Proper Manual Techniques

[dburgette]

I know there is a lot of info already posted, but I have some specific questions that I hope to get answered. There is no better place than all the experience on this site. Thanks in advance to any help offered!

I think the general consensus is to put it in 4Lo and Never ride the clutch. With that said, because I have smoked the clutch a little too much recently...

(All questions are trail riding questions)
What is the proper driving technique when going up a steep grade then a small flat that directly goes into another steep grade?
Do I stay off the clutch and let it roll with a small amount of gas, if needed?

If I am traveling over a cluster small quick hills where there are ruts between each hill, do I put my foot on the brake and let off just before she stalls?
I tried this, but I continued to stall time after time.

Last Question:
If I was going down a steep grade, should I be in 4Lo covering the brake, or can I be in neutral?
For some reason, I was under the impression it wasn't the best idea to be in neutral going down off an obstacle or hill.


I am aware that 4Lo is very forgiving when it comes to stalling.

Any help will be appreciated, and thanks again!:dontknow2:

[SiliconTi]

All the pros say to never use the clutch, not even to start the Jeep, or to put it in reverse. A Jeep in 4-Lo can be started without the clutch (the interlock is defeated). To reverse, shut it off, put it into reverse and restart it without using the clutch (while it is running, OK to use to move shift lever).

[muddpuppy01]

What is the proper driving technique when going up a steep grade then a small flat that directly goes into another steep grade?
Do I stay off the clutch and let it roll with a small amount of gas, if needed?

correct I just little bit of gas pedal on the flat section until the next hill comes up if the section is rather long I shift to a different gear then back to the desired ear for the hill when it comes up

If I am traveling over a cluster small quick hills where there are ruts between each hill, do I put my foot on the brake and let off just before she stalls?
I tried this, but I continued to stall time after time.

when I travel over ruts I am off and on the gas allowing the engine to brake me

Last Question:
If I was going down a steep grade, should I be in 4Lo covering the brake, or can I be in neutral?
For some reason, I was under the impression it wasn't the best idea to be in neutral going down off an obstacle or hill.

in 4lo and first gear your jk will use the engine to assist you in going down hill with braking if you fell you are going to fast depending on the hill you can cover the brake with your foot and ease the brake pedal ( not applying as normal ) to act as you where to just creep from a stand still with a auto as a reference

[shredX]

I'm a fan of staying in 4lo first or second gear when decending hills. If you think you need to brake, keep it in first. I almost never have to brake regardless when I'm in 4lo first gear.

[Warlock13]

So even just to start the jeep you say to throw into 4lo and start it and then shift out?

[muddpuppy01]

you can start the jk in 4lo in 1 gear depending on where you want to go and the ground you are on yes shift to another gear

I dont recommend trying to start with the clutch in a mud hole don think the starter got that much power

[Seryoga]

What is the proper driving technique when going up a steep grade then a small flat that directly goes into another steep grade?
Do I stay off the clutch and let it roll with a small amount of gas, if needed?

When going up a steep grade, i have the TC in 4LOW, put the tranny in 2nd gear (in 4low you can start rolling in 2nd gear), and give it some go-go pedal up to about 4000rpm. Dont get off the gas pedal until you reached the top, as soon as your front wheels roll over, let of gas and slowly pull over the hill.

Also just an FYI, if you are not rock crawling you dont have to start in 1st gear, while your TC is in 4Low. Just put it in second and slowly let the clutch out, you dont even need to push on a gas pedal.

If I am traveling over a cluster small quick hills where there are ruts between each hill, do I put my foot on the brake and let off just before she stalls?
I tried this, but I continued to stall time after time.

I usually just go slow in 1st or 2nd gear, and if i need to slow down, I just push the clutch pedal.

If I was going down a steep grade, should I be in 4Lo covering the brake, or can I be in neutral?
For some reason, I was under the impression it wasn't the best idea to be in neutral going down off an obstacle or hill.

When going down a steep grade, just switch the TC in 4Low, put the tranny in 1st gear and slowly let the clutch out. The engine will brake for you, and if you feel its speeding up, just assist a little with brake pedal.


All the pros say to never use the clutch, not even to start the Jeep, or to put it in reverse. A Jeep in 4-Lo can be started without the clutch (the interlock is defeated). To reverse, shut it off, put it into reverse and restart it without using the clutch (while it is running, OK to use to move shift lever).

Yes the Jeep can be started while in 4low 1st gear, but i would not recommend starting it if the water is up to your rocker panels. I personally had to get my starter replaced because it was shorted out.

The 4low 1st gear start feature was intended for ROCK CRAWLING, not mudding in water holes. That way when you stall while climbing the rock, you just leave it in 1st gear, start it, and keep going over the rock without rolling back down and off of it.

[dburgette]

You know, I have owned a manual for about 15 years (Mustang), but I never knew all the different aspects of driving a manual off-road. I love driving a manual, but I think it will take a lot of practice to really become comfortable with all the tips. Thanks so much for any and all advice!;)

So from what I have heard, you should almost never touch the clutch? Should I shut the engine off when I want to get out and take a picture or stop for a moment on a trail?:thinking:

[Seryoga]

Well you need to touch the clutch when switching gears.

And you dont really have to shut the engine off if taking a picture. I usually keep mine running, unless i've stopped on a hill, and since my e-brake doesn't work, i have to leave it in gear.

[07Rubi2dr]

mmm I kinda have a similar question relating to this, it may seem very newbieish, but thats what I am! I was offroad and put the TC in 4lo and started climbing up a rockface. When i wanted to stop to turn the wheels I tried putting my foot on the brake to stop it, but it wouldnt stop, it was like the 4lo was fighting against the brake and not letting me stop. The only way I could bring it to a stop was putting in the clutch......is this the right way? or am I doing something wrong?? Thanks all

[Jordo89]

mmm I kinda have a similar question relating to this, it may seem very newbieish, but thats what I am! I was offroad and put the TC in 4lo and started climbing up a rockface. When i wanted to stop to turn the wheels I tried putting my foot on the brake to stop it, but it wouldnt stop, it was like the 4lo was fighting against the brake and not letting me stop. The only way I could bring it to a stop was putting in the clutch......is this the right way? or am I doing something wrong?? Thanks all

you'll have to press the clutch to stop (or turn off the engine). period. 2hi, 4hi, 4lo whatever... leave it in gear and press the brakes all you want it will fight against the brakes until the engine stalls. so if you do manage to get it stopped without pushing the clutch in, make sure to turn the engine back on before you start trying to go again.

i don't really understand all of this hating on the clutch pedal... i think it's a much better instinct in a hairy situation to go for the clutch than the brake. i for one know i've been in a few situations where i had two options:

press the clutch, disconnect power from the wheels and start to roll backwards off of the obstacle

or

press the brakes and risk shifting the weight of the jeep violently possibly sending me rolling (not on the tires) down a hill.

granted neither option is really ideal, i'll stick to the clutch.

[whpony96]

All the pros say to never use the clutch, not even to start the Jeep, or to put it in reverse. A Jeep in 4-Lo can be started without the clutch (the interlock is defeated). To reverse, shut it off, put it into reverse and restart it without using the clutch (while it is running, OK to use to move shift lever).

One problem here you will burn out the starter really fast this way. Then you will be stranded. Not the best Idea.

[Seryoga]

you'll have to press the clutch to stop (or turn off the engine). period. 2hi, 4hi, 4lo whatever...

i don't really understand all of this hating on the clutch pedal... i think it's a much better instinct in a hairy situation to go for the clutch than the brake.

Agree, i'd rather press my clutch, then burn it, and stall your engine.

BTW i've heard that its not healthy for the engine when it stalls.

[goldtr8]

Now I have never wheeled out west but I have a clutch in Rubi and since I have driven manuel trans cars, trucks and even big rigs, it is second nature to me.

What I have done in my Rubi so far I would not considerr haveing an automatic. Being able to crawl and just tip in the clutch with giving the vehilce no gas is easy as can be. Going down steep grades in a low gear is a piece of cake, I can not imagine an auto holding this well.

With the rubi case in low you can have the hand brake on and let out the clutch and the jeep moves and you can then release it.

I would never give up my stick unless it was a mall crawler for my wife then it woudl be an auto but then it would be a Serarra also cause then the painted fenders would be ok cause they would never get scrateched cause they would never see a trail. :sad2:

[noot]

All the pros say to never use the clutch, not even to start the Jeep, or to put it in reverse. A Jeep in 4-Lo can be started without the clutch (the interlock is defeated). To reverse, shut it off, put it into reverse and restart it without using the clutch (while it is running, OK to use to move shift lever).

I don't understand why using the clutch is a bad idea. In water, yes, bad. Otherwise.... what's the reason?

When I'm in 4Lo, I often take off in any gear from 2nd to 5th, almost as I would in 4Hi and 1st. I don't need to ride the clutch to do it (rubi TC).

I find that starting in 4Lo and 1st results in a jumpy start... it kinda lurches. I'd much rather keep my right foot on the brake, left foot slowly letting out the clutch in 4Lo + 1st... much more controlled, IMO.

[blkpearl]

i have found when crawling, starting the jk in 4low is very helpful gets ya rolling, pretty easy...i have also used the clutch...but it all depends on what type of trail you are on....super steep and trying to press clutch, hold brake and a little gas sometime makes for a fun ride.....not...as the jeep rolls back, and hopefully your fast enough and dont mess up, and loose forward progress, and wheel traction causing to roll over.....but i guess thats the risk, if you want to play got to pay.....i hate paying cause i get to hear the phrase "I told ya so",

i use both styles, trail dep, :thumbsup:

[bofer84]

HAHA...old men, yall just arent fast enough to keep up with us younger boys in the foot/clutch department :)

In all seriousness though. I use my clutch all the time..thats what its there for. Its like an art. You have to learn to feather it and know how to use the breaks at the right moments. You have to teach yourself...yes, teach yourself, to rely on the engine compression when coming down off of a rock or in certain situations etc...but all this stuff about hand breaking, etc...is crazy.

and x2 for not wanting to ever give up my stick for an auto.

[SiliconTi]

I think the real point is to not burn out or damage the clutch by excessive slippage. The clutch should be in or out, not in between being used as a "throttle".

[yetibear]

Now I have never wheeled out west but I have a clutch in Rubi and since I have driven manuel trans cars, trucks and even big rigs, it is second nature to me.

What I have done in my Rubi so far I would not considerr haveing an automatic. Being able to crawl and just tip in the clutch with giving the vehilce no gas is easy as can be. Going down steep grades in a low gear is a piece of cake, I can not imagine an auto holding this well.

With the rubi case in low you can have the hand brake on and let out the clutch and the jeep moves and you can then release it.

I would never give up my stick unless it was a mall crawler for my wife then it woudl be an auto but then it would be a Serarra also cause then the painted fenders would be ok cause they would never get scrateched cause they would never see a trail. :sad2:

Your knowledge and skill with a manual awes me. I am so inspired I think I'll have to replace my auto.:thinking:

By the way, it is a 'Sahara'.:dontknow2: But we can't be perfect in every way, now can we?:what?:

:rotflmao2::rotflmao2::rotflmao2:

[dburgette]

Let's keep it friendly and get back to the questions...please!

[DOCSMITH1504]

ok so I got it. use the clutch to only shift gears and not as a throttle. my question is what range do you shift in while in 4lo? Do I do it at a higher rpm or at around 3000 like I do in 2hi and 4hi? I've wheeled in both 4hi and 4lo and thought that 4lo was only to get out of sticky situations but I guess not

[Seryoga]

ok so I got it. use the clutch to only shift gears and not as a throttle. my question is what range do you shift in while in 4lo? Do I do it at a higher rpm or at around 3000 like I do in 2hi and 4hi? I've wheeled in both 4hi and 4lo and thought that 4lo was only to get out of sticky situations but I guess not

Here is the deal, everyone has their own technique on driving/shifting in 4low. Here is mine, so far it worked great for me.

If the mud hole looks serious (like its filled with peanut butter), i just stop in front of it, and go in 1st gear all the way through. Keeping the RPMs under 4000.

If it moderate, then just start rolling in 2nd gear, and go through it. If at any time in 2nd gear you feel like your RPMs are dropping fast and you are about to stall (you are pretty much screwed), hit the clutch pop it into neutral and let the clutch out fast, before you start sucking mud into your throw out bearing through the bellhousing ventilation openings. I said it before, i'll say it again, you do not want to get stalled while in water up to your rocker panels, if you stall and start under water, your starter will go bye bye on you. Now you have to work fast, and put it in either 1st gear or reverse, and try it again, This time in 1st all the way through.

If you are driving in 4low (i hate switching from 4low to 4hi and then to 4low every 30 seconds). Just start driving in 2nd gear, when you get to 2500-3000RPM, switch to 4th, then to 6th gear. In 4low, and again this is how i drive, i usually dont go over 15-20MPH. You want to go faster, stop and switch your TC into 4hi.

[bofer84]

I personally, would never enter a mud hole in 1st or 2nd in low range. I have a ruby, so maybe your talking about the other transfer case, but with the 4:1 its simply to low of a gear. 3rd or 4th is just about right. Still sorta hard to stall, yet enough wheel spin to clear the wheels :)

[Seryoga]

I personally, would never enter a mud hole in 1st or 2nd in low range. I have a ruby, so maybe your talking about the other transfer case, but with the 4:1 its simply to low of a gear. 3rd or 4th is just about right. Still sorta hard to stall, yet enough wheel spin to clear the wheels :)

3rd or 4th in thick mud? I'd love to see it.

Here is a video of my friend going through some thick shit, all in 4low 1st gear.

IMHO, you dont need to spin the wheels fast in order to get through mud. I saw one guy trying to go through mud in 4hi, his wheels were spinning fast (his speedo showed 90mph), yet it didnt get him through it. And i cleared the same mud pit going 4low 1st gear @ 3000RPM.

It also depends on tires, if tires have big treads, they will just throw the mud out from under your tires and get you bottomed out pretty fast.

[Jordo89]

Yes, but 4-lo firs gear in an x/sahara is about the same as 4th or maybe 3rd ina rubi...its a 4:1 transfer case as opposed to the 2.73:1 (is that it?)

it's 2.72:1.... so you were very close haha. and personally if i dropped in a mudhole and wasnt going anywhere i'd cut the engine and take a strap. no point ruining your clutch (very expensive and labor intensive to replace) or your starter (still expensive but a little easier to replace) just because you wanted to be a big man and spin the tires as though you're going anywhere. admit defeat and save your jeep. mud blows... i avoid it like the plague.

[07Rubi2dr]

so if in a situation like this guy:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7_PUKQjnJQ

he does the right thing by just keeping the wheels spinning? If you do stall while in mud/water what the hell are you supposed to to with a 6spd? just let it stall and get pulled out? instead of messing with the clutch?

[JeepJK4Life]

ok well now im pissed because i think i may have used my clutch once on accident because i got to this thread too late, what would happen if you did shift?

[dburgette]

This happened yesterday:

I was climbing up a steep hill, and I mean steep, and as I was climbing the Jeep started to slow and eventually stall (I was in 4lo in 1st gear).

What should you do to keep from rolling backwards down the hill? How should you try to get yourself out of the situation?

I eventually made it up after 3 or 4 times. I figured out I needed more speed to get over the loose rock section in the middle of the incline. But what do you recommend if you stall on an incline?

[rballman]

In deep water you don't want to engage the clutch or you may risk sucking the water/mud into the clutch. Let it die, or step on the brakes to kill it. Once it is off, put it in 4LO 1st so if you have to restart it it will start up without engaging the clutch... especially useful if you are winching yourself out with a hydraulic winch.

The rule of thumb is.. don't engage your clutch in the deep stuff... but ya gotta do what you gotta do to get out... every situation isn't the same.

So when you kill the engine with the brakes and then switch to 4LO 1st...do you do this all without touching the clutch?

Also, when you start your jeep while in deep water...wont the engine suck up water thru the tailpipe etc? ...or is this a myth?

...and what is considered "deep" water? ...when it is up to the bottom of your door?

[Seryoga]

Once you stop making forward progress.. you are pretty much done... shut her down.

Hmm, i will have to disagree on the shut down part. If you are in water thats a very bad idea (unless water is over your hood), water will fill up quickly through your exhaust. Also if you have a winch, you will not be able to use it since with engine off it will kill your battery is a matter of seconds.

In deep water you don't want to engage the clutch or you may risk sucking the water/mud into the clutch. Let it die, or step on the brakes to kill it. Once it is off, put it in 4LO 1st so if you have to restart it it will start up without engaging the clutch... especially useful if you are winching yourself out with a hydraulic winch.

I've said it before, and i'll say it again. If the water is up to your bumper, and you try to start it, IT WILL SHORT OUT YOUR STARTER. Happened to me, so i'm talking from personal experience.

The rule of thumb is.. don't engage your clutch in the deep stuff... but ya gotta do what you gotta do to get out... every situation isn't the same.

If you are stuck in deep stuff, just let the engine slow down to like 1500 rpm, then QUICKLY push the clutch, get out of the gear, and release the clutch. But you have to do it fast. And let someone yank you out.


ok well now im pissed because i think i may have used my clutch once on accident because i got to this thread too late, what would happen if you did shift?

If you were able to get out, and drive home without problems, then nothing happened.

I got stuck in some sticky stuff once, and had to wait for 40 minutes for my friends to go all the way around to pull me out. All that time i kept trying to rock back and forth, and only after 30 minutes my clutch gave up on me. Well it wasn't exactly a clutch it was throw out bearing that got packed with sand and got stuck in disengaged position.

So if you do it once or twice while stuck, nothing at all should happen if you do it quick.


This happened yesterday:

I was climbing up a steep hill, and I mean steep, and as I was climbing the Jeep started to slow and eventually stall (I was in 4lo in 1st gear).

What should you do to keep from rolling backwards down the hill? How should you try to get yourself out of the situation?

I eventually made it up after 3 or 4 times. I figured out I needed more speed to get over the loose rock section in the middle of the incline. But what do you recommend if you stall on an incline?

If its very steep, you need more speed, so next time try climbing it in 4low 2nd gear. I would also recommend first finding out whats at the top of that hill, so you'll know what to do when you get to the top.

There is nothing you can do to keep from rolling backwards.

Here is a few videos of me climbing a steep hill. The first one is my friend in a TJ, and then me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPyjAZhWoYw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoVH1BIEkkE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z73BduZSbA


So when you kill the engine with the brakes and then switch to 4LO 1st...do you do this all without touching the clutch?

Yes, but you risk of shorting out your starter motor, if in very deep water.

Also, when you start your jeep while in deep water...wont the engine suck up water thru the tailpipe etc? ...or is this a myth?

As far as i know its all true.

...and what is considered "deep" water? ...when it is up to the bottom of your door?

Its deep water if its over your roof :rotflmao2:

[WranglerDan]

This happened yesterday:

I was climbing up a steep hill, and I mean steep, and as I was climbing the Jeep started to slow and eventually stall (I was in 4lo in 1st gear).

What should you do to keep from rolling backwards down the hill? How should you try to get yourself out of the situation?

I eventually made it up after 3 or 4 times. I figured out I needed more speed to get over the loose rock section in the middle of the incline. But what do you recommend if you stall on an incline?

Stall recovery technique:

Let the Jeep stall in gear without pressing the clutch.
Put your foot firmly on the brake and apply the park brake too.
Shift the Jeep to reverse gear (TC stays in 4Lo).
Put your feet flat on the floor or under the pedals: No throttle/ brake or clutch.
Ensuring your front wheels are straight.
Turn on the ignition and start the Jeep in reverse gear.
Let in idle with engine braking straight back down the hill.

It takes practise and feels counter-intuitive at first not to press the clutch and try to prevent the stall. It becomes smooth and safe after a couple of goes.