Nitro Gear Kit nightmare from Just Differentials
12-17-2013, 04:26 PM
#11
JK Junkie
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The short bolts where the cause of your failure. The bolts being too short does not spread the load far enough over the bolt to make them effective. As far as who is responsible for the failure, you are. After your mechanic told you the bolts where to short you should of stopped him until it was resolved. Second buy gears from a quality manufacturer who stands behind there product.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk . Rich
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk . Rich
12-17-2013, 04:55 PM
#12
JK Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Which i will send once i get confirmation from them.
12-17-2013, 04:56 PM
#13
JK Freak
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It's a Jeep Thing!
Find someone with a PMI (Positive Material Identification) metal analyzer and have them check the bolt and ring composition. Make sure it is what it's supposed to be. Also, find a 3rd party gear expert to evaluate the failure and sign an affidavit as to his opinion of the cause. You can use that as leverage.
Some gear manufacturers won't warranty their gears unless installed by an approved shop. They expect the installer to catch their screw-ups (short bolts, wrong hole size). In this case, an experienced and reputable mechanic would not have installed that gear knowing the install was less than optimal.
"My mechanic said that the bolts failed because they are too short and the shank does not match up to the carrier holes..." Mechanic screwed up.
"The carrier has 1/2 bolt holes and the nitro gear ring is for 7/16. Upon further discussion with Just Diff. they claim its "OK to use 7/16th bolts in the 1/2 inch holes."" Unless Just Diff manufactures or warranties Nitro Gear, they are just a distributor and you don't need to be letting them muddy the waters. Contact Nitro Gear directly.
I would have the installer work with Nitro Gear to resolve this to your satisfaction. If they won't you will have no choice but to get legal counsel or at least take them to small claims court to recoup some of the cost.
BTW: My Motive rear gear came drilled and tapped fro both 7/16 and 1/2 and included bolts for both.
Some gear manufacturers won't warranty their gears unless installed by an approved shop. They expect the installer to catch their screw-ups (short bolts, wrong hole size). In this case, an experienced and reputable mechanic would not have installed that gear knowing the install was less than optimal.
"My mechanic said that the bolts failed because they are too short and the shank does not match up to the carrier holes..." Mechanic screwed up.
"The carrier has 1/2 bolt holes and the nitro gear ring is for 7/16. Upon further discussion with Just Diff. they claim its "OK to use 7/16th bolts in the 1/2 inch holes."" Unless Just Diff manufactures or warranties Nitro Gear, they are just a distributor and you don't need to be letting them muddy the waters. Contact Nitro Gear directly.
I would have the installer work with Nitro Gear to resolve this to your satisfaction. If they won't you will have no choice but to get legal counsel or at least take them to small claims court to recoup some of the cost.
BTW: My Motive rear gear came drilled and tapped fro both 7/16 and 1/2 and included bolts for both.
Last edited by Sahara Lee; 12-17-2013 at 05:03 PM.
12-17-2013, 05:05 PM
#14
JK Enthusiast
Thread Starter
No where in the ops thread does it state the mechanic told him the bolts were too short BEFORE the failure. Simply states the bolts being to small was the cause of the failure. The mechanic is to blame if he knowingly installed the wrong bolts without consulting the vendor but the vendor is at fault if he did so. Also said vendor provided the bolts with the kit so the "should" have been the proper bolts
The shop that did the work does many gear changes on JKs in the area and is an well recommended, experienced mechanic.
The new parts should be in tomorrow so I hope to make a more thorough evaluation.
For what its worth, I was not aware until this failure that Dana makes Dana 44 carriers for both 7/16 or 1/2" hardware. If i had know i would have made a different brand choice to match my factory LSD carrier.
12-17-2013, 05:11 PM
#15
JK Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Find someone with a PMI (Positive Material Identification) metal analyzer and have them check the bolt and ring composition. Make sure it is what it's supposed to be. Also, find a 3rd party gear expert to evaluate the failure and sign an affidavit as to his opinion of the cause. You can use that as leverage.
Some gear manufacturers won't warranty their gears unless installed by an approved shop. They expect the installer to catch their screw-ups (short bolts, wrong hole size). In this case, an experienced and reputable mechanic would not have installed that gear knowing the install was less than optimal.
"My mechanic said that the bolts failed because they are too short and the shank does not match up to the carrier holes..." Mechanic screwed up.
"The carrier has 1/2 bolt holes and the nitro gear ring is for 7/16. Upon further discussion with Just Diff. they claim its "OK to use 7/16th bolts in the 1/2 inch holes."" Unless Just Diff manufactures or warranties Nitro Gear, they are just a distributor and you don't need to be letting them muddy the waters. Contact Nitro Gear directly.
I would have the installer work with Nitro Gear to resolve this to your satisfaction. If they won't you will have no choice but to get legal counsel or at least take them to small claims court to recoup some of the cost.
BTW: My Motive rear gear came drilled and tapped fro both 7/16 and 1/2 and included bolts for both.
Attachment 517521
Some gear manufacturers won't warranty their gears unless installed by an approved shop. They expect the installer to catch their screw-ups (short bolts, wrong hole size). In this case, an experienced and reputable mechanic would not have installed that gear knowing the install was less than optimal.
"My mechanic said that the bolts failed because they are too short and the shank does not match up to the carrier holes..." Mechanic screwed up.
"The carrier has 1/2 bolt holes and the nitro gear ring is for 7/16. Upon further discussion with Just Diff. they claim its "OK to use 7/16th bolts in the 1/2 inch holes."" Unless Just Diff manufactures or warranties Nitro Gear, they are just a distributor and you don't need to be letting them muddy the waters. Contact Nitro Gear directly.
I would have the installer work with Nitro Gear to resolve this to your satisfaction. If they won't you will have no choice but to get legal counsel or at least take them to small claims court to recoup some of the cost.
BTW: My Motive rear gear came drilled and tapped fro both 7/16 and 1/2 and included bolts for both.
Attachment 517521
That is some great advice. I'm not sure if I can find some one to test the material, But it would be helpful to have an expert to evaluate the failure which i will do.
All gear manufactures should make their rings threaded for both. I hope this thread helps educate people.
Thanks for the pic.
12-20-2013, 09:27 AM
#16
JK Enthusiast
Thread Starter
UDATE:
After speaking with Carl Montoya, the owner of Just Differentials & Nitro Gear, after the failure Carl was very clear persistent that even though my factory carrier was made for 1/2" hardware that the 7/16" hardware he provides to use with the gear kit are correct and acceptable spec.
Because my OEM Dana carrier was damaged I bough a take off OEM LSD from Nitro for $250. It arrived in good shape and Carl told me on the same phone call that they did me a favor by selling me a "take off" for that price. "take off" means used and used means not new....
The second ring they sent me was threaded for both 1/2" and 7/16th hardware. (they still only supplied 7/16th)
I sourced new 1/2" hardware from a local performance shop/Dana specialist, and used it for the install of the new ring.
Yesterday I decided to call Dana myself to see if they have any notes about mixing hardware. The Dana tech asked me to conf. call in the distributor and then confirmed with both of us on the phone what we all would suspect.... that Dana does NOT spec 7/16" hardware for Dana carriers which are made for 1/2".
I know this sounds like common sense but Nitro Gear on multiple phone calls with myself and my mechanic Just Differentials convinced us that they do this on the swaps in their shop and have done it 10,000s of times. Just Differentials even provided us statements from Eaton locker which states that the 7/16th hardware is fine to use in carries made for 1/2"
The interesting thing is I don't even have and Eaton carrier... its an OEM Dana and they knew that because I had to provide them the spec when I ordered the parts.
Carl even stated on the phone that he as performed over 40,000 rear end changes and never had this problem. Now if I do my math correctly that's an average of about 3 rear ends per day, every day, 356, for 34 years. Coincidentally Carl is 34 years old.
I'll report back with photos of the broke parts that have been removed. I will also have a qualified specialist examine the parts before I send them back.
Stay tuned....
After speaking with Carl Montoya, the owner of Just Differentials & Nitro Gear, after the failure Carl was very clear persistent that even though my factory carrier was made for 1/2" hardware that the 7/16" hardware he provides to use with the gear kit are correct and acceptable spec.
Because my OEM Dana carrier was damaged I bough a take off OEM LSD from Nitro for $250. It arrived in good shape and Carl told me on the same phone call that they did me a favor by selling me a "take off" for that price. "take off" means used and used means not new....
The second ring they sent me was threaded for both 1/2" and 7/16th hardware. (they still only supplied 7/16th)
I sourced new 1/2" hardware from a local performance shop/Dana specialist, and used it for the install of the new ring.
Yesterday I decided to call Dana myself to see if they have any notes about mixing hardware. The Dana tech asked me to conf. call in the distributor and then confirmed with both of us on the phone what we all would suspect.... that Dana does NOT spec 7/16" hardware for Dana carriers which are made for 1/2".
I know this sounds like common sense but Nitro Gear on multiple phone calls with myself and my mechanic Just Differentials convinced us that they do this on the swaps in their shop and have done it 10,000s of times. Just Differentials even provided us statements from Eaton locker which states that the 7/16th hardware is fine to use in carries made for 1/2"
The interesting thing is I don't even have and Eaton carrier... its an OEM Dana and they knew that because I had to provide them the spec when I ordered the parts.
Carl even stated on the phone that he as performed over 40,000 rear end changes and never had this problem. Now if I do my math correctly that's an average of about 3 rear ends per day, every day, 356, for 34 years. Coincidentally Carl is 34 years old.
I'll report back with photos of the broke parts that have been removed. I will also have a qualified specialist examine the parts before I send them back.
Stay tuned....
Last edited by twoxstreem; 01-24-2014 at 02:47 AM.
12-20-2013, 11:48 AM
#18
JK Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Thanks. I'll give nitro gear time to evaluate the equipment before it goes that far. Maybe they'll go good for it... maybe not.
In the meantime I've saved all of my receipts and emails.
12-20-2013, 11:51 AM
#19
JK Junkie
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Just make sure your not out any money for any of this including rental car cause its bs.
12-20-2013, 12:19 PM
#20
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WOW I am shocked....... The folks at Nitro done screwed up...... The distributor was just falling along with what Nitro is telling them. Too bad sorry your going through all of this. I hope they make good on it for you if not sounds like you have one hell of a lawsuit.
