Long Distance Dog Hiking

[DavidEllzey]

We own an Australian Cattle Dog who we are training for long distance hiking. He is 10 months old and just today he did a 17 mile hike with 4,000' total elevation gain. We have been slowly working his mileage/difficulty up since he was 4 months old. So far, he only wears the pack harness without packs, or in a few cases with empty packs. We plan to start introducing weight on him after he gets over a year old.

Our goal is to get him up to multiple 25 mile days, carrying 1/4 his body weight (he is 50lbs) at the trailhead. So far he seems to be coming a long fine but I never mind a little advice.

Anyone here have any experience working with training back country trail dogs?

Dave

[ronjenx]

We own an Australian Cattle Dog who we are training for long distance hiking. He is 10 months old and just today he did a 17 mile hike with 4,000' total elevation gain. We have been slowly working his mileage/difficulty up since he was 4 months old. So far, he only wears the pack harness without packs, or in a few cases with empty packs. We plan to start introducing weight on him after he gets over a year old.

Our goal is to get him up to multiple 25 mile days, carrying 1/4 his body weight (he is 50lbs) at the trailhead. So far he seems to be coming a long fine but I never mind a little advice.

Anyone here have any experience working with training back country trail dogs?
Dave
No, but I have to say, that sounds like a lot of fun. And good for you, too. I never met a dog that didn't love to hike with its owner.

[Shortbuss]

I dont have any real good advice for ya, but we have a Rotty, Husky, Shepard cross who is insane. We do lots of day hikes and mountain bike trips with her. A 20mile mountain bike run is only getting her started. Next year I would like to start back packing with her and doing the same as you.

Good luck let us know how it turns out.

[Jeb]

I'm unfamiliar with this- what does he carry? (Or what would he carry?) Your gear?

[Sum_Devl]

We own an Australian Cattle Dog who we are training for long distance hiking. He is 10 months old and just today he did a 17 mile hike with 4,000' total elevation gain. We have been slowly working his mileage/difficulty up since he was 4 months old. So far, he only wears the pack harness without packs, or in a few cases with empty packs. We plan to start introducing weight on him after he gets over a year old.

Our goal is to get him up to multiple 25 mile days, carrying 1/4 his body weight (he is 50lbs) at the trailhead. So far he seems to be coming a long fine but I never mind a little advice.

Anyone here have any experience working with training back country trail dogs?

Dave

I don't have any personal experience with this, but it sounds like a real good start to me. From what I know about the breed of dog you have they are perfect for back country hikes. I have been looking into the same thing, but I was considering getting a Bernese Mountain Dog as my hiking partner, we currently have a couple of lap dogs and I would like to get something a little bigger to serve as a good guard dog (I work nights and my wife is home alone)/trail partner.

I'm unfamiliar with this- what does he carry? (Or what would he carry?) Your gear?

I would imagine he would carry his own water,food, and anything else he may need.

[Hilldweller]

Along with the physical aspect, make sure that he's got good trail manners with other dogs, people, horses, etc. He has to be exceptionally well trained to voice and/or hand signals.
We do lots of camping and hiking with our pit bull mix; we schooled her at Wolfbrook (http://www.wolfbrook.com/) before attempting any off-leash activities. We also carry a boatload of liability insurance, just in case.

fwiw, as a breed, the Aussie cattle dog is usually better with humans than other smallish animals. They make the best guard dogs and respond to bite-work very well. They're even more protective of their owners than German Shepherds.
But they like to fight with other dogs...

[tomb raider]

Sounds like you are doing the right thing. As stated above very important that he has good trail manners.

[DavidEllzey]

I'm unfamiliar with this- what does he carry? (Or what would he carry?) Your gear?

Zach will carry water if the section is dry (otherwise he loves spring and snow melt fed streams) he own food, trail treats (usually beef jerky), booties and any other dog related gear.

I haven't done the math yet to find out how many days of food he will be able to carry.

Here he is at 5 months old with empty packs:
http://my.project-jk.com/data/500/medium/006StylingDog.jpg

Dave

[DavidEllzey]

I don't have any personal experience with this, but it sounds like a real good start to me. From what I know about the breed of dog you have they are perfect for back country hikes. I have been looking into the same thing, but I was considering getting a Bernese Mountain Dog as my hiking partner, we currently have a couple of lap dogs and I would like to get something a little bigger to serve as a good guard dog (I work nights and my wife is home alone)/trail partner.

The Bernese is a beautiful animal but you might find him too large for extended hikes. Larger breeds consume so much food that it becomes difficult past a few days, on the other hand I think it would be perfect to guard your home and wife.

Dave

[justinstoffregen]

In my experience, loaded or not, a dog with access to h20 and snacks will out do u or me with no training in almost any terrain.

[DavidEllzey]

Along with the physical aspect, make sure that he's got good trail manners with other dogs, people, horses, etc. He has to be exceptionally well trained to voice and/or hand signals.
We do lots of camping and hiking with our pit bull mix; we schooled her at Wolfbrook (http://www.wolfbrook.com/) before attempting any off-leash activities. We also carry a boatload of liability insurance, just in case.

fwiw, as a breed, the Aussie cattle dog is usually better with humans than other smallish animals. They make the best guard dogs and respond to bite-work very well. They're even more protective of their owners than German Shepherds.
But they like to fight with other dogs...

So far he is being home schooled. This spring he will be taken an enrolled in classes. Too bad WolfBrook is so far away, they look great.

We haven't and never will take him off lead on the trail, no matter how remote we are. Not only is it incredibly irresponsible to any other hikers you may encounter but its dangerous to the dog too in the deep wilderness. They expend energy they will need, burn calories you may not have with you to replace, if water is in short supply they risk dehydration and the risk of injury is substantial. That said, we do take him off lead if we set up camp in a remote and well off trail spot. So far he responses to come, sit, down, stay and heel so it works out well.

Dave

[Hilldweller]

Sounds like a good dog.

They train PD work dogs at Wolfbrook; the owners are in my Mini Cooper club. It's a fun place.
You can probably find a similar facility near you --- just ask a cop where their dogs are trained.

The Wonder Mutt in camp; no making fun of the sweater. She's all muscle and it was cold...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v352/billpearlman/100_1050.jpg

[DavidEllzey]

A fine looking pooch you got there! Does she get to do much time on the trails?

Dave

(see, I didn't make any comments about the silly sweater)

[Hilldweller]

Not compared to my more youthful days; I think her longest hike has been 5 miles or so.
My arthritic knees won't go much farther ---- hence the trailer.
But she'd be game for it. She'll play fetch until she literally drops. And she'll sit silent as a rock when she comes up on an elk.
But she chases bicycles like Zeus throws thunderbolts; gotta cure her of that...

[DavidEllzey]

But she chases bicycles like Zeus throws thunderbolts; gotta cure her of that...

Mine has issues with other dogs, definitely not a dog friendly dog. At least not yet. He is getting better and we have plans in the near future to address his dog aggressiveness.

Dave

[Hilldweller]

Mine has issues with other dogs, definitely not a dog friendly dog. At least not yet. He is getting better and we have plans in the near future to address his dog aggressiveness.

Dave
Yeah; that's important.
We worked with Jessi over the weekend with bicycles too. Finally got her to stop growling and chasing.
Need to follow up on it though.

[TripleJeep_99]

I used my Kheeshond to come out working in the field with me everyday when I was laying out Roads and Cutblocks in the field for our Forestry Company. I started him out at 3 months. We would be travelling about 10km/day on foot through rugged backcountry terrain. He was a great companion to have along in the bush.

How is your dog with Wildlife encounters (Deer, Moose, Bear, Cougar)????? Especially bears???? I know from experience some dogs will bring back a bear to the owners if they never had an encounter with a bear as they will run back with thier tails between it's leg and hide under the owners legs creating a greater danger for you.

I worked with my dog by having a leash with me and when I encountered a bear (without cubs) I had him on a leash and trained him to stay between me and the bear and bark. It took a few bear encounters but he would start to pace back and forth about 15 feet in front of me and between the bear and I. Also, as he got older he would only bark at bears, cougars and wolves to let me know I needed to be extra alert in the area.

Also, I trained him to walk along logs to cross creek gullies or areas of windthrown trees to make travelling easier for both (did not have to pack him). Also, I trained and got after him for chasing deer & especially moose as a hoof from a moose would kill him.

However, about 5 years ago, I lost my best dog I had....but he did defend me from a rather large and aggressive Grizzly Boar bear. He gave me time to escape from an attack and he did make it back to the truck...but had to be put down from internal injuries. Not to scare you or anything....but you should be prepared for the worst should your dog encounter a Bear or other aggressive wild animals during your travels in the backcountry.

[Hilldweller]

However, about 5 years ago, I lost my best dog I had....but he did defend me from a rather large and aggressive Grizzly Boar bear. He gave me time to escape from an attack and he did make it back to the truck...but had to be put down from internal injuries. Not to scare you or anything....but you should be prepared for the worst should your dog encounter a Bear or other aggressive wild animals during your travels in the backcountry.
That's sad.
Did you spray the bear?

So far Jessi hasn't seen any bears on the trail, just in the Jeep. I'm not sure how she'd react. She's cool with everything with a hoof and just sits and waits for me to tell her what to do. In our area the pigs are more of a threat than the little black bears; the pigs get BIG.

[TripleJeep_99]

That's sad.
Did you spray the bear?

So far Jessi hasn't seen any bears on the trail, just in the Jeep. I'm not sure how she'd react. She's cool with everything with a hoof and just sits and waits for me to tell her what to do. In our area the pigs are more of a threat than the little black bears; the pigs get BIG.


No, I did not spray the bear. My dog "BEAR" actually kept backing up as I called him....but keeping an eye on the Grizzly. The Grizzly faked charged and swipped at "Bear" but he stood his ground pretty good by jumping off to the side to avoid the swipe. Also, I was over 15 meters away from the bear to long of a shot for bear spray. However, I did shoot off 2 bear bangers....but this Grizzly was not going anywhere!!!

Then the Grizzly took charge after my dog and the last I saw was him going over a small ridge and I heard some scrapping and lots of barking. This was when I got my chance to high tail it out of there back to the truck. When I knew I was far enough away from the Grizzly..... I called for for a good 1/2 hour and BEAR finally hobbled out of the bush near the truck.

He had a few scratches and a chunk of hair missing at his right flank. He was having a hard time breathing. The bear severed his liver, kidney's and twisted his intestines so bad from the scrap that he only had so much time. It was sad to see him go....but he protected me to the end. My forest company was sad to see BEAR go and the forest area we developed where BEAR and I had the Grizzly encounter they named the main forestry road "Silver Bear road" after my dog. When I get home I will post a picture of the champ!

Even a few months before this incident he protected my daughter when she was 2 years old in our backyard. A Black bear came into the yard while my daughter was playing around her playhouse. BEAR went nuts barking and I came running out and there he was circling my daughter and barking to keep the black bear way. It took a bear banger to scare off the that black bear. However, it was great to see BEAR in action protecting my little girl.

[DavidEllzey]

Triple,

Zach is still too young to know for sure but his breed is supposed to hold their ground, described as "fearless and requires the handler to watch out for their safety". In other words, I expect him not to retreat but rather return on call. Remember we only have blacks down here.

He also seems to respect large game and treat it like they were horses. He becomes alert but only mildly interested unless they are close enough to be of possible danger. In regards to training I expect to have more difficulty with small game, I will be fighting instinct there as he will want to "hunt" squirrels, marmots and such. I'm working on that now.

The breed's durability and protectiveness was the reason we chose an ACD, my wife is still not comfortable around bears (even though we have had multiple uneventful encounters) and have Zach in our tent eases her fears.

Dave

[SONIC]

I dont know, personally id rather have my dog get behind me in case of a bear threat as opposed to staying between me and the bear. Im really a dog person though and id rather stand my chances with the bear than have my dog go after it. I have bear spray, the dog doesnt.

[DavidEllzey]

I dont know, personally id rather have my dog get behind me in case of a bear threat as opposed to staying between me and the bear. Im really a dog person though and id rather stand my chances with the bear than have my dog go after it. I have bear spray, the dog doesnt.

In theory at least, the dog isn't supposed to actually engage the bear but rather bark at it and make quick passes at a safe distance. Ultimately though, a good dog will attack anything that is attempting to harm its owners. It sucks but its what they are wired to do. Personally I would honor my dog if he gave his life protecting my wife.

Dave

[SONIC]

I suppose its different when the dog is protecting your wife. Then standing ground seems the right thing to do.

i have had my dog attack coyotes with me before and had one get killed doing it, but youre right they are wired to protect you.

[TripleJeep_99]

He also seems to respect large game and treat it like they were horses. He becomes alert but only mildly interested unless they are close enough to be of possible danger. In regards to training I expect to have more difficulty with small game, I will be fighting instinct there as he will want to "hunt" squirrels, marmots and such. I'm working on that now.



That is a good sign that he is alert when he encounters a large ungulates. This is sort of the steps BEAR took towards standing his ground with black and grizzly bears and barking to warn/alert me of the dangers around.

I know BEAR had issues with squirrels as well....his breed was Dutch Barge Dog and his duties on the boats were to kill rats. I just got after him and he slowly got out of the habit....but every once and awhile if the day was uneventful and he saw a squirrel he would chase after it.

Black bears can be just as aggressive as a Grizzly especially if they have cubs or you encounter them feeding. More cases though the blacks will retreat more than the Grizzly...just from experience. Also, I would suggest getting a bear bangers for your wife.....I have found 95% of the time a bear banger shot off will scare off black bears out of the area or up a tree.

Good luck with the training

[TripleJeep_99]

I dont know, personally id rather have my dog get behind me in case of a bear threat as opposed to staying between me and the bear. Im really a dog person though and id rather stand my chances with the bear than have my dog go after it. I have bear spray, the dog doesnt.

In theory it would be good....but when you are backing up away from the encounter....there is that chance you will trip over the dog creating an open opportunity for the bear to attack. Also, the dog has more agility to avoid the bear and can distract the bear as you back away from the encounter. Thus the reason I trained BEAR to stay in front of me.

[DavidEllzey]

Not to get too far off topic, we just were chatting with our breeder the other day and it appears that they have an unusually high availability of ACD puppies. If anyone is interested, you can look them up at www.jonversacds.com

Dave

[TripleJeep_99]

Here was my bush dog BEAR that was my companion and work partner while doing Cutblock and Road layout for my Forest Company.

BEAR - 2001-2004.5

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c245/BigBadMagnum99/386.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c245/BigBadMagnum99/403.jpg

[DavidEllzey]

RIP Bear, you did good.

Dave

[Hilldweller]

Triple,

Zach is still too young to know for sure but his breed is supposed to hold their ground, described as "fearless and requires the handler to watch out for their safety". In other words, I expect him not to retreat but rather return on call.
Dave
The police workdog training will work well on him then. We trained Jessi with a couple of master commands and did it all in German. The two most important: the one that get them to stop anything they're doing and the recall.
The beauty of it all is that the dogs love the training; it's fun.

[mcds99]

I didn't think a dog could go on a trail in a national park.

We got flack for having our Golden at Mt. Rushmore.

A dog in bear country is bear food, large preditors will attack and eat a dog.

[DavidEllzey]

I didn't think a dog could go on a trail in a national park.

We got flack for having our Golden at Mt. Rushmore.

A dog in bear country is bear food, large preditors will attack and eat a dog.

Correct, dogs are not allowed on trails in National Parks or Monuments, also most State Parks in California do not even allow dogs in the park. All National Forests (even designated wilderness areas) do allow dogs on trails however.

As always, dogs are required to be kept on a leash, no more than 6' in length.

Actually, it has been proven that dogs are a good deterrent for black bears. In places where black bears raid residential areas, the homes with dogs have a MUCH lower incident rate. Also I can tell you that last year was the first year we haven't had a black bear encounter, it was also the first year we hiked with a dog.

Dogs are great to have in camp to keep the marmots and pikas out of your food. Allowing you to store it up in a rock face or hang from a tree branch.

I imagine that a griz wouldn't bother with a dog unless it felt its territory or cubs were threatened, triple jeep could respond to hat better but I doubt they would hunt the dog. Mountain lions are definitely wired to avoid dogs, weird but go figure. I know that polar bear would hunt the dog and oddly enough, wolves will hunt domestic dogs. It is an odd world.

Dave

[TripleJeep_99]

A dog in bear country is bear food, large preditors will attack and eat a dog.


I have to agree with David's response NOT all dogs in bear country are bear food. Most Dogs can warn you of a bear that is in the area. Most bears that I have encountered with my last dog he scared off 99% of the bears just that 1% was either encountering a Sow with cubs or a angry bear that you disturbed him during his feeding or entering an area where he has stashed a dead animal (Grizzly Bears). Back to my point I have seen Akita's, Husky's, Shepards, Golden Lab's, Border Collie's & Kheeshond's put chase and fend off Black & Grizzly Bears & Cougars. It's only a few times that a Bear will attack a dog and I listed them above.

There is one Breed the Karelian Bear Dog that is strictly bred and will put a bear to flight or attack it with great pugnacity and will sacrifice its own life for its master. I am currently looking into this breed to have as a work partner in Forestry....however, I am waiting..... as these breeds are fairly unpredictible with small kids around and I am alittle leary with a 4 & 7 year old around.

http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/dog-pictures-breeders-puppies-rescue/karelian-bear-dog-pictures-breeders-puppies-rescue/pictures/karelian-bear-dog-0007.jpg

However, I am fond of the Kheeshond as they are a very kid friendly dog and a great protector of the family. I have been trying to get in contact with BEAR's breeder to get another Kheeshond from her.

[Hilldweller]

I didn't think a dog could go on a trail in a national park.

We got flack for having our Golden at Mt. Rushmore.It really depends upon the attraction.
In Smokey Mountain National Park they leave us alone as long as we've got her on a lead and we're not in the popular exhibit areas.
I've even walked around there on trails with rangers and they play with Jessi.

[sully151]

I have an 8 month old Australian Shepherd that I want to take camping and backpacking.

I am looking forward to some short trips this spring with him.

[wigsajumper]

Currently have a Cheasapeke / Brown Lab Mix named Ceasar that has done up to 15 miles in 2 days base to summit with ridge hiking before descent.

He carries all of his own food plus his Side kick (the GF's Pekense yes she hiked almost the whole thing also) and most of his water. Water is pretty plentiful in the Northeast so They get alot of filter pumped water and don't have to carry that much.

Best thing that I got for him was some paw protectors for summit climbing (granite does a number on his paws) and for winter hiking.

Luckily and with some training he doesn't respond to wildlife besides freezing and pointing. Except for frogs for some reason he goes bat nuts over them. About the only real issue that we have had with him was an incident with a coydog (local slang for dog coyote hybrid that is common around here). One came into the camp when the GF was still sleeping and Ceasar stood over/on her sleeping bag growling until I chased it out. The GF was squacking about waking up to an 80 pound dog standing on her.

In most of the national forests in this area you have to have dogs leashed and quiet in camp areas and popular trails. Once you are out of "high Impact zones" then they have to be under voice control. If they don't respond well then they have to stay leashed.

wigsajumper

[Hilldweller]

We encountered 4 bears over the weekend; Jessi growled and farted but didn't freak out. The bears were scared of us and bolted.
That makes a total of 7 bears for her and she's farted each time... ...I guess she's scared...?

[DavidEllzey]

We encountered 4 bears over the weekend; Jessi growled and farted but didn't freak out. The bears were scared of us and bolted.
That makes a total of 7 bears for her and she's farted each time... ...I guess she's scared...?

Awesome. I would think she was just really excited, not necessarily frightened.

Interesting that you even got to see the bears, my experience is that we see fewer bears with our dog around.

Dave

[TripleJeep_99]

We encountered 4 bears over the weekend; Jessi growled and farted but didn't freak out. The bears were scared of us and bolted.
That makes a total of 7 bears for her and she's farted each time... ...I guess she's scared...?


Sounds to me she is well trained around bears....growling and standing her ground. That's great the bears take off as well!!

[Hilldweller]

We stopped on the Res too and they had a stuffed bear in front of a store; she growled and farted --- seemed confused when it didn't move and got a little braver. Some snorting after that.

The bears that we've come across have all been sows and cubs. We ran into some hikers that warned us about a really big male but luckily didn't run into him.
They're all pretty hungry at this time of year...

[TripleJeep_99]

We stopped on the Res too and they had a stuffed bear in front of a store; she growled and farted --- seemed confused when it didn't move and got a little braver. Some snorting after that.

The bears that we've come across have all been sows and cubs. We ran into some hikers that warned us about a really big male but luckily didn't run into him.
They're all pretty hungry at this time of year...

Fall time of year is bad for bears....as they can be unpredictible especially if they did not get their winter fat on them. ...but I find the spring the worst....they are hungry after a long winter slumber and will be hungry for a while if nothing is really popping out for vegetation. Also, spring is when I usually see those nasty looking thin and hair falling off type bears that are just plan nasty and will do anything for a meal.....even if it's you.

Sounds to me you got yourself a well trained bear dog Hilldweller!!!:thumbsup:

[CATCHONE]

Wow British Columbia seems like the place to be if you want to hang out with your dog.

I used to take my German Shepard (Frank) to Joshua Tree National Monument (now Park). WE would stay off the main locations and do back country trails. We had 1 incident with a Mountain Lion but Frank scared him away and one really bad incident with cactus ,which eventually ended our trips to Joshua Tree.

The Rangers were very adiment about no dogs until they met Frank (he was very well trained and only barked in protect mode)

It is sad that more parks in California don't allow dogs.

I will try and post some pics of Frank in JT. He loved it there.

Good Luck with your training. I am sure your dog will do well. t sound like he is on his way already.

[CATCHONE]

Frank at Joshua Tree

[Hilldweller]

Sounds to me you got yourself a well trained bear dog Hilldweller!!!:thumbsup:
Yeah; but she's a retard.
We were hiking yesterday and I was looking for bear-sign. I found her on the side of the trail eating bear scat (again). :dontknow2: