4 Low Rules?

[ubergeekj]

What are the rules for using 4 Low? when can I use it? i have always used 4 hi and havent gotten myself stuck but i would like to know when i am supposed to use it before i do get stuck. Where i go offroading, i am in an area with sand, some rocks, clay, and did i mention SAnd! Usually the ground is pretty packed except in some areas where it gets a little soft

[mmcan]

What are the rules for using 4 Low? when can I use it? i have always used 4 hi and havent gotten myself stuck but i would like to know when i am supposed to use it before i do get stuck. Where i go offroading, i am in an area with sand, some rocks, clay, and did i mention SAnd! Usually the ground is pretty packed except in some areas where it gets a little soft

I took "rules" to be a verb here.

[doojer]

4 low will give you more power at slower speeds. Usually most helpful when you need to climb slow and steadily, whether on rocks or on a hill. Low is not the best option for soft sand, since the extra power could end up just digging you in. You should never really need to use a lot of throttle in low, but the extra power will keep you going with less use of the skinny pedal. Low is also good for steep descents, as it will provide compression braking.

Hope that helps.... (and yes, it does rule! :D)

[hig4s]

I have only had my JK in 4wheel low once, basically to make sure it worked OK.. But like has been said, no real rules.. Just like 4 wheel high, only when there is a loose surface, and if you are going very slow use low. I have actually use low on my old YJ in soft sand after getting stuck because I had not aired down..

I dug out the sand from the low points, lowered my tires to 10psi, and put it in 4 wheel low, 1st gear, and gave it NO gas. Just let it idle out. I also always used 4 wheel low when pulling my dad's boat out of the water. Again, 1st gear NO gas and just idle up the ramp.

It is not actually the safest thing to do, but I once forgot to finish straping the boat to the trailer, and just got out and hooked it up while the YJ slowly went up the ramp on its own. it only moves about 1/4 mph.

[IndianaJK]

I don't use 4 low if I plan on going over 10 mph.

[RMEF_lifer]

This is an interesting thread on a topic that a lot of folks that are relatively new to 4 wheeling should understand.

First, a little about my background ... I've been driving 4x4s since I was twelve around the farm and I'm now ... oh 40ish :naw: For the last 5-6 years, I have been a volunteer trail guide for Jeep Jamboree USA and have lead the "newbie" group and this is an issue I see a lot of concern with.

Basically, if you are going to be on a surface off road that you want 4 wheel drive on, and you do not anticipate running continuously above 20 MPH for any length of time, go ahead and shift into 4L. Any other 4wheel drive needs, run in 4H. In the places I wheel in TN, NC, AL, etc., we are mostly on trails and I shift into 4L when I hit the trail head and I shift into 2H when I get back to the trailhead. For a lot of the trails in Moab, I do the same thing. A lot of folks think that 4L is only for slow speed crawling, but it is useful at speeds up to 20 MPH or so. It reduces transmission temps in both auto and manual trannys and prolongs their lives.

Not using 4L does more damage (in general) that using it. For example: last spring, one of my Jamboree participants just refused to shift into 4L except for crossing 2 rocky stream crossings. Everyone else ran 4L from the trail head to the return. I instructed this guy numerous times to run 4L and stay there, but to no avail. Both days, I could smell his clutch complaining and he was having trouble controlling his lurching TJ over small obstacles. On Sunday morning he asked me why his TJ (with 5000 miles on it and just this Jamboree for off road work) was hard to shift and felt "funny" when he accelerated. I explained to him that he had fried his clutch in the two days of trail riding he had been on. Tough lesson to learn, but he just would not listen to me or his fellow jamboree participants.

Sorry for the rant ... but the best rule I can give other than the speed based rule is a paraphrase from sailing: when in doubt, use 4L (in sailing it is "when you think it may be time to reduce sail (reef), you're 30 minutes too late").

A quick read of Mark A. Smith's Guide to Safe, Common-Sense Off-Road Driving available from Jeep Jamboree is a great starting point for folks new to the "sport."

[rant mode off]

[ubergeekj]

Wow thanks! This is very helpful, even went to try it out just a little while ago. Haha 4 Low Rules!!

[bofer84]

It just depends for me....i am one of those guys that trys to make it in 2 wheel drive to show everybody up....i know, cool right lol....i dont know why i do, i just do. For the 6speed owners, its a little easier, as we can use 6th and 4 low, which is almost equivalent to 1st in hi range

[JKSTER]

i agree with using 4L more than people usually do, its just like driving a tractor the lower the gear the easier it is on the tranny and motor, they just don't have to work as hard -- but like was said the 6 speed is easier because you can just put it in a higher gear when on the trail to go a little faster, like 15 mph but in 1st and 4L you can idle out of alot of places 4H and a heavy foot will just break stuff in --- LISTEN TO THE JEEP JAMBOREE GUY, he is telling you this stuff because he has experience and loves the sport, or he wouldn't be out there

[RMEF_lifer]

like 15 mph but in 1st and 4L you can idle out of alot of places 4H and a heavy foot will just break stuff in

Yup ... that's why my Jeep is usually so heavy. I carry a boatload of tools and misc. parts to fix rigs on the trail (usually other folks ... occasionally mine)


--- LISTEN TO THE JEEP JAMBOREE GUY, he is telling you this stuff because he has experience and loves the sport, or he wouldn't be out there

This is true. The trail guides are out there because we love the sport. We're spending our own money (and often breaking our own rigs) getting ready for the event. We work our tails off to make what we hope is an enjoyable experience for all. A simple thanks makes it all worth while.

[drchazz]

On a related note, another newb question - I tested my 4WD out for the first time today in the cul de sac in front of my house just to make sure it worked. It seemed fine except for when I was turning around. That's when the steering wheel started jerking back and forth. I assume that's because I was trying to turn around with the wheels locked together and that it doesn't mean anything is necessarily wrong. I also assume that's why the owner's manual says its for slick or loose surfaces only. Can anyone confirm my assumption or is that not normal?

Thanks,
Bill

08 Silver Sahara

[red rcok]

:eek2: :rotflmao1: :eek2:

[whtIwrk4]

I use 4lo on the trail most of the time because that's when I can turn the lockers on and off. This was also a big reason I went with the 6 speed, (wife wanted auto), so that I coud use a higher gear at will in 4lo. Alot of the time, I'm in 4th 5th and 6th, 4lo.:)

[drchazz]

That is normal and a big NO NO - don't do it again your risking breakage

Damn. Now I'm worried. I just went around the cul de sac. Maybe a 100 foot semi circle. Would it be obvious if I did real damage?

[crux]

Damn. Now I'm worried. I just went around the cul de sac. Maybe a 100 foot semi circle. Would it be obvious if I did real damage?

You should be fine, just don`t make it a habit. If you broke something, you`d know it :yup: .

[drchazz]

Thanks. Hopefully that's the dumbest thing I'll do for a while.

[Bruce K]

We really do owe a debt to those folks in our sport that take the time and effort to become instructors. These people have a real love of it . It was very nice of you to take the time to go into detail on this topic and altho the use of 4 lo could fill a whole conversation, your response and the additional responses were great. Without becoming long winded, I would only add that long periods of inactivity are none to good for internally lubricated parts. That's one reason why I use 4 lo (transfer case) when ever I have an appropriate opportunity. Also, having gotten used to the nice things associated with the "drive by wire" systems in my last 2 vehicles and now on the JK, I really appreciate the reduced sensitivity in pedal input that you gain by using 4 lo when you are negotiating rocks etc. Along with brake modulation it provides a much easier way to add a little finese to your game. By the way, as with any new sport, finding a qualified instructor will add to your enjoyment and perhaps save some unnecessary damage to your investment.

[kntr]

What is the best way to shift into 4LO?

Everytime I shift into 4LO is grinds.

Any secret tips?

[Pete799]

I almost always use 4lo offroad. Often mud or deep snow I find the JK's power to be lacking enough ump to really spin the tries. I have found that 4lo will have ample toque to keep my tires spinning. My friend had a custom built trany for his pickup. It was made rediculously burly to handle his abuse and horse power. He never put it in 4 low becuase his truck had enough horse power to keep the tires spinning and he has a really low t case so he thought it would be too low. Fried his tranny cost him 1200 to fix which was half price becuase he has had so much work done there. He now uses the 4lo that he though would be way to slow and it works better and uses about half as much gas as before. All because he never put it in 4low. I find with the rubi that 2nd gear on my auto 4lo and rear locker on/front sometimes is the best for navigating deep snow and mud. When I put it in high heavy snow or mud would often bog the tires down. Either my engine would work too hard or the constant shifting would case me to loose momentum and get stuck.
What is the best way to shift into 4LO?

Everytime I shift into 4LO is grinds.

Any secret tips?

I try to do it with the truck just barely rolling. I usually do it either slowly rolling down a little hill it must be more of a gradual slope almost unnoticable or by stoping the truck almost completely, then shift into nuetarl then pop it in 4 lo. When I mean slow i mean really slow.

[07crawler]

you just can't wait to snap something off can you?...I run in 4L on the trails all the time..unless it is relatively level for a long stretch....but then I can still go to 6th..(manual trans)

[pearl-drum-man]

What is the best way to shift into 4LO?

Everytime I shift into 4LO is grinds.

Any secret tips?


The owners manual does a good job describing the process, but in short moving slowly (less than 5mph) and shifting the tranny into neutral are the keys for proper, grind free engaging of 4-low.

[kntr]

Anyone else have pointers on how to get this thing into 4lo without grinding?

[pearl-drum-man]

Anyone else have pointers on how to get this thing into 4lo without grinding?


Disengaging the transmission (meaning shifting into neutral) is the key.

[DOCSMITH1504]

Ok so this is a super newb question. What gears on the manual do you use with 4 LO? Do you start in 3rd or 4th gear? All of my previous experience off roading has been with an automatic Army Hummer so I have very little experience with manual 4wd.

[Seryoga]

Ok so this is a super newb question. What gears on the manual do you use with 4 LO? Do you start in 3rd or 4th gear? All of my previous experience off roading has been with an automatic Army Hummer so I have very little experience with manual 4wd.

To start moving use 2nd gear, and after that it depends on what you're doing.

[RubiRedJK]

I use 4lo on the trail most of the time because that's when I can turn the lockers on and off. This was also a big reason I went with the 6 speed, (wife wanted auto), so that I coud use a higher gear at will in 4lo. Alot of the time, I'm in 4th 5th and 6th, 4lo.:)

In the past I have been cautioned against using a gear higher than 4th with 4LO. Anybody agree or have any comments either way??? :thinking::thinking:

[Kupost]

What are the rules for using 4 Low? when can I use it? i have always used 4 hi and havent gotten myself stuck but i would like to know when i am supposed to use it before i do get stuck. Where i go offroading, i am in an area with sand, some rocks, clay, and did i mention SAnd! Usually the ground is pretty packed except in some areas where it gets a little soft

The first rule of 4 low is you don't talk about 4 low.:rotflmao2::rotflmao2::rotflmao2:








Sorry, couldn't resist.

[BlackNorthernJK]

The first rule of 4 low is you don't talk about 4 low.:rotflmao2::rotflmao2::rotflmao2:


:bleh: nice :rotflmao2:

Gotta agree whole heartedly with Jamboree dude, 4Lows the way to go on the trail, when I need to the added traction it's there, when I need the slow finese it's already there, and really how often are you travelling at greater than 20mph on the trail anyways?? I hope not much. Oh, and my clutch loves me :yup:

[Nght&Day-jk]

most of what i do is mud so i always like using the lockers, but i always have trouble with shifting in and out of 4L because i can never get it right i always seem to grind gears no matter how i do it (and i do it as the manual says) so ive started to give up because i dont want to mess up gears that dont even have 2k miles on them yet.. but after reading this it seems like ima just have to get used to putting it into 4L.

and its true you never run over 20 mph on a trail but geez is this thing slow in 4L

[RedneckJeep]

Do they not sell owner's manuals with Jeeps in other parts of the country? :thinking:

[tkob1060]

Do they not sell owner's manuals with Jeeps in other parts of the country? :thinking:

wouldnt it be good if a lot more people actually read them?

[Nght&Day-jk]

i almost studied the manual and still can get this right :dontknow2:

[Radcliffe1]

Gee I carry mine in the glovebox and have even stopped to read it on the trail. But, I'll admit the shifting into N before getting into 4L is not yet 'second nature'. So it helps to see this kind of thread. And I agree it can't hurt to read the Owners Man. a few times, every once in a while.

[drone17]

Not to beat a dead horse use 4lo on trails what about if there is snow on the roads and you are doing over 20 possibly ?

[drone17]

ok so if i am out delivering the mail or saving stranded h2 and h3's what should i use?:thinking:

[NTXJK]

Do not go mudding in 4low you will get stuck everytime:yup:

[NTXJK]

I guess I broken the rule I stay in 4hi in the mud and do well another guy on the forum was in 4lo and got stuck in the spots I went right over :thinking:

[Nght&Day-jk]

alot of guys run 2H on the trails when ive gone they only go into 4H when about to go into mud holes.. but again why wouldnt you run 4L in mud? if your stuck how else would you put the lockers on..

[Nght&Day-jk]

yeah but once its gone as far as it can.. your gonna need to get unstuck and thats when lockers come in most of the time in my case.. :rotflmao1:

[Eugene]

Just a few observations on 4Lo. 4lo actually puts more stress on the running gear as it converts speed into torque. Few people break axels in 4hi. Also for any given speed 4lo puts more strain on the engine and transmission due to the increase in rpms needed to maintain that speed. I run in 4lo and find myself shifting into 5th or 6th to keep the rpms in a manageable range and when sitching back to 4hi is inconvieneient.
Running in 4hi has also alot to do with proper axel ratios. The story above about the YJ frying a clutch may have to do more with oversized tires and a low ratio in the axel than with not being in 4lo. I have a Rubicon (4:1) and am running 35's. With the stock 4:10's I on occasion smelled clutch when negotiating an obstacle in 4hi, requiring me to go to 4lo. There wasn't enough ooomph to power over things. Since I installed my 4:88's I have run those same trails in 4hi without any problem.
Also running in 4lo in snow has more to do with wheel spin than anything else. In moderate snow depths 4hi is fine. In deeper snow where you want to go 'slow' and pack the trail 4lo is more convenient and it prevents wheel spin on starting and stopping, which is the number one reason for digging in and getting stuck. An this is the opposite for mud and sand where wheel spin is what keeps you 'on top'.
And one more. Unless your TC has a viscous clutch, four wheel hi or lo locks the front and rear axels together. ANd for all those out there using 4lo to get the locker. Search the net for mods that allow you to bypass the computer and get lockers whenever you want them (4hi/lo/2wd). I did it and it's not hard.
Oops one more one more thing. 4lo is great for engine breaking when going down really steep or technical stuff. But if I am just coming down moderate terrain I switch to 4hi and use my brakes. Thats what they are for. Using the engine/clutch/transmission for a brake puts alot of stress on these parts. And I had a raod racer tell me that the clutch was designed to be a clutch and the brakes to be brakes, so use them that way.

[notenuftoys]

The story above about the YJ frying a clutch may have to do more with oversized tires and a low ratio in the axel than with not being in 4lo.

You're probably right about the low ratio, but it's that the point. Use 4lo to overcome a low rear end ratio.

Joining a local club is an excellent way to learn. Yesterday was my first real trail run, all day, over stuff that I would never have guessed a stock Jeep could go through. But the Lone Star Jeep Club is an awesome group, and the experienced trail guys never hesitated helping out, giving me pointers. Even had a plug handy when the sidewall was punched! We ran in 4lo the entire day, and many cases 1st gear 4lo is what it took to go up a hill, navigating rocks and roots on the way.

[Eugene]

[QUOTE=notenuftoys;1141955]You're probably right about the low ratio, but it's that the point. Use 4lo to overcome a low rear end ratio.

Using four low to overcome the fact that my rig was no longer geared correctly when I switched to 35's is a bandaid not a fix. By regearing I now am able to choose the proper gearing for the trai and not be forced to compromise and use 4lo.

[BBirish]

4 LO RULES !!!!!!! :clap:

[hurstrescue]

Just a few observations on 4Lo. 4lo actually puts more stress on the running gear as it converts speed into torque. Few people break axels in 4hi. Also for any given speed 4lo puts more strain on the engine and transmission due to the increase in rpms needed to maintain that speed. I run in 4lo and find myself shifting into 5th or 6th to keep the rpms in a manageable range and when sitching back to 4hi is inconvieneient.
Running in 4hi has also alot to do with proper axel ratios. The story above about the YJ frying a clutch may have to do more with oversized tires and a low ratio in the axel than with not being in 4lo. I have a Rubicon (4:1) and am running 35's. With the stock 4:10's I on occasion smelled clutch when negotiating an obstacle in 4hi, requiring me to go to 4lo. There wasn't enough ooomph to power over things. Since I installed my 4:88's I have run those same trails in 4hi without any problem.
Also running in 4lo in snow has more to do with wheel spin than anything else. In moderate snow depths 4hi is fine. In deeper snow where you want to go 'slow' and pack the trail 4lo is more convenient and it prevents wheel spin on starting and stopping, which is the number one reason for digging in and getting stuck. An this is the opposite for mud and sand where wheel spin is what keeps you 'on top'.
And one more. Unless your TC has a viscous clutch, four wheel hi or lo locks the front and rear axels together. ANd for all those out there using 4lo to get the locker. Search the net for mods that allow you to bypass the computer and get lockers whenever you want them (4hi/lo/2wd). I did it and it's not hard.
Oops one more one more thing. 4lo is great for engine breaking when going down really steep or technical stuff. But if I am just coming down moderate terrain I switch to 4hi and use my brakes. Thats what they are for. Using the engine/clutch/transmission for a brake puts alot of stress on these parts. And I had a raod racer tell me that the clutch was designed to be a clutch and the brakes to be brakes, so use them that way.

Finally....a voice of reason....

I'm amazed how many people throw it in 4lo as soon as they hit the trail. :thinking:

I would recommend getting out there and see what you Jeep will do before you put it in 4lo. You would be amazed where 2wd will get you.

[CT Rubi]

Taking an off-road course is the best money you can spend. For those in the Northeast there is an excellent one, Overland Experts based in CT. The guy who runs the place is named Bruce and is incredibly knowledgeable.

4Lo is best to use when you have a solid surface, not good in sand, mud or snow, there is too much torque and the wheels will spin. 4Lo is the best way to descend a steep hill, you don’t touch the break, let the vehicle control the speed for you. Using your breaks can be chancy; if they get overheated you are in trouble.

Check out the Hill Descent section of this write-up. pps.net.au/4wdencounter/4wdtech/hills.html

[GoodysGotaCuda]

I just went out this last Sunday in my Rubicon. Second time out, its a Rubicon with a 6spd. I left it in 4-low most of the time, found myself in 4th/5th. But i feel there is less strain on most components that way. I'm sketchy about running 4high and steep grades with the manual. Too much stress on things for me. Those with an auto I don't think realize the load as much, and maybe should have a trans temp gauge? I know my friends JK with 3.21s, 33s, auto and a basic X doesn't. He rides 4-hi often and just keeps in the throttle...but I bet his trans hates him more than he thinks!

[Eugene]

Taking an off-road course is the best money you can spend. For those in the Northeast there is an excellent one, Overland Experts based in CT. The guy who runs the place is named Bruce and is incredibly knowledgeable.

Actually AIST (Ass In Seat Time) with people who wheel is the best money you can spend. Never been to a offraod school so I really can't tell you much about the curriculum, but I do wheel alot and I have learned by doing, asking alot of question, and basically learning by my own experiences.

4Lo is best to use when you have a solid surface, not good in sand, mud or snow, there is too much torque and the wheels will spin. 4Lo is the best way to descend a steep hill, you don’t touch the break, let the vehicle control the speed for you. Using your breaks can be chancy; if they get overheated you are in trouble.

I find that 4lo minimizes wheel spin as it allows you better throttle control. And as 4lo may not be useful in deep sand and mud, 4lo has gotten me through sand, mud, loose gravel, and sand covered slickrock. Again remember it as much about throttle control as torque.
As far as steep inclines that depends on what the trail is like and what is at the bottom. If it is not to technical and there is a nice run out at the end, use your brakes. Thats what they are there for. And if you are overheating your breaks your doing something wrong. There is no set rule for when to use any of your offroad weapons. That comes with time and experience, and I am always learning. But my avenue of attack on any tarils is 2wd till I need 4wd, 4hi till I need 4lo, 4lo rear locker if need be, and if that doesn't work 4lo front and rear locker. And after I negotiate that obstacle the lockers come off and I decide if going back to 4hi is worth it. But it always is different.

[CT Rubi]

Taking an off-road course is the best money you can spend. For those in the Northeast there is an excellent one, Overland Experts based in CT. The guy who runs the place is named Bruce and is incredibly knowledgeable.

Actually AIST (Ass In Seat Time) with people who wheel is the best money you can spend. Never been to a offraod school so I really can't tell you much about the curriculum, but I do wheel alot and I have learned by doing, asking alot of question, and basically learning by my own experiences.

4Lo is best to use when you have a solid surface, not good in sand, mud or snow, there is too much torque and the wheels will spin. 4Lo is the best way to descend a steep hill, you don’t touch the break, let the vehicle control the speed for you. Using your breaks can be chancy; if they get overheated you are in trouble.

I find that 4lo minimizes wheel spin as it allows you better throttle control. And as 4lo may not be useful in deep sand and mud, 4lo has gotten me through sand, mud, loose gravel, and sand covered slickrock. Again remember it as much about throttle control as torque.
As far as steep inclines that depends on what the trail is like and what is at the bottom. If it is not to technical and there is a nice run out at the end, use your brakes. Thats what they are there for. And if you are overheating your breaks your doing something wrong. There is no set rule for when to use any of your offroad weapons. That comes with time and experience, and I am always learning. But my avenue of attack on any tarils is 2wd till I need 4wd, 4hi till I need 4lo, 4lo rear locker if need be, and if that doesn't work 4lo front and rear locker. And after I negotiate that obstacle the lockers come off and I decide if going back to 4hi is worth it. But it always is different.


You and your buddies better get in touch with Jeep and tell them they have it all wrong; this is directly off of their website:

For downhill travel, always use the lowest gear with a manual transmission. When descending a hill in low-range, do not disengage the clutch and allow the vehicle to coast. Severe damage to your clutch disc may result. Allow the gears and engine compression to slow you down, using the brakes only to fine-tune your speed. If equipped with an automatic transmission, use low-range and the lowest drive setting. NOTE: NEVER drive a hill at an angle. If the hill is very steep and you don't feel confident that you or your vehicle can make it up, then don't attempt it.

I completely agree that there is no substitute for experience but there is also good, safe technique too.

[Eugene]

You and your buddies better get in touch with Jeep and tell them they have it all wrong; this is directly off of their website:
-What exactly are we to get in touch with jeep about?


For downhill travel, always use the lowest gear with a manual transmission.
-This is a no brainer, everyone knows this, but it doesn't say use 4lo nor does it advise you to do anything else.

When descending a hill in low-range, do not disengage the clutch and allow the vehicle to coast. Severe damage to your clutch disc may result.
-You'll have to explain how I am going to damage my clutch while descending with it disengaged. Plus who would disengage there tranny in the middle of a steep descent. Plus you are going to fry your brakes (was that in the brakes section?)

Allow the gears and engine compression to slow you down, using the brakes only to fine-tune your speed.
-Again a no brainer. But again it does not say what range you should be in when you start.


If equipped with an automatic transmission, use low-range and the lowest drive setting. NOTE: NEVER drive a hill at an angle. If the hill is very steep and you don't feel confident that you or your vehicle can make it up, then don't attempt it.
Don't have an auto in my Jeep, but have done it in other vehicles.

[JMP8562]

I don't use 4 low if I plan on going over 10 mph.

i agree. slow going trails, it helps you from riding your brakes

[GoodysGotaCuda]

do not disengage the clutch and allow the vehicle to coast. Severe damage to your clutch disc may result.

Have any more to elaborate on that one? On how it causes clutch damage?

[CT Rubi]

Have any more to elaborate on that one? On how it causes clutch damage?

Sorry, I posted that right off of the Jeep web site so don't have any additional information.

[GoodysGotaCuda]

Sorry, I posted that right off of the Jeep web site so don't have any additional information.

Must be due to the fact the clutch disc is spinning at the same speed of the rear tires? Depending on what gear you leave it in would affect the speed which the clutch disc is spinning. But i'm not sure that'd hurt anything? In normal driving i may do that quite a bit, approaching lights that may turn green, speeding up/slowing down traffic, etc.

[GoodysGotaCuda]

http://www.markerink.org/WJM/HTML/coasting.htm

Sounds to me this was because he was in 4-low and only in second gear while costing. Had he been in a near matched gear for the speed, i dont think he'd have damaged it. Such as, say my rubicon in 4-low turns 3000rpm at 15mph in 6th gear. If i were to be coasting at 15mph with the clutch disengaged in 1st gear...that clutch disc would be spinning FAST. A rediculous speed, as well as the internals of the trans. Therefore I don't think the problem is as general as "dont coast with the clutch pedal in"...but it should be "dont coast with the clutch in, in a gear you shouldn't be in". Such as a speed for 6th gear and coasting in 2nd.

Thanks for throwing that out there, and is something I'll take note of when driving around in 4-low. With a ton of gear reduction in the rubicon (4:1)...

[wwiifirearms]

Finally....a voice of reason....

I'm amazed how many people throw it in 4lo as soon as they hit the trail. :thinking:

I would recommend getting out there and see what you Jeep will do before you put it in 4lo. You would be amazed where 2wd will get you.

I think there maybe a reason people start in 4Lo. 2wd may get through some stuff, but getting stuck and digging holes messes up the trails for everyone else. There maybe cases like soft sand in which 4 Lo will dig holes, but we don't have much soft sand in Ohio. We do have JeepSkool.com which is partially an old sand quarry and the instructors/trail leaders seem to favor 4 Lo, even in the mud and sand.

I agree with the posts that suggest taking a class, but I think you will find different instructors have different views. My thinking is that if the trail leader is going in 4 Lo, then I am going in 4 Lo. (If he or she gets stuck maybe I'll change my mind :dontknow2: )
-wwiifirearms

[OIIIIO]

I agree with several of the other posts about taking a class or attending a Jeep Jamboree. You learn so much from the guides as well as the other Jeepers. I have a six speed and I wouldn't do trails any other way than 4LO. Crawling over rocks with all that available torque and control is the best. One of the best parts of 4LO I learned on my first Jamboree was "clutchless operation" It really helps in groups (less rolling into the guy in front or behind you).:thumbsup:

[hurstrescue]

I think there maybe a reason people start in 4Lo. 2wd may get through some stuff, but getting stuck and digging holes messes up the trails for everyone else. There maybe cases like soft sand in which 4 Lo will dig holes, but we don't have much soft sand in Ohio. We do have JeepSkool.com which is partially an old sand quarry and the instructors/trail leaders seem to favor 4 Lo, even in the mud and sand.

I agree with the posts that suggest taking a class, but I think you will find different instructors have different views. My thinking is that if the trail leader is going in 4 Lo, then I am going in 4 Lo. (If he or she gets stuck maybe I'll change my mind :dontknow2: )
-wwiifirearms

I'm not saying you have to leave it in 2wd all the time when off road. There is certainly an appropriate time to use the tools your Jeep provides. Obviously if it looks like you need it then use it. My point is I see folks get out there and immediately put it in 4lo, lock both axles, disconnect the sway bar and air down - all before they even see what they are getting into, driving miles like this over easy trails.

[jllaclair]

I went to Rausch Creek (RC) in PA two weeks ago. This was my first time off roading and using 4lo. Used 4hi many times in the snow, but the 4lo was new to me. So Here I am a newbie at RC... kinda nervous about taking my jeep off road and not sure what to do. In the parking lot I met this really nice guy Eddie and hi girlfirend in a Jeep commander stock. He had been 4 wheelin many times before and was very helpful in giving some newbie advice. After we entered the trail he told me to put it in 4lo and stay there and mentioned it is also good for your engine (won't over heat or put stress on it shifting from lo to hi). I have an automatic, so I put it in 4lo 2, on the green trails. on the fire roads I would knock it up to 1 for a bit more speed. LET ME TELL YOU.... green wasn't so green when I first entered the trails... Although I was really impressed with the jeep riding over the rocks and the power from 4 lo, I was quite nervous. I had a really steep decent in which the 4lo helped out slowing the vehicle down.
To get out of 4lo I read the manual (LOL), but it actually says "you may need to turn your engine off, if you cannot shift into 4HI at a 5mph roll. Which I had to turn the engine off and it moved out of 4lo.... still had a little bit of a struggle. (did I mention I wheeled from 9am until 7pm!)
I would like to mention the really weird affect 4 wheelin has on your mind after riding on rocks with low air pressure. I forget the scientific term for it, but after I aired up and drove home, it was a really weird feeling (like I was still on rocks).
Anyway I know i'm new to this off roading thing, but listen to the seasoned guys, they know their stuff!!!
I can't wait to get back to the trails!

[heepenjim]

4lo for me when off road. :thumbsup:

[Weeds]

Taking an off-road course is the best money you can spend. For those in the Northeast there is an excellent one, Overland Experts based in CT. The guy who runs the place is named Bruce and is incredibly knowledgeable.

Actually AIST (Ass In Seat Time) with people who wheel is the best money you can spend. Never been to a offraod school so I really can't tell you much about the curriculum, but I do wheel alot and I have learned by doing, asking alot of question, and basically learning by my own experiences.

4Lo is best to use when you have a solid surface, not good in sand, mud or snow, there is too much torque and the wheels will spin. 4Lo is the best way to descend a steep hill, you don’t touch the break, let the vehicle control the speed for you. Using your breaks can be chancy; if they get overheated you are in trouble.

I find that 4lo minimizes wheel spin as it allows you better throttle control. And as 4lo may not be useful in deep sand and mud, 4lo has gotten me through sand, mud, loose gravel, and sand covered slickrock. Again remember it as much about throttle control as torque.
As far as steep inclines that depends on what the trail is like and what is at the bottom. If it is not to technical and there is a nice run out at the end, use your brakes. Thats what they are there for. And if you are overheating your breaks your doing something wrong. There is no set rule for when to use any of your offroad weapons. That comes with time and experience, and I am always learning. But my avenue of attack on any tarils is 2wd till I need 4wd, 4hi till I need 4lo, 4lo rear locker if need be, and if that doesn't work 4lo front and rear locker. And after I negotiate that obstacle the lockers come off and I decide if going back to 4hi is worth it. But it always is different.

After 40 years of 4 wheeling, running in 2 wheel drive tears up the trails. Many of those years in a flat fender with marginal brakes. The gears are all you had to slow your descent on a hill. This did not have the clutch or the rest of the drive train. You should try to never spin the tires. I use 4 hi on gravel roads to reduce washboarding the road. This also keeps the vehicle under control on the loose surface.

[C_Kyle]

I use it all the time to crawl up and down steep hills and obstacles. 4-lo, in 1st gear is awesome going down super steep and long hills. The Jeep does all the work; all you have to do is steer, and possibly brake a tiny amount if the decline is real long.

I was stationed in El Paso a long time ago; the desert and mountains are pretty cool. The mud out there, when it's there, is so slick; it's not deep, but it's slick like oil.

[jeep 05]

i love 4 low! i use 4 low when i do deep watter fordings to have more controle but when i go mudding i use 4 high to realy sling the mud from my lugs and maintain pull. (not to mention that i love a good coat of mud to show off!:ya:) in FL. theres not any Rock crawling around but we have alot of sand! when in 4 high my engein ran hot running through sand and seemed stresed so i always use 4 low when ill be in sand for a extened period of time. 4 low is also good for pulling your buddies big trucks too and messing with them to get a jeep. lol


___________
2005 unlimited TJ
Deep Watter Blue
2.5 RC Spacer Lift Kit
33-12.5-15R Traildiggers
K&N Cold Air Intake
12" Earthquake Subwoofer
500 Watt Amp
chrome grill,hindges,ect.



I get more smiles per gallon than your gay hybrid could even dream about. :bleh:

[rubious]

me and most all the guys in my club use 4 hi on the "access" roads to the trails (basically dirt roads that easy to drive, and don't offer a obstical) once we hit the trails we switch to 4 lo and stay there till were on a access road again

[Dex1]

Ok, heres another newb question, what about using 4 LO with an auto trans in very soft sand dunes? it takes alot of speed sometimes to get up the larger dunes. so would'nt 4 HI be better with an auto and soft sand??:thinking:

[style_front]

Doesn't matter how slow I go, 4lo grinds. The only time the grinding stops is when the wheels stop spinning. My 4lo is a Beeyoch.

[IMFletch]

Ok, heres another newb question, what about using 4 LO with an auto trans in very soft sand dunes? it takes alot of speed sometimes to get up the larger dunes. so would'nt 4 HI be better with an auto and soft sand??:thinking:

In the sand, I generally run aired down between 12-18psi and in 4 HI with ESP and tracking control disengaged. In the sand you need to maintain some momentum in the soft sand. About the only time I would use 4 Low in the sand is when descending a steep dune, where I want to crawl down without the use of brakes. There maybe some uphill applications when 4 Low might serve you better on a steep 25 degree+ sand incline where 4 Hi will bog down as your speed decreases near the top of the hill. The best way to learn this is to get your Jeep out in the sand, with a buddy vehicle and experiment with 4Hi, Low, ESP and Traction control on/Off and see how it works for you. There are few absolute rules here.

[hulby]

Ok, heres another newb question, what about using 4 LO with an auto trans in very soft sand dunes? it takes alot of speed sometimes to get up the larger dunes. so would'nt 4 HI be better with an auto and soft sand??:thinking:
I do and have done a lot of beach sand driving, to get to a beach campsite and have driven many other beaches and outback sand dunes. I qualify the relevancy of my reply as my JK is CRD auto, different torque and gearbox to the petrol V6. However airing down is vital to:- tread lightly and not churn up the sand (don't abuse you don't lose); stop bogging; to float over at low revs and not dig-in. I often tow in an off road potop caravan. I always use 4L towing the van. I mostly use 4L when not towing as it keeps your speed down and you don't overheat the auto tranny and more cofortable ride for passengers not being bounced about. The big deal to me is the state/type of the sand and how far you're driving, listen to your vehicle, check your tacho. If low tide , recent rain on leadin tracks and and not trafficed/chewed up sure air down slightly and use 4H. I prefer to drive the drier sand to reduce salt water/sand spray. Conversely, high tide, afternoon heat and wind have dried the sand, no moisture binding, chewed up by traffic, use 4L. However 4H can be trap in soft sand, you can excessively overheat the transmission fuid, ruin the fluid, ditto tranny itself. Several 4WD's razed on Stockton beach near Newcastle, including a JK, were attributed to cooking the tranny, not airing down. For me air down, 4L, low revs but keeping momentum with fly-wire throttle = no bogging and safe for occupants and vehicle.

[carnut08]

This is an interesting thread on a topic that a lot of folks that are relatively new to 4 wheeling should understand.

First, a little about my background ... I've been driving 4x4s since I was twelve around the farm and I'm now ... oh 40ish :naw: For the last 5-6 years, I have been a volunteer trail guide for Jeep Jamboree USA and have lead the "newbie" group and this is an issue I see a lot of concern with.

Basically, if you are going to be on a surface off road that you want 4 wheel drive on, and you do not anticipate running continuously above 20 MPH for any length of time, go ahead and shift into 4L. Any other 4wheel drive needs, run in 4H. In the places I wheel in TN, NC, AL, etc., we are mostly on trails and I shift into 4L when I hit the trail head and I shift into 2H when I get back to the trailhead. For a lot of the trails in Moab, I do the same thing. A lot of folks think that 4L is only for slow speed crawling, but it is useful at speeds up to 20 MPH or so. It reduces transmission temps in both auto and manual trannys and prolongs their lives.

Not using 4L does more damage (in general) that using it. For example: last spring, one of my Jamboree participants just refused to shift into 4L except for crossing 2 rocky stream crossings. Everyone else ran 4L from the trail head to the return. I instructed this guy numerous times to run 4L and stay there, but to no avail. Both days, I could smell his clutch complaining and he was having trouble controlling his lurching TJ over small obstacles. On Sunday morning he asked me why his TJ (with 5000 miles on it and just this Jamboree for off road work) was hard to shift and felt "funny" when he accelerated. I explained to him that he had fried his clutch in the two days of trail riding he had been on. Tough lesson to learn, but he just would not listen to me or his fellow jamboree participants.

Sorry for the rant ... but the best rule I can give other than the speed based rule is a paraphrase from sailing: when in doubt, use 4L (in sailing it is "when you think it may be time to reduce sail (reef), you're 30 minutes too late").

A quick read of Mark A. Smith's Guide to Safe, Common-Sense Off-Road Driving available from Jeep Jamboree is a great starting point for folks new to the "sport."

[rant mode off]

Thanks for taking the time to post and explain this! I'm a newbie who really appreciates the reasoning you gave.