Driving on Snow

[Lo2aY]

Hello all

I would like to know how to stay on top of the snow and not digging myself inn.

Would lowering tire pressure help? if so how low..

Also how do you drive as far as speed - momentum goes?

I got stuck once for 8 hours with no service what so ever!

And we had to walk to a town that’s 15 mi away

I really don't want to walk that distance again :bleh:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg241/BLK-RUBI/DSC00363.jpg

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http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg241/BLK-RUBI/DSC00358.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg241/BLK-RUBI/DSC00357.jpg


anything else is welcome

Thanks

[mdantonio]

Hi! I'd strongly encourage you to buy a good pair of snow chains and practice putting them on and removing them. At first glance this sound elemental but when you're stuck in a blizzard or simply deep snow installing chains takes on a whole new challenge. Rear tires are the ones to install them on as they don't inflict odd turning angles and stress on the chains which, if not installed exactly right, will cause them to pop off the tires and create a real headache at a time you generally can least afford one.
15 miles from help can develope into a life threatening situation if an unexpected blizzard developes if you are afoot (as you indicated in your post). Traveling with at least one other off-road capable vehicle is really good advice if this is at all possible.
Good luck with your Jeep and enjoy it as most of us that frequent this forum do! Take care... Mike

[djdingo]

A shovel might have helped out a bit too. Wow, your story is one I'm not going to forget, that had to be miserable!

And the girl in the Jeep looks really pissed off too! :sad2:

[jkkat]

Snow shovel in the winter is a good idea, even a little folding spade type would have helped too, when off road in snow with RubyDoo she goes down to 12 and even 10 would be safe.
CB radio is a good idea as well as a blanket or 2.

[igotstuck]

sounds like one of my first trips out, and I had another jk'r with me! we didnt walk out, butI was ready to go off the deep end by the time we got out.
I got stuck, dug right down to the ice below, around 2 feet of snow, once I hit ice that was it.
so my buddy backs up close enough to hook up a strap and while he's trying to get me out he digs in, so the 2 of us are up to our frames in snow spinning on ice, he managed to get it rocking enough to get out and head for the brush line on the side of the road, drove around on the brush to my side, just about ended up sideways into a tree..... :rollingeyes:
was not a cool trip at all!!! I still havent gotten the scrathes out from that trip, it was drive on the bushes or get stuck again.

so now I have a shovel, high lift and when winter hits again will be carrying a few bags of sand in the back.

[JacksJeep]

Getting unstuck in a situation like your pictures can be done with some knowledge. Let’s presume you do not have a shovel. You do have a jack. Here’s what you can do to get out of the fix you were in. First, walk back down the lane and break off lots of branches from the spruce tree and drag them back to the Jeep. Be sure you are in low range with the lockers engaged. Use the cover from the rear storage as a base and jack up one wheel at a time. Put branches under the wheel with some branches in one direction and some in the other (a hatch pattern). The branches should be under the tire and in front of it. You are making a path. The branches provide traction and bind the snow together. Do this four all four tires if you can. Lower your tire pressure to about 8 lbs. Now with just a light touch on the gas, you should be able to drive out of the ditch onto the flat lane. Once you are out, follow your tracks back to the main road. If you have no way to re-inflate the tires, keep you speed slow so you don’t pop the tire off the wheel. (Oh, and don’t forget to compensate the landowner for his tree!)

[castor07jk]

first off always wheel with at least one other vehical and recover equipment (ie. tow straps, high lift jack, etc). Always air down when wheeling sand, rocks, snow, mud it doesn't matter. Air down before you get stuck, alot of newbies don't want/ or know to air down and end up stuck. Best offroad mod you can do and its cheap.
Doesn't look like you where aired down,oh and your stuck.:bleh:

[sn4cktime]

Getting unstuck in a situation like your pictures can be done with some knowledge. Let’s presume you do not have a shovel. You do have a jack. Here’s what you can do to get out of the fix you were in. First, walk back down the lane and break off lots of branches from the spruce tree and drag them back to the Jeep. Be sure you are in low range with the lockers engaged. Use the cover from the rear storage as a base and jack up one wheel at a time. Put branches under the wheel with some branches in one direction and some in the other (a hatch pattern). The branches should be under the tire and in front of it. You are making a path. The branches provide traction and bind the snow together. Do this four all four tires if you can. Lower your tire pressure to about 8 lbs. Now with just a light touch on the gas, you should be able to drive out of the ditch onto the flat lane. Once you are out, follow your tracks back to the main road. If you have no way to re-inflate the tires, keep you speed slow so you don’t pop the tire off the wheel. (Oh, and don’t forget to compensate the landowner for his tree!)


x2. Get something grippy under those tires are you're normally good to go. This can apply to super thick gloppy mud too. Shovel can be helpful. I know you didn't have one at the time, but I feel the need to throw the word "winch" in there.


Example:
I had the pleasure of spending a night out in the mountains back home in a freezing rain storm with my buddy when we sunk his truck over the diffs. No shovel, but had a high-lift. We could get the front or rear jacked up, but we couldn't scoop the mud out fast enough to tuck enough branches and small logs under the wheels to drive out. The next day we start the walk out and got found by some ATV'ers. Took 5 quads, and the truck literally burning out to shake loose. If he had a winch, we'd a been out in probably an hour or less. If we had a shovel, could've been out in a few.

[jkkat]

The weekend before last, I was out wheelin with our BEST offroad club and I got RubyDoo stuck in a 5 foot snow drift. Tried to winch out and BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the brake assembly went every direction but where it was on the 8274 Warn winch. Had 2 other come back and try winching me with them daisy chained and nothing at all. Got out the high lift and base then jacked up the front and put 8" in diameter logs in the holes then jack her back down and winched out.

[Interstink]

Good thread...
I got stuck in the snow a few years ago, about 30 miles away from the nearest town. I was'nt prepared for getting out of a parking space, much less then 2 feet of snow (I wont go into how I even got stuck.)

I sat thinking for about 20 minutes and remembered something I did back in High-school when I got stuck in a ditch at 3am during a blizzard.

I dug two wide tracks in front of the front tires that would get me to the road (about 20 feet), then lifted my car (BMW X5) with the Jack and put my floor mats under both front and rear tires. Put Car in LOW and creaped my way out. I think the key is to wait a little bit after lowering car on to the floor mats giving them a chance to settle in. (This process took me the better part of 2 Hours while fighting bitter cold and snow). While doing this only one truck passed by and he couldn't see me and I didnt want to chance jumping in front of him on the road.

Im sure there are better ways, but this worked in a jam and saved me from trying to walk 30 miles in the snow looking for a cell signal.

If I learned nothing else... Its best to be preparred and bring a few things if there is a remote possibilty of being stranded. Leave with a FULL tank of gas, blankets, knife, a bottle of water, a lighter, car charger for cell phone, and a carton of smokes (If so inclined)! I also keep some road flares with me on long road trips now. Being seen may help!!!

[Interstink]

BTW... Here is a list of some recommended items. Seems a bit overkill, but if stranded nothing is overkill.

12-foot jumper cables
Four 15-minute roadside flares
Two quarts of oil
Gallon of antifreeze
First aid kit (including an assortment of bandages, gauze, adhesive tape, antiseptic cream, instant ice and heat compresses, scissors and aspirin)
Blanket
Extra fuses
Flashlight and extra batteries
Flat head screwdrivers
Phillips head screwdrivers
Pliers
Vise Grips
Adjustable wrench
Tire inflator (such as a Fix-A-Flat)
Tire pressure gauge
Rags
Roll of paper towels
Roll of duct tape
Spray bottle with washer fluid
Pocketknife
Ice scraper
Pen and paper
Help sign
Granola or energy bars
Bottled water
and heavy-duty nylon bag to carry it all in.

[spyglassjenni]

In my experience in snow stuckage, I have found the most important tool is a strong shovel, a good pair of gloves (for all people in jeep), and a very bright flashlight. Bring these with you at all times... especially since you live in colorado, you never know- it could start snowing in the middle of July

wow... 8hrs? that must have sucked!

[jet fischer]

Here in Montreal we get tons of snow every winter, I always bring a shovel, foldable traction aids, salt, 2 blankets and a warm pair of gloves!!!
A good set of winter tires make a huge difference. I find that the stock Rubi bfg's don't perform very well in snow.

[DeadEye J]

One thing to always be aware of when traveling in snow, is that temperature can make all the difference in the world. Many folks have found they can travel quite readily on a packed snowmobile trail in the freezing morning, only to find themselves stuck in the middle of nowhere once the sun comes out. In 32-40* temps in particular (or less when the sun is shining on the snow) you particularly run the risk of packing the snow into hard ice by driving on it. This will be magnified if you spin the tires.

Low, low tire pressures are the order of the day on any snow trip. If you have large, wide tires you should be looking at 8-10 psi. Yes, that seems terribly low but the more surface area you have in sand or snow the better off you are. Also, there are typically not a lot of trail hazards (rocks, logs, etc) to cause you to lose a tire bead. Mud treads are best for deep snow, while finer treads with as much siping as possible are preferable for snowy roads with hard surfaces underneath.

If you ever feel yourself getting stuck... THINK BEFORE YOU ACT. If you don't bury yourself up to the axles or frames, you can usually get yourself unstuck with some careful planning. Once you hit the frame, it's time for a winch or recovery vehicle. As mentioned before, finding something to put between the tires and the snow (floor mats, ATV loading ramps, storm drain grate, branches, rocks, strong blankets, buddy that owes you a favor, etc) can make a huge difference. They make "ramp" type devices solely for this purpose.

If using another vehicle to pull you out, it is critical that they stay away from you. If your vehicle sunk there, so will theirs. Having several long tow straps available when snow wheeling is a great idea. Be sure the recovery vehicle does not spin their tires, as this will get them stuck or at least polish/pack the snow under them and cause them to lose traction. Use a snatch strap (or several) and a lot of momentum to get it done.

Of course, all of the survival tips above are good advice. You will never over pack for a snow trip. Bring high energy foods, water, warm clothing, blankets, waterproof gloves, waterproof coats, and waterproof boots. Take a good cell phone, and ALWAYS make sure somebody responsible knows EXACTLY where you are going and when you plan to return. Lastly - never, ever, ever go snow wheeling with only one vehicle.

Have fun, be safe.

Jared

[Brad2893]

I think most of these guys have hit it on the head. I also pack a full winter sleeping bag in the back in a compression sack. We get some pretty godawful winters in the mountains and it's good to have. Biggest thing is to prepare well in advance and don't overestimate your capabilities (or your vehicle's).

[Ben]

OP if I am not mistaken from your pics you just pulled over on the side of the road right? That is where wild things can happen I buried my 4x4 chevy trailblazer and trailer in the mud when I tried to turn around in the ditch, took a back hoe to pull me out!

[Josephus]

I'm not clear if the goal was to drive "On" or "In" snow. It actually makes a difference, but here are some of my favorites for the flakey stuff.

1.) Air down a little to start (22 psi for highway) Make wider sweeping turns, so as not to make dual wedges with you front tires.
2.) Air down lower after your stuck (<15 psi) & Lock the axles. If you do not have lockers, try to 'balance' the weight of your vehicle left to right. The lightest uphill wheel will slip and the other will be worthless.
3.) Keep a 4000lb come-along in your Jeep, along with straps and a folding spade (yes they all fit in my storage compartment with the factory jack and other goodies). Bury your spare tire and attach the hook to it.
4.) As soon as you can afford it get any decent winch and a Pull Pal.
5.) If you regularly encounter this much snow, purchase and install the insanely wide Mickey Mouse 33"x15.5" tires and air them down. This will give you much better floatation over the snow (and sand).
6.) If ice is more your problem, there are some Green Brandname tires that have silca in the rubber compound to grip the ice. Studs are great on ice too.
7.) Communications - cell phone, CB, satellite-phone, Short wave HAM radio, flare guns.
8.) An emergency kit with BrandName-ADE drinks, energy bars, backpackers thermal blankets, and a couple of cans of Sterno with a roll of TP.
9.) GPS - a good GPS will navigate within 16 feet of your location (in decent weather) if the roads are pristine snow-pack and you have no idea where the blacktop is - it's really easy to wind up whay off the road and stuck out of view.
10.) Chains, carpet, floormats, clothing, short screws, a bag of cement/sand mix all can be applied at the tires.

Check out the Icelandic rigs and expedition vehicles too.

And my favorite idea for getting un-stuck:
Keep a hot air balloon and propane tank in your Jeep. It won't lift it, but it will make it lighter. He knows it blows when your stuck. :eek2:

Can I get an Amen for the crazy brotha in the Jeep? :ya:

[Rough_Country]

Man snow is something we here in TN know nothing about....well west TN that is. WE might have one snow a year that will accumulate, but that is it. Oh, but when we do get snow it's game on here...doughnut city. ha ha! I can't imagine having to deal with several feet of it tho. It's crazy just to think about.

[pastorsteve]

My suggestion (spending half my time in the high-country) is stay out of the snow. As said above, driving in or on snow is different. If you have to drive in snow as we do annually, know your limitations. Air down, have a winch or come-along, stay on packed/driven snow if possible and don't think that because you have 4x4 that you won't get stuck (you already know this).

Driving on snow doesn't work well because of our mountain powder. If it's deep, you will sink. And never stop. If you are moving - keep moving. If it looks like you may get stuck, turn around or back out. I was up near Rollins Pass this June and at 10,200 feet I hit snow. It was obviously too soft to keep going so I backed out. Getting stuck in the snow, especially off road, can kill you.

[Lo2aY]

I almost forgot about this thread and was about to start a new one

Thank you all for your suggestions and responses

well since the season is back and my jeep is way bigger than what it was.

here is a new questions.

Do I need narrow tires so that it cuts throw the snow? or would wider tires provide better traction, Just like what you see in sand!

I do enjoy getting stuck and trying to figure out what I have to do to get out. but 8 hours is waaaaaaaaaaay to long. So that will hopefully never happen

here is my gear list and my Jeep setup

ARB tree savior strap
ARB snatch block
Teraflex strap
Shovel
2 pairs of gloves
2 flash lights
Aev Jack base

Jeep
4" LA Teraflex
37x13.50x17 MT Baja Claws
stock gears on my D44s
stock drive shafts
Warn Powerplant

would I need to swap my tires out?
It just doesn't make sence to me that I need skinny tires for this matter :thinking:

[pastorsteve]

From my experience in snow - you want the most pounds per square inch on your contact patch for snow. It's not like "floating" sand. My best performing snow tires have always been narrow "snow" tires. You could be fine with all-weather type tires but true snows perform best in snow if you have the luxury of changing out like we all used to do.

[Kachad]

Man, I hear you about that 15 mile hike. Performed one of those myself, but was from going to the axle in soft ground on a MN forest road.

Looks like everyone covered most things, I personally don't think you have to worry about skinny tires. If you have all that equipment, then something like that my help, but won't get you out once you get in.

p.s. Did you retain the significant other in the picture after your walk out?

[castor07jk]

Do I need narrow tires so that it cuts throw the snow? or would wider tires provide better traction, Just like what you see in sand!



Depends no how deep the snow is. If you are driving on snow covered roads the skin tires will be fine. But out on the trail tall and wide is the way to go. Yours should be fine. I would prefer tires with more sipping.

[Northernmedic]

About the tire, wide vs. narrow. This really depends on the type of snow that you have in your area. Light fluffy snow will never permit you to stay on top of it, no matter how wide your tires are. This is where narrow tires will help you, it will allow maximum weight over the contact area. In heavy moist snow, Wider tires with a wide contact patch may help in keeping you "on top". The terrain under the snow also make a really big difference too. If you are expecting ice below the snow, the narrow tires will be helpfull. Dirt on the other hand will be more forgiving with wider tires. What I'm saying is that there is no true answer other than be prepared for the worse, understand the environment you are wheeling, and know the type of snow that you will be encountering. I'm running 12.5" wide tires, I was really shown-up recently by a stock rubi JK going up an ice covered hill. On the other hand most of the guys running 15" wide 40" tires here refuse to take them out during the winter because all they do is slide. Around these parts, the snow is very dry, deep and fluffy. there is no staying on top of it.

[Lo2aY]

Thanks all

Here is what I have in mind :D

Click me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_h72_nY97g) :ya:

[SaginawMike]

BTW... Here is a list of some recommended items. Seems a bit overkill, but if stranded nothing is overkill.

12-foot jumper cables
Four 15-minute roadside flares
Two quarts of oil
Gallon of antifreeze
First aid kit (including an assortment of bandages, gauze, adhesive tape, antiseptic cream, instant ice and heat compresses, scissors and aspirin)
Blanket
Extra fuses
Flashlight and extra batteries
Flat head screwdrivers
Phillips head screwdrivers
Pliers
Vise Grips
Adjustable wrench
Tire inflator (such as a Fix-A-Flat)
Tire pressure gauge
Rags
Roll of paper towels
Roll of duct tape
Spray bottle with washer fluid
Pocketknife
Ice scraper
Pen and paper
Help sign
Granola or energy bars
Bottled water
and heavy-duty nylon bag to carry it all in.
Good list!
I'd like to add matches or lighter and a candle. If your stuck for a while the candle can provide light and keep your fingers from freezing! And if your in the boonies a candle can be very helpfull in starting a signal fire.

If you are on any type of medication you should also keep a few days worth with you.

[pastorsteve]

The question was about tires, and we've pretty much answered that. Additionally winter and snow (expecially while it's still storming) is not the time to test out new vehicles, techniques or environments. If you want to play in the deep stuff, make sure you have plenty of gas, plenty of daylight, lots of time and another vehicle with you. Along with all the stay-warm gear you may need.

Most of the people we have die here in the high-country winters are from out of state. They come here and think that the pretty snow will be fun to hike, climb, go out of bounds in..... and they don't come out. People forget about the altitude and how much more energy it takes to move in all the additional gear. And actually, most people who die in snow are near where they live and just get complacent about the conditions. My advice, in addition to what's been given here is to remember that a snow storm is just as dangerous as a hurricane in the Keys. Stay out of it unless you have be out in it - and if you do be careful. Too many people, especially those not accustomed to real-world sub-zero survival, think that all will be fine. It's frequently not.

For example: to the car or subway jackets, gloves, boots.... won't cut it. You need special equipment and LOTS of experience or you'll lose fingers, toes or worse.

[JeffD]

Not snow, but all the experience reminds me of a recent trip to the Alvord Desert in SW Oregon. We landed on the lake in our airplane. It is mostly hard as asphalt, but one area has a hot springs empty into it.

I saw a Land Rover get buried in the mud and a guy and gal working hard to get it unstuck. They were quite a ways away, so I started to walk to help them. About half way there they are suddenly peeling their clothes off and throwing them under the tires. Believe it or not, it worked. After my jaw lifted off of the desert floor, I turned around and walked back to camp shaking my head.

I have a bunch of buddies that run the snow in the Blue Mountains. To stay on top of the snow, they are generally running big tires, big lifts and low pressure. Depending on snow conditions, they take turns busting along until someone finds the soft spot and drops in, then the others keep going around him, then pull him out and now he is at the end of the line.

I carry chains in the winter, and a shovel. Would love a winch, but that won't happen for a while. Lowering the pressure to 10-15 works the same on snow as it does sand, and when I lived on the coast, I helped liberate many flatlanders from the incoming tide when they got their big trucks buried on the beach. I would just drop the pressure and they would just drive out. Won't always work on snow, but that is where I start when stuck.

[Jon Brock]

Best Winter un-stuck tool is a good ol' floor mat!

Wedge it uder the tire, spikes down and drive out! Sometimes put 2 down.....

It has always worked for me...in big and little vehicles

[john smack]

I never thought about throwing some cloths under the tires.. I will have to bring a bunch of chicks wheeling at all times:yup:

[wanabxtrm]

So we just bought a new 4 dr ruby last weekend to eventually replace my 98 XJ once (if ever) the thing dies (but at 230K shes still going strong).

In any case I was reading through the owners manual and it says that chains aren't recommended due to clearance issues on the rear wheels. I was curious if:

1- anyone has put some on to see just how "inadequate" the clearance is & did you have any issues

2- any recommended styles on chains?

I figure I'll be buying them regardless of clearance cause when needed, they'll be needed, then promptly removed.

My chains for my XJ are standard old ladder chains, but have seen some nifty patterns on some other guys up in the mountains, and was curious if anyone had an easier to install, but good design to recommend.

The only thing I'd add to what everyone else has mentioned is having an axe or ice axe to a-brake up ice b- cutt wood/bows/etc when you're in a jam.

[wanabxtrm]

Oh and how does the 4 dr compare to cherokees in the snow? It'll be at least a month till I can find out for myself...

[pastorsteve]

Great list!!! I would add a big bottle of wiskey just in case the rest fails and your gonna die for sure... might make those last few cold hours a little warmer + its a bonus if the cops stop by!!! :bleh:

Seriously though - that is a good list but would add a tire plug kit and a compressor (I keep a scuba tank onboard for airing tires)

That's great, but as a diver, scuba tanks are not really safe to keep in a vehicle and a compressor is about 1/5th the size and weight of a tank.... and a lot cheaper.

[Yamaha90]

That's great, but as a diver, scuba tanks are not really safe to keep in a vehicle and a compressor is about 1/5th the size and weight of a tank.... and a lot cheaper.

lol i'm gona go get a scuba tank, i have a small compresser that i often use to air up trailer tires and stuff so i know they come in handy. i usually carry the ice scraper and some bottles of water but i will probably throw a blanket or two in the back, for those just in case moments where i venture out in the snow to have fun and the worst should happen, good list btw!

[john smack]

and a cheap bit of insurance is a package of candles, it sound inadiquate but the small amount of heat works great

[Geezle]

lol i'm gona go get a scuba tank, i have a small compresser that i often use to air up trailer tires and stuff so i know they come in handy. i usually carry the ice scraper and some bottles of water but i will probably throw a blanket or two in the back, for those just in case moments where i venture out in the snow to have fun and the worst should happen, good list btw!

I don't know how much a scuba tank is worth, but I'm guessing a portable air tank that's designed more for this sort of situation would probably be a cheaper alternative? :dontknow2:

[pastorsteve]

No. All alum. or steel tanks are the same. It's more of a safety issue then value per pound issue. A $40-100 portable inflator that weights a couple of pounds is never out of air and weighs far less. Not to mention the valuable space inside a JK.

But the last thing you want is an air tank lose inside a vehicle in an accident. When transporting scuba equipment in a vehicle, we never do so farther or faster than necessary for a dive. They are too dangerous.