Project-JK Gets Off Road Evolution EVO-flex - Part 1: Front Coil Overs

[wayoflifette]

After testing out several bolt on lift kits, from budget boosts to 4" complete systems, we decided to finally take the plunge and go with something that required a bit more modifying. Initially we were going to add the EVO system after we had gone to a long arm kit, but as a test, we decided to try it out with our current short arm TeraFlex 4" lift. So, last week we had Off Road Evolution install their EVO front coil over system and EVO Lever rear coil over system on our JK and in hopes to answer some questions here is an overview of the process.

• Starting with the front, the first step is to cut off the upper spring perch and shock mount :eek2: No going back now :D
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85563

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85566

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85575

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85596

It goes pretty fast with a plasma cutter :yup:

• The next step is to grind down the rough edges to smooth out the frame and get it ready for welding
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85641

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85662

• Now we are ready to weld on the new EVO shock mounts
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=86109

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=86130

• Here is the top mount (aka - the Cobra)
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85959

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85962

• The bottom mount
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85974

• Next, line up the bump stop bracket and weld it to the frame
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=86100&

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=86121

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=86145

• A little bit of trimming needs to be done on the lower spring mount so that the shock will clear
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=86226

• Time to install the coil over and bump stop
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=86250

• Drill and tap to relocate the brake line bracket
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=86316

• Line up and weld on the brackets for the shock reservoirs
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=87021

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=87030

• Install longer sway bar links to allow for greater articulation
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=86841

• Mount the shock reservoirs
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=91293

• All done! :ya:
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=87075

Out on the trail :thumbsup:
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=84563

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85354

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85420

After testing the EVO coil over system both on and off road, I have to say that it provides an outstanding ride and amazing stupid crazy flex! :crazyeyes: :clap:

Next up....the EVO Lever rear coil over system. :yup:

[Piginajeep]

thats crazy, Looks and flex's nice..

Nice welds too!

[BIGDADDYJK]

So you did get the coil overs on with the short arms? :thinking:

[wayoflife]

So you did get the coil overs on with the short arms? :thinking:

yup, thought we would give it a try to see how it works. right off the bat, it gives about as much if not more flex than most long arm kits and way more than some like the RE long arm kit. :yup: it's simply amazing what you can do with short arms :crazyeyes:

[TYCOON12]

After testing out several bolt on lift kits, from budget boosts to 4" complete systems, we decided to finally take the plunge and go with something that required a bit more modifying. Initially we were going to add the EVO system after we had gone to a long arm kit, but as a test, we decided to try it out with our current short arm TeraFlex 4" lift. So, last week we had Off Road Evolution install their EVO front coil over system and EVO Lever rear coil over system on our JK and in hopes to answer some questions here is an overview of the process.

• Starting with the front, the first step is to cut off the upper spring perch and shock mount :eek2: No going back now :D
http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85563


After testing the EVO coil over system both on and off road, I have to say that it provides an outstanding ride and amazing stupid crazy flex! :crazyeyes: :clap:

Next up....the EVO Lever rear coil over system. :yup:


Hands down the best suspension mod on my JK to date. If you have the cash the ride is phenomenal and the flex on the rocks is outstanding.

[Ewok]

That's some ridiculous FLEX!

[robin]

yup, thought we would give it a try to see how it works. right off the bat, it gives about as much if not more flex than most long arm kits and way more than some like the RE long arm kit. :yup: it's simply amazing what you can do with short arms :crazyeyes:

I know you said before, you didn't really see the need for long arms. do you still feel the same .way. jk short arms are really not that short.

[JulietKilo]

YOWZAA :what?: COST?

[mountain man]

Did you keep the full traction control arms or swap the out?

[ranwitscissorz]

Those offroad evolution guys can do some good work with metal. :eek2:

[JulietKilo]

YOWZAA :what?: COST?

Nevermind.

500 For the kit
1000-1500 for the coil overs
0 weld yourself
=

1500-2000 for install

Umm someday I will want and afford this.

[Piginajeep]

Did you keep the full traction control arms or swap the out?

he's running a teraflex kit at the moment

[wayoflife]

That's some ridiculous FLEX!

the ridiculous thing is, the photos really don't do it justice. :crazyeyes:

Wow thats just crazy! congrats on that!

thank you :D

I know you said before, you didn't really see the need for long arms. do you still feel the same .way. jk short arms are really not that short.

yes - more now than ever before. not that long arms are a bad thing mind you, certainly, if you have the money, the know how and the willingness to hack/grind/drill/weld new componets on, by all means, you should. however, it simply isn't necessary the way it was on a TJ especially once you got to 4" or taller. as this experiment has proven to me, with a set of good adjustable short arms and the Off Road Evolution EVO coilover/cantilever system, you can obtain an outstanding ride on pavement and just as much felx if not more so than most long arm kits right out of the box. Certainly, in the case of some long arm kits like the kind RE makes, you will get WAY more felx :crazyeyes:

[wayoflife]

Did you keep the full traction control arms or swap the out?

i am currently running teraflex arms but the EVO system will work with just about any short arm or long arm suspension system ot there today.

Those offroad evolution guys can do some good work with metal. :eek2:

indeed! :clap:

Nevermind.

500 For the kit
1000-1500 for the coil overs
0 weld yourself
=

1500-2000 for install

Umm someday I will want and afford this.

LOL!! glad that you were able to find what you were looking for. however, depending on what coilovers you get, it could be a bit more. i bought a basic set of kings and they were pricey and i know that some of ORE's clients are getting tripple bypass kings and they cost a small fortune :eek2:

he's running a teraflex kit at the moment

yup :yup:

[TeraFlex]

Wow!! Hey that looks great! Looks like I need to call Mel and ask him some questions. Oh and that's some sick flex for a short arm!:jawdrop:

[HappyCurmudgeon]

OMG. :eek2:

[08RedRecon]

Thats awesome!!:thumbsup:

[CLACKEY(_!_)]

W:eek2:W :thumbsup:

[jonsjeep]

what do you do about the wire to the hubs for the ESP???:thinking:

[TYCOON12]

what do you do about the wire to the hubs for the ESP???:thinking:

None of that changes, you retain all the ESP wires as the stock vehicle sits now.

[a-squared]

Are they going to offer a bolt on, no welding required version???

[TYCOON12]

Are they going to offer a bolt on, no welding required version???

Doubt it. Mel would obviously be the one to ask but with a set-up like this you want a welded shock mount in place. You don't spend that kinda money for a bolt on shock kit. This is really a top of the line performance front end kit and King is the leader when it comes to custom racing shocks. Not to downplay it at all but despite the pics of the cutting and welding it's really not that crazy of an install.

[QKSILVER]

You mentioned the on-road ride is outstanding. Did you have to adjust any of the steering geometry? How do you feel the kit would handle during an emergency panic stop or lane change compared to your other lift kits? Did you gain or lose any lift with this kit?

[a-squared]

You mentioned the on-road ride is outstanding. Did you have to adjust any of the steering geometry? How do you feel the kit would handle during an emergency panic stop or lane change compared to your other lift kits? Did you gain or lose any lift with this kit?

:popcorn:


Also, does this kit reduce the head bobbling on approaches full of little bowling ball sized rocks?

[TYCOON12]

You mentioned the on-road ride is outstanding. Did you have to adjust any of the steering geometry? How do you feel the kit would handle during an emergency panic stop or lane change compared to your other lift kits? Did you gain or lose any lift with this kit?

Can't speak for the Wayoflife crew but my ride is outstanding in all aspects, On Hwy, Off-Road, and everywhere in between. It’s been tested on some of the toughest terrain and ashamed to say driven at over 100mph on the hwy and rides like a caddy. It can feel a little soft in the front end but I personally don't mind that. I guess during a hard stop the front end might sink a little but nothing that would affect stopping safely. There are going to be differences on each vehicle based on what kinda arm kit you have etc etc,. The front end height is now adjustable due to the coil-over's and can be adjusted to accept 42" tires by adjusting the coils. Sorry but I can't remember if there was an issue with adjusting the steering, if so it's an easy adjustment and Mel would handle that for you no problem. I have had no issues with my steering. Mel can explain a lot more in detail and if anybody is serious about this upgrade I would strongly suggest takin a drive down to Fullerton so Mel can give you a tour and show you first hand what’s involved in the kit...that is if you live locally of course, otherwise give em a ring...super nice guy.

Long download (15-20 min) but shows the EVO in action during a recent trip.
http://dc14.4shared.com/download/59981209/5919d864/SwampLake.wmv

[QKSILVER]

OK here's a stupid question. Would a stock Rubicon Unlimited require both front and rear coil systems to be installed at the same time?

[freshjk]

Please open a shop on the east coast!!!!:WootJump:Please please

[mmcan]

Hands down the best suspension mod on my JK to date. If you have the cash the ride is phenomenal and the flex on the rocks is outstanding.

Sick, Stupid, Crazy, Green with Envy Flex,...!!!!

Can this be installed on ANY lift, and how much does this thing cost???

Should I do the Hemi first, and then this? Or visa-versa???

(Not that I have the dough to do either, but DAMN I want to do both!)

WOL, would you say that you think this is a safer on road system?

The off road flex is crazy. I don't know how you manage to be so reserved in comparing this to ANY long arm. I have nowhere near that kind of flex.

[wayoflife]

what do you do about the wire to the hubs for the ESP???:thinking:

as TYCOON12 has already stated, everything stays the same - the wiring just gets rerouted a bit to allow for more droop.

None of that changes, you retain all the ESP wires as the stock vehicle sits now.

yup :yup:

Are they going to offer a bolt on, no welding required version???

there has been talk of this but honestly, i would just have it burned in as that's what will serve you best.

Doubt it. Mel would obviously be the one to ask but with a set-up like this you want a welded shock mount in place. You don't spend that kinda money for a bolt on shock kit. This is really a top of the line performance front end kit and King is the leader when it comes to custom racing shocks. Not to downplay it at all but despite the pics of the cutting and welding it's really not that crazy of an install.

honestly, i don't know if i could have said it better myself :yup:

[5k!PpY]

That is amazing flex. Wayoflife, could you give some insight on the on-road performance? How does it ride? Also how much are we looking at to have the entire front end done? I'm making a trip out there in spring 2009 and would like to start saving to possibly have this done while I'm out there. Appreciate it!

[wayoflife]

You mentioned the on-road ride is outstanding. Did you have to adjust any of the steering geometry? How do you feel the kit would handle during an emergency panic stop or lane change compared to your other lift kits? Did you gain or lose any lift with this kit?

regarding steering geometery, no other adjustments are required other than what you would need for any 4"-6" lift. essentially, dropped pitman arm and track bar drop bracket. as far as handling in an emergency maneuver goes, it actually performs BETTER than stock IMHO. as for lift, i actually had my coilovers adjusted for the same height that i had with my teraflex 4" flex arm kit which was more or less a 5" lift. however, if i had trimmed fenders, i could actually have them adjusted so that my jk sat a bit lower. either way, it's all adjustable and you can set it to pretty much anything you want - within reason of course.

:popcorn:


Also, does this kit reduce the head bobbling on approaches full of little bowling ball sized rocks?

well, i didn't really have that problem before as the lifts i was running were really good kits. but, the spring rates and valving on this setup can be adjusted to however you want. :crazyeyes:

OK here's a stupid question. Would a stock Rubicon Unlimited require both front and rear coil systems to be installed at the same time?

no - you can do one side at a time but you would need to address how to lift on the end you don't have it installed on. in other words, you would need taller coils and longer shocks on that end as well as control arms, etc.

[wayoflife]

Sick, Stupid, Crazy, Green with Envy Flex,...!!!!

Can this be installed on ANY lift, and how much does this thing cost???

Should I do the Hemi first, and then this? Or visa-versa???

(Not that I have the dough to do either, but DAMN I want to do both!)

WOL, would you say that you think this is a safer on road system?

The off road flex is crazy. I don't know how you manage to be so reserved in comparing this to ANY long arm. I have nowhere near that kind of flex.

yes, this can be installed with just about any lift kit there is out there and it will ENHANCE what your lift can do now.

if it were up to me, i would go with this before a HEMI

regarding on road safety, yes, dialed in, the EVO setup seriously outperforms what i was feeling with any previous setup.

as far as your long arm kit goes, with the addition of the EVO system, your jeep will ride and simply spank the flex that i am seeing on my JK. how do i know, i have seen a FT long arm kit with the EVO system and it is dumbfounding how amazing well it performs :crazyeyes:

That is amazing flex. Wayoflife, could you give some insight on the on-road performance? How does it ride? Also how much are we looking at to have the entire front end done? I'm making a trip out there in spring 2009 and would like to start saving to possibly have this done while I'm out there. Appreciate it!

how this for you, on all the previous lift that i've run, my ESP would go off when driving a little faster than i should on twisty mountain roads. this was especially the case on long wide turns doing about 30 MPH. granted, a lot of this was most likely caused by body roll and would eventually go away with time as the computer started to learn things but with the EVO system installed, there is no more body roll or unstable feel and my ESP didn't go off once when heading up to niagara rim last week. in fact, this really is the best ride that i've had yet.

as far as pricing goes, i think JulietKilo had it about right...

500 For the kit
1000-1500 for the coil overs
0 weld yourself
=

1500-2000 for install

:cool:

[TYCOON12]

[QUOTE=mmcan;655717]Sick, Stupid, Crazy, Green with Envy Flex,...!!!!


Should I do the Hemi first, and then this? Or visa-versa???

(Not that I have the dough to do either, but DAMN I want to do both!)



Hehh Heh...yeah your in two different ball parks here. Looking at roughly $18-$26,000 for a 5.7 6.1 Hemi Swap and $2,000 for a Evo Front End. As Wayoflife said deffinitley go with the suspension first you won't be dissapointed or risk divorce.

[HappyCurmudgeon]

:what?: And just when i thought i had my wish list all buttoned up for christmas... :LOL:

[6th_jeep]

Are these 12" or 14" coilovers used? Anyone know what length coilover Mel uses on his?

[RedneckJeep]

Man that rig is so awesome it's gettin ridiculous. LOL

[TSmith0820]

Correct me if I'm wrong but that rough price estimate doesn't include the air bumpstops you will also need does it? From my sketchy memory I believe they are another $225 or so for a pair. Doing what you have done (EVO system with short arm kit) entered my mind but I brushed off that idea since I didn't think it would be worth doing. I decided the next step was long arms and then the EVO system... now I'm not so sure. The only problem I see is that my RE lower arms are fixed length. Pointless to replace them with another set of short arms when that money is better spent on the long arm kit.

Ty

[wayoflife]

Are these 12" or 14" coilovers used? Anyone know what length coilover Mel uses on his?

i got the 12" and mel has 14" on his.

[wayoflife]

Correct me if I'm wrong but that rough price estimate doesn't include the air bumpstops you will also need does it? From my sketchy memory I believe they are another $225 or so for a pair. Doing what you have done (EVO system with short arm kit) entered my mind but I brushed off that idea since I didn't think it would be worth doing. I decided the next step was long arms and then the EVO system... now I'm not so sure. The only problem I see is that my RE lower arms are fixed length. Pointless to replace them with another set of short arms when that money is better spent on the long arm kit.

Ty

i hear where coming from and trust me, the EVO system on a 4-link long arm kit is really the way to go if you can afford it. it's too bad that you got fixed length arms with your RE short arm kit as you could have just done what i did :crazyeyes:

[chuck45]

Certainly, in the case of some long arm kits like the kind RE makes, you will get WAY more felx :crazyeyes:

Out of curiousity what is the problem with the RE Long Arm Kit? Is there something inherant in it being a radius arm that limits flex or is it something else?

What is the best LA kit that allows maximum flex.

[JackMac4]

Out of curiousity what is the problem with the RE Long Arm Kit? Is there something inherant in it being a radius arm that limits flex or is it something else?

What is the best LA kit that allows maximum flex.

You nailed it....radius arms inherently limit the flex but provide for a smooth ride on road.

[wayoflife]

Out of curiousity what is the problem with the RE Long Arm Kit? Is there something inherant in it being a radius arm that limits flex or is it something else?

yes, radius arms simply cannot flex as much as a 4-link setup. according to RE themselves...

"it's not the RTI ramp scores we are going for, we're going for the drivablity and funtionality out on the trials. we don't want to have to put limit straps on our vehicles to keep the suspension from ripping the vehicle apart and tearing brackets off, we'll let the actual components that we designed on the vehicle keep the vehicle in one piece." - scott becker

if you want, i can post up the complete interview from sema of them trying to sell the idea of why limited flex (by comparison to a 4-link setup) is what you want.

as far as brackets breaking goes, i have seen radius arms on jk's on the the trail and for me personally, i have a hard time believing that less strain would be placed on two control arm mounts being torqued as they limit your axle flex as opposed to 4 that do allow for much more suspension travel. but hey, what do i know. :crazyeyes:

What is the best LA kit that allows maximum flex.

any 4-link long arm setup will give you a hell of a lot more flex than a radius arm setup. depending on the joints used, some more than others.

[wayoflife]

You nailed it....radius arms inherently limit the flex but provide for a smooth ride on road.

actually, any long arm kit will smooth out your ride on road especially if you have a 2-door :yup:

[JulietKilo]

Correct me if I'm wrong but that rough price estimate doesn't include the air bumpstops you will also need does it? From my sketchy memory I believe they are another $225 or so for a pair. Doing what you have done (EVO system with short arm kit) entered my mind but I brushed off that idea since I didn't think it would be worth doing. I decided the next step was long arms and then the EVO system... now I'm not so sure. The only problem I see is that my RE lower arms are fixed length. Pointless to replace them with another set of short arms when that money is better spent on the long arm kit.

Ty

You are right i forgot! SO that could bring the total into the 2000 dollar range. King coils are around 500 bucks for 14 inch travel. Still probably will make their way on my Jeep. What an awesome suspension. :clap:

[wayoflife]

okay, i just looked through some of our old photos and found this pic of a JK with an RE long arm kit on the trail...

http://www.project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=36476

amazingly, this is a JK with an RE short arm kit...

http://www.project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=36488

2 JK's on the same rock, one is hanging it's 37" tire and the other planting its 33" tire on the ground. both kits are made by RE - one is just made with radius arms and the other uses a 4-link setup.

[HOMEGLASS]

Hi,

Not very technically adept. I bought the long-arm because of the MOPAR endorsement of it. Any idea why they (MOPAR) would do that given the limitations you point out? I'm hoping that there is some reason.

[JackMac4]

actually, any long arm kit will smooth out your ride on road especially if you have a 2-door :yup:

Right - I should have clarified that. Thanks...

I'd like to lower my CoG with an LA kit on my 2dr...I bet it would be nice.

[chuck45]

2 JK's on the same rock, one is hanging it's 37" tire and the other planting its 33" tire on the ground. both kits are made by RE - one is just made with radius arms and the other uses a 4-link setup.

I'm glad I didn't drop the dollars on the RE LA kit but got the 3.5" short arm. I understand that the LA kit gives a nice road ride; but I'll be damned if I want to give up that much off road articulation.

RE uses a ball type joint in one end of their arms and a rubber bushing in the other. I've been considering buying ball joint ends, cutting of the bushing ends and welding up ball joint ends. There might be a bit less ride quality and isolation but with agressive tires and 1350 driveshafts I'll bet I'd never notice it.

[chuck45]

yes, radius arms simply cannot flex as much as a 4-link setup. according to RE themselves...

"it's not the RTI ramp scores we are going for, we're going for the drivablity and funtionality out on the trials. we don't want to have to put limit straps on our vehicles to keep the suspension from tearing the vehicle apart and tearing brackets off, we'll let the actual components that we designed on the vehicle keep in one piece." - scott becker

if you want, i can post up the complete interview from sema of them trying to sell the idea of why little to no flex is what you want.


I would love to see the complete interview. Thanks!

[PONCH]

That's just nuts and now I have to have 1.

VERY VERY NICE!!!

[PONCH]

So if your going with a rear coil over also, what part of the original lift kit are you retaining?

[PONCH]

Thought he was running the Evo Lever......

Same thing

[matto0]

I may be wrong but isn't the swaybar still connected in the long arm flex pic?

Matt

okay, i just looked through some of our old photos and found this pic of a JK with an RE long arm kit on the trail...

http://www.project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=36476

amazingly, this is a JK with an RE short arm kit...

http://www.project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=36488

2 JK's on the same rock, one is hanging it's 37" tire and the other planting its 33" tire on the ground. both kits are made by RE - one is just made with radius arms and the other uses a 4-link setup.

[TYCOON12]

So if your going with a rear coil over also, what part of the original lift kit are you retaining?

hehh heh, Other than the arms he isn't retaining much.

[TYCOON12]

I may be wrong but isn't the swaybar still connected in the long arm flex pic?

Matt

He has the Rubi with the Electronic Sway Disco. Looks connected but is released where the sway bar motor is. They don't disconnect like conventional sway bars.

[wayoflife]

Hi,

Not very technically adept. I bought the long-arm because of the MOPAR endorsement of it. Any idea why they (MOPAR) would do that given the limitations you point out? I'm hoping that there is some reason.

depending on who you talk to, i'm sure you will get a different story. what i can tell you is that superlift has had a long tradition of working with mopar and if anyone, one would think that they would have gotten the deal. however, as you know, superlift still does not have a long arm kit and from what i understand, they didn't think a long arm kit was needed for the JK and if this is true, i would tend to agree with them. not that a long arm kit wouldn't be desirable but it really isn't 'needed' per se as the JK already has pretty long arms. again, from what i understand, when mopar put out the word they were looking for a long arm kit for the ORT line, RE was the only company to take them seriously, as they should have and as should have everyone else. ultimately, mopar most like picked RE because of this and the fact that RE does in fact make high quality products. but, just because the quality of their products is good does not mean that the design of their long arm is.... at least, when it come to off road performance. on road, it drive great - i have ridden in one on the street and can tell you this from experience. on the trail, it simply has no flex and maybe even less than their own short arm kit.

I'm glad I didn't drop the dollars on the RE LA kit but got the 3.5" short arm. I understand that the LA kit gives a nice road ride; but I'll be damned if I want to give up that much off road articulation.

RE uses a ball type joint in one end of their arms and a rubber bushing in the other. I've been considering buying ball joint ends, cutting of the bushing ends and welding up ball joint ends. There might be a bit less ride quality and isolation but with agressive tires and 1350 driveshafts I'll bet I'd never notice it.

like you, i couldn't imagine spending that much money and putting that much effort into installing a kit that actually LIMITED my flex. from what i have seen and as you can see in the photos above, their arms start to bind at about 7" of droop. likewise, i can't see how putting this much strain on 2 joints would be a good thing over the long haul. but, to it's credit, it is made well, has a nice finish and does ride nicely on pavement.

I would love to see the complete interview. Thanks!

okay, i will try to get it up as soon as i can.

[wayoflife]

So if your going with a rear coil over also, what part of the original lift kit are you retaining?

pretty much, just the control arms, factory rear track bar and factory rear sway bar. the type of arms and the joints they have will help determine how much flex you will get and so far, the TeraFlex arms that i have really do the job well. as far as the factory componets go, there will be upgrades to them in the future but for now, they are retained and still work quite well.

Thought he was running the Evo Lever......

yes, i am. we will be doing a part 2 post on this soon - stay tuned :D

I may be wrong but isn't the swaybar still connected in the long arm flex pic?

Matt

yes, it is but it is also a rubicon. trust me, i asked the driver on multiple occasions to make sure he was disconnected. i myself verified that he was. the lack of droop you see is solely a result of the bind from his radius arms.

hehh heh, Other than the arms he isn't retaining much.

nope :crazyeyes:

He has the Rubi with the Electronic Sway Disco. Looks connected but is released where the sway bar motor is. They don't disconnect like conventional sway bars.

exactly :yup:

[TSmith0820]

Since the lower arms of my RE kit are fixed should I stick with my plan of getting a long arm kit first? Keep in mind they are longer than the stock arms by a little bit. Second, isn't the major limit factor of the RE long arm kit the short shocks they include with the kit. My short arm kit came with rear shocks that were shorter than the ones Teraflex includes with the 2.5 BB lift I had. I'd like to see the RE and FT long arm kits side by side with the same shocks. I have a hard time understanding 4 mounting points being less likely to bind than 2.

Ty

[PONCH]

Does this kit also work with a Piggy Back?

[matto0]

yes, it is but it is also a rubicon. trust me, i asked the driver on multiple occasions to make sure he was disconnected. i myself verified that he was. the lack of droop you see is solely a result of the bind from his radius arms.



Wow thats nuts - I also forget that the Rubi's have those push button discos. :thumbsup:

Matt

[wayoflife]

Since the lower arms of my RE kit are fixed should I stick with my plan of getting a long arm kit first? Keep in mind they are longer than the stock arms by a little bit.

unless you are willing to buy a new set of adjustable control arms, i would recommend going long arm.

Second, isn't the major limit factor of the RE long arm kit the short shocks they include with the kit. My short arm kit came with rear shocks that were shorter than the ones Teraflex includes with the 2.5 BB lift I had.

but, why purposefully package a kit with short shocks to begin with? Is it because RE knows you won't be able to get anymore droop anyway or, are they trying to use them as limiting straps to help prevent strain on the control arm mounts?

I'd like to see the RE and FT long arm kits side by side with the same shocks.

if someone with an RE kit and is local to me is willing to do this, this might be something that can be done.

I have a hard time understanding 4 mounting points being less likely to bind than 2.

perhaps it's something you have to see, but do you understand what bind is and why it occurs? your control arms do more than just move up and down in a straight line but rather, they want rotate and move side to side as well. by eliminating the upper control arms (what a radius arm setup will do), you are effectively taking what was a 3 dimensional box that had moveable joints at each corners and are making it into a 2 dimensional plane that offers about as much tortional flex as a sheet of plywood. does that make sense?

[wayoflife]

I would love to see the complete interview. Thanks!

Complete interview can now be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40RReTuJJto

Does this kit also work with a Piggy Back?

so long as the person giving the piggy back doesn't mind having brackets welded on to them, sure, i'll bet it works :D

Wow thats nuts - I also forget that the Rubi's have those push button discos. :thumbsup:

Matt

funny thing is, it's maybe the one feature that i thought i would care less about but am so glad that i have it now :crazyeyes:

[wayoflife]

back on topic, i should point out that your control arms and the kind of joints they have will offer you more or limit the amount of flex the EVO front coilovers can give you. in other words, if you have factory arms or aftermarket arms with solid rubber or poly bushings on both ends, you flex will be limited to how much the joints can give. likewise, if you have a rod end or assembly joint (joints that are made to rotate) on at least one end like the TeraFlex arms i have on now, the amout of flex you will have will be greatly increased. :yup:

[QKSILVER]

Anyone willing to advise what it would take to get a Stock Rubicon Unlimited to enjoy this much flex?

[wayoflife]

Anyone willing to advise what it would take to get a Stock Rubicon Unlimited to enjoy this much flex?

good adjustable control arms and probably a front track bar drop bracket, dropped pitman arm, extended brake lines and the off road evolution EVO front coilovers and rear EVO lever system. that's it. :yup:

[bly109]

good adjustable control arms, front track bar drop bracket, dropped pitman arm, extended brake lines and the off road evolution EVO front coilovers and rear EVO lever system. that's it. :yup:

hahhaha you make it sound so easy! :bleh: Ok... I guess the hardest part is the hit to your check book, but it definitely looks worth it:thumbsup:

[wayoflife]

hahhaha you make it sound so easy! :bleh: Ok... I guess the hardest part is the hit to your check book, but it definitely looks worth it:thumbsup:

LOL!! being that this is one of the few projects that i didn't do myself, it kind of was. definitely the hit to the checkbook was the hardest part but depending on what coilovers you go with, it can be a bit more affordable.... or, then again, it could cost a small fortune :eek2: :crazyeyes:

[a-squared]

Could my local shop pull this off?

[wayoflife]

Could my local shop pull this off?

the rear EVO lever you can definitely do yourself. up front, hacking everything off is easy. the hardest part is finding someone who can do good welding and if your shop can do that, they can definitely pull this off :yup:

[Camp Crocker]

Nice guys, really nice. Can I have one?

[Eracer76]

okay, i just looked through some of our old photos and found this pic of a JK with an RE long arm kit on the trail...

http://www.project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=36476

amazingly, this is a JK with an RE short arm kit...

http://www.project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=36488

2 JK's on the same rock, one is hanging it's 37" tire and the other planting its 33" tire on the ground. both kits are made by RE - one is just made with radius arms and the other uses a 4-link setup.

There is something wrong with that RE LA Jeep then. Either the electronic sway bar is broken and not disconnecting, or maybe it has the wrong shocks, or something is wrong with his install of the kit, but either way that Jeep is NOT flexing like it should!




On road, it drive great - i have ridden in one on the street and can tell you this from experience. on the trail, it simply has no flex and maybe even less than their own short arm kit.

like you, i couldn't imagine spending that much money and putting that much effort into installing a kit that actually LIMITED my flex. from what i have seen and as you can see in the photos above, their arms start to bind at about 7" of droop. likewise, i can't see how putting this much strain on 2 joints would be a good thing over the long haul. but, to it's credit, it is made well, has a nice finish and does ride nicely on pavement.

Your right, they do ride great on road. But Im guessing the one you road in is the one in the picture above? If so, that would explain why you feel it has no flex, because there is something definitely not right with that LA Jeep compared to the RE short arm pic.

Im speaking from experience too, because I had the RE short arm kit before I upgraded to the long arm kit. I can tell you the LA kit does NOT limit the flex like you make it sound or like your picture shows. Since upgrading, my Jeep flexes much better now and the ride on and off road is better too. The arms are not binding under full flex either, the only thing limiting my flex right now are the shocks, and my coils that come 1/4" out of the seat when flexing.

Sorry for going a little off topic again, but I just had to stick up for the RE LA kit since the pic above is not a true sign of what it can do.

On topic... I hope to someday get the EVO kits and see just how far the my LA kit will flex out before binding. :)


But for now, Im happy with the way it flexes....both pics, all 4 are on the ground :)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/LSTracer/Badlands%205-24-08/DSC00027.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/LSTracer/Badlands%205-24-08/IMG_0095.jpg

[JulietKilo]

Anyone willing to advise what it would take to get a Stock Rubicon Unlimited to enjoy this much flex?

I must say that my basic 4 inch franken lift has a lot of flex and would please anyone IMHO. 27.5 inch droop shocks with about 10-11 inches of travel with 35's. It doesnt flex like coilovers but it does flex.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q269/jeepstuff/4x4%20Destinations/Post%20TX/DSCN2599.jpg

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q269/jeepstuff/4x4%20Destinations/Post%20TX/DSCN2608.jpg

I think it just depends on what you are looking for. But for about 600-700 bucks I came up with a great lift and a great daily driver! :wink:

[wayoflife]

There is something wrong with that RE LA Jeep then. Either the electronic sway bar is broken and not disconnecting, or maybe it has the wrong shocks, or something is wrong with his install of the kit, but either way that Jeep is NOT flexing like it should!

honestly, i was thinking something along the same lines as well when i saw it. and, looking at his shocks, they did look maxed out or close to it but i was told that he used the shocks that came with the kit. all things considered, that would make sense to me if the shocks were being used as limiting straps - prevent too much droop to preserve the bushings.

Your right, they do ride great on road. But Im guessing the one you road in is the one in the picture above? If so, that would explain why you feel it has no flex, because there is something definitely not right with that LA Jeep compared to the RE short arm pic.

no - i did not ride in the JK shown and have never ridden in one on the trail.

Im speaking from experience too, because I had the RE short arm kit before I upgraded to the long arm kit. I can tell you the LA kit does NOT limit the flex like you make it sound or like your picture shows. Since upgrading, my Jeep flexes much better now and the ride on and off road is better too. The arms are not binding under full flex either, the only thing limiting my flex right now are the shocks, and my coils that come 1/4" out of the seat when flexing.

really? honestly, looking at your photos, i'm not so sure how you could be making this statement. first off, are you using the shocks that came with the kit or are you using something else? while they do look like they allow for more droop, clearly you have to admit that it isn't nearly as much as a 4-link setup could offer. being that you have 35's, i would have thought that your tire should have dropped below the frame or even pinch seam but in this pic, you are well above both. granted, maybe it's just the terrain you were on and given different circumstances, you would have achieved more. certainly, i have seen 37's droop past this point with ease...

http://www.jk-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12264&d=1219900398

also, please don't misunderstand me for pointing this out but, are you aware that your rear tire is not stuffing up into the wheel well and that your driver side shock has about half its lenght still showing? of course, this is to say nothing about the fact that your body is way off balance...

http://www.jk-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12267&stc=1&d=1219904713

if your suspension were in fact providing good flex, your suspension should allow for enough articulation to stuff your tire up, use up most of the shock lenght and keep your body relatively level. from what i am seeing in your photo, your suspension is binding and that's why everything looks the way it does. now, if you're happy with what you got, that's great, i really am happy for you. my point in bringing any of this up in the first place was to inform people that I (me personally) wouldn't be satisfied with this and would have expected a lot more from a long arm kit. but as i said, this is just me.

Sorry for going a little off topic again, but I just had to stick up for the RE LA kit since the pic above is not a true sign of what it can do.

no apologiese necessary. however, i should point out that the photo i posted shows a jk on 37's, you have 35's. the smaller tires you have will make your flex look like you have more. also, the angle i took this photo not the same as you took yours. i might argue that it would still measure out to being about what i am seeing on your jeep if it were taken the same way and had 35's too. either way, even what i'm seeing in your photos, i'm still not seeing what i personally would expect from a long arm kit and honestly, i think i still see way more flex with my short arms than what you are with your long arms....

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=84563

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85420

keep in mind, these head on shots are of my JK with short arms and even though the camera angle is low, you can still see that the top my 37" tire is sitting at about the pinch seam if not a bit lower.

again, please know this is not personal and i'm not trying to get you to defend the RE kit - i'm just pointing out what i see.

But for now, Im happy with the way it flexes....both pics, all 4 are on the ground :)

glad to hear it. honestly, if you're happy with it, that's all that really matters :yup:

[QKSILVER]

Are there any side effects to all of this flex?

[wayoflife]

Are there any side effects to all of this flex?

sure - depending on the joints your control arms have, this massive amount of flex may put a lot of stress on them and this can potentially blow them out. so far, the teraflex arms i am using seem to be up to the task but it might be some time before i can tell you what the long term effects are. with the kind of wheeling i do, i wouldn't be surprised if the did go sooner than later but that would be no fault of teraflex especially since their arms weren't specifically designed for the EVO flex. having said all that, a good 4-link long arm kit will reduce this stress. :cool:

[wayoflife]

in case any of you were interested in some lab test shots, here is my JK up on a 30° RTI ramp - remember, all this was accomplished with short arms :crazyeyes:....

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=87111

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=87120

with all 4 on the floor baby!! :D

[jeepik]

his shots look great for the RE long arm, the shot on the rock looks to be completely off camber, hence why the jeep is not as centered

the design of the RE kit is the best in the way it attaches to the frame, highest clearance possible ( that is very attractive for those of us who dont like to replace crossmembers every season

[505JK]

For a long arm vs long arm comparison, this is a picture of AdamORW's JK with a FT long arm kit. It a very good example of what WOL is trying to articulate.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj270/adamorw/Rubicon%20July%2008/IMG_1227.jpg

More info: http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=49840

If I remember correctly, he is using 14" travel shocks.

[jeepik]

as great as the full traction lift is,

the relationship of the bottom of the front crossmember and the top of the tire is what should be really looked at here

RE is high clearance, FT is not(in fact probably the lowest clearance kit out there

[505JK]

as great as the full traction lift is,

the relationship of the bottom of the front crossmember and the top of the tire is what should be really looked at here

RE is high clearance, FT is not(in fact probably the lowest clearance kit out there

I definitely agree about the cross member and would also point out the rear lower control arm mounts.

[JackMac4]

and what exactly does the clearance have to do with the flex, droop, or any of the other topic items here?

[wayoflife]

his shots look great for the RE long arm, the shot on the rock looks to be completely off camber, hence why the jeep is not as centered

well obviously, he's on a rock and on a slight slope. however, IF he had better flex, his jeep would be more balanced and stable. as it is, this photo makes his jeep look very tippy. or, at least, that's how i'm seeing it.

the design of the RE kit is the best in the way it attaches to the frame, highest clearance possible ( that is very attractive for those of us who dont like to replace crossmembers every season

apparently, you haven't seen the teraflex long arm kit. also, the full traction front cross member only sits about 1/2" lower than the factory cross member and that's because it has a skid plate that protects the exhaust cross over.

all that aside, exactly what does any of this have to do with FLEX? i will still contend that my short arm kit offers better flex than the RE long arm kit and any 4-link long arm kit would offer substantially better flex than would the RE long arm kit. unfortunately, not liking certain features of kit made by other companies won't make the RE long arm kit flex any better.

[wayoflife]

For a long arm vs long arm comparison, this is a picture of AdamORW's JK with a FT long arm kit. It a very good example of what WOL is trying to articulate.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj270/adamorw/Rubicon%20July%2008/IMG_1227.jpg

More info: http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=49840

If I remember correctly, he is using 14" travel shocks.

see, now that's FLEX!! :thumbsup:

[wayoflife]

as great as the full traction lift is,

the relationship of the bottom of the front crossmember and the top of the tire is what should be really looked at here

RE is high clearance, FT is not(in fact probably the lowest clearance kit out there

you'll forgive me but when has this discussion ever been about clearance of the cross member? in truth, what difference would clearance make if you don't have the flex to get yourself up really big rocks?

i should also point out once again, the FT cross member sits only about 1/2" lower than the factory cross member and this is only because they offer a skid plate that helps to protect the exhaust cross over. yes, this would make it have the lowest hanging crossmember but i fail to see how more clearance would help improve the limited flex of the RE kit.

[Eracer76]

honestly, i was thinking something along the same lines as well when i saw it. and, looking at his shocks, they did look maxed out or close to it but i was told that he used the shocks that came with the kit. all things considered, that would make sense to me if the shocks were being used as limiting straps - prevent too much droop to preserve the bushings.
Mabe he got the wrong shocks sent with his kit or something?
We've all seen stranger things happen before..

really? honestly, looking at your photos, i'm not so sure how you could be making this statement. first off, are you using the shocks that came with the kit or are you using something else? while they do look like they allow for more droop, clearly you have to admit that it isn't nearly as much as a 4-link setup could offer. being that you have 35's, i would have thought that your tire should have dropped below the frame or even pinch seam but in this pic, you are well above both. granted, maybe it's just the terrain you were on and given different circumstances, you would have achieved more. certainly, i have seen 37's droop past this point with ease...
Yes Im using the shocks that came with my kit.
My tires do drop below the pinch seam which is covered up by my rock rails that hang down almost to the bottom of the frame.
Yes, Ive seen 37's drop below this point too, but only when using extra long travel shocks or coilovers, and not with shocks out of the lift kit box.

also, please don't misunderstand me for pointing this out but, are you aware that your rear tire is not stuffing up into the wheel well and that your driver side shock has about half its lenght still showing? of course, this is to say nothing about the fact that your body is way off balance...

if your suspension were in fact providing good flex, your suspension should allow for enough articulation to stuff your tire up, use up most of the shock lenght and keep your body relatively level. from what i am seeing in your photo, your suspension is binding and that's why everything looks the way it does. now, if you're happy with what you got, that's great, i really am happy for you. my point in bringing any of this up in the first place was to inform people that I (me personally) wouldn't be satisfied with this and would have expected a lot more from a long arm kit. but as i said, this is just me.
I am aware of that fact, but the picture was taken with my Jeep way off camber. That rock was on a hill with all sides sloping away from the rock. My right front was down hill which is why the body was so far off center and not stuffing the rear tire. Besides, it wasnt half the shock shaft, it was less then 2" and about the same amout of room I had to the bumpstops, not to mention I still had the rear swaybar fighting my flexing ability in that pic.




keep in mind, these head on shots are of my JK with short arms and even though the camera angle is low, you can still see that the top my 37" tire is sitting at about the pinch seam if not a bit lower.

again, please know this is not personal and i'm not trying to get you to defend the RE kit - i'm just pointing out what i see.
Those are some great shots of your Jeep!
Yes I can see how your droping a 37" below the pinch seam and mines only a 35" to almost the same spot, but now your starting to compare apples to oranges here, of course yours is going to flex more then mine, you have those pretty long travel coilovers and I do not :bleh:

After all, I never came on here to compare mine to yours, I came on here to let others know that the pic you posted of the RE LA kit is not showing what it can really do, and that something is not right with that Jeep. The RE short arm does not flex more then the LA kit like your pictures are showing.



All I know is that my arms are not binding and limiting my flex, its the shocks and coils. I know this from when I installed the kit in my garage, I tested the flex with no coils or shocks, and I installed the uncompressed coils while flexing it before putting on the shocks, so I have a pretty good idea of how much further the arms will flex :D



his shots look great for the RE long arm, the shot on the rock looks to be completely off camber, hence why the jeep is not as centered

the design of the RE kit is the best in the way it attaches to the frame, highest clearance possible ( that is very attractive for those of us who dont like to replace crossmembers every season

Thanks,
Yep, the picture of mine on the rock is way off camber as I mentioned above.

The design of the RE kit is one of the reasons why I got it, I really like how it attaches to the frame with nothing hanging below it to catch on rocks :)


For a long arm vs long arm comparison, this is a picture of AdamORW's JK with a FT long arm kit. It a very good example of what WOL is trying to articulate.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj270/adamorw/Rubicon%20July%2008/IMG_1227.jpg

More info: http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=49840

If I remember correctly, he is using 14" travel shocks.

I understand what WOL is trying to say, but If I had 14" travel shocks, mine would drop that far too....look how far his front coil is falling out of the seat...about 2.5" amost enough to remove the coil on the trail :)

I still have the RE shocks that came with my kit and my coils only unseat about .25" which is only enough to wiggle it around, not take it out :D

[jeepik]

its simple

lower mounting point will allow the tire to be lower for more appearance of flex


i believe Mel posted pics of the evo lever with the RE kit and with the full traction kit, both looked like flexing monsters

the rear mounting point on the FT kit for the rear arms is a good 2 inches lower then RE's tucked up mount

[Eracer76]

well obviously, he's on a rock and on a slight slope. however, IF he had better flex, his jeep would be more balanced and stable. as it is, this photo makes his jeep look very tippy. or, at least, that's how i'm seeing it.
The picture may make it look tippy, but it wasnt at all...
Better flex in that off camber situation, would not have made it anymore balanced then it was. If my Jeep didnt have flex, it would have pulled a tire off the ground and tipped over, but it didnt, it still had all 4 on the ground.



i will still contend that my short arm kit offers better flex than the RE long arm kit and any 4-link long arm kit would offer substantially better flex than would the RE long arm kit. unfortunately, not liking certain features of kit made by other companies won't make the RE long arm kit flex any better.
Again, of course yours flexes more then the stock RE LA kit, you have COILOVERS :D
Give me a set of coilovers and I'll show you how far it can flex.....
Or maybe I'll just have to remove my shocks, drive up my RTI ramp and let the coils fall out, all to show you guys how far it can really go :rotflmao1:

[wayoflife]

Mabe he got the wrong shocks sent with his kit or something?
We've all seen stranger things happen before..

agreed and i was just going off of what i was told by the owner of the jeep. if something were wrong, it wouldn't be the first time as you have stated. :crazyeyes:

Yes Im using the shocks that came with my kit.
My tires do drop below the pinch seam which is covered up by my rock rails that hang down almost to the bottom of the frame.

really? i just looked again and tried taking into account for the rocker guards but i'm still not seeing it or maybe it's just sitting at the pinch seam. perhaps a different pic would be needed to demostrate this.

Yes, Ive seen 37's drop below this point too, but only when using extra long travel shocks or coilovers, and not with shocks out of the lift kit box.

that is odd because i have not seen this. in fact, time and time again, i have seen wheels hanging in the air when they should have been on the ground. but, that's just been what i have been seeing on the trail and on more than one JK that has the RE kit.

I am aware of that fact, but the picture was taken with my Jeep way off camber. That rock was on a hill with all sides sloping away from the rock. My right front was down hill which is why the body was so far off center and not stuffing the rear tire. Besides, it wasnt half the shock shaft, it was less then 2" and about the same amout of room I had to the bumpstops, not to mention I still had the rear swaybar fighting my flexing ability in that pic.

looking at your pic again, i compared the amount of shock that was exposed on the driver side and compared it to the passenger side and unless you have really short shocks, i still feel that i'm seeing close to half of what is showing on the passenger side. am i really wrong on this? also, i understand what you are saying and maybe the photo you used is not the best example of the RE's flex.

Those are some great shots of your Jeep!
Yes I can see how your droping a 37" below the pinch seam and mines only a 35" to almost the same spot, but now your starting to compare apples to oranges here, of course yours is going to flex more then mine, you have those pretty long travel coilovers and I do not :bleh:

but the whole point of this conversation, what started it all was that with coilovers and short arms, you could achieve as much flex if not more than what you could with a long arm kit and more so that you could achieve with an RE long arm kit. this made me question the need to go long arm at all. certanily, i have more flex, more clearance and a great ride and all for about the same price as what you paid for your RE kit.

After all, I never came on here to compare mine to yours, I came on here to let others know that the pic you posted of the RE LA kit is not showing what it can really do, and that something is not right with that Jeep. The RE short arm does not flex more then the LA kit like your pictures are showing.

that's fair and i understand. for what it's worth, i did some checking and determined that the pic of the short arm kit had 33's. not exactly a fair comparison.

All I know is that my arms are not binding and limiting my flex, its the shocks and coils. I know this from when I installed the kit in my garage, I tested the flex with no coils or shocks, and I installed the uncompressed coils while flexing it before putting on the shocks, so I have a pretty good idea of how much further the arms will flex :D

if you insist. you do know that RE themselves will be the first to admit otherwise, right... that their kit won't flex as well as a 4-link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40RReTuJJto

I understand what WOL is trying to say, but If I had 14" travel shocks, mine would drop that far too....

honestly, even with longer shocks, i just can't see how that would be possible.

[wayoflife]

its simple

lower mounting point will allow the tire to be lower for more appearance of flex


i believe Mel posted pics of the evo lever with the RE kit and with the full traction kit, both looked like flexing monsters

the rear mounting point on the FT kit for the rear arms is a good 2 inches lower then RE's tucked up mount

sorry, it's not that simple and if you talk to mel himself like i have, he will tell you the truth about just how much flex you really get with the RE long arm kit vs. the FT kit and with both having the evo lever setup.

[jeepik]

good to see a neutral debate here

[wayoflife]

Again, of course yours flexes more then the stock RE LA kit, you have COILOVERS :D

and going back to my original point, why get something like an RE long arm kit when you could go this route instead? :yup:

Give me a set of coilovers and I'll show you how far it can flex.....
Or maybe I'll just have to remove my shocks, drive up my RTI ramp and let the coils fall out, all to show you guys how far it can really go :rotflmao1:

are you really suggesting that your coils would fall out before your tire leaves the ground? that is something i would like to see. if you do it, please use a 30° ramp and document it scientifically. :yup:

[TeraFlex]

http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/8947/2032649250102496289S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2032649250102496289ZmtdtA)http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/16077/2901359470102496289S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2901359470102496289uukiXc)
http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/40117/2253235670102496289S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2253235670102496289BhbdNL)
Notice how far my 37's drop in the front and stuffed in the rear fenderwell. Now if I had the Evo Levers on it :drool:.

[TYCOON12]

:popcorn: hehh heh......

[TSmith0820]

So I'm now sold on going with a 4 link long arm kit. But which one? I know FT makes a killer kit but there are others on the market. I will certainly go with coil-overs on the front but I don't know if I will ever go with the rear (evo-lever) set up. Others I am considering are BDS and Teraflex. Anyone seen these long arm kits in person. The TF kit looks like the upper arms are a little on the short side (from what I remember of seeing a pic). Suggestions? Other thoughts? Donations?

Ty

[Piginajeep]

You cant go wrong with any ones you mentioned,
i've rode in a FT long arm, its very smooth. Its very heavy duty and it'll take a beating...

With the two door, your really going to feel the ride smooth out.

[TeraFlex]

The TF kit looks like the upper arms are a little on the short side (from what I remember of seeing a pic). Suggestions? Other thoughts? Donations?

Ty
They are not as long as the lowers that's for sure. But you can tell from my pics that the kit works awesome!!

[whpony96]

OK one really nice feature of the Teraflex kits are that when you want to upgrade and go higher or change from a short arm kit to a longarm kit you can purchase only the parts you NEED to upgrade you don't have to go and buy a ENTIRE kit and end up with a bunch of duplicate parts you don't need!

As for flex look at this..... This is my 2008 Rubicon Unlimited with the Teraflex 3" lift with the stock wheels and tires. This kit is using the stock arms! That's impressive! Now imagine what it will do with a Long Arm kit....



I now have 35" and quite simply I could not be happier! Looks good rides great much better than stock. It's is a great feeling that when I want to upgrade down the road. I can with just the parts I NEED...

I have to say Eddie that I tip my hat to you for taking that big of a step. There is only one downfall...Your now locked in.. There is no changing back, and your choices are now limited. But that is what makes Jeeps so much fun we can all go in different directions and still have the same passion in the end!:ya:

[Evolution]

OK one really nice feature of the Teraflex kits are that when you want to upgrade and go higher or change from a short arm kit to a longarm kit you can purchase only the parts you NEED to upgrade you don't have to go and buy a ENTIRE kit and end up with a bunch of duplicate parts you don't need!

As for flex look at this..... This is my 2008 Rubicon Unlimited with the Teraflex 3" lift with the stock wheels and tires. This kit is using the stock arms! That's impressive! Now imagine what it will do with a Long Arm kit....



I now have 35" and quite simply I could not be happier! Looks good rides great much better than stock. It's is a great feeling that when I want to upgrade down the road. I can with just the parts I NEED...

I have to say Eddie that I tip my hat to you for taking that big of a step. There is only one downfall...Your now locked in.. There is no changing back, and your choices are now limited. But that is what makes Jeeps so much fun we can all go in different directions and still have the same passion in the end!

Curious to know what you mean by limited? With the EVO System you are actually NOT limited by any means. Eddie along with others that have our system still have the exact same ability to switch from a Short Arm to Long Arm or vice versa (of any manufacturer, except Rancho Long Arm) as they would with any standard system.

Furthermore, we think that by adding the EVO system, your limitations are actually greatly decreased as a hole.

With the addition of the EVO system, the owner can adjust ride height without the need of purchasing any additional parts, simply requires standard tools. In addtion, with the EVO system the owner has practially infinite possibilities of available spring rates. Standard systems give you a box of springs and that is your choice. Also with the addition of the EVO system there is the ability to infinitely adjust the damping ratio of the shock abosorber to your liking, stiffer, harder etc.

To my knowledge there are no other systems out there that give you both of these possibilities and the ability to run you favorite manufactures suspension system of any kind, long arm or short, or stock control arms for that matter, not to mention the additional on and off road performance.

To us, this "is what makes Jeeps so much fun we can all go in different directions and still have the same passion in the end!"

All in one system!!!

EVO...

[QKSILVER]

Well said EVO. Now if it wasn't such a long drive from Michigan to California. :cool:

[ColinW]

For a long arm vs long arm comparison, this is a picture of AdamORW's JK with a FT long arm kit. It a very good example of what WOL is trying to articulate.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj270/adamorw/Rubicon%20July%2008/IMG_1227.jpg

More info: http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=49840

If I remember correctly, he is using 14" travel shocks.



see, now that's FLEX!! :thumbsup:


I understand what WOL is trying to say, but If I had 14" travel shocks, mine would drop that far too....look how far his front coil is falling out of the seat...about 2.5" amost enough to remove the coil on the trail :)

I still have the RE shocks that came with my kit and my coils only unseat about .25" which is only enough to wiggle it around, not take it out :D

Wayoflife, will you please address this issue? The picture sure seems to be a bit deceiving when you consider what Eracer has said.

[Piginajeep]

he's wheeling all weekend..

[bly109]

Wayoflife, will you please address this issue? The picture sure seems to be a bit deceiving when you consider what Eracer has said.

I think when that pic was originally posted, somebody pointed out the coil and he said they put limiting straps in after that weekend. :thinking: I'll se if I can find it.

Edit: Here is the original thread. He said he threw a coil because the lower retainers busted, thats why he added limiting straps.

http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=49840

[NGINIER]

you guys are incredible...:rollingeyes:

I understand where WOL is coming from in the design of a 4-link versus the Radius arm. It is easy to design a radius arm that wont flex as well. However, depending on the geometry of these arms, it is very possible that you could get a radius arm to flex extremely well before the arms bind up. This seems to be what RE has done. Their kit flexes very well as I have seen it in person, and even longer shocks would not bind up this suspension as ERACER has said. They also have rear mounts that mount higher than other 4-arm kits and this is why I purchased this kit over others. That and that I have seen many users express their concern with FT customer service(I hear that TF does a very good job though:thumbsup:, hope to see TF in MOAB over Thanksgiving:yup:) The coil over evo kit seems to flex very well and looks great on that ramp...

WOL mentioned that TF has bent arms in the rear that give better clearance but I am more concerned with the mounts.

I also talked to plenty of local shops and for some reason, they all loved the RE kit...

Nice comment on the neutral debate, this is crazy guys...

[chuck45]

[QUOTE=NGINIER;663824]I also talked to plenty of local shops and for some reason, they all loved the RE kit...
QUOTE]

I encountered the same thing from shops relative to RE. I was told that the kits were complete, they installed nicely, didn't cause comebacks that cost them money and that customers were happy with them. A further reason from several shops was that they handled the weight of bumpers, winches etc very well. I'm happy with my 3.5" RE lift.

[505JK]

For a long arm vs long arm comparison, this is a picture of AdamORW's JK with a FT long arm kit. It a very good example of what WOL is trying to articulate.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj270/adamorw/Rubicon%20July%2008/IMG_1227.jpg

More info: http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=49840

If I remember correctly, he is using 14" travel shocks.

I found a decent counter pic with an RE LA kit.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh122/505coyote/anm_sized.jpg

Flex is pretty good. The spring is still seated and it's hard to tell how much further that front tire would drop had it not been contacting the ground but it looks like it flexed below the pinch seem. I'd say 35" tires but that's just a guess.

Edit - It's Joemauma's rig with 37's.

[SouthSideSteve]

I can't believe there are 11 pages of people trying to suggest a radius arm setup will flex as well as a 4 link given all things equal. RE's kit is good, and will flex. Just not as well as a similar 4 link system. There really isn't any room for arguement here, its pretty much obvious fact.



Awesome kit Mel, coilovers give me a stiffy. The flex is insane, as it should be.

Can't hide money, Eddie. :ya:

[wayoflife]

Wayoflife, will you please address this issue? The picture sure seems to be a bit deceiving when you consider what Eracer has said.

i'm not 100% sure what you are wanting me to address. clearly, his long arm kit is not preventing him from "dropping out" as RE states they do not want to happen and "limiting straps" would address this - again, something that RE states they do not what to use on their kit - i.e. why their long arm is a "constrained system". remember, these are their words and not mine.

I understand where WOL is coming from in the design of a 4-link versus the Radius arm. It is easy to design a radius arm that wont flex as well. However, depending on the geometry of these arms, it is very possible that you could get a radius arm to flex extremely well before the arms bind up. This seems to be what RE has done.

well, maybe possible but as i have stated time and time again and what you can hear for yourself, NOT what RE did and on purpose. please watch the video below and hear it directly from them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40RReTuJJto

Their kit flexes very well as I have seen it in person, and even longer shocks would not bind up this suspension as ERACER has said. They also have rear mounts that mount higher than other 4-arm kits and this is why I purchased this kit over others.

yes, it does flex and way more than stock but from what i have seen, not as much as a 4-link setup and not as much as i am seeing with my short arms and coilovers. this was something that i found surprising and why i felt the need to comment on it and that's it. as i have said time and time again, after seeing what I, as in ME, could get out of my short arms and coilovers, i simply didn't know if long arms were really something that i felt was necessary especially being that i can currently get more flex (something that is important to me) than a long arm kit with radius arms like RE makes. certainly, i already had good adjustable short arms and for the cost of the RE kit, choosing to go with the EVO coilovers simply seemed like a better options. of course, this is just my opinion. :yup:

That and that I have seen many users express their concern with FT customer service(I hear that TF does a very good job though:thumbsup:, hope to see TF in MOAB over Thanksgiving:yup:) The coil over evo kit seems to flex very well and looks great on that ramp...

and that is a perfectly good reason why someone like yourself should have made the decision that you made. however, just because a company has customer service that concerns you, it doesn't change the fact that a 4-link design will offer more flex than a radius arm setup.

WOL mentioned that TF has bent arms in the rear that give better clearance but I am more concerned with the mounts.

have you seen their mounts? up front, the lower control arm mounts sit no lower than the stock cross member just like the RE kit. in the rear, they may be welded on the bottom of the frame but they at least they don't require you to hack the body mounts on the frame. in some cases, maybe these mounts aren't needed but being that jeep put them there, i would have to think they do serve a purpose.

I also talked to plenty of local shops and for some reason, they all loved the RE kit...

Nice comment on the neutral debate, this is crazy guys...

the RE kit IS a quality product and i have never stated otherwise and of all the long arm kits, it's probably one of the easier ones to install. having said that, what does a local shop loving this kit have anything to do with the amount of flex it offers?

I encountered the same thing from shops relative to RE. I was told that the kits were complete, they installed nicely, didn't cause comebacks that cost them money and that customers were happy with them. A further reason from several shops was that they handled the weight of bumpers, winches etc very well. I'm happy with my 3.5" RE lift.

the 3.5" kit is a great kit. i have seen it on the trail and would recommend it to anyone interested in it. however, as great as it is, it still doesn't change the fact that the long arm kit with its radius arms simply does not flex as well as a 4-link setup or as well as a JK with short arms and EVO coilovers. now, just to be clear, this does not mean that the RE kit doesn't offer a lot of flex, just not as much - or, at least, not as much as i, personally would prefer.

I found a decent counter pic with an RE LA kit.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh122/505coyote/anm_sized.jpg

Flex is pretty good. The spring is still seated and it's hard to tell how much further that front tire would drop had it not been contacting the ground but it looks like it flexed below the pinch seem. I'd say 35" tires but that's just a guess.

Edit - It's Joemauma's rig with 37's.

it's a great shot and from what i can see, it looks like he's using a set of longer fox shocks to achieve the increased amount of flex. again, my original point, the one that got this discussion going is that after i had my EVO coilovers installed and got to test them out on the trail, i simply started to question the necesity of a long arm kit especially being that i could achieve just as much flex if not more than an RE long arm kit which has radius arms. certanily, i already had good adjustable short arms and the cost of an RE kit with longer fox shocks is considerable. for the money, i personally think that maybe, just maybe, going coilover might be the better way to go. but hey, that's just me.

I can't believe there are 11 pages of people trying to suggest a radius arm setup will flex as well as a 4 link given all things equal. RE's kit is good, and will flex. Just not as well as a similar 4 link system. There really isn't any room for arguement here, its pretty much obvious fact.

Awesome kit Mel, coilovers give me a stiffy. The flex is insane, as it should be.

thank you. i was just to give up on this thread and let people believe whatever it is they want to believe. :crazyeyes:

as mentioned, the RE kit is a quality product and will flex - just not as well as a smiliar 4-link setup and from what i can see, right out of the box, not any better than a short arm setup with the EVO coilovers.

Can't hide money, Eddie. :ya:

:blush:

[ColinW]

i'm not 100% sure what you are wanting me to address. clearly, his long arm kit is not preventing him from "dropping out" as RE states they do not want to happen and "limiting straps" would address this - again, something that RE states they do not what to use on their kit - i.e. why their long arm is a "constrained system". remember, these are their words and not mine.

I'd just like you to address how the flex had from this kit, and which is shown in this pic, can be beneficial when his coils are about to fall out of the upper perch/bumpstop tower. If here were sticking his drivers side tire in anything deeper or his passenger rear were resting on anything lower, it would mean bad things if his spring fell out and he drove forward. Ok..another member mentioned he finally added on limiting straps, but if he had done so beforehand and had gone through the exact place as shown in the picture, wouldn't his drivers side tire then be in the air? That's what I mean by the picture seems a bit deceptive when you say "now that's FLEX!!!" without the kit showing everything it needs (limiting straps or coil retainers) to function properly and safely while comparing it to a kit such as the RE which doesn't need any add-ons.

[wayoflife]

I'd just like you to address how the flex had from this kit, and which is shown in this pic, can be beneficial when his coils are about to fall out of the upper perch/bumpstop tower. If here were sticking his drivers side tire in anything deeper or his passenger rear were resting on anything lower, it would mean bad things if his spring fell out and he drove forward. Ok..another member mentioned he finally added on limiting straps, but if he had done so beforehand and had gone through the exact place as shown in the picture, wouldn't his drivers side tire then be in the air? That's what I mean by the picture seems a bit deceptive when you say "now that's FLEX!!!" without the kit showing everything it needs (limiting straps or coil retainers) to function properly and safely while comparing it to a kit such as the RE which doesn't need any add-ons.

"deceptive"? LOL!! i'm sorry but my point was that the 4-link long arm setup will ALLOW you to do this at all. in my mind, i'm thinking if he had coilovers, he could flex this much and still have it function properly and safely. i keep hearing from others that the RE kit would do the same given the same circumstances but i have yet to see it - this is the reason why the RE kit doesn't need any add-ons - their kit is a "constrained system" and designed to limit the amount of flex you can get and on purpose.

[wayoflife]

BTW - WOLette just added Part-2 here:

Off Road Evolution Rear EVO Lever System (http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=53305)

:cool:

[505JK]

I'd just like you to address how the flex had from this kit, and which is shown in this pic, can be beneficial when his coils are about to fall out of the upper perch/bumpstop tower. If here were sticking his drivers side tire in anything deeper or his passenger rear were resting on anything lower, it would mean bad things if his spring fell out and he drove forward. Ok..another member mentioned he finally added on limiting straps, but if he had done so beforehand and had gone through the exact place as shown in the picture, wouldn't his drivers side tire then be in the air? That's what I mean by the picture seems a bit deceptive when you say "now that's FLEX!!!" without the kit showing everything it needs (limiting straps or coil retainers) to function properly and safely while comparing it to a kit such as the RE which doesn't need any add-ons.

I think the point is that the 4 link long arm suspension doesn't bind on it's own and so it's limits are further than the radius arm setup. So if you want to put in extended travel shocks, like was done on the pictured your asking about, then you can and the suspension will let you take advantage of that. The trade off is what you see with the coils almost falling out.

Of course I'm just trying to figure this out like you are.

It would be good to see at what point the radius arm suspension does bind up at. If you put the same shocks on the RE fit, the coils might fall out too:dontknow2:?

Edit - Man, I must type really slow. WOL's post wasn't there when I started typing.:thinking:

[wayoflife]

It would be good to see at what point the radius arm suspension does bind up at. If you put the same shocks on the RE fit, the coils might fall out too:dontknow2:?

if i recall correctly, the joints on the RE kit start to bind with as little as 7" of droop. does this mean that it won't go further than that? not at all, you can force your axle to droop more but at the cost to the bushings - given enough force, the mounts they are attached to as well.

[Major Ho]

if you want, i can post up the complete interview from sema of them trying to sell the idea of why little to no flex is what you want.



as mentioned, the RE kit is a quality product and will flex - just not as well as a smiliar 4-link setup and from what i can see, right out of the box, not any better than a short arm setup with the EVO coilovers.
:blush:

Eddie, luv ya and all but I just wanted to come in and bust your chops a little :wink::harhar:

IMO, I think a bunch of people are just up in arms because of the above statement and people feeling the need to defend RE.

Me, I'm just enjoying seeing all these swank set ups. How much is one of my kidneys worth in todays market?

Wish I had gone long arm to begin with :(

[wayoflife]

Eddie, luv ya and all but I just wanted to come in and bust your chops a little :wink::harhar:

IMO, I think a bunch of people are just up in arms because of the above statement and people feeling the need to defend RE.

Me, I'm just enjoying seeing all these swank set ups. How much is one of my kidneys worth in todays market?

Wish I had gone long arm to begin with :(

:eek2: chops busted!! :rotflmao1:

seriously, i hear what you're saying and hope you and everyone can understand that i am simply stating my opinions and as much as possible, trying to back them up with proof. was my "little to no flex" comment an exaggeration? maybe to you but that's the way i, as in me personally, see it. certainly, you don't have to like the things i say or even agree with them and as you can see with all the people who have gotten "up in arms" and felt the need to "defend RE", they all have their opinions as well and i welcome it. :yup:

(BTW: i have edited the post in question to more accurately depict what was being said.)

[wayoflife]

i hope this isn't too much to ask but would it be possible to agree to disagree about the whole RE long arm kit thing and get back on topic? i mean, if you love your RE long arm kit, wonderful. if you enjoy the flex it gives you, even better - i'm sincerely happy for you.

since it seems to have been lost, this thread was originally created to highlight the Off Road Evolution EVO coilover system and what it can offer you even with a good set of short arms. Once again, based on what I have seen, it is MY OPINION that it offers just as much flex as most long arm kits and in MY OPINION, more so than a long arm kit with radius arms right out of the box. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION and i have done what i can to try to back it up with what i consider to be the best possible photos i could take to enforce it. certainly, you don't have to agree with it or even like it. :no2:

as a reminder, we just posted Part-2 of the EVO system install and it can now be seen here:

Off Road Evolution Rear EVO Lever System (http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.php?t=53305)

:cool:

[ChewyGranola]

Ok, on topic question. How much space is there between the EVO lever rear and the trunk? I have the Woods tub and want to know if I would have to rework that if I decided to go this route.

Just realized that I should probably be posting this in the part 2 section so I guess it is not strictly "on topic".

[wayoflife]

Ok, on topic question. How much space is there between the EVO lever rear and the trunk? I have the Woods tub and want to know if I would have to rework that if I decided to go this route.

Just realized that I should probably be posting this in the part 2 section so I guess it is not strictly "on topic".

LOL!! that's okay. in answer to your question, let me ask you how much further down does your trunk drop down below stock? let me know and i can check for you.

[ChewyGranola]

LOL!! that's okay. in answer to your question, let me ask you how much further down does your trunk drop down below stock? let me know and i can check for you.

The tub goes about 3/4s of an inch past the sway bar.

[ChewyGranola]

Looking at the pics at first it was kinda hard to tell but it now looks to me that the tub would be in the way of the shocks.

[jayrav]

Quick question. Does the EVO-Flex system work with 3" lift kits?

[JK-Fire]

Nice set up there WOL. you have one heck of a beast!!

[wayoflife]

The tub goes about 3/4s of an inch past the sway bar.

hey ChewyGranola, i apologize for missing this the first time around but in answer to your question, i have about 5" of space from the base of the factory trunk to the EVO lever frame. or, if it helps, the frame attaches to the rear cross member and slopes downward so anything below that is free and clear.

[wayoflife]

Quick question. Does the EVO-Flex system work with 3" lift kits?

yes. the adjustable short control arms on a 3" lift will be exactly the same as a 4" lift and will work perfectly.

[Ctimrun]

I am gonna go break open my piggy bank!

[wayoflife]

I am gonna go break open my piggy bank!

LOL!! trust me, you won't regret it :yup:

[jayrav]

yes. the adjustable short control arms on a 3" lift will be exactly the same as a 4" lift and will work perfectly.

My lift kit is from Teraflex but the control arms that I have are the Rock Runners from Superlift. Will this make any difference?

[wayoflife]

My lift kit is from Teraflex but the control arms that I have are the Rock Runners from Superlift. Will this make any difference?

so long as the control arms are adjustable and have the ability to allow for more flex, you will be just fine.

[keithro]

I see that one of you are running 12" and one 14" coilovers but are they 2" or 2.5"?? I'm guessing 2" since there was already some cutting required to clearance for the coilovers. How about some info on spring rates you guys are running. Thanks.

[keithro]

I see that one of you are running 12" and one 14" coilovers but are they 2" or 2.5"?? I'm guessing 2" since there was already some cutting required to clearance for the coilovers. How about some info on spring rates you guys are running. Thanks.

Nevermind, I got the info from the pictures. Thanks.