sea bass

I meant less leverage to be able to twist the sway allowing body lean. Think about the swaybar pointing almost completely down, wouldn't it by tougher to twist using the links than if the links were perpendicular to it?

I dunno - maybe not but it makes sense in my head :-)

DJ1

If the swaybar is pointing completely down it's no longer a lever. Torque upon a lever is a function of force x distance. In this case the distance = 0.

DJ1

crappy images but you'll get the idea....

sea bass

Nice find on the pics.
so....the torque in the pics is what's essentially causing the sway bar to twist allowing the body to roll correct? The steeper the angle, the less torque is created using the same force which would mean less twisting of the swaybar. If you're not twisting the sway bar as much, then you're getting less body roll. Then a level sway bar will cause more body roll then one angled.

Am I nuts? I very well could be :-)

DJ1

DJ1

last attempt

Yes, because the swaybar is almost pointing completely down, less force is being applied to the lever action of the swaybar because force is now being applied at an angle. Because of that, yes it is tougher to twist the swaybar. And because now the bar isn't twisting as much, there is less torsional resistance aka feedback from the swaybar created. Because there is less torsional resistance to counter the body roll of the vehicle, if turning fast enough the vehicle will flip over.



After searching high and low, this article is the best one I could find that shows you how a sway bar works. Keep in mind that the sway bars primary function is to limit body roll to varying degrees and allow the coils/shocks/suspension to do what it does best.

http://speed.academy/how-swaybars-work/

Think about how products like Currie's Antirock, Teraflex Dual Rate, and even the stock Rubicon swaybar disconnect systems work.

The swaybar is a function of 2 things...
1. The torsional rigidity of the swaybar itself. Some bars are hollowed out to allow it to twist easier. Smaller diameter bars also allow rotational torque to be easier. Assuming the same material composition, thicker/larger diameter bars are tougher to twist
2. Magnitude of force being applied to the lever of the sway bar

Teraflex's Dual Rate system is a perfect example of how 2 diameter bars are used. The inner & thinner bar only is engaged offroad. Then the thicker (outer bar) and the thinner (inner bar) are both engaged for on-road/highway driving. The sway bar links are always connected in the same position to the sway bar lever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW_x9j-FQ2c

The Currie Antirock instead allows the user to change the magnitude of force being applied to the sway bar by offering multiple points that the end links can connect to and a longer swaybar lever. Sure you can get more articulation offroad but that also translates to more body roll while you're street driving.



The Rubicon Swaybar, when you press the button to allow it to "disconnect" allows zero torsional resistance from the swaybar. Zero torsional resistance = more flex/articulation offroad but creates the window to allow for more body roll. However this is fine offroad because chances are you're not zipping around corners at 50-60 mph. That is also why it comes from the factory where you can't disengage the discos after a certain speed.

Take the most extreme end where say you have none of the above but are instead running a stock swaybar with something like JKS quick disconnects. By completely disconnecting, the swaybar is useless and serves no function. Here you get the most body roll because there is nothing there aside from a stiff suspension to keep it from rolling over on a fast/quick turn.

14Sport

You just couldn't leave it at ^^^, could you...lol

I get what you're saying, but is it really a noticeable difference? The sway bar may work harder depending on length, but it is still working, no?

DJ1

I just didn't want to type that much yesterday haha....

Yeah it's still working as long as the links are connected but 90 degrees/perpendicular between links and swaybar lever is optimum. Since it's angled, the swaybar is less efficient in doing it's job to counter body roll. The 4 door is also heavier so more weight being shifted.

I would think the length of the JKU also comes into play because more momentum is also being created as the tail end swings around a corner which the swaybar needs to overcome.

TaylarsJK

I have stock bumpers, soft top, and a 35 Toyo on the back so I netted at least 3" in the front and at least 3.25" in the rear. I wouldn't be opposed to doing a drag link flip with a track bar bracket in the front as I've heard that it will greatly improve my handling characteristics, but I'll eventually replace the bumpers and add a winch which should bring the height down some. But for now I'll just get longer rear links and see what difference that makes

14Sport

Well I think the part that makes it confusing is torsional force is torsional force, no matter what the starting position of the sway bar. The bushings are not a factor because the bar rotates in the bushings. So to a layman, those not really schooled in physics, say a 30* upswing on the outboard side will cause the torsional force resulting from 30* to be applied to the inboard side. Now the end link may have to work harder to move the bar 30* when less than perpendicular, but the bar still moves 30* regardless. It really seems to be a factor of how much the spring compresses, meaning more compression equals more torsional force being applied, to offset momentum.

Now that may be wrong but at least that gives you an idea on how I arrived at my wrongness (is that a word?).