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Crawler vs. Bouncer

 
Old 05-29-2019, 05:39 AM
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Talking Crawler vs. Bouncer

Ok, so i have some questions about the build differences of a crawler and a bouncer. I know the differences in the styles and i have looked a lot of places and cant really find any information as to the true differences other then everyone says the bouncers are stronger.... So i understand that bouncers want more power for flying up the hills and the drive train needs to be stronger to handle the forced caused by the high hp motors. SO that part is easily explained. But i am more concerned with the chassis and suspension side of things.

Lets start with the chassis, I have noticed a lot of companys that offer chassis there is a large difference in how the chassis is designed. The crawler versions seem WAY less sturdy and it dosent seem to have as much for the cage as a bouncer does. The bouncer chassis all have a very similar "main" frame bottom end and then the top end differs for function and looks. So could you take a "bouncer" chassis and use it for crawlers or is the added weight of all the extra tubing to much and it would hinder performance? For crawlers is it better to have a simple lightweight but strong design for when you do roll over?

Now for suspension, this part i dont have nearly as many questions as it is easier to understand why they do something. A lot of bouncers seem to be running a simple triangulated 4 link front and rear. it seems the majority the triangulation isent very tight and comes out wider. I assume that it to help with the nature stability of the wider suspension like that as they seem to care less about flex and more about keeping the tires on the ground. And i would assume the suggestive "best" suspension for a crawler would be a double triangulated front and rear?

I am looking at building something maybe and have these questions as i will design it all myself (or at least try to). Any and all input is welcome!
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Old 05-29-2019, 11:27 AM
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So i guess 45 people dont have an opinion on this?
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Old 05-29-2019, 11:58 AM
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I think lack of responses probably have more to do with lack of qualified opinions. I'd bet Dirtman chimes in with something.
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Old 05-29-2019, 12:06 PM
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Ya, the hard part is trying to figure out how i should build it. It will live most its life at K2, Wolf Caves, and places around there. So mostly granite. Almost half tempted to just go out there on a busy day and take notes on other buggys and take the best i see out of them and build one around that.
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Old 05-29-2019, 12:12 PM
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Start getting in to things like that and it almost seems to make more sense buying or building some buggy you don't mind going out trashing rather than beloved JK. I have a few buddies that build to more extreme measures.....those jeeps now are lucky to see the pavement and are just trailer queens....and the enjoyment is gone.
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Old 05-29-2019, 12:15 PM
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Ya, Dirtman kinda of talked me out of building the JK to be on the level out there so now here i am lol. I have spent a lot of time looking around on other forum that are more "specialized" for them and the forums seem very dead and no one ever posts so figured i would give it a try here.
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Old 05-29-2019, 12:20 PM
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I have picked up a bunch of numbers from a fab forum but am not shur how well they will work. The guy referenced them as the "golden" rules. 22" belly height, 40" lower arm length, 9" of height separation of arms on the axle, and 12" of height separation of arms on the chassis. So am interested in what others say. No one really seemed to argue with him. And i also now cant find the link to it
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Old 05-30-2019, 05:06 AM
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Rock bouncers are heavy and need lots of HP to keep the thing moving. The Chassis is for roll over protection at speed and multiple rolls. Gearing is totally different as they get going fast up those hills vs a crawler that is generally slower is better. Bouncers don't need long travel in the suspension that unload and I would think they are designing around anti squat to keep rig more stable while they stomp on the pedal.

On the crawler side the trend is moving to a super light chassis rig with big tires and small 4 cylinder motors. Look up Jessie Hanes as he is one of the premier crawler builders out there and a professional driver. He started building rigs at Badlands in Indiana and now live here in Reno. His rigs climb like spiders. Here is a link to the event he started and he gets drivers from all over the world here to compete.Buy Tickets ? SUPERCRAWL 2019

I don't think your separation advice is correct. I typically go by the separation at the axle should be 25% off the tire height and it is less at the frame to adjust for anti squat with the rear links converging at the center of gravity up front, typically top bolt on the bell housing. I like to put the frame side lower control arm mounts as close to the output on the transfer case as you can and the upper arms should be at least 80% the length of the lowers. This will control how your option moves through travel. A double triangulated is the best suspension design as it keeps things simple and reduces axle shift during articulation.

Keep in mind there is no "one best" formula for just going out and building a buggy only some guidelines to follow and your choices on other components will affect how and where you put things like suspension brackets. Pick the tire size you want to run, the wheel base, shock travel and ratio. These three things will dictate your build and your build will be optimized for these things and will not be optimized if you want to change something like tire size later. Do not start building for one thing and change at the end. You will just be doing things over. If you have experience with tube bending and chassis design start building if not I would recommend buying a pre built chassis for tires and shocks you want to run. It will be cheaper to go that route. If you have a friend that has an uncle that has access to a machine shop is not a good option if they don't know chassis design. They will typically over build the rig and it becomes too heavy which leads to more power which leads to more weight and expense.

Your overall best bet is to buy a built buggy as you will save a ton of money. Just look over the rig to see how it was done, crawl it and check your clearances and pinion angles. Its easy to spend $75k on a a buggy you build and can pick up some pretty nice used ones for $35k There is a lot to building any rig and this post is just a smidge of info on what to do. In the end its your rig and your money so do what you want.
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Old 05-31-2019, 04:30 AM
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If these are the trails you plan to build your rig around then go out there and watch others, look at the their rigs. Get their wheel base and widths, watch what tires hook up best. Ride shotgun with them if you can. I always liked riding with better drivers so I could learn driving tips.
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Old 05-31-2019, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDirtman View Post
If these are the trails you plan to build your rig around then go out there and watch others, look at the their rigs. Get their wheel base and widths, watch what tires hook up best. Ride shotgun with them if you can. I always liked riding with better drivers so I could learn driving tips.
Ya, so i was able to squeeze my way into their FB group and ya... learning ALOT They all seem to run a very similar rig set up and they are explaining the math involved for calcing squat and so on so on. Everyone just runs 40" Nitto TG, thought that was funny.
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