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"Is there a god" thread?

 
Old 03-21-2014, 12:52 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by 0BigBlue7 View Post
I understand that it can help to make you feel better and what not, but any real experiences of it making an actual difference in anything? And what proof of that do you have? Definitely not trolling, just curious.
What kind of difference or proof?

I seen loser, drug addict, high school dropouts change their lives and become completely different people through prayer and religion.

I've seen foster parents make a difference in the lives of dozens of problem kids through prayer.

My stepmother drove a vehicle more than 300 miles with no oil in it because the quick lube center forgot to fill it. She prayed daily, including that her vehicle would function properly on trips. I don't know how to explain what happened other than the influence of prayer.

I've seen people who were so cankered with rancor due to their inability to forgive someone that they could barely function, completely change their capacity to forgive through prayer.

I have several clients who are physicians who could tell story after story of people who should not have recovered from an illness or injury, who did, and there was no logical explanation other than the influence of prayer.

At the same time, I've seen people who haven't recovered from illness, haven't weathered difficult situations like they had hoped, and haven't got what they wanted when they prayed.
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by planman View Post
What kind of difference or proof? I seen loser, drug addict, high school dropouts change their lives and become completely different people through prayer and religion. I've seen foster parents make a difference in the lives of dozens of problem kids through prayer. My stepmother drove a vehicle more than 300 miles with no oil in it because the quick lube center forgot to fill it. She prayed daily, including that her vehicle would function properly on trips. I don't know how to explain what happened other than the influence of prayer. I've seen people who were so cankered with rancor due to their inability to forgive someone that they could barely function, completely change their capacity to forgive through prayer. I have several clients who are physicians who could tell story after story of people who should not have recovered from an illness or injury, who did, and there was no logical explanation other than the influence of prayer. At the same time, I've seen people who haven't recovered from illness, haven't weathered difficult situations like they had hoped, and haven't got what they wanted when they prayed.
I mean proof, something that shows prayer is what actually was the deciding factor in all those situations.

For example, science can confirm all my personal beliefs. What proof is there that prayer helped in all those situations, other than "believing" and "faith".
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:58 PM
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Legitimate proof...
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:02 PM
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Great, another one of these lame ass threads.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:10 PM
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about mid way through the 'smoking hot girls in a JK' thread is proof that God exists.....

used to be the Yoga pants thread was the next book of Revelations.....but the devil in me blew ruined it for erry'one.....

i went to the 'confession' thread and repented for my sins......
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:26 PM
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Planman offered examples of God's intervention in the lives of people around him. You have to believe in order to see the proof. If you don't believe, you will never get the proof you are looking for, especially through science. If, in your heart, you want to believe, God will find a way to communicate to you. All I need to do is look out the window and I can see proof of God everywhere.

You see, for me, I look at the examples listed above and see solid evidence of Gods existence. You do not. You will not likely change your mind regardless of how many hours are wasted on this thread and neither will I. I hope you find the answer your looking for.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:54 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by 0BigBlue7 View Post
I mean proof, something that shows prayer is what actually was the deciding factor in all those situations.

For example, science can confirm all my personal beliefs. What proof is there that prayer helped in all those situations, other than "believing" and "faith".
I don't know. How would you propose a person test this other than on themselves?

I guess we could prohibit drug addict, high school dropouts from exposure to prayer and religion, and see if a corresponding percentage of them suddenly completely change their lives and become better people.

I guess we could prohibit people who pray from being foster parents of screwed up kids and see if that makes any difference in whether the same percentage of kids end up on the streets or in jail.

We could prohibit people who are so consumed by hate and rancor from their inability to forgive to have any exposure to prayer or religion and test how many of them have a complete change of heart that allows them to forgive and function with happiness in society.

We could have hospitals and physicians who only employ and treat atheists in order to test whether unexplained recoveries happen in the same frequency.

None of these "tests or proofs" on other people are ethically or socially viable.


The only viable way to really test or have proof for you is to do it yourself.

Read what are considered sacred texts of the faiths you want to test, and make a concerted effort to live by the principles taught in that faith--including the practice of prayer subscribed by that faith. If you notice a difference in your life and in your well-being, then you will have some element of proof that there was truth to the principles or process.

Don't stop though. Keep on going until you have tested several different faiths and sought the best principles that have made the most difference in your life and meaning. Check out the Abrahamic religions: Lutherans, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals, other Christians, and the Jews and the Muslums. Check out the Indian religions: Buddists and Hindus. Abrahamic religions and Indian religions collectively represent the majority of faiths in the world.

In the end, if you find that the exercise makes absolutely no difference in your perspective on life, relationships, society, death, spirituality, etc., then you will have your proof.

Last edited by planman; 03-21-2014 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:08 PM
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For me personally my life completely changed when I started trusting God to lead my life. We struggled financially and was on the verge of loosing everything we owned. I lost my job when the housing market crashed. Shortly after we started going to church I had a great job fall in my lap and have excelled at my position since.

We attend church regularly and pay our tithes. Since we started letting God lead our lives we have bought a new home and 2 brand new Jeeps 13 JKU and 13 Grand Chreokee. I believe God exist because the good book tells me so and I don't question it.

2013 True Blue (Sully)
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:35 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by planman View Post
Read what are considered sacred texts of the faiths you want to test, and make a concerted effort to live by the principles taught in that faith--including the practice of prayer subscribed by that faith. If you notice a difference in your life and in your well-being, then you will have some element of proof that there was truth to the principles or process. Don't stop though. Keep on going until you have tested several different faiths and sought the best principles that have made the most difference in your life and meaning.
Well said. This is exactly what I did. And sure enough, I went from being an unbeliever into a believer. Like someone else said, if you truly are open and looking for evidence it will present itself.
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Old 03-21-2014, 07:28 PM
  #20  
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There are a lot of unexplained "miracles" in science. The human brain, the universe... Health recovery being unexplained by surgeons or physicians is no reason to point fingers at prayer. The human body is amazing and quite capable of recovering from the irrecoverable every now and then. Just as much as we cannot explain why the human brain evolved into having the capacity to imagine that it is self-aware. Perhaps it is a survival technique. Or for protection. Our brain is unaware of its own processes, instead we imagine that it is a consciousness. Just as we imagine that there is such a thing as free will, when really there is no "free" will at all.
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