Synthetic Winch Line

[Desert Fox]

Has anyone researched synthetic winch lines? I am considering shifting to synthetic for reasons of weight. A 100' steel line weighs about 35 lbs and a synthetic line around 10 lbs. I went to three catalogs for estimates and came away somewhat confused. I checked out the Warn , Quadratec and 4 Wheel Parts catalogs. There is a big price spread for the same spec'ed line,
100' of 3/8ths inch line:
- Quadratec: AmSteel Blue. 18,400 lb test. $230. Add $50 for a hook and
$40 for a fair-lead. Plus shipping/handling
- 4 Wheel Parts: Offers the AmSteel Blue for about the same price. They also carry Master Pull for $357 plus accessories.
- Warn: House brand for $650, which includes the hook and fair-lead plus free shipping. BUT their line has a 9,500 lb test limit.

Has anyone shifted to synthetic? How did you make your choice? :thinking:

[RotorHead]

Call Dave at Northridge. He'll hook you up. I can't remember what I paid, but it was cheaper than anywhere else. I got mine with that fancy thimble on the end. I love it.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x164/SeminoleMike/Red%20Rock%20Fab/P5200086.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x164/SeminoleMike/Jeep%20Pictures/Tellico%20August%202008/SANY0886.jpg

[putnam dan]

Call Dave at Northridge. He'll hook you up. I can't remember what I paid, but it was cheaper than anywhere else. I got mine with that fancy thimble on the end. I love it.



which line is that? I'm looking to replace mine and heck I might as well go synthetic in my old age

[RotorHead]

I'm pretty sure it's Viking. They are the only ones that do the thimble, I think. The thimble is awesome. You just winch it tight. There's really no need for an open hook. Most of the time you would use a D ring on a tree saver anyway.

Just call Dave. He'll know. He also talked me into getting black and I'm glad I did. It looks great and when it fades, it should look better than the other colors.

[sandiasnow]

I bought mine from Winchline.com


http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm259/sandiasnow/2008%20Rubicon/SuperWinchandSeatCovers003.jpg

[guinness]

Deff. go w/ synthetic. Other than the warn which is boucoup dollars alot are very comprable and alot of the cost depends on end loop and hook options.
Ive had amsteel blue and mastercraft before. Im currently running a setup similar to rotorhead. They have all been totally reliable, and strong as hell.
Ive never had a prob. w/ synth lines but i would spend a little extra on wraps/guards to protect them from abrassion. Remember they are alot stronger than alot of wire ropes but they are still fragile by comparison. That extra $20-50 might save you alot of $ in the long run.

[RipperMan]

Check out rockstomper . com - good pricing-just call and tell them what you want...

[sandman]

Also have a look see at trsfabandonoffroad.com I found their prices pretty good.

[Desert Fox]

Folks,

Thanks for all the input. I will start checking these vendors out tomorrow.

[benmar2000]

Deff. go w/ synthetic. Other than the warn which is boucoup dollars alot are very comprable and alot of the cost depends on end loop and hook options.
Ive had amsteel blue and mastercraft before. Im currently running a setup similar to rotorhead. They have all been totally reliable, and strong as hell.
Ive never had a prob. w/ synth lines but i would spend a little extra on wraps/guards to protect them from abrassion. Remember they are alot stronger than alot of wire ropes but they are still fragile by comparison. That extra $20-50 might save you alot of $ in the long run.

I agree about the wraps/guards.. I am running synthetic from winchline.. Never had a problem.. :D :thumbsup:

[RedneckJeep]

Call Dave at Northridge. He'll hook you up. I can't remember what I paid, but it was cheaper than anywhere else. I got mine with that fancy thimble on the end. I love it.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x164/SeminoleMike/Red%20Rock%20Fab/P5200086.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x164/SeminoleMike/Jeep%20Pictures/Tellico%20August%202008/SANY0886.jpg

That's a nice lookin rig you got. I like the winch and line setup too. :thumbsup:

[Woods]

I've just researched synthetic winch lines, because I will soon offer them for sale. I recently picked up the Ramsey winch line and I want to offer a synthetic option. The Ramsey option is about $550 and I want to offer a better value.

RJ, I agree with you 100% about the weight. I think that weight, as a factor of Jeepin, is generally under rated. The other major benefit to Synthetics, are the safety factor. When a steel line breaks, it can produce a major back-lash. The steel acts as a spring, and a heavy dangerous one at that. Synthetics don't spring much and there isn't nearly the same weight involved. Synthetics tend to "lay down".

There are several synthetics to consider. Dyneema, Spectre, Tehcnora, Plasma, Kevlar... All of these fibers are strong, so strength is not a differentiating factor, when deciding if a fiber is good for winching. UV protection is a major concern for synthetic rope. Make certain that the rope has a high quality UV inhibitor.

Technora: The story that I heard years ago, is that Technora was developed for as conveyor belts material in Japan. If you think about the use of conveyor belts, the same requirements apply to winch rop. Abrasion resistance, UV stability, how well it deals with heat and how well it goes over rollers. The down side of Technora is that it's expensive. BTW, the synthetic rope that Ramsey offers is Technora.

I've chosen to offer Technora as my winch rope. Dyneema and Spectra (both less expensive than Technora) are offered by many companies and shares a lot of the benefits of Technora, with the exception of one. They do not handle heat well and Technora does. I didn't consider heat much of an issue initially, but as it turns out, it's a very important factor. Rope, as is coils around the winch drum, creates heat and a lot of it. Dyneema and Spectra have relatively low melting points :eek2:. Technora has a working temp up around 900 degrees.

I haven't yet offered winch rope for sale, because I'm waiting for my bumper to be released. If folks start to express interest in the line only, then I'll make it available sooner. The rope configuration will be:
3/8" Technora
10' Chafe guard
Stainless steel thimble at the hook end, spliced with a mil spec eye splice.

I'm looking for feedback about what rope length to offer. I'm strongly considering an 80' length. This is a little smaller than the standard 95' or 100', but I think it offers the best value. Not only does is cut some of the cost, but it also gets your line closer to the drum, for more pulling power. The price will be $259 plus shipping, which seems to about the same price as most offer Dyneema winch ropes for. So this should be a very good price.

I'm also looking for feedback about color. I like the look of the dark grey rope (it turns to an olive drab color), but I think that yellow or orange may make sense in regards to safety.

[easttnruby]

II'm looking for feedback about what rope length to offer. I'm strongly considering an 80' length. This is a little smaller than the standard 95' or 100', but I think it offers the best value. Not only does is cut some of the cost, but it also gets your line closer to the drum, for more pulling power. The price will be $259 plus shipping, which seems to about the same price as most offer Dyneema winch ropes for. So this should be a very good price.

I'm also looking for feedback about color. I like the look of the dark grey rope (it turns to an olive drab color), but I think that yellow or orange may make sense in regards to safety.

I would def order yellow:thumbsup: I would also prefer 100'. I know even with 100' I have cut it close on length a few times.

[Northridge4x4]

The Viking synthetic Winch Line is some of the highest quality we have ran. With over 4 years on the same line and numerous pulls I have yet to have any faiures due to heat or abrasion.

The black line that you see there is what we run on all of our vehicles and is the same line wayolife has been running for a few years without any trouble at all.

The Viking Product has gone up in price alot in the last three months but we have a few left at the old price. If you are looking for a line like rotorhead has give us a call and we will can offer that to you for 275 shipped .


Thanks
David

[wayoflife]

The Viking synthetic Winch Line is some of the highest quality we have ran. With over 4 years on the same line and numerous pulls I have yet to have any faiures due to heat or abrasion.

The black line that you see there is what we run on all of our vehicles and is the same line wayolife has been running for a few years without any trouble at all.

The Viking Product has gone up in price alot in the last three months but we have a few left at the old price. If you are looking for a line like rotorhead has give us a call and we will can offer that to you for 275 shipped .


Thanks
David

yup, this is what i've been running for a few years now and would never run anything else. they are light, they float and they are safe. for those who have been wheeling with me, they know how many times i've used mine and under extreme conditions and mine has held up well. :yup:

[RedneckJeep]

Just curious about a few more things....and thanks David and WOL for responding......How are the synth lines for rot from getting wet and drying out over and over in the long term? Also, what is this "thimble thing" all about? Lastly, if I change to a synth line, do I have to run a Hawse fairlead? Thanks.

[Northridge4x4]

I believe this line is originally made for the boating industry so it should be fine. I have had my line on for 4 years uncovered in the washington rain with zero problems. The thimbles are really a personal preferance .

David

[JKDoc]

No rot problem with water or dirt although all lines should be kept clean no matter what they are made of. The big problem with synthetics is UV degradation of fibers, sensitivity to heat damage (melting), and poorer abrasion resistance than steel. I run 3/8 Purple Plasma line on my Mile Marker Winch (hydraulic 12k). This winch never gets hot so the synthetic line is perfect for this winch. The synthetics are easy to handle, safer to use, and weigh nearly 35 pounds less than steel cable and roller lead. Yes you do need a Haws Fairlead (which reduces your overhand by several inches!). I prevent the UV problem with a neoprene winch cover supplied from Mile Marker which completely covers the winch and line.

[Woods]

No rot problem with water or dirt although all lines should be kept clean no matter what they are made of. The big problem with synthetics is UV degradation of fibers, sensitivity to heat damage (melting), and poorer abrasion resistance than steel. I run 3/8 Purple Plasma line on my Mile Marker Winch (hydraulic 12k). This winch never gets hot so the synthetic line is perfect for this winch. The synthetics are easy to handle, safer to use, and weigh nearly 35 pounds less than steel cable and roller lead. Yes you do need a Haws Fairlead (which reduces your overhand by several inches!). I prevent the UV problem with a neoprene winch cover supplied from Mile Marker which completely covers the winch and line.

Good info. doc. I'd like to add a couple things to it.

High quality synthetic rope is coated in Urethane for abrasion and UV protection, but I agree that keeping it covered is the best protection.
The heat on winch rope is actually created from the rope rolling onto itself. That's why you sometimes see hybrid ropes for sale. I've seen Dyneema used for 80 feet of the rope, spliced to Technora for the last 20 feet (rope closest to the drum).

[Northridge4x4]

The heat on winch rope is actually created from the rope rolling onto itself. That's why you sometimes see hybrid ropes for sale.

Really? I always thought it was from the internal brake on the drum of the winch.

David

[Zee]

Superwinch has the brake outside the drum, which is what makes the dimensions a bit different than other winches, but also makes it ideal for Synthetic lines. I also thought that the heat was generated from the brake.

[Woods]

Really? I always thought it was from the internal brake on the drum of the winch.

David

Superwinch has the brake outside the drum, which is what makes the dimensions a bit different than other winches, but also makes it ideal for Synthetic lines. I also thought that the heat was generated from the brake.

Went and found the article that I read this on and sure enough, you guys are correct. It's to protect it from the drum that gets hot. :blush:

[easttnruby]

Has anyone one had any history with repairing synthetic line? I broke about 25 ft off mine last spring. Reused the metal eye on the end and had a friend that knows knots retie it for me. I have used this several times since with no issue. Just curious about what yall think. $250-300 is alot of coin to just throw out for a rope after all.

[Desert Fox]

What make of synthetic line were you using? What thickness? What were the circumstances of the pull?

[CAOKKIE]

Went and found the article that I read this on and sure enough, you guys are correct. It's to protect it from the drum that gets hot. :blush:

I won’t weigh in on what generates the most heat, but I think you and Dave were both correct. When the winch line is tightened around its self under great stress it generates heat. Also the more stress the more heat. Really it is the same principle as rubbing your hands together. Just my bone head thoughts.

[easttnruby]

What make of synthetic line were you using? What thickness? What were the circumstances of the pull?

Amsteel Blue 3/8"x100'. It was totally user error. Had spooled my line out to clean after last trip and didnt give two thoughts to make sure line was feeding from bottom. While winching a slippery uphill section rope was feeding over drum and rubbing on the edge of the winch plate itself.

[Desert Fox]

Easttnruby: Thanks for the reply about the broken synthetic line. I have always used steel line and have no experience with synthetic. And, I know that the line should always feed from the underside of the drum, which is not a problem with steel line. But I am confused as to how your line started feeding from the top of the drum without the the entire line, including the hook, being retrieved through the fair-lead and then restarted over the top of the drum and the winch plate. Is there something about using synthetic line I need to know? Like it has a mind of its own?

[easttnruby]

No, the hook does not need to be off to redirect the spool. Once home from a jeep trip i roll out the whole winch to make sure its clean, I just didnt pay attention to how I rolled it back up. If your spooling out your line, all the way at the drum it will just start reeling it iniin the opposite direction, once it unrolls totally.

[Woods]

Has anyone one had any history with repairing synthetic line? I broke about 25 ft off mine last spring. Reused the metal eye on the end and had a friend that knows knots retie it for me. I have used this several times since with no issue. Just curious about what yall think. $250-300 is alot of coin to just throw out for a rope after all.

The line can be spliced back together. Using knots will weaken the rope. Splicing is generally something that is done by a professional. Mostly because it doesn't cost much. Around here, you can get a boat rigger to splice rope for about $20 per splice. If you google synthetic rope splice, I'm sure you'll find instructions on how to do it yourself. Just take your time and make sure to follow all the steps closely.

[MBATF]

The line can be spliced back together. Using knots will weaken the rope. Splicing is generally something that is done by a professional. Mostly because it doesn't cost much. Around here, you can get a boat rigger to splice rope for about $20 per splice. If you google synthetic rope splice, I'm sure you'll find instructions on how to do it yourself. Just take your time and make sure to follow all the steps closely.

While back there were instructions on how to splice the rope on winchline.com not sure if it is still there. But I know that if you buy the splice kit, it will come with instructions.:wink:

[dream catcher]

I switched to synthetic line when I had had my TJ, I currently have a JK unlimited with a Warn 9000i with synthetic line. I went to it for several reasons, lighter weight, easier to handle, no burrs and if it does snap it does not have the stored energy of a steel line and therefore is safer.
I looked at several sites and settled on the masterpull.com site because of the numerous recovery products and price.

[69thunderbird]

4x4ROCKSHOP.com offers Viking Fairlead Rollers for rope - gives you the best of both worlds - rollers and soft/smooth finsh to preserve your rope.

i went with 100' of 5/16 amsteel blue rope - cost was around $160. alot cheaper than larger diameter ropes, and would rather have a rope snap than a clevis!

[TEEJ]

I've had MasterPull Synthetic on one rig for about 6 years now...and, it gets used A Lot.

It has a UV/abrasion resistant coating over it, not just UV inhibitors, etc.

Its been tough and reliable, and even at 5/16", its rated for over 21,000 lb...so even with a snatch block multiplying my 9,500 lb winch capacity, its still strong enough.

The coating does make it stiffer, so its is not as floppy as some of the uncoated ropes, so winding it on is a bit more labor intensive...not harder than steel, but, the other synthetics tend to be more soft and pliable, and wraps that are not especially orderly don't hurt them much.

I was wheeling with some guys from Canada a few years ago, and one of them managed to snap his synthetic line (Amsteel Blue) on a self recovery. It was NOT that hard a pull, I was able to recover him easily with my rig...

I investigated why his line snapped...and, it seems he did not take care of it AT ALL. It was encrusted with sand (As in, a million tiny razor knives...), and was wrapped in a tangle...so every time he used it, it was cutting the fibers....and the rope was several years old.

A steel rope would have been destroyed due to the wrap alone... one good kink, and a wire rope is toast.

So - That was the only snap on a synth line I'd seen.

I've seen DOZENS of wire ropes snap over the years (OK, from the '70's to now...I'm old)...and, I've seen the damage that can create first hand...which is primarily WHY I went synthetic, that, and to cut ~ 45 lb off of the front end.

:D

As for heat...the PRIMARY heat build-up is from LOWERING someone, not from pulling them in...the BRAKE, as Dave mentioned, generates significant heat.

The amount of heat generated from spooling, including the rope laying over itself, is MINIMAL...a few degrees according to my infrared measurements.

The brake heat can be 100's of degrees, and is the real issue.

I rarely use the winch for lowering, and I have a heat wrap on the spool end of the line anyway...so, if I am lowering, its typically a few yards...and, if the heat's an issue, I can pace it, pour water onto the spool, etc...to cool it.

For pulls, its just not an issue worth worrying about.

I have a big assed safety snap hook on the end of the rope, and I can either hook a recovery point on the stuck rig directly with it, or use it to snap on a tree strap, a block and tackle set-up, etc...very easy to use. The Thimbles are great in that they can be wound to the fairlead w/o going in better, but, I like being able to use what's on the end of the rope w/o HAVING to attach something else to use it.

They make a block that goes onto your line on the winch side of the end hook, etc...to act as a Keeper, preventing the hook from being drawn into the fairlead as well.

So - overall, I LOVE the synthetic line...I LOVE losing 45 lb off the bumper (Replaced 125' of steel + Roller Fairlead...), and I am also happy my line won't try to kill me/someone else later.

:D

[Zee]

Thos MasterPull lines are NICE.

[Desert Fox]

Well, as the guy who started this string, I want to let you know that after reading everything I could find on synthetic line and talking to everyone I ran into with synthetic line on their winches, I decided on Master Pull. IMO, a good combination of satisfied users, features and cost. I just ordered 100' of silver 3/8ths line with a new fair-lead and hook. Thanks for all of your comments and help !

[69thunderbird]

If you want to preserve your line - check this out - guy at the 4 wheel shop that has 4 competition rigs told me about this -

Viking Replacement Delrin Fairlead Rollers

Viking rollers are designed to be used with synthetic winch lines, replacing the factory galvanized rollers. They are made from Delrin offering high strength, abrasion resistance, and heat resistance, and have a smooth surface to protect your synthetic winch line. The Viking rollers are 68% lighter than stock. .97 Kg (34.4 oz / 2.1 lb) vs. stock steel rollers at 2.4Kg (83.2 oz / 5.2 lb). Delrin is somewhat similar to lightweight alloys like aluminum. We call it the alloy of plastics because it has good machining properties like aluminum, it is dimensionally stable and very tough. The material is resistant to oils, chemicals, UV light and abrasion

Lightweight
High resistance to abrasion
High heat resistance: maintains serviceable life with intermittent use at 140.5 C (285°F.)
Melting point: 165 C (329° F)
Tensile strength at 73° F: 8,800 psi
Precision CNC Machined


winchline.com/fairleads.htm