First technician/general radio at minimum cost
05-22-2015, 06:43 AM
#1
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First technician/general radio at minimum cost
Hi all,
I'm sure this question has been asked in one way or another, but mine I think is slightly specific. My CB was like $50, and knowing very little about HAM radio hardware out there, I'm seeing prices for many mobile transceivers north of $1000.
First, the question: if I get a general license (will be getting a technician soon and then a general soon after, or both at the same time), which would be a good budget radio?
Second, my requirements: I don't know much yet about the HAM community or culture, but I do have two degrees in electrical engineering and a background in antenna design, so naturally this is a hobby I'd like to get into. I've got a cheap CB but would like a better communications platform. Once I'm done with my suspension and trust my jeep offroad, I plan to take it up into the Rockies where I have know expectation of T-Mobile coverage. So, really, I'd just like a reliable method of communication. I can figure out the antenna, SWR, etc. stuff, but I just don't know how much I need to spend to get a decent (new or used) transceiver which covers commonly used bands.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
I'm sure this question has been asked in one way or another, but mine I think is slightly specific. My CB was like $50, and knowing very little about HAM radio hardware out there, I'm seeing prices for many mobile transceivers north of $1000.
First, the question: if I get a general license (will be getting a technician soon and then a general soon after, or both at the same time), which would be a good budget radio?
Second, my requirements: I don't know much yet about the HAM community or culture, but I do have two degrees in electrical engineering and a background in antenna design, so naturally this is a hobby I'd like to get into. I've got a cheap CB but would like a better communications platform. Once I'm done with my suspension and trust my jeep offroad, I plan to take it up into the Rockies where I have know expectation of T-Mobile coverage. So, really, I'd just like a reliable method of communication. I can figure out the antenna, SWR, etc. stuff, but I just don't know how much I need to spend to get a decent (new or used) transceiver which covers commonly used bands.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
05-22-2015, 11:00 AM
#2
Complex Question
1 Contact your nearest HAM Radio Club and ask which radios they recommend for local operations. If there are several repeaters in your area, the answer will most likely be 2m/70cm. This is good for you because they are the most common bands used by Technicians, plus 2m/70cm radios are at the lower end of the cost scale which is what you are looking for as a new HAM.
2 By the nature of its design the Wrangler (JK/JKU) is a very poor radio support vehicle. It has a very poor ground plane/counterpoise characteristics which limits such long range bands as HF. That being said, the 2m/70cm bands are not as affected in this environment and you can plan on good performance as long as you are in range of a 2m/70cm repeater or two.
3 If you plan to go into the boonies - rough trails, extreme temps & lots of dust and/or snow&rain, you will need a well built powerful radio. That radio will not be cheap. That being said, it will not be in the $1,000 range either. I use, and recommend, the Yaesu FT-2900 2m transceiver. It is built like a brick outhouse, puts out 75W, and will cost you about $160 at HRO. You will also need an antenna, coax and wiring to your 12V battery. That will probably add $100 to your cost. Is there a downside to this radio? Yes, it is only single band (2m). It also doesn't include such features as DSTAR, GPS or APRS which will drive the price up. That being said, I have never used 70cm except on Field Day. BUT - in your area 70cm may be a common band, and that's why you have to get in touch with your local HAM Club.
4 You will no doubt have others who will respond to your question and recommend their favorite radios such as ICOM, Kenwood, ALINCO and several of the Chinese brands. They will all have pros and cons. Again, contact your local HAM Club and see what the recommend.
Lots of luck on your Tech and General tests ! !
W6PBR
2 By the nature of its design the Wrangler (JK/JKU) is a very poor radio support vehicle. It has a very poor ground plane/counterpoise characteristics which limits such long range bands as HF. That being said, the 2m/70cm bands are not as affected in this environment and you can plan on good performance as long as you are in range of a 2m/70cm repeater or two.
3 If you plan to go into the boonies - rough trails, extreme temps & lots of dust and/or snow&rain, you will need a well built powerful radio. That radio will not be cheap. That being said, it will not be in the $1,000 range either. I use, and recommend, the Yaesu FT-2900 2m transceiver. It is built like a brick outhouse, puts out 75W, and will cost you about $160 at HRO. You will also need an antenna, coax and wiring to your 12V battery. That will probably add $100 to your cost. Is there a downside to this radio? Yes, it is only single band (2m). It also doesn't include such features as DSTAR, GPS or APRS which will drive the price up. That being said, I have never used 70cm except on Field Day. BUT - in your area 70cm may be a common band, and that's why you have to get in touch with your local HAM Club.
4 You will no doubt have others who will respond to your question and recommend their favorite radios such as ICOM, Kenwood, ALINCO and several of the Chinese brands. They will all have pros and cons. Again, contact your local HAM Club and see what the recommend.
Lots of luck on your Tech and General tests ! !
W6PBR
05-22-2015, 03:33 PM
#3
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1 Contact your nearest HAM Radio Club and ask which radios they recommend for local operations. If there are several repeaters in your area, the answer will most likely be 2m/70cm. This is good for you because they are the most common bands used by Technicians, plus 2m/70cm radios are at the lower end of the cost scale which is what you are looking for as a new HAM.
2 By the nature of its design the Wrangler (JK/JKU) is a very poor radio support vehicle. It has a very poor ground plane/counterpoise characteristics which limits such long range bands as HF. That being said, the 2m/70cm bands are not as affected in this environment and you can plan on good performance as long as you are in range of a 2m/70cm repeater or two.
3 If you plan to go into the boonies - rough trails, extreme temps & lots of dust and/or snow&rain, you will need a well built powerful radio. That radio will not be cheap. That being said, it will not be in the $1,000 range either. I use, and recommend, the Yaesu FT-2900 2m transceiver. It is built like a brick outhouse, puts out 75W, and will cost you about $160 at HRO. You will also need an antenna, coax and wiring to your 12V battery. That will probably add $100 to your cost. Is there a downside to this radio? Yes, it is only single band (2m). It also doesn't include such features as DSTAR, GPS or APRS which will drive the price up. That being said, I have never used 70cm except on Field Day. BUT - in your area 70cm may be a common band, and that's why you have to get in touch with your local HAM Club.
4 You will no doubt have others who will respond to your question and recommend their favorite radios such as ICOM, Kenwood, ALINCO and several of the Chinese brands. They will all have pros and cons. Again, contact your local HAM Club and see what the recommend.
Lots of luck on your Tech and General tests ! !
W6PBR
2 By the nature of its design the Wrangler (JK/JKU) is a very poor radio support vehicle. It has a very poor ground plane/counterpoise characteristics which limits such long range bands as HF. That being said, the 2m/70cm bands are not as affected in this environment and you can plan on good performance as long as you are in range of a 2m/70cm repeater or two.
3 If you plan to go into the boonies - rough trails, extreme temps & lots of dust and/or snow&rain, you will need a well built powerful radio. That radio will not be cheap. That being said, it will not be in the $1,000 range either. I use, and recommend, the Yaesu FT-2900 2m transceiver. It is built like a brick outhouse, puts out 75W, and will cost you about $160 at HRO. You will also need an antenna, coax and wiring to your 12V battery. That will probably add $100 to your cost. Is there a downside to this radio? Yes, it is only single band (2m). It also doesn't include such features as DSTAR, GPS or APRS which will drive the price up. That being said, I have never used 70cm except on Field Day. BUT - in your area 70cm may be a common band, and that's why you have to get in touch with your local HAM Club.
4 You will no doubt have others who will respond to your question and recommend their favorite radios such as ICOM, Kenwood, ALINCO and several of the Chinese brands. They will all have pros and cons. Again, contact your local HAM Club and see what the recommend.
Lots of luck on your Tech and General tests ! !
W6PBR
05-22-2015, 04:27 PM
#4
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2 By the nature of its design the Wrangler (JK/JKU) is a very poor radio support vehicle. It has a very poor ground plane/counterpoise characteristics which limits such long range bands as HF. That being said, the 2m/70cm bands are not as affected in this environment and you can plan on good performance as long as you are in range of a 2m/70cm repeater or two.
05-22-2015, 10:03 PM
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When I was first looking at getting into HAM and which radio to have installed in my jeep I talked to a couple of the local HAM guys, a few folks on the forums, and some of the local ARES volunteers (Amateur Radio Emergency Service) and here's a brief recap of what I ws told:
1. Mobile HF is a pain in the butt to get right. The radios are more expensive, you need more equipment like an antenna tuner, and the antennas get more complicated (as it sounds like you're already aware from your posts). If you want something that's as simple to install as your CB was, stick with VHF/UHF and forego HF until you really get into the hobby.
2. HF frequencies are great if you want to talk to someone a state or two away but almost useless if you want to talk to a jeep behind you on the trail or call the nearest town for help. Unless you're either A) involved with EMCOMMS and trying to coordinate relief from inside a disaster zone or B) really into the HAM hobby and want to be able to talk to people across the country (or world) from wherever you are, stick with VHF / UHF (you also don't need anything more than a technician class license for the common VHF/UHF freqs).
3. With VHF/UHF frequencies, the antenna is extremely more simple than what you need for HF. Go with a reputable brand like Diamond or MFJ Enterprises (I own both the MFJ-1402B and MFJ-1412B and have no complaints).
4. Like Desert fox said, the 2m and 70cm bands are most likely the dominate bands in your (or anyone's) area and that goes back to my 2nd point. Here in Houston, a large number of the local HAMs use one of the 2m repeaters to talk to each other (mainly during rush-hour commutes). Because 70cm is a little higher energy than 2m, you might be able to reach out just a tad bit farther but if everyone else is on a 2m band than that extra range doesn't really do you any good. It looks like the Boulder area has 3x 2m repeaters and 2x 70cm repeaters, so the local club (BARC Home Page) could be favoring either, but I'd bet that they use 2m as their primary.
5. Personally, I'd recommend a dual band radio simply because they don't really cost that much more than a single band radio and they give you more flexibility if you go somewhere else where the local HAMs use the other band. The antennas are simpler and you'll be able to use it on trail rides with other HAMs.
6. Yaesu makes a quad-band radio (10m, 6m, 2, and 70cm), but of all of the HAMs I talked to before I got my rig, only one had a quad-band and he freely admitted that he'd never used the 6m or 10m bands. I know there's a guy on either this forum or maybe the JeepForum that has one and he really likes it, but he seems to be the type of HAM that just really enjoys talking to people from far away while he's out in the boonies. If you think you might like that, than look at the Yaesu FT-8900R (Amazon lists it for ~$500). Diamond even has the CR8900 antenna that has been specially designed and pre-tuned for that radio.
7. Stick with a major brand (Alinco, ICOM, Yaesu, or Kenwood), I've heard the cheaper brands can be a bit squirrelly.
8. APRS showed promise when it first came out, but none of the emcomms guys I talked with had any use for it. If you don't know what APRS is, it's an automatic position reporting feature that was meant to allow a coordinator know where all of the HAMs on the radio net were. Unfortunately, there are only a handful of APRS dedicated frequencies and they get so inundated that a single radio has a hard time getting it's updates through so the last reported position could be severely out of date if you're moving (like a marathon or bike ride support vehicle). It's a neat feature when it works (and hopefully one day it'll be a lot more reliable), but don't let not having APRS be a deal-breaker.
9. If you'll be getting out of your Jeep in remote areas (like conducting SAR operations or even just remote camping with the family and you want everyone to be able to stay in touch), get a radio that can crossband. Essentially, crossbanding turns your mobile radio into a mini-repeater that you and the other people in your party can use to extend the reach of your handhelds.
10. eHams.net has a bunch of reviews on radios, equipment, and antennas plus some good technical articles. Check it out when you have a chance and that might help you narrow down the list of radios you're interested in. Another resource you might want to check out is 4x4ham.com - you need a HAM call sign to register for the forum, but you can view all of the posts as a guest. I know there's a post from a guy that installed HF in his FJ so you can see what he had to do to get the antenna mounted.
KG5DSB
1. Mobile HF is a pain in the butt to get right. The radios are more expensive, you need more equipment like an antenna tuner, and the antennas get more complicated (as it sounds like you're already aware from your posts). If you want something that's as simple to install as your CB was, stick with VHF/UHF and forego HF until you really get into the hobby.
2. HF frequencies are great if you want to talk to someone a state or two away but almost useless if you want to talk to a jeep behind you on the trail or call the nearest town for help. Unless you're either A) involved with EMCOMMS and trying to coordinate relief from inside a disaster zone or B) really into the HAM hobby and want to be able to talk to people across the country (or world) from wherever you are, stick with VHF / UHF (you also don't need anything more than a technician class license for the common VHF/UHF freqs).
3. With VHF/UHF frequencies, the antenna is extremely more simple than what you need for HF. Go with a reputable brand like Diamond or MFJ Enterprises (I own both the MFJ-1402B and MFJ-1412B and have no complaints).
4. Like Desert fox said, the 2m and 70cm bands are most likely the dominate bands in your (or anyone's) area and that goes back to my 2nd point. Here in Houston, a large number of the local HAMs use one of the 2m repeaters to talk to each other (mainly during rush-hour commutes). Because 70cm is a little higher energy than 2m, you might be able to reach out just a tad bit farther but if everyone else is on a 2m band than that extra range doesn't really do you any good. It looks like the Boulder area has 3x 2m repeaters and 2x 70cm repeaters, so the local club (BARC Home Page) could be favoring either, but I'd bet that they use 2m as their primary.
5. Personally, I'd recommend a dual band radio simply because they don't really cost that much more than a single band radio and they give you more flexibility if you go somewhere else where the local HAMs use the other band. The antennas are simpler and you'll be able to use it on trail rides with other HAMs.
6. Yaesu makes a quad-band radio (10m, 6m, 2, and 70cm), but of all of the HAMs I talked to before I got my rig, only one had a quad-band and he freely admitted that he'd never used the 6m or 10m bands. I know there's a guy on either this forum or maybe the JeepForum that has one and he really likes it, but he seems to be the type of HAM that just really enjoys talking to people from far away while he's out in the boonies. If you think you might like that, than look at the Yaesu FT-8900R (Amazon lists it for ~$500). Diamond even has the CR8900 antenna that has been specially designed and pre-tuned for that radio.
7. Stick with a major brand (Alinco, ICOM, Yaesu, or Kenwood), I've heard the cheaper brands can be a bit squirrelly.
8. APRS showed promise when it first came out, but none of the emcomms guys I talked with had any use for it. If you don't know what APRS is, it's an automatic position reporting feature that was meant to allow a coordinator know where all of the HAMs on the radio net were. Unfortunately, there are only a handful of APRS dedicated frequencies and they get so inundated that a single radio has a hard time getting it's updates through so the last reported position could be severely out of date if you're moving (like a marathon or bike ride support vehicle). It's a neat feature when it works (and hopefully one day it'll be a lot more reliable), but don't let not having APRS be a deal-breaker.
9. If you'll be getting out of your Jeep in remote areas (like conducting SAR operations or even just remote camping with the family and you want everyone to be able to stay in touch), get a radio that can crossband. Essentially, crossbanding turns your mobile radio into a mini-repeater that you and the other people in your party can use to extend the reach of your handhelds.
10. eHams.net has a bunch of reviews on radios, equipment, and antennas plus some good technical articles. Check it out when you have a chance and that might help you narrow down the list of radios you're interested in. Another resource you might want to check out is 4x4ham.com - you need a HAM call sign to register for the forum, but you can view all of the posts as a guest. I know there's a post from a guy that installed HF in his FJ so you can see what he had to do to get the antenna mounted.
KG5DSB
Last edited by MB_Pathfinder; 05-22-2015 at 10:08 PM.
05-25-2015, 04:04 AM
#6
JK Enthusiast
I have the Kenwood TM281A in my JK. 2 meter only. Nice radio. Very simple. At home I have the V71A which is a dual bander and also does cross band repeat which is super cool. I also have a CRE 8900 in the JK which covers 10 meter and CB. Let me assure you that once you get used to FM on VHF, CB and 10 meter for local communication will be a distant memory. I mainly have mine to play with for DX (long distance communications). As stated, the jeep is as bad as it gets for installing an antenna. Very challenging.
Dont spend big bucks on an all mode radio. Its not worth it at this point. Stay conservative and get 2M/70CM. For me, HF is fun at home or when you are sitting in the parking lot waiting for your XYL to finish shopping.
Dont spend big bucks on an all mode radio. Its not worth it at this point. Stay conservative and get 2M/70CM. For me, HF is fun at home or when you are sitting in the parking lot waiting for your XYL to finish shopping.
05-25-2015, 08:37 AM
#7
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I have the Kenwood TM281A in my JK. 2 meter only. Nice radio. Very simple. At home I have the V71A which is a dual bander and also does cross band repeat which is super cool. I also have a CRE 8900 in the JK which covers 10 meter and CB. Let me assure you that once you get used to FM on VHF, CB and 10 meter for local communication will be a distant memory. I mainly have mine to play with for DX (long distance communications). As stated, the jeep is as bad as it gets for installing an antenna. Very challenging. Dont spend big bucks on an all mode radio. Its not worth it at this point. Stay conservative and get 2M/70CM. For me, HF is fun at home or when you are sitting in the parking lot waiting for your XYL to finish shopping.
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05-27-2015, 04:54 AM
#8
JK Enthusiast
Correct. It is technically a no no for it to transmit on 11 meter (CB). It can. I do not use it to transmit on CB. But I can listen. I really prefer 2 meter in the Jeep. For the $15 fee for the HAM license, its way better to go the VHF route.