sea bass

This is you trying to be helpful?

You actually were being helpful up until that point and I learned a lot from this thread (which is why I'm here).
I don't agree with a small portion of what you say - who cares? Was I somehow being disrespectful by questioning you?
What ringer said makes perfect sense to me and is in-line with my thinking. Again - who cares?
Does it bother you that someone doesn't agree with you much that you need to go overboard?

I don't see how I've contradicted myself at all but I do believe a lot of our intent gets lost in text. I'm not losing any sleep - I hope you're not either.

I do apologize to the OP that this went sideways. I hope he keeps us updated and can get to the bottom of his body roll issue

DJ1

No problem. Exactly who cares? Some do. Some don't. Not a bid deal. Some can take a ribbing. Some get all bent out of shape. People have different layers of skin....some thicker, some thinner.

Not losing sleep. I enjoy the critical thinking which is something that is lacking greatly in today's society. It's threads like these that keep the mind sharp. Everything is designed and has a purpose for a reason. Did I go overboard? Perhaps to some, but it drives a point home.

Good day. Catch you around on another thread.

Ringer

Thank you for not taking the time to read and comprehend my comments. I am in agreement with you(as stated in the post above) that the links should be at 90 for optimal performance. Your comment above states that there would be more resistance to suspension cycle. If the suspension can't cycle, then there isn't body roll either. You are throwing out extreme examples. The bottom line is that yes he should replace the links, but that is not likely to be the cause of his poor body roll.

With comments as to his being a frankenlift, that shouldn't change anything if he put it together properly. I will go out on a limb and say that my frankenlift handles better than 99% of the JK's out there.

DJ1

I agree on many points. However if the suspension can't cycle then sure there may not be body roll, but that doesn't discount the vehicle can still tip itself over in a turn or if off camber while off road. How it comes from the factory, 90* and a long enough swaybar lever, provides the ideal setup for what the Jeep will most likely encounter for a good sampling of the drivers out there.

DJ1

I wouldn't expect anything less from someone that's been around and knows what they're doing.

planman

If you lift your jeep and add heavy armor and bumpers, it is helpful to get a stiffer rear swaybar to reduce body roll. Full Traction has one that is more affordable than going with something like a Currie Antirock.

The stock rear swaybar is very flimsy for jeeps with longer shocks and heavier upgrades.

Typically, you want your rear swaybar at 90* at your mid-point for rear suspension travel.

If your shock, bumpstop and spring result in 50% up and 50% down travel, you'd want your swaybar at a 90* angle.

If your setup results in more down travel than up travel, then you want your swaybar higher than level.

If your swaybar is lower than level, you will experience more body roll. Even worse, when your suspension droops, you risk inverting the rear swaybar links.

14Sport

Huh...and I was chastised before for suggesting that you want to have the sway bar rest at just above midpoint of suspension travel to prevent pretzeling. Not based on experience but based on logic. I hope they see this thread.

Thanks, Planman. Makes me feel less stupid. And you know who you are...

DJ1

If you're going to tune your sways to a more aggressive/stiffer setup, make sure you understand the trade-offs in doing so. Stiffer bars on-road translate to less flex off-road. On top of that when the leverage arm drops you now interfere with suspension travel.

Differences between front and rear sway setups will also affect understeer/oversteer.

Finally, if your setup is too aggressive you now turn your whole axle into one huge lever with the fulcrum on the outside wheels in a turn. Not something you want as your inside wheels lift off the ground and now your delegating traction to the outside tires only.

On top of that, you're in a high center of gravity vehicle and in most cases are still running stock/narrow axles on aftermarket tires with large sidewalls at 26-28 psi (which translates to "soft"). You're not driving an Acura NSX, a GT2, Viper, etc. with low center of gravity, low profile tires, wide tread tires, and/or wide rear ends.

So you're no longer dealing with body roll, you're dealing with death-roll. Swaybar/stabilizer bar is there to keep all 4 wheels planted. If you're going to run aggressive, make sure you fully understand the trade offs and know what you're doing.

DJ1

Results of swaybars set too stiff thus little to no torsional resistance/spring to keep the wheel planted...




This is what happens when you're in a high center of gravity vehicle with large/soft sidewalls and improper swaybar (and even suspension) tuning. Notice how improper tuning causes inside wheels to lift. Doesn't take much to roll these vehicles over even at slow speeds. I would hate to see a vehicle like this in a Moose test aka lane change test like the Cherokee was submitted to. We're not even talking extreme setups (swaybars pointed 89* down) or extreme driving here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9eztBgJJ88 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ538H_KZCI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fs5M8GuvcU