Newbie: Offroading with a 6spd?

[07Rubi2dr]

Hey everyone, So I just recently got myself a used 07 rubi 6spd, before this i had a dodge dakota that was an automatic. I took that offroad a bit but it was all easy with a auto. Now i'm looking to start offroading my rubi, but i'm still just getting used to the whole clutch/6spd etc. Basically is there anything i should know about (what to do, what not to do) with a 6spd? how much do you use the clutch etc? i dont want to burn my clutch first time out and stuff...how does the 6spd work in 4hi/lo.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks all!

[dpoelstra]

try not to slip your clutch too much. You will want to on the more difficult obstacles, but put er in 4lo and let her crawl.

You will need to spend some time getting used to the stall point and how to feather the throttle to keep her running. If she stalls, you can start the engine in 4lo with out the clutch which is a really nice feature.

Go to a moderate trail and experiment. You will be suprised at the torque and what this Wrangeler will do, but to ge the most you will need to lear to work the throttle to keep from stalling. Try different things. My jeep has gone places that some said I could not go, and even I was surprised at the relative ease this thing goes where I tell her.

Take a day on the trail to practice and experiment and see what the limits are. Time well spent. Remember, many very experienced Jeepers swear by the manual, while others swear by the auto. Now that you have the manual, learn to love it, and learn to use it.

Good luck!

[07Rubi2dr]

try not to slip your clutch too much. You will want to on the more difficult obstacles, but put er in 4lo and let her crawl.



This is what I'm worried about, at low speeds how do you avoid slipping the clutch? I know in 4lo it will crawl pretty much by itself, but what about in 4hi??

[deanthemachine04]

when you are crawling you shouldnt be in 4 hi anyway. i only use 4 hi on snowy roads or sand dunes. another thing NOT to do is shift while crossing water. you will suck water into the clutch and damage or destroy it. pick the gear you want to use the whole way through b4 entering the water!

[Woods]

Yeah, you don't want to slip the clutch at all. WayOfLife and WayOfLifette taught me this one.

The most difficult situation will be when you are in 4 lo and 1st gear. This would be where you're crawling over rocks. Generally you won't even need to give it gas. Just let the clutch out smoothly and let it crawl. Evey once in a while I find a spot like this that I have to give it gas, but it's surprising what you can roll over without any throttle at all. You'll even be able to hit the brakes hard on the down side of a rock without stalling the motor. Just take your time.

This is MUCH more difficult without the rubi transfer case though.

[wayoflife]

as mentioned, you should NOT be in 4HI if you're crawling on the rocks and you really DON'T need to use your clutch much at all and shouldn't need to especially if you have a rubicon. IF you need to use it, use it in conjunction to your hand brake as i've noted in the "manual on a steep grade" thread:

you need to use your hand brake. even before you start your climb, pull your hand brake a couple of clicks up (or more if necessary) and it will help control your speed while allowing you to give your Jeep more gas. if you end up stalling, do the following:

1. pull your hand brake all the way up.
2. put your transmission in 1st gear
3. hold your hand brake with your right hand, take your foot off the brake and then put it on the gas so that you can begin moving forward - if you start rolling back, the hand brake will help keep it to a minimal and enough so that you can focuse on moving forward.
4. with the hand brake still up, begin accellerating and let off your clutch slowly. when you feel your Jeep start to grab and move forward, slowly let off on the hand brake so that it is syncronized with the movement of your Jeep.
5. once you get going, release the hand brake all together.

it may take some getting used to but it does work and will keep you from burning out your clutch.

in all honestly, after wheeling a manual for a while, you might find it difficult to wheel in anything else. :yup:

[jkkat]

I have an 07 Rubicon down here in Everett, WA which is just above Seatlle and almost never use the clutch off-road in LO range when out wheelin around here. Being your in BC the wheelin is pretty close to here, just be prepaired to start buying skid plates and a winch to get your self from being high centered.

I would be more than willing to meet you at Walker Valley ORV park in Mount Vernon, WA. and go wheeling with ya.

[07Rubi2dr]

as mentioned, you should NOT be in 4HI if you're crawling on the rocks and you really DON'T need to use your clutch much at all and shouldn't need to especially if you have a rubicon. IF you need to use it, use it in conjunction to your hand brake as i've noted in the "manual on a steep grade" thread:



in all honestly, after wheeling a manual for a while, you might find it difficult to wheel in anything else. :yup:

So if I use 4lo for crawling, when do i use 4hi? in mud?

[07Rubi2dr]

I have an 07 Rubicon down here in Everett, WA which is just above Seatlle and almost never use the clutch off-road in LO range when out wheelin around here. Being your in BC the wheelin is pretty close to here, just be prepaired to start buying skid plates and a winch to get your self from being high centered.

I would be more than willing to meet you at Walker Valley ORV park in Mount Vernon, WA. and go wheeling with ya.

Thanks, I might take you up on that after I get more comfortable with my truck, if you are ever up this way let me know.

[SASQUATCH]

in all honestly, after wheeling a manual for a while, you might find it difficult to wheel in anything else. :yup:

:eek2: well theres a first, I've always preferred the manual and probably always will while realizing an auto may be easier I'm just used to the manual at this point. But have not seen many experienced wheelers admit what you just did :thumbsup:

Then again I prefer 3-pedal 1/4 m racing Vs. an auto so it's in my blood I reckon :yup:.

[scouter4life]

I agree, I much prefer the manual, though i'm still trying to get the hang of the 6 speed. I just did the most serious rock crawling to date last weekend and realized i still need to get more practice on it. Keep practicing and you'll get the feel for it.:thumbsup:

[rangleme]

This is MUCH more difficult without the rubi transfer case though.

Could you explain why please?

[07JKX]

the best trick is to bury yourself in a really deep muddy and watery puddle.... and then shift from 1st... to reverse... a bunch of times!
just kidding... this is a big DO NOT

[SASQUATCH]

Could you explain why please?

Rubi transfer cases are 4:1 crawl ratios I believe he's stating, so non-rubi T-cases with a higher gear ratio take a little more finess on the gas and clutch work to prevent stalling up a steep grade, rock, etc. Whereas the Rubi's are a whopping (1)mph (pretty sure) at Wide Open Throttle in 4L 1st gear, so crawling is so much easier, slight gas and your good, very little clutch work needed.

[rangleme]

Rubi transfer cases are 4:1 crawl ratios I believe he's stating, so non-rubi T-cases with a higher gear ratio take a little more finess on the gas and clutch work to prevent stalling up a steep grade, rock, etc. Whereas the Rubi's are a whopping (1)mph (pretty sure) at Wide Open Throttle in 4L 1st gear, so crawling is so much easier, slight gas and your good, very little clutch work needed.

Thanks for explanation, I will have to read it over and over till I understand it. No fault on your part, I'm just still learning :yup:

[Ge99ne]

Could you explain why please?

I'll take this one. (proud x owner here) He's referring to idling over obstacles. The reason why is the lower final drive ration provided by the rubi's transfer case. Multiplies the engines torque more than the 2.73 ration on the x and sahara. So you roll slower, (good in the rocks), and need less gas pedal input to avoid stalling.:ya:

[rangleme]

Now I understand and I went over to my co-worker and he explained it as well like you did. Hmmmm, just means once I get down the whole manual rock crawling thing.....I will rock! :rotflmao2:

[JKsJK]

another thing NOT to do is shift while crossing water. you will suck water into the clutch and damage or destroy it. pick the gear you want to use the whole way through b4 entering the water!

now that's what i'm talking about. :thumbsup: that's why i come here. had no clue. :eek2: i know i've saved thousands of dollars by reading this forum. thanks for the advice.

[07Rubi2dr]

the best trick is to bury yourself in a really deep muddy and watery puddle.... and then shift from 1st... to reverse... a bunch of times!
just kidding... this is a big DO NOT

what happens if you get stuck and need reverse?? also, if i'm only using 4lo for crawling what do i use the 4hi for?

[07JKX]

what happens if you get stuck and need reverse?? also, if i'm only using 4lo for crawling what do i use the 4hi for?

honestly... i have seen people shift to reverse to back up and then go forward to get themselves out... however, ideally, just have someone pull you out... if you choose the former, just check all your fluids afterwards (i do this after each trail ride anyways)

and it depends on the depth of the water/mud hole... if your buried up to or past the doors... just have someone pull you out...if you are stuck and it only halfway up the tires or so... give it hell...

buddy of mine was stuck in some realtively deep stuff and shifted a couple time to get out... gave up, got pulled out, and it would no longer go into gear. was towed off the trail, to the dealer, where he was informed that he would need to invest $1,200.00 for a new clutch

[08Rubicon]

Another thing NOT to do is shift while crossing water. you will suck water into the clutch and damage or destroy it. pick the gear you want to use the whole way through b4 entering the water!

So my question is why, I understand how a clutch works but is it all open under there or is there a short breather tube; how does water make it in there? Also, is there anything that can be modified so that you can clutch it while submerged? - KY

[Gokracer1]

So my question is why, I understand how a clutch works but is it all open under there or is there a short breather tube; how does water make it in there? Also, is there anything that can be modified so that you can clutch it while submerged? - KY

Well I'm sure more people will back me up with some better reasoning or explanation here but... Water gets in everything! There is the boot where the slave or clutch cylinder goes in the trans to engage and disengage the clutch. I know for the most part its pretty tight but water can get in there. And also where your trans bolts to your engine, at the bottom of the two there is about a 1/8 to 1/4 inch gap there. I know if your rear main oil seal ever starts leaking, thats how you know its leaking. Also too for that same reason so oil doesn't puddle up and really saturate your clutch. Thats probably the biggest hole I can think of at the moment without crawling under there and looking.

[yetibear]

Well I'm sure more people will back me up with some better reasoning or explanation here but... Water gets in everything! There is the boot where the slave or clutch cylinder goes in the trans to engage and disengage the clutch. I know for the most part its pretty tight but water can get in there. And also where your trans bolts to your engine, at the bottom of the two there is about a 1/8 to 1/4 inch gap there. I know if your rear main oil seal ever starts leaking, thats how you know its leaking. Also too for that same reason so oil doesn't puddle up and really saturate your clutch. Thats probably the biggest hole I can think of at the moment without crawling under there and looking.

That all sounds reasonable, cost has to factor in also, since the housing doesn't need to keep fluids in there is less reason to make it so it will keep fluids out. And the clutch is a part that is meant to be replaced at a reasonable cost(meant/is are not the same:rotflmao2:), and can require other services, would making it water tight add considerable cost over the life of the vehicle?
I believe they could make it completely watertight, but they have looked at the increase in lifetime costs, and decided that what has worked in the past is good enough. I also believe they could make it better then it is and have just decided that there isn't enough profit potential in it for them to bother.:dontknow2:

[08Rubicon]

Well I'm sure more people will back me up with some better reasoning or explanation here but... Water gets in everything! There is the boot where the slave or clutch cylinder goes in the trans to engage and disengage the clutch. I know for the most part its pretty tight but water can get in there. And also where your trans bolts to your engine, at the bottom of the two there is about a 1/8 to 1/4 inch gap there. I know if your rear main oil seal ever starts leaking, thats how you know its leaking. Also too for that same reason so oil doesn't puddle up and really saturate your clutch. Thats probably the biggest hole I can think of at the moment without crawling under there and looking.

With that being said is there anyway that a large water tight v-clamp or something similar could be fit around the gap to close it off? - KY

[Gokracer1]

With that being said is there anyway that a large water tight v-clamp or something similar could be fit around the gap to close it off? - KY

Well going back on what vetibear said, and also too there is probably more places water can enter. I think the point is stay away from mass amounts water. It can handle some but its not a submarine either ya know. Because if you get your jeep in deep enough water and it goes in the intake ( Thought the air box) you will hydrolock you motor and thats BIG problems there. Just be smart about what you go through is all i can say

[08Rubicon]

Well going back on what vetibear said, and also too there is probably more places water can enter. I think the point is stay away from mass amounts water. It can handle some but its not a submarine either ya know. Because if you get your jeep in deep enough water and it goes in the intake ( Thought the air box) you will hydrolock you motor and thats BIG problems there. Just be smart about what you go through is all i can say

I understand that and it seems that a snorkel would fix that. From what I have gathered the clutch on a 6-speed seems to be the weak point when it comes to water... you can add a snorkel and extended breather tubes but there is nothing out there right now to allow you to shift under water unless you know how to properly shift with out using the clutch. I have no intention of trying to be the first one to drive from the States straight to Europe but it would be nice to mod it to allow me to shift under water. Would it be feasible to machine a spacer (with some gaskets of course) and add it in between the engine and the tranny to close that gap? - KY

[JKJeremy]

i'm far from an expert but it seems like it would be cheaper and easier to just learn how to shift without clutching....i'm not sure however if that still creates the same problem that clutching does and the real issue here is you should just not shift at all while in water....i'd be interested to know from those who know more than i do, but learning to shift without clutching is actually pretty easy once you learn your shift points (for me that seems to be around 1800-2000 rpms depending on the gear)...if that solves the problem without mods then that would be the way to go i would think....:thinking:

[yetibear]

i'm far from an expert but it seems like it would be cheaper and easier to just learn how to shift without clutching....i'm not sure however if that still creates the same problem that clutching does and the real issue here is you should just not shift at all while in water....i'd be interested to know from those who know more than i do, but learning to shift without clutching is actually pretty easy once you learn your shift points (for me that seems to be around 1800-2000 rpms depending on the gear)...if that solves the problem without mods then that would be the way to go i would think....:thinking:

Ok, before I even start, 'floating' the gears is not really good for your transmission, it chips, and rounds off the teeth on the gears. But, I have driven OTR tractor trailers for 30 years, over 3 million miles, 10's if not 100's of million shifts, and I have never lost a transmission. Yet I never really float them in a 'car' type vehicle(kitten protection there:rotflmao2:).

A synchronized trannie doesn't release the gears as easily, you have to be extremely precise (matching rps's and road speed)to get it to slip into the next gear. If you blow the shift it is more likely then not, that you will have to use the clutch to finish the shift.
I am not saying you can't do, there are a goodly amount of people that get away with it all the time. I'm just saying it could damage your trans, it is not the easiest thing to do right every time, and even with a lot of practice, off roading, it could leave you just as stuck as not.
If you go into a deep water crossing, and try to drop a gear, the drag on your Jeep, from the water(not to mention a sandy or muddy bottom) would make it almost impossible for you to match road speed and rpm's. The sweet spot would be so small, and be gone so quickly, unless you were real lucky, you would never be able to catch that shift.
Go into the crossing in the gear that will take you all the way through, that is a bad time to count on your floating skills, or maybe if you do try a clutchless shift, you may need to count on your floating skills.:rotflmao2: You WILL miss the shift, and you will come to a stop, in the water. Best to do it the right way, then try using the easy way that will leave you worse off in the end.


there #1000, earned my big S back!:ya::ya:

[sn4cktime]

I agree, just stick it in 1st a crawl through. If you can't make it in 4H or 4L, you're not gunna make it.

[TEEJ]

For a deeper water crossing, you don't want to go too fast, it creates too much turbulence under the hood...increasing the odds of splashing water up higher than the water line itself, etc.

A speed that maintains a consistent bow wave, so that the under hood water level is a few inches lower than the overall level, w/o splashing, is best.....and throwing a blanket or tarp over the grill/hood area has been know to help in this regard, etc.

Generally, for a manual, try picking a gear that will allow you to stay at that constant speed the whole way through, second gear is often a good choice in 4lo for example....and just do the entire crossing in 2nd in 4 lo...

Power shifting, while doable, is hardly worth it, as if you blow it....you have created the very condition you strove to avoid BY doing it, etc.

Momentum is your friend on a water crossing....so don't shift anyway...slow and steady wins the trans-pond race. :D

If its deep enough, and or the bottom is suspect....hook a front and or rear recovery line up to someone on the opposite shore before starting across....that way, you do not lose the typical 2-3 minutes to have a hook up and start pulling you back out, etc....and 2-3 minutes is often the difference between just your carpet getting wet, and your ass, etc.

:D

[brknmach]

This jeep was my first manual and i love it, after a while jeeping in the manual will become second nature! Good luck!:thumbsup: