of the Cibie E-code lamps with some 85/80w bulbs. You will forget where that fog light switch even is. Running the cibies on low beam when I turn on the fog lamps I can only tell they are on because they make about 8' directly in front of the jeep a little brighter. Other wise the Cibies totaly wash them out, and I'm running 65w Narva Yellowstar bulbs in the fogs.
The Cibies on high beam :D You wont be thinking you need to add more light.
You just need to be real carefull you dont accidentally hit the high beams if there is anyone with in about a mile in front of you.

By the way I have not had one person flash me while I'm running on low beams and the road illumination is much better than it was running the stock high beams.

Did you get yours from Stern Lighting?

[dsy]

Did you get yours from Stern Lighting?

No he did not have anything in stock at the time.

Lamps http://www.talbotco.com/cibie_main_frameset.htm They are the USA importer of Cibie

Bulbs http://www.rallylights.com/hella/H4.asp

Relays- Bosch dual 87 terminals bought local from Car stereo / Alarm installation shop

Prices are about the same where ever you buy from. If he had the stock I probably would have just bought everything in one shot from DS.
The guys at Susquehanna MotorSports (rallylights.com) were really good to deal with also. They mostly carry Hella products but they carry the Osram 85/80w bulbs I wanted also.
I would not settle for anything less than the Cibie Lamps. Best bang for the buck.

[JeeperTJ]

Thanks for all the replys. I already have the Hella 500's mounted on the bumper and I like the 2 swith option idea for on vs off-road driving. Also Cibie bulbs in the factory hi/low do sound like a great idea, I'm just a little afraid of the post I read on building your own wiring harness for the Cibie's. The Hella 500's will be more than enough candlepower for me to fill in for the medium factory hi and lo beams. The JK's come stock with brigher lights than the TJ's!

Ciao! Ted

[2K1TJ]

No he did not have anything in stock at the time.

Lamps http://www.talbotco.com/cibie_main_frameset.htm They are the USA importer of Cibie

Bulbs http://www.rallylights.com/hella/H4.asp

Relays- Bosch dual 87 terminals bought local from Car stereo / Alarm installation shop




Can you list the part #'s that you used, esp. the lamps and bulbs. A write-up would be great too if you could.

Would the JK benefit from just a bulb upgrade w/out changing out the lamp housing and everything? I really didn't want to do all that, but I will if I have to. Thanks.

[dsy]

Can you list the part #'s that you used, esp. the lamps and bulbs. A write-up would be great too if you could.

Would the JK benefit from just a bulb upgrade w/out changing out the lamp housing and everything? I really didn't want to do all that, but I will if I have to. Thanks.


Jeepaddict already did a nice write up here
http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=1995

The stock JK lamps use a H13 bulb which you will not find a higher wattage bulb in now. You have to cut off the stock H13 connector and replace it with a H4 conn to use with the Cibie E-code lamps. As far as part #'s its just 7" round Cibie-E code lamps and the H4 based bulb of your choice. (I'm running the 85/80w Osram bulbs and very pleased) If you want to stay with all stock wiring, they say you can use the 70/65w Osram bulbs.
However talking to a few people that have gone that route I'm doubtful the bulbs are really getting full power. I would go with the lamps and the relay kit from Daniel Stern which includes the new H4 bulb sockets even with the 70/65w bulbs. And run in a min of 14g wire right from the batt terminals through the relays to the new skts.

[HappyCurmudgeon]

Can you list the part #'s that you used, esp. the lamps and bulbs. A write-up would be great too if you could.

Would the JK benefit from just a bulb upgrade w/out changing out the lamp housing and everything? I really didn't want to do all that, but I will if I have to. Thanks.

I picked up a pair of Silverstar H13's over the weekend at a local fleamarket on the cheap.

Has anyone used these? I put one in my motorcycle last year and it really made a big difference on that.

Edit: Oops, nevermind, found the thread.

[2K1TJ]

Jeepaddict already did a nice write up here
http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=1995



Thanks. I'll read through it.

[SpudRacer]

I'm leaning heavily toward going with IPF Headlights with 100/170W bulbs. Properly aligned, they should be OK, and definately bright enough. I had IPF Headlights in my JK for 4 years without ANY problems, and they had 80/110W bulbs.

Tom
Bryson City, NC