ATTENTION - Chrysler WILL VOID Your Warranty if You Lift Your Jeep
06-07-2010, 05:22 PM
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ATTENTION - Chrysler WILL VOID Your Warranty if You Lift Your Jeep
As some of you may recall, we had some issues with a dealership called Tuttle Click Jeep in Irvine, CA, where a negative customer evaluation I made regarding the service we received resulted in them profiling us and harassing us on a subsequent visit. If you are unfamiliar with what had happened, you can read all about it here:
Dealershi p Evalutation = Dealership Ha rassment
Of course, the whole point of me sharing our experience with Tuttle Click Jeep was to make sure you knew that your customer evaluations are NOT confidential and that the things you say regarding them can be held against you. And, unfortunately, the reason why I’m writing this article today is to also inform you that your customer evaluations can lead to very real dealership retaliations as well.
Being that we never got our fog lights turned on and that we still had what sounded like an exhaust leak we wanted to have looked at, we decided that it was time to start looking for a new dealership to take our Jeeps to. So, back on May 12th and thanks to a recommendation that we got from our good friend Moochie, we decided to take our 2009 Sunburst Orange Jeep JK Wrangler Unlimited X into Bob Baker Jeep which is located in Carlsbad, CA.
As we had been told, the staff was in fact very friendly and we felt comfortable leaving our Jeep in their hands. However, when I got a call from our service advisor this morning, I was told that our exhaust manifold was cracked and that they had the parts in stock but that it was going to cost us over $400 to fix. Surprised to hear this, I asked why it wasn’t being covered under warranty and she told me that her system indicated our Jeep wasn’t eligible for any warranty work. After hearing this, I explained that this was a 2009 and that was supposed to have a LIFETIME WARRANTY and so she asked me if we bought the Jeep new. I said yes and so she did a bit more digging around and found that a previous dealership had flagged our Jeep’s VIN and put a restriction on ALL future warranty claims due to the lift kit we had installed. When I pointed out that I wasn’t asking to have a suspension related component warranted, she quickly agreed but said that her hands were tied and that the most she could do is recommend that I call the Chrysler Dealer Complaint Line and explain our situation with them. The only way she could authorize warranty work to be done on our Jeep now is if Chrysler removed the restriction placed on our Jeep. Needless to say, as soon as I got off the phone with her, I made another call to Chrysler.
Back on the phone with Chrysler, I explained my situation to the Dealer Complaint representative that answered my call and as he was very sympathetic and understanding of my situation but unfortunately, he had to inform me that there was nothing he could do and that he would have to forward my case to a case manager. I let him know that I understood and decided to call Bob Baker back to let them know what was going on and much to my surprise, my service advisor informed me that a quick inspection revealed that my exhaust manifold bolts had come loose a bit and tightening them up back to spec seemed to fix the leak I had. Best part was, the fix was only going to cost $45.
About a week after picking up our Jeep from Bob Baker, I got a call from an irritable Chrysler Case Manager by the name of Blade, #BB879 (I was informed that they are not allowed to give out last names), who promptly informed me that he wasn’t sure why he was given my case, that his job was to oversees the training of representatives and that there was nothing he could do for me. In short, this was his only purpose for calling me and he didn’t want to hear a word I might have to say. When I pressed him on who I should speak to regarding this matter, he informed me that I needed to write a letter and mail it to Chrysler and it’s what I should have done in the first place. And, after obtaining the address I needed, I did just that. I summarized my experience on paper, put it in an envelope, placed a 1st class stamp on it and mailed it off.
Long story short, if you’re unhappy with the service you receive at your dealership, you’re better off just keeping your mouth shut. Chrysler IS NOT your friend and customer evaluations are NOT kept confidential. Anything you say can and will be used against you by your dealership. So, the next time you get a survey in the mail, I’d toss it in the trash and if Chrysler calls you to do a survey, just tell them you aren’t interested - trust me, it just isn’t worth it.
See post below as a lot more has happend since I sent off this letter. I will be posting up a follow up to my Chrysler Warranty nightmare shortly.
Dealershi p Evalutation = Dealership Ha rassment
Of course, the whole point of me sharing our experience with Tuttle Click Jeep was to make sure you knew that your customer evaluations are NOT confidential and that the things you say regarding them can be held against you. And, unfortunately, the reason why I’m writing this article today is to also inform you that your customer evaluations can lead to very real dealership retaliations as well.
Being that we never got our fog lights turned on and that we still had what sounded like an exhaust leak we wanted to have looked at, we decided that it was time to start looking for a new dealership to take our Jeeps to. So, back on May 12th and thanks to a recommendation that we got from our good friend Moochie, we decided to take our 2009 Sunburst Orange Jeep JK Wrangler Unlimited X into Bob Baker Jeep which is located in Carlsbad, CA.
As we had been told, the staff was in fact very friendly and we felt comfortable leaving our Jeep in their hands. However, when I got a call from our service advisor this morning, I was told that our exhaust manifold was cracked and that they had the parts in stock but that it was going to cost us over $400 to fix. Surprised to hear this, I asked why it wasn’t being covered under warranty and she told me that her system indicated our Jeep wasn’t eligible for any warranty work. After hearing this, I explained that this was a 2009 and that was supposed to have a LIFETIME WARRANTY and so she asked me if we bought the Jeep new. I said yes and so she did a bit more digging around and found that a previous dealership had flagged our Jeep’s VIN and put a restriction on ALL future warranty claims due to the lift kit we had installed. When I pointed out that I wasn’t asking to have a suspension related component warranted, she quickly agreed but said that her hands were tied and that the most she could do is recommend that I call the Chrysler Dealer Complaint Line and explain our situation with them. The only way she could authorize warranty work to be done on our Jeep now is if Chrysler removed the restriction placed on our Jeep. Needless to say, as soon as I got off the phone with her, I made another call to Chrysler.
Back on the phone with Chrysler, I explained my situation to the Dealer Complaint representative that answered my call and as he was very sympathetic and understanding of my situation but unfortunately, he had to inform me that there was nothing he could do and that he would have to forward my case to a case manager. I let him know that I understood and decided to call Bob Baker back to let them know what was going on and much to my surprise, my service advisor informed me that a quick inspection revealed that my exhaust manifold bolts had come loose a bit and tightening them up back to spec seemed to fix the leak I had. Best part was, the fix was only going to cost $45.
About a week after picking up our Jeep from Bob Baker, I got a call from an irritable Chrysler Case Manager by the name of Blade, #BB879 (I was informed that they are not allowed to give out last names), who promptly informed me that he wasn’t sure why he was given my case, that his job was to oversees the training of representatives and that there was nothing he could do for me. In short, this was his only purpose for calling me and he didn’t want to hear a word I might have to say. When I pressed him on who I should speak to regarding this matter, he informed me that I needed to write a letter and mail it to Chrysler and it’s what I should have done in the first place. And, after obtaining the address I needed, I did just that. I summarized my experience on paper, put it in an envelope, placed a 1st class stamp on it and mailed it off.
May 13, 2010
Chrysler Group LLC
P.O. Box 21-8004
Auburn Hills, MI 48321
Dear Chrysler,
I am writing you today in hopes that you might be able to assist me in having a warranty restriction that was apparently placed on my 2009 Jeep Wrangler removed. I feel that this restriction was placed unfairly and unjustly as a means of retribution from Tuttle Click Jeep located in Irvine, CA.
To summarize the circumstances regarding my Jeep, I purchased it new from Orange Coast Jeep in Costa Mesa, CA, back in June 2009. In August of 2009, I did have a 3” lift and 35” tires installed on it and in late September of 2009, I noticed that I was having some handling and ride quality issues. After doing an extensive check of all the suspension components, I found that the ball joints might be worn out. On October 11, 2010, I took my 4 month old Jeep with only 7,500 miles on it into Tuttle Click Jeep to have them check my ball joints and verify my diagnosis. When I dropped off my Jeep that morning, I was told that I would be getting a call back that afternoon to let me know what was going on but unfortunately, that call never came. Having still not getting a call from them by the following morning, I decided to call them to find out what was going on. At that point and time, I was told that the ball joints were in fact bad and that they needed to be replaced. When I asked if this was something that could be covered under warranty, I was told no due to the lift kit that I had installed. When I had explained that the lift kit had only been on for a couple of months and a couple thousand miles, my service advisor suggested that I call the Chrysler Complaint Line and provided me with the number.
When I called the Chrysler Complaint Line, I explained my situation to them and after being put me on hold for a period of time, the representative came back and told me that he spoke with Tuttle Click and said that the reason they would not warranty the ball joints is due to the lift I had installed. When I asked how this alone would cause my ball joints to fail so quickly, he stated that the technician at Tuttle Click indicated that I “did not have a heavy duty steering stabilizer installed”. Surprised to hear this, I informed the representative that I own multiple Jeeps, one of which is a 2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited just like the one I was trying to have serviced and that it’s been riding on over 5” of lift, 37” tires and a stock steering stabilizer for close to three years and without any ball joint problems. I also explained that I’ve had a rear locker and a steering box replaced without any issues on my 2007 Jeep Wrangler in spite of the lift kit and large tires. He apologized, informed me that there wasn’t anything more that he could do and recommended that I take my Jeep to another dealership for a second opinion. He explained that each dealership is independently owned and operated and that I might have better luck with them. I let the representative know that I was very frustrated at the situation and was very much inconvenienced by Tuttle Click not calling me back when they said they would and it was at this point that the representative asked if I wanted to file a complaint. I agreed, he took my information, repeated it to me and then told me that “I would be heard”. From there, I went back to Tuttle Click, picked up my Jeep and proceeded to replace the $80 ball joints myself.
Fast forward to March 17, 2010, I took my Jeep back to Tuttle click to have a pair of factory headlights that I had installed on my 2009 Jeep Wrangler turned on and to have what I thought sounded like an exhaust leak looked at. As I started to explain to the service advisor what I’d like to have them do, he got interrupted by a phone call from someone who proceeds to ask him a series of questions about me and why I was there. After the service advisor got off the phone, he started to interrogate me as to why I gave them a “zero” the last time I was there. Unsure of what he meant, I ask him to clarify his question and he rudely explained that I gave them a negative review and wanted to know why. When I asked who called him and why was he now harassing me, he informed me that it was his service manager and so I asked if I could speak to him in person. After being lead to his office, I asked the service manager if it’s the policy of Tuttle Click Jeep to profile customers and harass them in the manner that they were doing and he responded by saying that he just happened to recognize my Jeep and wanted to know why I “dinked” them. He explained to me that I caused them financial hardship and was unhappy about it. I in turn let him know that while I did agree to have a formal complaint filed against them, I was unaware that it would cause them to get “dinked” and that I had no real idea of what that even meant. Distraught by the confrontation, my wife asked that we just leave and so we did. Once I got home, I called the Chrysler Dealership Complaint Line again, informed them of what had happened and expressed my frustration at the fact that my previous complaint was not confidential and how it was now being used to harass and intimidate me.
Unfortunately, due to work and travel, I had not been able to address the fog lights or exhaust manifold again until Tuesday, May 11, 2010. Thanks to a recommendation from a friend, I decided to take my Jeep into Bob Baker Jeep which is located in Carlsbad, CA. As luck would have it, the staff there was in fact very friendly and I felt very comfortable leaving our Jeep in their hands. However, when I got a scheduled call from our service advisor the next morning, I was told that our exhaust manifold was cracked, that they had the parts in stock but that it was going to cost us over $400 to fix. Surprised to hear this, I asked why it wasn’t being covered under warranty and I was told that their system indicated our Jeep wasn’t eligible for ANY warranty work. When I explained that I had a 2009 and that should have a LIFETIME WARRANTY, they explained that their system showed that a previous dealership had “flagged” our Jeep’s VIN and put a restriction on ALL future warranty claims due to the lift kit we had installed. When I pointed out that I wasn’t asking to have a suspension related component warranted, she agreed but said that her hands were unfortunately tied and that the most she could do is recommend that I call the Chrysler Dealer Complaint Line and explain our situation to them. Apparently, the only way she could authorize warranty work to be done on our Jeep now is if Chrysler removed the restriction that Tuttle Click Jeep placed on our Jeep.
Needless to say, I called the Chrysler Dealer Complaint line on May 12, 2010 and proceeded to explain my situation to them once again. After a very sympathetic representative took down my information, I was told that there was nothing that he could do and that a case manager would get back to me with in the next 48 hours. And, on May 13, 2010, I did get a call but from an irritable case manager by the name of Blade #BB879 who proceeded to inform me that there was nothing he could do, that my case should have never of been sent to him in the first place and that he was only addressing me as a matter of training. When I asked if there was anyone else I could talk to regarding my situation, I was told that I should send a letter to you and so, here I am.
If you would be so kind as to hear me out, I am respectfully asking that you please review my case and reconsider the warranty restriction that has been placed on my Jeep. I fully accept and understand that some dealerships are unwilling to warranty parts and components due to the lift that I have installed on my Jeep but from my own experience, I know for a fact that some will. Unfortunately, with this restriction in place, I cannot have ANY warranty work done regardless if it’s suspension related or not. I would also like to point out that it had been my impression that a customer complaint or dealership evaluation was something that was made in confidence and would something that Chrysler used to help improve customer service. Had I known these complaints and evaluations are not confidential and that making one would result in the kind of vengeful retribution that I am now suffering, I honestly would have just kept my mouth shut. Certainly, I never expected that I would lose my entire warranty over something like this and over something that I was actually encouraged to do.
I appreciate your time and consideration.
Sincerely,
Eddie
Chrysler Group LLC
P.O. Box 21-8004
Auburn Hills, MI 48321
Dear Chrysler,
I am writing you today in hopes that you might be able to assist me in having a warranty restriction that was apparently placed on my 2009 Jeep Wrangler removed. I feel that this restriction was placed unfairly and unjustly as a means of retribution from Tuttle Click Jeep located in Irvine, CA.
To summarize the circumstances regarding my Jeep, I purchased it new from Orange Coast Jeep in Costa Mesa, CA, back in June 2009. In August of 2009, I did have a 3” lift and 35” tires installed on it and in late September of 2009, I noticed that I was having some handling and ride quality issues. After doing an extensive check of all the suspension components, I found that the ball joints might be worn out. On October 11, 2010, I took my 4 month old Jeep with only 7,500 miles on it into Tuttle Click Jeep to have them check my ball joints and verify my diagnosis. When I dropped off my Jeep that morning, I was told that I would be getting a call back that afternoon to let me know what was going on but unfortunately, that call never came. Having still not getting a call from them by the following morning, I decided to call them to find out what was going on. At that point and time, I was told that the ball joints were in fact bad and that they needed to be replaced. When I asked if this was something that could be covered under warranty, I was told no due to the lift kit that I had installed. When I had explained that the lift kit had only been on for a couple of months and a couple thousand miles, my service advisor suggested that I call the Chrysler Complaint Line and provided me with the number.
When I called the Chrysler Complaint Line, I explained my situation to them and after being put me on hold for a period of time, the representative came back and told me that he spoke with Tuttle Click and said that the reason they would not warranty the ball joints is due to the lift I had installed. When I asked how this alone would cause my ball joints to fail so quickly, he stated that the technician at Tuttle Click indicated that I “did not have a heavy duty steering stabilizer installed”. Surprised to hear this, I informed the representative that I own multiple Jeeps, one of which is a 2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited just like the one I was trying to have serviced and that it’s been riding on over 5” of lift, 37” tires and a stock steering stabilizer for close to three years and without any ball joint problems. I also explained that I’ve had a rear locker and a steering box replaced without any issues on my 2007 Jeep Wrangler in spite of the lift kit and large tires. He apologized, informed me that there wasn’t anything more that he could do and recommended that I take my Jeep to another dealership for a second opinion. He explained that each dealership is independently owned and operated and that I might have better luck with them. I let the representative know that I was very frustrated at the situation and was very much inconvenienced by Tuttle Click not calling me back when they said they would and it was at this point that the representative asked if I wanted to file a complaint. I agreed, he took my information, repeated it to me and then told me that “I would be heard”. From there, I went back to Tuttle Click, picked up my Jeep and proceeded to replace the $80 ball joints myself.
Fast forward to March 17, 2010, I took my Jeep back to Tuttle click to have a pair of factory headlights that I had installed on my 2009 Jeep Wrangler turned on and to have what I thought sounded like an exhaust leak looked at. As I started to explain to the service advisor what I’d like to have them do, he got interrupted by a phone call from someone who proceeds to ask him a series of questions about me and why I was there. After the service advisor got off the phone, he started to interrogate me as to why I gave them a “zero” the last time I was there. Unsure of what he meant, I ask him to clarify his question and he rudely explained that I gave them a negative review and wanted to know why. When I asked who called him and why was he now harassing me, he informed me that it was his service manager and so I asked if I could speak to him in person. After being lead to his office, I asked the service manager if it’s the policy of Tuttle Click Jeep to profile customers and harass them in the manner that they were doing and he responded by saying that he just happened to recognize my Jeep and wanted to know why I “dinked” them. He explained to me that I caused them financial hardship and was unhappy about it. I in turn let him know that while I did agree to have a formal complaint filed against them, I was unaware that it would cause them to get “dinked” and that I had no real idea of what that even meant. Distraught by the confrontation, my wife asked that we just leave and so we did. Once I got home, I called the Chrysler Dealership Complaint Line again, informed them of what had happened and expressed my frustration at the fact that my previous complaint was not confidential and how it was now being used to harass and intimidate me.
Unfortunately, due to work and travel, I had not been able to address the fog lights or exhaust manifold again until Tuesday, May 11, 2010. Thanks to a recommendation from a friend, I decided to take my Jeep into Bob Baker Jeep which is located in Carlsbad, CA. As luck would have it, the staff there was in fact very friendly and I felt very comfortable leaving our Jeep in their hands. However, when I got a scheduled call from our service advisor the next morning, I was told that our exhaust manifold was cracked, that they had the parts in stock but that it was going to cost us over $400 to fix. Surprised to hear this, I asked why it wasn’t being covered under warranty and I was told that their system indicated our Jeep wasn’t eligible for ANY warranty work. When I explained that I had a 2009 and that should have a LIFETIME WARRANTY, they explained that their system showed that a previous dealership had “flagged” our Jeep’s VIN and put a restriction on ALL future warranty claims due to the lift kit we had installed. When I pointed out that I wasn’t asking to have a suspension related component warranted, she agreed but said that her hands were unfortunately tied and that the most she could do is recommend that I call the Chrysler Dealer Complaint Line and explain our situation to them. Apparently, the only way she could authorize warranty work to be done on our Jeep now is if Chrysler removed the restriction that Tuttle Click Jeep placed on our Jeep.
Needless to say, I called the Chrysler Dealer Complaint line on May 12, 2010 and proceeded to explain my situation to them once again. After a very sympathetic representative took down my information, I was told that there was nothing that he could do and that a case manager would get back to me with in the next 48 hours. And, on May 13, 2010, I did get a call but from an irritable case manager by the name of Blade #BB879 who proceeded to inform me that there was nothing he could do, that my case should have never of been sent to him in the first place and that he was only addressing me as a matter of training. When I asked if there was anyone else I could talk to regarding my situation, I was told that I should send a letter to you and so, here I am.
If you would be so kind as to hear me out, I am respectfully asking that you please review my case and reconsider the warranty restriction that has been placed on my Jeep. I fully accept and understand that some dealerships are unwilling to warranty parts and components due to the lift that I have installed on my Jeep but from my own experience, I know for a fact that some will. Unfortunately, with this restriction in place, I cannot have ANY warranty work done regardless if it’s suspension related or not. I would also like to point out that it had been my impression that a customer complaint or dealership evaluation was something that was made in confidence and would something that Chrysler used to help improve customer service. Had I known these complaints and evaluations are not confidential and that making one would result in the kind of vengeful retribution that I am now suffering, I honestly would have just kept my mouth shut. Certainly, I never expected that I would lose my entire warranty over something like this and over something that I was actually encouraged to do.
I appreciate your time and consideration.
Sincerely,
Eddie
See post below as a lot more has happend since I sent off this letter. I will be posting up a follow up to my Chrysler Warranty nightmare shortly.
Last edited by DesertJeep; 05-21-2013 at 07:49 AM.
06-07-2010, 05:22 PM
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On May 26th, I got a call from a very nice gal named Stephanie who informed me that Chrysler received my letter and that she was given the responsibility of handling my case. Once again, I explain what I had been going through to her and she was very understanding and sympathetic about my situation. In fact, she went so far as to apologize for the trouble I had been going through and informed me that she would try to have the work I had done at Bob Baker refunded to me. Surprised by what I was hearing, I thanked her for all her help and asked if there was anything she could do to have the mark on my Jeep removed. Unfortunately, she let me know that was not something she was able to do but, she said that she would look into it and get back to me as soon as possible.
Fast forward to June 4th. Just when I was about to give up hope on Stephanie, I get a call from her to first let me know that the charges for the work I had done at Bob Baker were going to be refunded and that I should be getting a check for it soon. Unfortunately, she also informed me that the only way I could get the mark removed from my Jeep was for me is to contact what she referred to as, a “Business Center”. When I asked her how I could contact them, she let me know that I needed to have Tuttle Click contact them for me and work through them to have the mark reversed. When I explained that they were the reason why I had the mark in the first place and that I would prefer not to deal with them, she apologized and let me know that was the most she could do. After thanking Stephanie again, I hung up the phone and decided to try a new approach - go directly to the top…. if I could.
After doing a lot of research online, I managed to find what appeared to be an email contact to Sergio Marchionne, the current CEO of Chrysler Group, LLC as well as a contact for C. Robert Kidder who is the current Chairman of the Board. Granted, the email addresses weren’t theirs specifically but, I figured they were better than nothing. Anyway, I sent off the following email back on June 4, 2010:
Today, I received a call from a Chrysler representatives by the name of Mayone who informed me that she received the email I sent. Being all business, she cut to the chase, promptly informed me that the mark I have against my Jeep was given as a result of the lift that I have on it. She said that Chrysler would still warranty any work my Jeep may need so long as it had nothing to do with the suspension. I let her know that the work I was attempting to have fixed under warranty was an exhaust manifold that was apparently leaking. Much to my surprise, she agreed that this should have been covered being that it was a part of the the emissions system. I let her know that's how I saw it but was unable to have the work done in spite of the fact and that it was because my Jeep had been "flagged". She informed me that a dealership needs to go through a process of which included the need to prove that the lift kit on my Jeep caused the damage to the part in question. I let her know that this was my understanding as well but that Bob Baker told me that the exhaust manifold fell under the "Powertrain" portion of the warranty and, being that the mark my Jeep has is against the powertrain, they would not be able to help me. Upon hearing this, Mayone asked if she could look into this and call me back.
15 minutes later, Mayone called me back as promised and let me know that she verified that the exhaust manifold was in fact a part of the powertrain. Apparently, everything from the catalytic converter back is considered to be emissions and therefore, my exhaust manifold would not be covered. Upon hearing this, I said fine and reminded her of what she had stated in our previous conversation regarding proof and the need to provide evidence that my lift was directly responsible for my exhaust leak. To this, she said that the lift kit was the evidence. Stupefied by the answer, I paused and then asked... how? Following a condescending chuckle, Mayone informed me that "installing a lift changes the torque on the transmission and that is what caused my exhaust manifold leak." Dumbfounded by this response, I asked Mayone if she could explain what she just said again. Annoyed, she proceeds to tell me with a sharp tone that she's "not making this up" and that this is common knowledge. She goes on to say something to the effect that "if people want to lift their Jeeps, hey, Chrysler can't stop them but they need to know that their warranty will be voided if they do". I tried to respond by telling her about the Jeeps I own, about how built up they are and how I've been able to get warranty work done on them and without any troubles in the past. I start to explain how it was because of Tuttle Click flagging my Jeep that I was in this mess now and if it weren't for the formal complaint I made against them, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I explain how if I had known that I would be going through all this trouble over a stupid complaint that I was encouraged to make by a service advisor, I would have just kept my mouth shut. Frustrated with me, Mayone began to interupt me and so I let her know that I thought she was being rude. To this, she snapped at me and that's when I decided to ask for her representative number. I let her know that I knew she's not allowed to give me her last name but that I would appreciate it if she could give me her representative number and this is when she said "have a good day" and hung the phone up on me. Yes, you heard right, a direct representative of Sergio Marchionne, the current CEO of Chrysler Group, LLC or C. Robert Kidder, the current Chairman of the Board just hung up the phone on me just and because I asked for her representative number.
I've got to be honest and tell you that deciding to write these articles was one of the hardest things I've ever done. I absolutely love all my Jeeps, the Jeep culture and the Jeep lifestyle. I have always been a loyal fan and huge supporter of the brand but I have to say that this recent experience has left a really bad taste in my mouth. Certainly, in all these years, I never thought there would be a day where the company who makes the vehicle I love so much would snub me in the way that they have, without merit and right from the top. The crazy thing is, I don't have a problem with not being able to get my Jeep fixed under warranty. Heck, Jeeps are so modified that there wouldn't be much to get fixed under warranty. If proof can be shown that a modification I made caused a part to fail, I am fully willing to accept that it cannot be fixed under warranty. I just don't think it's right for Chrysler to be able to make the broad strokes that they have with their definition of "powertrain", effectively making it so that nothing can get fixed under warranty if they want. Likewise, I am trouble by the fact that Chrysler allows dealerships to flag customer Jeep's preventing them from getting any warranty work done anywhere. Last but not least, I am deeply trouble by the fact that customer evaluations are not kept confidential but can and will be used against you if you file a formal complaint against a dealership. Suffice it to say, I felt that the readers of Project-JK.com and the members of JK-Forum.com needed to hear about my experiences and see the truth about Chrysler, the way they handle their customer evaluations, the warrantees they pretend they have, the unwillingness they have to stand behind them and the eagerness they have to permanently void them the first chance they get.
As I’ve mentioned several times before, be careful what you say and when in doubt, just keep your mouth shut. Chrysler may make one the best off road vehicle on the face of the planet but unfortuantely, they are no friend of yours.
ADDENDUM - 06/09/2010
Scarlet Letters are Chrysler Policy
If you can believe it, I just got a call from Chrysler and spent the last half hour or so on the phone talking to a guy named Nate. Apparently, Mayone answers to him and my articles here on Project-JK.com, the thread I started over on JK-Forum.com and all the emails you sent on my behalf compelled him to make this call. While my conversation with him was professional, agreeable and in a surprising way, even somewhat enjoyable, this is what I got out of it.
Long story short, I was told that it’s Chrysler’s policy to have dealerships immediately flag any and all Jeeps that comes in and can be identified as having been modified. Apparently, this scarlet letter is placed on your VIN as a way to help all dealerships know that your Jeep needs to be reviewed prior to having any warranty work performed as the part you are hoping to have fixed or replaced most likely failed due to those modifications. I specifically asked and have confirmed that this would apply to ANY lifted Jeep regardless of height or even if the lift in question was a Mopar kit. Yes, you heard right, even a Mopar kit installed by a dealership is supposed to be flagged.
Having said that, I think it’s clear that many dealerships do not adhere to this policy and the proof of this is, there are many of you out there who have highly modified Jeeps and get warranty work done all the time and without issue. Certainly, I’ve had my own 2007 Rubicon Unlimited serviced under warranty on more than one occasion and without incident and in spite of the fact that it is highly modified. Of course, when I confronted Nate with this point, his answer to me was that he didn’t have an answer and that all our Jeeps should have been flagged. Fortunately, the reality of life is that there are dealerships out there who understand that most of their customers do not come in to have warranty work done but rather, come in to have their oil changed, tires rotated and have routine maintenance performed on a regular basis. These dealerships understand that providing good service is important not only to keep customers coming back but rather, it can help them generate more business through word of mouth recommendations. If every dealership went around flagging every modified Jeep that came in to their doors, that would effectively make it more difficult for them to perform warranty work if and when needed and I can only imagine how that would sit with their loyal customers. Having said all that, the one thing I was able to verify for sure is that the Tuttle Click Jeep in Irvine, CA, is ultimately responsible for the flag I now have on my orange Jeep JK Wrangler Unlimited.
Regarding the matter of why Tuttle Click chose to flag my Jeep, what I can tell you is that Nate confirmed that my customer evaluation was in fact recorded and shared with them. Apparently, this is standard practice and intentionally done as a way to help improve customer service. I was told that a message should have informed me that I was to be recorded but Nate admitted that no information regarding the confidentiality of my call or how it was to be used was provided. When I informed him of how my call was ultimately used to harass and intimidate me, he apologized and let me know that’s not how it was supposed to work but, that he could see how something like this could be twisted in this way. When I asked Nate if it was possible that Tuttle Click flagged my jeep out of retribution for my customer evaluation, he insisted that it was their obligated to flag my Jeep the minute they noticed it was lifted and regardless of the purpose of my visit. In response to this, I reminded him of the highly modified 2007 JK Rubicon Unlimited I have and how I was able to get a new locker and steering box replaced under warranty at another dealership and let him know that no flag that I know of exists over it. And to this, he said that the dealership in question should have flagged it. He even suggested that it was possible unsanctioned under the table dealings might be at play but that standard policy is to flag any modified Jeep and subject it to review prior to doing warranty work. Funny thing is, I don’t doubt it for a second that under the table dealings happen all the time and that dealerships do it to find ways to keep loyal customers happy. The only problem is, I now see they also happen all the time to people like me and just because of an honest evaluation I made that ultimately hurt them. At least, that’s the way looks to me.
So where does this leave me? Well, if you haven’t guessed it already, nowhere. I still have a scarlet letter on my Jeep and one that Chrysler is unwilling to remove. I was told that any future warranty work I might want to have done would be met with a road block that requires a thorough review of the part in question. I was told that aside from anything suspension related, warranty work should be allowed and that would apply to something like my exhaust manifold as well. If the work were to be denied, proof would have to be offered but that I would be at the mercy of their technicians to make the call. As a gesture of good will, Nate did give me his personal number and informed me that I should call him if I had any problems like this again. He let me know that being in the position that he’s in, this isn’t something he would normally do but given the circumstances, would be sure to help me. And, while I’m infinitely grateful for his offer of help, I find that I’m still troubled that it took so much effort to get and I’m also left to wonder if I would have gotten anything at all had I not been in the position that I’m in.
Not that this needs to be reiterated but, I’ll say it once again, if you’re unhappy with the service you received at your dealership, you’re better off just keeping your mouth shut. Again, Chrysler IS NOT your friend here and customer evaluations are NOT kept confidential. Anything you say can and will be used against you by your dealership and that can lead to your Jeep getting flagged. Remember, it is Chrysler’s policy to flag ANY and ALL Jeeps that have been modified regardless of the kit or who installed it. If your Jeep hasn’t been flagged already, don’t give your dealership any reason to give it one. A member of JK-Forum.com suggested that my plight was the result of me stepping on the toes of Tuttle Click and to that, I say he’s probably right. Not that I should care but clearly, when it comes to dealerships, customer satisfaction is not what’s most important but rather, you giving them high praise to Chrysler is. That is, it is if don’t want to loose your warranty anyway.
ADDENDUM - 06/10/2010
The Proof is in the Records
This morning, an interesting question was asked of me over on JK-Forum.com and it was one that I can honestly say I didn’t know the answer to. In fact, I wasn’t even sure if it was something that I wanted to know given that the answer had the potential to change the circumstances of things and put into question what I have been saying over the past few months. You see, the question asked was this - when did my Jeep actually get flagged? Was it on October 11, 2009, back when I first brought my Jeep into Tuttle Click and was first identified as being modified? According to the official policy of Chrysler, that is when it should have happend and if it did, it would prove that the flag on my Jeep was not administered by Tuttle Click as a form of retribution. Of course, if my Jeep was flagged on a much later date - oh, say maybe after a certain negative customer survey was filed with Chrysler, that would offer even more proof to the claims that I have been making all along. So, how was I going to be able to find out for sure?
Being that I never received an official notification in writing or otherwise regarding when and why my Jeep was flagged, I had assumed that finding out the answer to this question was going to take some leg work. Forutnately for me, Nate at Chrysler has been following the discussion over on JK-Forum.com and he already had a good idea that I would be contacting him soon. Needless to say, he was ready for me and soon after sending him an email regarding this matter, I received a phone call from him.
So, what was the answer to the million dollar question…… March 23, 2010.
While my Jeep still has a flag on it, one that I still feel was given unjustly and one that Chrysler is still unwilling to remove, I think it is very clear that my Jeep DID NOT receive it as part of routine policy enforcement but rather, as a form of dealership retribution.
If there is a bright side to all this, I will have to say that my recent conversations with Nate have been surprisingly pleasant and productive. More than anything, I am really encouraged by his eagerness and willingness to listen to not only my concerns but the concerns of JK-Forum.com members as well. It is my hope that there are more people like Nate within the Chrysler Corporation and if there are, it would go a long way in helping to restore my faith in them.
ADDENDUM - 06/22/2010
The Flag Has Been Lowered!!
As I have stated many times before over the last couple weeks, when in doubt, it’s best just keep your mouth shut. Trust me, no matter how bad of an experience you may of had with your dealership, providing a customer evaluation that’s anything less than stellar will come back to bite you. Your evaluations are NOT confidential, are purposefully shared with your dealership and believe me, if your review causes them to feel any pain, they will do what they can to return the favor. In my case, the dealership in question was Tuttle Click Jeep in Irvine, CA, and they decided to retaliate against me by placing a “flag”, or what Chrysler refers to as a “restriction” on my Jeep.
Now, while Chrysler will try and suggest that a restriction should only require a dealership to closely inspect any aftermarket modifications that you might have made prior to performing any warranty work, the reality of it is, your Jeep will be seen by ALL dealerships as having NO warranty at all. Essentially, you are guilty until proven innocent or, more specifically, your warranty will be voided until you jump through hoops just to get Chrysler to review your case. At least, that’s what happened to me and what I had to go through before I could get Chrysler to finally admit that an exhaust manifold leak I paid to have fixed at another dealership should have been covered under warranty. While I was refunded for the charges, I was dismayed to find out that the wrongful restriction placed on my Jeep was still in place and that’s when I decided to write about my experiences and fight to have it removed.
After doing some research online, I decided to try and send an email directly to Sergio Marchionne, the current CEO of Chrysler Group, LLC as well as C. Robert Kidder who is the current Chairman of the Board. As luck would have it, this put me in touch with the Head of Top Care at Chrysler and thus began a two week long dialogue that was certainly frustrating at times but, ultimately proved to be an educational experience. During this time, I learned a whole lot about warranty restrictions and the fact that the one placed on my Jeep was clearly given as a form of retribution. However, in spite of the fact that my restriction was wrongfully given, I was told that it would not be removed as my Jeep was still modified and therefore should have been restricted anyway. As Chrysler would explain, they have a policy that requires all dealerships to apply restrictions on any customer vehicle if it is determined that it has been modified.
Fortunately for me, I have the wonderful support of the members on JK-Forum.com and thanks their keen attention to detail, I was shown that no such policy was listed in the Jeep owners warranty handbook. Sure, there are sections that go over what would be covered under warranty, what wouldn’t be and there’s even a section that covers restrictions. However, this section clearly states that restrictions would only apply to vehicles that have been neglected, abused or not properly maintained. Absolutely NO language exists regarding modified vehicles or that they should be restricted just because of it and to be quite honest, I don’t see how there could be without it standing in direct conflict of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)). Needless to say, I made to sure let Chrysler know as much.
In the end, this is what would make all the difference. Even after their lawyers spent days looking into this matter, Chrysler ultimately came to the conclusion that the restriction placed on my Jeep had no merit and, as a result, finally decided to lift it. Yes, you heard right, my 2009 Jeep JK Wrangler Unlimited X once again has a clean record, has no restrictions placed on it and, a call I made to 877-I-AM-JEEP this morning confirmed as much!
While justice prevailed, it certainly wasn’t without its trials. And, if you wish to avoid all the trouble I had to go through, please try to learn from my experiences. When in doubt, keep your mouth shut, refuse to participate in any customer evaluation you might get by phone and toss the ones you get by mail in the trash. If I had known what I know now, that’s what I would have done and will do from here on out.
SPECIAL THANKS: I would like to take a moment and thank everyone for all the encouragement and support I received during this crazy ordeal. I would also like to thank Nate over at Chrysler for all his help. Unlike some of the people I’ve had to deal with over at Chrysler, Nate was always professional, friendly and really went out of his way to help me out and for that, I’m grateful.
BY REQUEST: From what i have found, this guy answers for both Sergio Marchionne, CEO and C. Robert Kidder, Chairman of the Board:
gualberto.ranieri@chrysler.com
Fast forward to June 4th. Just when I was about to give up hope on Stephanie, I get a call from her to first let me know that the charges for the work I had done at Bob Baker were going to be refunded and that I should be getting a check for it soon. Unfortunately, she also informed me that the only way I could get the mark removed from my Jeep was for me is to contact what she referred to as, a “Business Center”. When I asked her how I could contact them, she let me know that I needed to have Tuttle Click contact them for me and work through them to have the mark reversed. When I explained that they were the reason why I had the mark in the first place and that I would prefer not to deal with them, she apologized and let me know that was the most she could do. After thanking Stephanie again, I hung up the phone and decided to try a new approach - go directly to the top…. if I could.
After doing a lot of research online, I managed to find what appeared to be an email contact to Sergio Marchionne, the current CEO of Chrysler Group, LLC as well as a contact for C. Robert Kidder who is the current Chairman of the Board. Granted, the email addresses weren’t theirs specifically but, I figured they were better than nothing. Anyway, I sent off the following email back on June 4, 2010:
Dear Sergio Marchionne,
I am writing you today in regards to Chrysler Case #19566798 and I’m hoping that you might be able to assist me. In a nutshell, I’m desperately trying to have a mark reversed that was applied against one of my three Jeeps. This mark was unjustly given as a form of retribution and now prevents me from having any warranty work performed on my Jeep at any dealership and all because of an honest formal complaint that I filed against Tuttle Click Jeep in Irvine, CA. Apparently, my complaint resulted in them getting “dinked” as they put it and this caused them to endure financial hardship.
Please note that I have already spoken to several Chrysler Dealer Complaint Center representatives regarding this matter but was ultimately told that I needed to speak with a case manager. After speaking to a case manager, I was told that I needed to write a letter directly to Chrysler Group, LLC. I did just that and eventually got a call from a representative who then told me that I needed to speak to what she referred to as, a “Business Center”. Unfortunately, I was told that the only way I could speak to them is to contact the dealership that punished me for apparently hurting them. Needless to say, I hope you can be understanding of my reluctance to speak with them and why I am contacting you directly now.
As mentioned, I am a proud owner of several Jeeps the first of which is a 2009 Jeep JK Wrangler Unlimited X, the second a 2007 JK Rubicon Unlimited and the third a 1997 XJ Cherokee. In the past, I have owned a 2000 TJ Wrangler Sport of which I just sold a few months ago, a 1994 XJ Cherokee 2-door and a beautiful 1981 CJ7. I have always been a loyal fan of the Jeep brand, I’m currently in the business of helping to promote it and in all my years of being a Jeep owner, I can tell you that I’ve never experienced anything quite like this before and to be honest, find it quite troubling. Believe me, had I known that a complaint made in an customer evaluation could result in the loss of my Jeep’s warranty, I would have just kept my mouth shut. In fact, it is what I currently advise all my readers to do now as well.
In short, all I’m asking is for you to do is review my case and if at all possible, I would be grateful if you could help me to have the mark placed against my Jeep reversed. If needed, I can provided you with names, dates and any other details you might need concerning this matter.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Sincerely,
Eddie
I am writing you today in regards to Chrysler Case #19566798 and I’m hoping that you might be able to assist me. In a nutshell, I’m desperately trying to have a mark reversed that was applied against one of my three Jeeps. This mark was unjustly given as a form of retribution and now prevents me from having any warranty work performed on my Jeep at any dealership and all because of an honest formal complaint that I filed against Tuttle Click Jeep in Irvine, CA. Apparently, my complaint resulted in them getting “dinked” as they put it and this caused them to endure financial hardship.
Please note that I have already spoken to several Chrysler Dealer Complaint Center representatives regarding this matter but was ultimately told that I needed to speak with a case manager. After speaking to a case manager, I was told that I needed to write a letter directly to Chrysler Group, LLC. I did just that and eventually got a call from a representative who then told me that I needed to speak to what she referred to as, a “Business Center”. Unfortunately, I was told that the only way I could speak to them is to contact the dealership that punished me for apparently hurting them. Needless to say, I hope you can be understanding of my reluctance to speak with them and why I am contacting you directly now.
As mentioned, I am a proud owner of several Jeeps the first of which is a 2009 Jeep JK Wrangler Unlimited X, the second a 2007 JK Rubicon Unlimited and the third a 1997 XJ Cherokee. In the past, I have owned a 2000 TJ Wrangler Sport of which I just sold a few months ago, a 1994 XJ Cherokee 2-door and a beautiful 1981 CJ7. I have always been a loyal fan of the Jeep brand, I’m currently in the business of helping to promote it and in all my years of being a Jeep owner, I can tell you that I’ve never experienced anything quite like this before and to be honest, find it quite troubling. Believe me, had I known that a complaint made in an customer evaluation could result in the loss of my Jeep’s warranty, I would have just kept my mouth shut. In fact, it is what I currently advise all my readers to do now as well.
In short, all I’m asking is for you to do is review my case and if at all possible, I would be grateful if you could help me to have the mark placed against my Jeep reversed. If needed, I can provided you with names, dates and any other details you might need concerning this matter.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Sincerely,
Eddie
15 minutes later, Mayone called me back as promised and let me know that she verified that the exhaust manifold was in fact a part of the powertrain. Apparently, everything from the catalytic converter back is considered to be emissions and therefore, my exhaust manifold would not be covered. Upon hearing this, I said fine and reminded her of what she had stated in our previous conversation regarding proof and the need to provide evidence that my lift was directly responsible for my exhaust leak. To this, she said that the lift kit was the evidence. Stupefied by the answer, I paused and then asked... how? Following a condescending chuckle, Mayone informed me that "installing a lift changes the torque on the transmission and that is what caused my exhaust manifold leak." Dumbfounded by this response, I asked Mayone if she could explain what she just said again. Annoyed, she proceeds to tell me with a sharp tone that she's "not making this up" and that this is common knowledge. She goes on to say something to the effect that "if people want to lift their Jeeps, hey, Chrysler can't stop them but they need to know that their warranty will be voided if they do". I tried to respond by telling her about the Jeeps I own, about how built up they are and how I've been able to get warranty work done on them and without any troubles in the past. I start to explain how it was because of Tuttle Click flagging my Jeep that I was in this mess now and if it weren't for the formal complaint I made against them, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I explain how if I had known that I would be going through all this trouble over a stupid complaint that I was encouraged to make by a service advisor, I would have just kept my mouth shut. Frustrated with me, Mayone began to interupt me and so I let her know that I thought she was being rude. To this, she snapped at me and that's when I decided to ask for her representative number. I let her know that I knew she's not allowed to give me her last name but that I would appreciate it if she could give me her representative number and this is when she said "have a good day" and hung the phone up on me. Yes, you heard right, a direct representative of Sergio Marchionne, the current CEO of Chrysler Group, LLC or C. Robert Kidder, the current Chairman of the Board just hung up the phone on me just and because I asked for her representative number.
I've got to be honest and tell you that deciding to write these articles was one of the hardest things I've ever done. I absolutely love all my Jeeps, the Jeep culture and the Jeep lifestyle. I have always been a loyal fan and huge supporter of the brand but I have to say that this recent experience has left a really bad taste in my mouth. Certainly, in all these years, I never thought there would be a day where the company who makes the vehicle I love so much would snub me in the way that they have, without merit and right from the top. The crazy thing is, I don't have a problem with not being able to get my Jeep fixed under warranty. Heck, Jeeps are so modified that there wouldn't be much to get fixed under warranty. If proof can be shown that a modification I made caused a part to fail, I am fully willing to accept that it cannot be fixed under warranty. I just don't think it's right for Chrysler to be able to make the broad strokes that they have with their definition of "powertrain", effectively making it so that nothing can get fixed under warranty if they want. Likewise, I am trouble by the fact that Chrysler allows dealerships to flag customer Jeep's preventing them from getting any warranty work done anywhere. Last but not least, I am deeply trouble by the fact that customer evaluations are not kept confidential but can and will be used against you if you file a formal complaint against a dealership. Suffice it to say, I felt that the readers of Project-JK.com and the members of JK-Forum.com needed to hear about my experiences and see the truth about Chrysler, the way they handle their customer evaluations, the warrantees they pretend they have, the unwillingness they have to stand behind them and the eagerness they have to permanently void them the first chance they get.
As I’ve mentioned several times before, be careful what you say and when in doubt, just keep your mouth shut. Chrysler may make one the best off road vehicle on the face of the planet but unfortuantely, they are no friend of yours.
ADDENDUM - 06/09/2010
Scarlet Letters are Chrysler Policy
If you can believe it, I just got a call from Chrysler and spent the last half hour or so on the phone talking to a guy named Nate. Apparently, Mayone answers to him and my articles here on Project-JK.com, the thread I started over on JK-Forum.com and all the emails you sent on my behalf compelled him to make this call. While my conversation with him was professional, agreeable and in a surprising way, even somewhat enjoyable, this is what I got out of it.
Long story short, I was told that it’s Chrysler’s policy to have dealerships immediately flag any and all Jeeps that comes in and can be identified as having been modified. Apparently, this scarlet letter is placed on your VIN as a way to help all dealerships know that your Jeep needs to be reviewed prior to having any warranty work performed as the part you are hoping to have fixed or replaced most likely failed due to those modifications. I specifically asked and have confirmed that this would apply to ANY lifted Jeep regardless of height or even if the lift in question was a Mopar kit. Yes, you heard right, even a Mopar kit installed by a dealership is supposed to be flagged.
Having said that, I think it’s clear that many dealerships do not adhere to this policy and the proof of this is, there are many of you out there who have highly modified Jeeps and get warranty work done all the time and without issue. Certainly, I’ve had my own 2007 Rubicon Unlimited serviced under warranty on more than one occasion and without incident and in spite of the fact that it is highly modified. Of course, when I confronted Nate with this point, his answer to me was that he didn’t have an answer and that all our Jeeps should have been flagged. Fortunately, the reality of life is that there are dealerships out there who understand that most of their customers do not come in to have warranty work done but rather, come in to have their oil changed, tires rotated and have routine maintenance performed on a regular basis. These dealerships understand that providing good service is important not only to keep customers coming back but rather, it can help them generate more business through word of mouth recommendations. If every dealership went around flagging every modified Jeep that came in to their doors, that would effectively make it more difficult for them to perform warranty work if and when needed and I can only imagine how that would sit with their loyal customers. Having said all that, the one thing I was able to verify for sure is that the Tuttle Click Jeep in Irvine, CA, is ultimately responsible for the flag I now have on my orange Jeep JK Wrangler Unlimited.
Regarding the matter of why Tuttle Click chose to flag my Jeep, what I can tell you is that Nate confirmed that my customer evaluation was in fact recorded and shared with them. Apparently, this is standard practice and intentionally done as a way to help improve customer service. I was told that a message should have informed me that I was to be recorded but Nate admitted that no information regarding the confidentiality of my call or how it was to be used was provided. When I informed him of how my call was ultimately used to harass and intimidate me, he apologized and let me know that’s not how it was supposed to work but, that he could see how something like this could be twisted in this way. When I asked Nate if it was possible that Tuttle Click flagged my jeep out of retribution for my customer evaluation, he insisted that it was their obligated to flag my Jeep the minute they noticed it was lifted and regardless of the purpose of my visit. In response to this, I reminded him of the highly modified 2007 JK Rubicon Unlimited I have and how I was able to get a new locker and steering box replaced under warranty at another dealership and let him know that no flag that I know of exists over it. And to this, he said that the dealership in question should have flagged it. He even suggested that it was possible unsanctioned under the table dealings might be at play but that standard policy is to flag any modified Jeep and subject it to review prior to doing warranty work. Funny thing is, I don’t doubt it for a second that under the table dealings happen all the time and that dealerships do it to find ways to keep loyal customers happy. The only problem is, I now see they also happen all the time to people like me and just because of an honest evaluation I made that ultimately hurt them. At least, that’s the way looks to me.
So where does this leave me? Well, if you haven’t guessed it already, nowhere. I still have a scarlet letter on my Jeep and one that Chrysler is unwilling to remove. I was told that any future warranty work I might want to have done would be met with a road block that requires a thorough review of the part in question. I was told that aside from anything suspension related, warranty work should be allowed and that would apply to something like my exhaust manifold as well. If the work were to be denied, proof would have to be offered but that I would be at the mercy of their technicians to make the call. As a gesture of good will, Nate did give me his personal number and informed me that I should call him if I had any problems like this again. He let me know that being in the position that he’s in, this isn’t something he would normally do but given the circumstances, would be sure to help me. And, while I’m infinitely grateful for his offer of help, I find that I’m still troubled that it took so much effort to get and I’m also left to wonder if I would have gotten anything at all had I not been in the position that I’m in.
Not that this needs to be reiterated but, I’ll say it once again, if you’re unhappy with the service you received at your dealership, you’re better off just keeping your mouth shut. Again, Chrysler IS NOT your friend here and customer evaluations are NOT kept confidential. Anything you say can and will be used against you by your dealership and that can lead to your Jeep getting flagged. Remember, it is Chrysler’s policy to flag ANY and ALL Jeeps that have been modified regardless of the kit or who installed it. If your Jeep hasn’t been flagged already, don’t give your dealership any reason to give it one. A member of JK-Forum.com suggested that my plight was the result of me stepping on the toes of Tuttle Click and to that, I say he’s probably right. Not that I should care but clearly, when it comes to dealerships, customer satisfaction is not what’s most important but rather, you giving them high praise to Chrysler is. That is, it is if don’t want to loose your warranty anyway.
ADDENDUM - 06/10/2010
The Proof is in the Records
This morning, an interesting question was asked of me over on JK-Forum.com and it was one that I can honestly say I didn’t know the answer to. In fact, I wasn’t even sure if it was something that I wanted to know given that the answer had the potential to change the circumstances of things and put into question what I have been saying over the past few months. You see, the question asked was this - when did my Jeep actually get flagged? Was it on October 11, 2009, back when I first brought my Jeep into Tuttle Click and was first identified as being modified? According to the official policy of Chrysler, that is when it should have happend and if it did, it would prove that the flag on my Jeep was not administered by Tuttle Click as a form of retribution. Of course, if my Jeep was flagged on a much later date - oh, say maybe after a certain negative customer survey was filed with Chrysler, that would offer even more proof to the claims that I have been making all along. So, how was I going to be able to find out for sure?
Being that I never received an official notification in writing or otherwise regarding when and why my Jeep was flagged, I had assumed that finding out the answer to this question was going to take some leg work. Forutnately for me, Nate at Chrysler has been following the discussion over on JK-Forum.com and he already had a good idea that I would be contacting him soon. Needless to say, he was ready for me and soon after sending him an email regarding this matter, I received a phone call from him.
So, what was the answer to the million dollar question…… March 23, 2010.
While my Jeep still has a flag on it, one that I still feel was given unjustly and one that Chrysler is still unwilling to remove, I think it is very clear that my Jeep DID NOT receive it as part of routine policy enforcement but rather, as a form of dealership retribution.
If there is a bright side to all this, I will have to say that my recent conversations with Nate have been surprisingly pleasant and productive. More than anything, I am really encouraged by his eagerness and willingness to listen to not only my concerns but the concerns of JK-Forum.com members as well. It is my hope that there are more people like Nate within the Chrysler Corporation and if there are, it would go a long way in helping to restore my faith in them.
ADDENDUM - 06/22/2010
The Flag Has Been Lowered!!
As I have stated many times before over the last couple weeks, when in doubt, it’s best just keep your mouth shut. Trust me, no matter how bad of an experience you may of had with your dealership, providing a customer evaluation that’s anything less than stellar will come back to bite you. Your evaluations are NOT confidential, are purposefully shared with your dealership and believe me, if your review causes them to feel any pain, they will do what they can to return the favor. In my case, the dealership in question was Tuttle Click Jeep in Irvine, CA, and they decided to retaliate against me by placing a “flag”, or what Chrysler refers to as a “restriction” on my Jeep.
Now, while Chrysler will try and suggest that a restriction should only require a dealership to closely inspect any aftermarket modifications that you might have made prior to performing any warranty work, the reality of it is, your Jeep will be seen by ALL dealerships as having NO warranty at all. Essentially, you are guilty until proven innocent or, more specifically, your warranty will be voided until you jump through hoops just to get Chrysler to review your case. At least, that’s what happened to me and what I had to go through before I could get Chrysler to finally admit that an exhaust manifold leak I paid to have fixed at another dealership should have been covered under warranty. While I was refunded for the charges, I was dismayed to find out that the wrongful restriction placed on my Jeep was still in place and that’s when I decided to write about my experiences and fight to have it removed.
After doing some research online, I decided to try and send an email directly to Sergio Marchionne, the current CEO of Chrysler Group, LLC as well as C. Robert Kidder who is the current Chairman of the Board. As luck would have it, this put me in touch with the Head of Top Care at Chrysler and thus began a two week long dialogue that was certainly frustrating at times but, ultimately proved to be an educational experience. During this time, I learned a whole lot about warranty restrictions and the fact that the one placed on my Jeep was clearly given as a form of retribution. However, in spite of the fact that my restriction was wrongfully given, I was told that it would not be removed as my Jeep was still modified and therefore should have been restricted anyway. As Chrysler would explain, they have a policy that requires all dealerships to apply restrictions on any customer vehicle if it is determined that it has been modified.
Fortunately for me, I have the wonderful support of the members on JK-Forum.com and thanks their keen attention to detail, I was shown that no such policy was listed in the Jeep owners warranty handbook. Sure, there are sections that go over what would be covered under warranty, what wouldn’t be and there’s even a section that covers restrictions. However, this section clearly states that restrictions would only apply to vehicles that have been neglected, abused or not properly maintained. Absolutely NO language exists regarding modified vehicles or that they should be restricted just because of it and to be quite honest, I don’t see how there could be without it standing in direct conflict of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)). Needless to say, I made to sure let Chrysler know as much.
In the end, this is what would make all the difference. Even after their lawyers spent days looking into this matter, Chrysler ultimately came to the conclusion that the restriction placed on my Jeep had no merit and, as a result, finally decided to lift it. Yes, you heard right, my 2009 Jeep JK Wrangler Unlimited X once again has a clean record, has no restrictions placed on it and, a call I made to 877-I-AM-JEEP this morning confirmed as much!
While justice prevailed, it certainly wasn’t without its trials. And, if you wish to avoid all the trouble I had to go through, please try to learn from my experiences. When in doubt, keep your mouth shut, refuse to participate in any customer evaluation you might get by phone and toss the ones you get by mail in the trash. If I had known what I know now, that’s what I would have done and will do from here on out.
SPECIAL THANKS: I would like to take a moment and thank everyone for all the encouragement and support I received during this crazy ordeal. I would also like to thank Nate over at Chrysler for all his help. Unlike some of the people I’ve had to deal with over at Chrysler, Nate was always professional, friendly and really went out of his way to help me out and for that, I’m grateful.
BY REQUEST: From what i have found, this guy answers for both Sergio Marchionne, CEO and C. Robert Kidder, Chairman of the Board:
gualberto.ranieri@chrysler.com
Last edited by wayoflife; 06-22-2010 at 11:03 AM.
06-07-2010, 05:37 PM
#3
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This is not suprising. Back when I first bought my Jeep mine leaked constantly. I took it to the dealer so many times (7) that I mentioned lemon law. Unfortunately that got me black listed as well, and I was hung up on also when I called Chrysler corporate. The customer service representative was probably one of the most rude reps I have ever spoken with. I really detest Chrysler(Fiat) as a cooporation. Fast forward two years later, I have figured out my leaks on my own, and an trying to replace everything so their really is not much left to warranty. Thankfully I found this site and have learned to do all my own work.
06-07-2010, 05:38 PM
#4
JK Jedi
Damn that's just pure bullshit! I can't believe they'd behave so unprofessionally. Hopefully that's not a sign of what we can expect of Chrysler in the new Fiat/Chrysler world. 
And the evaluation process seems more like the old communist world...unreal!
And the evaluation process seems more like the old communist world...unreal!
06-07-2010, 05:40 PM
#5
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Holy shit. Umm wow what an interesting story. On a similar note, I took my Jeep to the dealership to get the idling issue fixed and seeing that I JUST got this back in April and that it's lower than 40k miles, I should have a warranty on it no problem. To my surprise, the warranty expired back in February! Apparently, I only have the Emissions and 'Perforation' warranties still on it. I then spent 98 dollars for a diagnosis and a call to say that it's normal idling. Never going back there again and from here on, doing the work on my own.
Hope this helps. I know wayoflife's story will certainly help!
BTW, what are you gonna do from here on? Since you got to the 'top', you might try again for a different lady?
Hope this helps. I know wayoflife's story will certainly help!
BTW, what are you gonna do from here on? Since you got to the 'top', you might try again for a different lady?
06-07-2010, 05:47 PM
#7
JK Super Freak
Pathetic all around. Blade and Mayone (what ever happened to normal names like John or Jenny?) sound like a couple of clueless, defensive idiots. You've probably got a Magnuson-Moss Act claim here, but it wouldn't be worth the effort to fight it. I'd write a letter to the BBB and, especially, your state attorney general. Let them know that Chrysler is denying valid warranty claims to cut costs, and CC Sergio and his crew of morons. Like you, I love my Jeep, but it'll probably be the last Chrysler product I buy. There are hundreds of vehicles someone can buy. Why waste another dollar on these jokers?
Hell, after hearing all this, I won't even buy another MOPAR accessory or part. Aftermarket all the way from here on out. At least small to mid-sized aftermarket companies still warranty their products! I've seen many forum sponsors PERSONALLY apologize on this board for ONE bad customer service experience. Meanwhile, Chrysler hangs up on you. F**K CHRYSLER.
Hell, after hearing all this, I won't even buy another MOPAR accessory or part. Aftermarket all the way from here on out. At least small to mid-sized aftermarket companies still warranty their products! I've seen many forum sponsors PERSONALLY apologize on this board for ONE bad customer service experience. Meanwhile, Chrysler hangs up on you. F**K CHRYSLER.
Last edited by JK-Tex; 06-07-2010 at 05:52 PM.
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06-07-2010, 05:52 PM
#8
JK Enthusiast
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I was just about to fill out a negative survey. Guess I will just toss it out instead..... That really stinks.
Personally, I went to three different jeep dealers to purchase mine. Worse customer service I have ever had. I only bought it at the 3rd dealer because they gave me the price I wanted. It has been a month and I have had to fight for silly things like my mopar bucks parts, spare key and a manual. Heck I am still waiting for my real plate
and I was transferring my own.....
You think they would instill a little bit of professionalism in a company that is barely holding on(only the wrangler keeping it a float).
Personally, I went to three different jeep dealers to purchase mine. Worse customer service I have ever had. I only bought it at the 3rd dealer because they gave me the price I wanted. It has been a month and I have had to fight for silly things like my mopar bucks parts, spare key and a manual. Heck I am still waiting for my real plate
and I was transferring my own.....You think they would instill a little bit of professionalism in a company that is barely holding on(only the wrangler keeping it a float).
06-07-2010, 05:57 PM
#9
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I'm not surprised either. I haven't been flagged by Chrysler yet, but I have been by GM for another vehicle I own. Pretty much the same story too, took it in for what I thought was an obvious warranty repair, was basically blown off, and then flagged when I tried to explain my side.
They are so sensitive about those surveys because thats their paycheck on the line. Their bonuses, kickbacks, etc. depend on a stellar survey. Their panties get bunched when were honest.
I wouldn't doubt one bit that Chrysler does the same to me very soon. But I'll be damned if I'm going to buy "run of the mill" vehicles and never mod them. It ain't American!
They are so sensitive about those surveys because thats their paycheck on the line. Their bonuses, kickbacks, etc. depend on a stellar survey. Their panties get bunched when were honest.
I wouldn't doubt one bit that Chrysler does the same to me very soon. But I'll be damned if I'm going to buy "run of the mill" vehicles and never mod them. It ain't American!
Last edited by nukeman; 06-07-2010 at 06:00 PM.
06-07-2010, 06:01 PM
#10
JK-Forum Founder
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This is not suprising. Back when I first bought my Jeep mine leaked constantly. I took it to the dealer so many times (7) that I mentioned lemon law. Unfortunately that got me black listed as well, and I was hung up on also when I called Chrysler corporate. The customer service representative was probably one of the most rude reps I have ever spoken with. I really detest Chrysler(Fiat) as a cooporation. Fast forward two years later, I have figured out my leaks on my own, and an trying to replace everything so their really is not much left to warranty. Thankfully I found this site and have learned to do all my own work.
Eddie, glad they were able to un-flag a good portion of your warranty.. wouldn't think much of your suspension is stock anymore, anyways..
It's a shame that a dealership has that kind of power over a warranty by flagging it because he is upset over feedback. Where is the checks and balances of the system. No wonder they had problems in the 70's and again now.. Failure to take care & meet the needs of the customer instead of the stockholder.. Which I know is their business, but; the better you take care of the customer, the more the stock is worth..
It's a shame that a dealership has that kind of power over a warranty by flagging it because he is upset over feedback. Where is the checks and balances of the system. No wonder they had problems in the 70's and again now.. Failure to take care & meet the needs of the customer instead of the stockholder.. Which I know is their business, but; the better you take care of the customer, the more the stock is worth..