Procharger kit for the JK: Any one running it?
12-12-2016, 10:09 AM
#11
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
One thing that seems to be missing is what you use your Jeep for? If you off-road, a turbo is probably not the way to go. Excessive heat, which is something you want to avoid. Power comes in at higher RPM. And, there is the big down pipe that is just waiting to get taken out by a fallen tree.
If I where shopping for forced induction for a Jeep that would be used off-road and in crawling situations, it would be a roots style such as Edelbrock. Torque is boosted in low RPM and it is a much more linear power band. It may not have the peak HP of a turbo, but that doesn't mean the turbo is faster. Having more power across the entire power band is going to beat out something that wins on peak HP at 6k rpm. Think of it like a Tesla where the electric motors operate at full power instantly. Those cars have been whopping some butt at the drag strip against cars with significantly more power.
If I where shopping for forced induction for a Jeep that would be used off-road and in crawling situations, it would be a roots style such as Edelbrock. Torque is boosted in low RPM and it is a much more linear power band. It may not have the peak HP of a turbo, but that doesn't mean the turbo is faster. Having more power across the entire power band is going to beat out something that wins on peak HP at 6k rpm. Think of it like a Tesla where the electric motors operate at full power instantly. Those cars have been whopping some butt at the drag strip against cars with significantly more power.
Honestly this is mostly used for daily driving... I may hit trails 5-6 times a year (note worthy trails that is...not just driving on a dirt road etc).... I just want to be a little different... and it seems like there a TON of roots style blowers on Wranglers...but I guess this is for good reason (IE your explanation of the power curve)... My biggest concern with going turbo is heat... but chatting with Prodigy they have not had any issues with this... I can tell you that when I had my Turbocharged Mustang (ya had one of those as well LOL)... I dealt with a TON of overheating issues (being this was a put together kit so not really the turbos fault directly)
12-12-2016, 10:41 AM
#12
JK Freak
Honestly this is mostly used for daily driving... I may hit trails 5-6 times a year (note worthy trails that is...not just driving on a dirt road etc).... I just want to be a little different... and it seems like there a TON of roots style blowers on Wranglers...but I guess this is for good reason (IE your explanation of the power curve)... My biggest concern with going turbo is heat... but chatting with Prodigy they have not had any issues with this... I can tell you that when I had my Turbocharged Mustang (ya had one of those as well LOL)... I dealt with a TON of overheating issues (being this was a put together kit so not really the turbos fault directly)
12-12-2016, 11:07 AM
#13
JK Junkie
12-12-2016, 03:11 PM
#15
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If you are going to be hot rodding around town on sticky pavement you might want to look at all the other upgrades you will need to do to put down that kind of power. Might want to start saving up haha
12-13-2016, 06:51 PM
#16
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As someone who has had a turbo installed on my Wrangler for over 2 years and 35k miles now, I'd just like to address some of the points brought up in this thread.
Under-hood heat, coolant temperature, etc., has not been an issue for me in daily driving, moderate off-road trail driving, or running hard on the sand dunes. The only heat problem I've had so far was when I had the Stage 1 kit (no intercooler) and repeatedly accelerating up sand dunes on a hot summer day. My intake air temps got high enough to trigger a check engine light. No problems at all in similar situations with the Stage 2 kit (intercooled). So if you're going to run it hard, definitely get the Stage 2 kit. If you want extra piece of mind, get the pipes ceramic coated.
Off-road performance: If you have your axles geared properly for your tire size, then the stock engine most likely already performs great for slow off-road driving (assuming you make use of 4LO as necessary, don't unnecessarily lug it at low RPMs when you could downshift to access more of the engine's power). The exception might be more extreme rock crawling/bouncing obstacle type stuff, but I don't do that stuff, so I can't really say. For moderate trail driving type stuff, the turbo mostly does a great job of being transparent. No uncontrollable sudden spooling, etc. It just drives very easily on the trails. And when you get to steep up-hill climbs where you can open the throttle more in the mid RPM range, then the turbo will spool up and carry you up the hill. It definitely has the throttle response of a turbo vehicle, but it's not uncontrollable. It's just different. More/instant lower RPM gains of some of the superchargers would, of course, be noticeable, and allow you to be lazier about picking the "right" gear. But does that make the turbo "bad" for off road driving? Is a supercharger "necessary" for off road driving? This gets into the realm of personal preference and driving style.
Assumptions about the turbo only being good for high RPM horsepower: not quite correct. The turbo actually makes some huge mid-range torque/power. Especially in high load situations like freeway driving where the turbo gets a chance to really spool up at lower RPMs. Rolling on part-throttle around 2400 rpm on the freeway to accelerate up a hill will easily produce 6+ psi boost. I've seen 9+ psi boost as low as 3000 rpm. Of course the boost doesn't come instantly, because it does take some time to spool up, but it's quick enough to not be noticeable as lag with slower/smoother changes in pedal position that are typical of freeway driving. If you have an automatic transmission and really want to go, simply press the pedal further, the transmission will downshift, then the turbo will spool up quickly at higher RPM. If you have a manual transmission (like me), then you have to downshift and get the RPMs up higher when you want quicker throttle response.
Upgraded axles, etc., required to support the extra power, or to be able to put the power to the ground? My drivetrain is completely stock (including D30 in front), 3.21 gears, 33x12.5x15 Duratracs. I'm running Stage 2 with a boost controller for a little extra boost (same level of boost that gave Prodigy 427 hp and 418 ft-lbs at the wheels). On clean/dry roads, all my power is getting to the road without any issues. I simply avoid doing stupid things that would cause excessive shock loads on the drivetrain (no abusive launching, no power shifting, etc). Turbo power comes on more smoothly than similar amounts of NA or supercharged power because the turbo spools up over a short period of time instead of suddenly hammering the drivetrain with full power. For responsible street driving (don't be stupid), and moderate responsible off-road driving (don't be stupid), I don't think drivetrain upgrades are critical to handle the power.
Under-hood heat, coolant temperature, etc., has not been an issue for me in daily driving, moderate off-road trail driving, or running hard on the sand dunes. The only heat problem I've had so far was when I had the Stage 1 kit (no intercooler) and repeatedly accelerating up sand dunes on a hot summer day. My intake air temps got high enough to trigger a check engine light. No problems at all in similar situations with the Stage 2 kit (intercooled). So if you're going to run it hard, definitely get the Stage 2 kit. If you want extra piece of mind, get the pipes ceramic coated.
Off-road performance: If you have your axles geared properly for your tire size, then the stock engine most likely already performs great for slow off-road driving (assuming you make use of 4LO as necessary, don't unnecessarily lug it at low RPMs when you could downshift to access more of the engine's power). The exception might be more extreme rock crawling/bouncing obstacle type stuff, but I don't do that stuff, so I can't really say. For moderate trail driving type stuff, the turbo mostly does a great job of being transparent. No uncontrollable sudden spooling, etc. It just drives very easily on the trails. And when you get to steep up-hill climbs where you can open the throttle more in the mid RPM range, then the turbo will spool up and carry you up the hill. It definitely has the throttle response of a turbo vehicle, but it's not uncontrollable. It's just different. More/instant lower RPM gains of some of the superchargers would, of course, be noticeable, and allow you to be lazier about picking the "right" gear. But does that make the turbo "bad" for off road driving? Is a supercharger "necessary" for off road driving? This gets into the realm of personal preference and driving style.
Assumptions about the turbo only being good for high RPM horsepower: not quite correct. The turbo actually makes some huge mid-range torque/power. Especially in high load situations like freeway driving where the turbo gets a chance to really spool up at lower RPMs. Rolling on part-throttle around 2400 rpm on the freeway to accelerate up a hill will easily produce 6+ psi boost. I've seen 9+ psi boost as low as 3000 rpm. Of course the boost doesn't come instantly, because it does take some time to spool up, but it's quick enough to not be noticeable as lag with slower/smoother changes in pedal position that are typical of freeway driving. If you have an automatic transmission and really want to go, simply press the pedal further, the transmission will downshift, then the turbo will spool up quickly at higher RPM. If you have a manual transmission (like me), then you have to downshift and get the RPMs up higher when you want quicker throttle response.
Upgraded axles, etc., required to support the extra power, or to be able to put the power to the ground? My drivetrain is completely stock (including D30 in front), 3.21 gears, 33x12.5x15 Duratracs. I'm running Stage 2 with a boost controller for a little extra boost (same level of boost that gave Prodigy 427 hp and 418 ft-lbs at the wheels). On clean/dry roads, all my power is getting to the road without any issues. I simply avoid doing stupid things that would cause excessive shock loads on the drivetrain (no abusive launching, no power shifting, etc). Turbo power comes on more smoothly than similar amounts of NA or supercharged power because the turbo spools up over a short period of time instead of suddenly hammering the drivetrain with full power. For responsible street driving (don't be stupid), and moderate responsible off-road driving (don't be stupid), I don't think drivetrain upgrades are critical to handle the power.
12-14-2016, 03:01 AM
#18
JK Junkie
I realize I'm opening Pandora's box here, but it's a legit question. For the money you're going to invest in a turbo, you could drop in a late model VVT Hemi for the same or less. That's 395 HP and 410 on the torque. That will walk around a blown 3.6 and be a lot more fun and reliable. And if it matters, it adds a lot more value to your Jeep vs. a turbo should you ever want or need to sell it.
Engine: $1500
Trans: yours bolts up
Swap kit: $4000
Sale of current engine and trans: +$3000
Total investment: $2500.
Engine: $1500
Trans: yours bolts up
Swap kit: $4000
Sale of current engine and trans: +$3000
Total investment: $2500.
12-14-2016, 07:47 AM
#19
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
I realize I'm opening Pandora's box here, but it's a legit question. For the money you're going to invest in a turbo, you could drop in a late model VVT Hemi for the same or less. That's 395 HP and 410 on the torque. That will walk around a blown 3.6 and be a lot more fun and reliable. And if it matters, it adds a lot more value to your Jeep vs. a turbo should you ever want or need to sell it.
Engine: $1500
Trans: yours bolts up
Swap kit: $4000
Sale of current engine and trans: +$3000
Total investment: $2500.
Engine: $1500
Trans: yours bolts up
Swap kit: $4000
Sale of current engine and trans: +$3000
Total investment: $2500.
I guess it is like anything else... you have to pay to play... Nothing comes without issues (engine swaps, turbo/supercharge installs etc)...
There are plenty of guys running around with Procharger/RIPP setups that are really not that much cheaper than the Turbo kit (Used RIPPS are definitely cheaper I'm just talking new vs new)... and personally the turbo has it all over a centrifugal/roots blower (I have owned both on V'8s, just never on a 3.6)
If everything goes as planned I will give some honest feedback on the Turbo kit (install/the overheating concerns, high altitude adjustments etc)....
12-14-2016, 11:06 AM
#20
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I realize I'm opening Pandora's box here, but it's a legit question. For the money you're going to invest in a turbo, you could drop in a late model VVT Hemi for the same or less. That's 395 HP and 410 on the torque. That will walk around a blown 3.6 and be a lot more fun and reliable.
$1500 will probably get you a high mileage engine or one that needs some attention in one way or another before proceeding. Replacing a new low-mileage 3.6 V6 with an old high mileage small V8 that only makes about 39% more power seems pretty silly. Refurbished 5.7 Hemis are around $3000. But stilll... a lot of work for only 39% gain compared to bolt-on forced induction kits that produce bigger gains.
How can you sell your trans if you're reusing your trans
And I doubt you'll sell a used 3.6 engine for $3k. Rubitrux sells used 3.6s for $2999 with free shipping. As a private seller, you'll have to undercut that to compete and you'll lose on the cost of shipping if you can't sell locally.Conversion kits are more than $4k: [google shopping search link]
There's a lot more labor involved in a Hemi conversion compared to a bolt-on forced-induction kit. Forced induction kits are much more feasible as a weekend project for an amateur backyard mechanic. A v8 conversion requires another level of tools and skills that many people don't have.
Last edited by UselessPickles; 12-14-2016 at 06:27 PM. Reason: Corrected Hemi power at the wheels and % gain over stock