Best supercharger for the money... ripp? 505? Sprintex? other?????
01-28-2012, 12:25 PM
#161
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I too have the smaller pulley now on mine. I am at altitude. Around 3500 feet. The smaller pulley has made a difference. No it will not over boost because of it.
If you drive a grocery runner or a DD 100 miles a day I'd look at the turbo charger, but with a jeep the SC comes in earlier and smoother.
If you drive a grocery runner or a DD 100 miles a day I'd look at the turbo charger, but with a jeep the SC comes in earlier and smoother.
01-30-2012, 07:15 AM
#162
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That is not how a blow off valve works and looking at the picture it is no different than the RIPP system which also contains a bypass valve. You pretty much have the same thing with a water to air inter cooler and different positioning of the unit itself. The RIPP system also contains a bypass valve.
FYI he RIPP system will start to go positive at right around 1800RPM as well. There are other 3rd party wheels available for Vortech units that can further tailor the airflow curve if you really need it.
FYI he RIPP system will start to go positive at right around 1800RPM as well. There are other 3rd party wheels available for Vortech units that can further tailor the airflow curve if you really need it.
Nope
Its a tad smaller. Brings it in a bit earlier. Although mine is probably a bit smaller than what you may be running as I have an early V2 which was not as efficient as what RIPP is using now. One small side effect of my pulley is peak boost is now 10-11PSI depending on altitude. AFRs and EGTs are in check even up to those levels. And after 25k of supercharged use, everything in my engine still looks good.
Its a tad smaller. Brings it in a bit earlier. Although mine is probably a bit smaller than what you may be running as I have an early V2 which was not as efficient as what RIPP is using now. One small side effect of my pulley is peak boost is now 10-11PSI depending on altitude. AFRs and EGTs are in check even up to those levels. And after 25k of supercharged use, everything in my engine still looks good.
A compressor bypass valve (CBV), also known as a pressure relief valve or diverter valve, is a manifold vacuum-actuated valve designed to release pressure in the intake system of a turbocharged vehicle when the throttle is lifted or closed. This air pressure is re-circulated back into the non-pressurized end of the intake (before the turbo) but after the mass airflow sensor.
A blowoff valve, (sometimes "hooter valve", not to be confused with a bypass valve) performs the same task but releases the air into the atmosphere instead of recirculating it. The blowoff action produces a range of distinctive hissing sounds, depending on the exit design. Some blowoff valves are sold with a trumpet-shaped exit that intentionally amplifies the sound. Some turbocharged vehicle owners may purchase a blowoff valve solely for the auditory effect even when the function is not required by normal engine operation. Motor sports governed by the FIA have made it illegal to vent unmuffled blowoff valves to the atmosphere.[citation needed]
Blowoff valves are used to prevent compressor surge, a phenomenon that readily occurs when lifting off the throttle of an unvented, turbocharged engine. When the throttle plate on a turbocharged engine closes, the high pressure air in the intake system is trapped by the throttle and a pressure wave is forced back into the compressor. The compressor wheel slows rapidly and may even stall, and the driver will notice a fluttering air sound. The rapid slowing or stalling stresses the turbo and imparts severe turbo lag if the driver accelerates immediately after the surge event.
01-30-2012, 07:29 AM
#163
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As usual.... still reading and doing my homework before ponying up the cash...
I have read that on several of the kits the Battery location has to be moved... will this be a liability issue? i see the Sprintex does not do this...
I also understand that Hypertech has about 25 engineers and Diablo around 4.... and Hypertech is the premier group to have your mapping done... is this correct?
Is anyone but Sprintex, CARB approved or getting CARB approved? This is a MAJOR thing for us California guys with all the smog issues... if i can i never want to take it off after it is installed...
Warrenty problems would make me take it off i guess.... but Sprintex clams a 4 hour job.... hmmmm... seems to good to be true.... but it looks as if i will find out unless something better comes along.
Waiting for Advenger pics and more from them also.
Some one ask the difference between supercharging and turbo charging....
here is the spill from wikapedia on that:
Supercharging versus turbocharging
Positive-displacement superchargers may absorb as much as a third of the total crankshaft power of the engine, and, in many applications, are less efficient than turbochargers. In applications for which engine response and power are more important than any other consideration, such as top-fuel dragsters and vehicles used in tractor pulling competitions, positive-displacement superchargers are very common.
There are three main categories of superchargers for automotive use:
* Centrifugal turbochargers – driven from exhaust gases.
* Centrifugal superchargers – driven directly by the engine via a belt-drive.
* Positive displacement pumps – such as the Roots, Twin Screw (Lysholm), and TVS (Eaton) blowers.
The thermal efficiency, or fraction of the fuel/air energy that is converted to output power, is less with a mechanically driven supercharger than with a turbocharger, because turbochargers are using energy from the exhaust gases that would normally be wasted. For this reason, both the economy and the power of a turbocharged engine are usually better than with superchargers. The main advantage of an engine with a mechanically driven supercharger is better throttle response, as well as the ability to reach full-boost pressure instantaneously. With the latest turbocharging technology, throttle response on turbocharged cars is nearly as good as with mechanically powered superchargers, but the existing lag time is still considered a major drawback, especially considering that the vast majority of mechanically driven superchargers are now driven off clutched pulleys, much like an air compressor.
Turbochargers suffer (to a greater or lesser extent) from so-called turbo-spool (turbo lag; more correctly, boost lag), in which initial acceleration from low RPM is limited by the lack of sufficient exhaust gas mass flow (pressure). Once engine RPM is sufficient to start the turbine spinning, there is a rapid increase in power, as higher turbo boost causes more exhaust gas production, which spins the turbo yet faster, leading to a belated "surge" of acceleration. This makes the maintenance of smoothly increasing RPM far harder with turbochargers than with engine-driven superchargers, which apply boost in direct proportion to the engine RPM.
Roots blowers tend to be 40–50% efficient at high boost levels. Centrifugal superchargers are 70–85% efficient. Lysholm-style blowers can be nearly as efficient as their centrifugal counterparts over a narrow range of load/speed/boost, for which the system must be specifically designed.
Keeping the air that enters the engine cool is an important part of the design of both superchargers and turbochargers. Compressing air increases its temperature, so it is common to use a small radiator called an intercooler between the pump and the engine to reduce the temperature of the air.
In the 1985 and 1986 World Rally Championships, Lancia ran the Delta S4, which incorporated both a belt-driven supercharger and exhaust-driven turbocharger. The design used a complex series of bypass valves in the induction and exhaust systems as well as an electromagnetic clutch so that, at low engine speeds, boost was derived from the supercharger. In the middle of the rev range, boost was derived from both systems, while at the highest revs the system disconnected drive from the supercharger and isolated the associated ducting.[10] This was done in an attempt to exploit the advantages of each of the charging systems while removing the disadvantages. In turn, this approach brought greater complexity and impacted on the cars reliability in WRC events, as well as increasing the weight of engine ancillaries in the finished design.
The Volkswagen TSI engine (or Twincharger) is a 1.4-litre direct-injection motor that also uses both a supercharger and turbocharger.
I have read that on several of the kits the Battery location has to be moved... will this be a liability issue? i see the Sprintex does not do this...
I also understand that Hypertech has about 25 engineers and Diablo around 4.... and Hypertech is the premier group to have your mapping done... is this correct?
Is anyone but Sprintex, CARB approved or getting CARB approved? This is a MAJOR thing for us California guys with all the smog issues... if i can i never want to take it off after it is installed...
Warrenty problems would make me take it off i guess.... but Sprintex clams a 4 hour job.... hmmmm... seems to good to be true.... but it looks as if i will find out unless something better comes along.
Waiting for Advenger pics and more from them also.
Some one ask the difference between supercharging and turbo charging....
here is the spill from wikapedia on that:
Supercharging versus turbocharging
Positive-displacement superchargers may absorb as much as a third of the total crankshaft power of the engine, and, in many applications, are less efficient than turbochargers. In applications for which engine response and power are more important than any other consideration, such as top-fuel dragsters and vehicles used in tractor pulling competitions, positive-displacement superchargers are very common.
There are three main categories of superchargers for automotive use:
* Centrifugal turbochargers – driven from exhaust gases.
* Centrifugal superchargers – driven directly by the engine via a belt-drive.
* Positive displacement pumps – such as the Roots, Twin Screw (Lysholm), and TVS (Eaton) blowers.
The thermal efficiency, or fraction of the fuel/air energy that is converted to output power, is less with a mechanically driven supercharger than with a turbocharger, because turbochargers are using energy from the exhaust gases that would normally be wasted. For this reason, both the economy and the power of a turbocharged engine are usually better than with superchargers. The main advantage of an engine with a mechanically driven supercharger is better throttle response, as well as the ability to reach full-boost pressure instantaneously. With the latest turbocharging technology, throttle response on turbocharged cars is nearly as good as with mechanically powered superchargers, but the existing lag time is still considered a major drawback, especially considering that the vast majority of mechanically driven superchargers are now driven off clutched pulleys, much like an air compressor.
Turbochargers suffer (to a greater or lesser extent) from so-called turbo-spool (turbo lag; more correctly, boost lag), in which initial acceleration from low RPM is limited by the lack of sufficient exhaust gas mass flow (pressure). Once engine RPM is sufficient to start the turbine spinning, there is a rapid increase in power, as higher turbo boost causes more exhaust gas production, which spins the turbo yet faster, leading to a belated "surge" of acceleration. This makes the maintenance of smoothly increasing RPM far harder with turbochargers than with engine-driven superchargers, which apply boost in direct proportion to the engine RPM.
Roots blowers tend to be 40–50% efficient at high boost levels. Centrifugal superchargers are 70–85% efficient. Lysholm-style blowers can be nearly as efficient as their centrifugal counterparts over a narrow range of load/speed/boost, for which the system must be specifically designed.
Keeping the air that enters the engine cool is an important part of the design of both superchargers and turbochargers. Compressing air increases its temperature, so it is common to use a small radiator called an intercooler between the pump and the engine to reduce the temperature of the air.
In the 1985 and 1986 World Rally Championships, Lancia ran the Delta S4, which incorporated both a belt-driven supercharger and exhaust-driven turbocharger. The design used a complex series of bypass valves in the induction and exhaust systems as well as an electromagnetic clutch so that, at low engine speeds, boost was derived from the supercharger. In the middle of the rev range, boost was derived from both systems, while at the highest revs the system disconnected drive from the supercharger and isolated the associated ducting.[10] This was done in an attempt to exploit the advantages of each of the charging systems while removing the disadvantages. In turn, this approach brought greater complexity and impacted on the cars reliability in WRC events, as well as increasing the weight of engine ancillaries in the finished design.
The Volkswagen TSI engine (or Twincharger) is a 1.4-litre direct-injection motor that also uses both a supercharger and turbocharger.
01-30-2012, 09:20 AM
#164
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Has Sprintex started the CARB certification or are they saying they will be? It is no small feat, both time and money, to get Carb certification. If they are bringing their product here within the next 60-90 days and have not even begun the certification process I would question whether they are or are not going after it. If they do get it, I think it would be a huge selling point with the number of states now following CARB's regs.
If you want some reading to put you to sleep at night go to http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...procedures.pdf and start reading around page 11. Bottom of page 14 top of 15 is one of the areas that they will be up against. Durability of emission control equipment cannot be compromised. Dumping more exhaust through the cats will effect their life expectancy. Will it affect it to the point of failing? That is the question. Extensive and time consuming tests will have to prove that point. Not saying that Sprintex won't spend the time and money to do it, but I think that is why you find most of the supercharger/turbocharger manufacturers/suppliers not seeking CARB compliance for an engine that is no longer being used. The market is small and now that Jeep has gone to the 3.6, there is not as much incentive to spend the money.
With all that being said, I am very happy with my Ripp. Would I like to have it CARB compliant? Absolutely!! However, I bought it knowing it was not CARB compliant and would never be. When it comes time to smog it I will remove it and put it back on after. Only takes a couple of hours. It does pass the tailpipe test installed but would never pass a visual.
Mike
If you want some reading to put you to sleep at night go to http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...procedures.pdf and start reading around page 11. Bottom of page 14 top of 15 is one of the areas that they will be up against. Durability of emission control equipment cannot be compromised. Dumping more exhaust through the cats will effect their life expectancy. Will it affect it to the point of failing? That is the question. Extensive and time consuming tests will have to prove that point. Not saying that Sprintex won't spend the time and money to do it, but I think that is why you find most of the supercharger/turbocharger manufacturers/suppliers not seeking CARB compliance for an engine that is no longer being used. The market is small and now that Jeep has gone to the 3.6, there is not as much incentive to spend the money.
With all that being said, I am very happy with my Ripp. Would I like to have it CARB compliant? Absolutely!! However, I bought it knowing it was not CARB compliant and would never be. When it comes time to smog it I will remove it and put it back on after. Only takes a couple of hours. It does pass the tailpipe test installed but would never pass a visual.
Mike
01-30-2012, 10:06 AM
#165
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01-30-2012, 01:08 PM
#167
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No need, I can answer your question.
Hypertech is handling the Carb process and all tuning concerns. We will also be your first call for tech support. This kit started from the ground up is designed to address the needs of our JK's on and off road.
01-30-2012, 01:43 PM
#168
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To be clear. Has Hypertech been able to finally crack the 2011 ECU?
01-30-2012, 01:52 PM
#169
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Yes... That is what I understand
So yes... CARB cert!!!!
01-30-2012, 02:39 PM
#170
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Sounding better all the time.. I truly am still open to any of the SC's..... but this Sprintex unit SEEMS to be the best in all aspects..... it will be nice to see the first dynos... that will tell us a lot more....
looking forward to more input, thoughts and ???????
p:-)