Sand dune driving techniques?
09-10-2009, 12:06 PM
#11
I must have missed that part. I thought the OP was in sixth gear, which I assumed was a manual?
I also figured he was in 4lo to lock the axles, although going back now I don't see any mention of that.
It seems like a downshift is in order during the process, but you have to be smooth to keep the tires rolling instead of digging. (thanks dxb jeep).
The ESP type features will definately stall you out if you don't disable them while in 4 hi. I've had that happen on beaches that were cross rutted badly. Once those tires get out of sync for a couple seconds it pretty much kills throttle input on my jeep. It's not dug in, but it feels just like it. That's the pint when I remember to turn off ESP & drive on.
I really whish they would have defaulted to ESP off in 4wd mode, & let you turn it on again while in 4wd if you needed it.
It would seem to be geared towards ski resort 4wd instead of the type of wheeling they tend to show in thier advertising.\
By the way, ESP does kick ass in snow covered streets.
I also figured he was in 4lo to lock the axles, although going back now I don't see any mention of that.
It seems like a downshift is in order during the process, but you have to be smooth to keep the tires rolling instead of digging. (thanks dxb jeep).
The ESP type features will definately stall you out if you don't disable them while in 4 hi. I've had that happen on beaches that were cross rutted badly. Once those tires get out of sync for a couple seconds it pretty much kills throttle input on my jeep. It's not dug in, but it feels just like it. That's the pint when I remember to turn off ESP & drive on.
I really whish they would have defaulted to ESP off in 4wd mode, & let you turn it on again while in 4wd if you needed it.
It would seem to be geared towards ski resort 4wd instead of the type of wheeling they tend to show in thier advertising.\
By the way, ESP does kick ass in snow covered streets.
You make a good point which I have thought about aswell, why not have it programmed like 4lo, and have ESP turned off as soon as any 4x4 is engaged. Its more dangerous in the desert, you forget to turn it off, and suddenly you need power on a side slope, if its not there you could easily dig yourself in and head for a roll over.
Anybody think it would be possible for these aftermarket programmers to have a setting to reprogram the esp, even if it means permanently off?
09-10-2009, 12:49 PM
#12
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#1 - Air DOWN to as low as you can go...in my stock tires 7 rims I go to 12 and as yet never had a problem.
#2 - A nice even pace in speed, generally the faster the better......but generally never slow down or stop unless you are on a hill and can roll front or back..and then DON"T stop or be tempted to stop.
#3 - You Will get stuck.....count on it. Have a full size shovel for each person in the Jeep.........make sure they know how to use it !!
#4 - Tow straps..........one, preferrably TWO !
#5 - Sand jeeping is the only time I don't jeep alone. If not in your group, make sure there are others in the area you can flag down for assistance.
#6 - turn ALL your lites on, even on the brightest days.
#7 - watch out for the little fu**ers on the ATV's.....they're in a world of their own and are never paying attention to what's going on around them.
#8 - Have Fun......and be prepared to not only work hard cleaning up your body where all the sand in the cracks go, but your Jeep too!
Pics at Oregon Dunes NRA this past summer.......
#2 - A nice even pace in speed, generally the faster the better......but generally never slow down or stop unless you are on a hill and can roll front or back..and then DON"T stop or be tempted to stop.
#3 - You Will get stuck.....count on it. Have a full size shovel for each person in the Jeep.........make sure they know how to use it !!
#4 - Tow straps..........one, preferrably TWO !
#5 - Sand jeeping is the only time I don't jeep alone. If not in your group, make sure there are others in the area you can flag down for assistance.
#6 - turn ALL your lites on, even on the brightest days.
#7 - watch out for the little fu**ers on the ATV's.....they're in a world of their own and are never paying attention to what's going on around them.
#8 - Have Fun......and be prepared to not only work hard cleaning up your body where all the sand in the cracks go, but your Jeep too!
Pics at Oregon Dunes NRA this past summer.......
09-10-2009, 02:23 PM
#13
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Sand dunes
I go to Winchester Bay in Florence Oregon, which is about the largest stretch of sand dunes in the US and some of the tallest, runs about 50 miles from Coos Bay north. I air down to about 10psi and use lo on the steep dunes and lock the front and back, I have the Rubicon with an auto and no problems. And there is some soft spots throughout.
09-10-2009, 04:35 PM
#14
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I must have missed that part. I thought the OP was in sixth gear, which I assumed was a manual?
I also figured he was in 4lo to lock the axles, although going back now I don't see any mention of that.
It seems like a downshift is in order during the process, but you have to be smooth to keep the tires rolling instead of digging. (thanks dxb jeep).
The ESP type features will definately stall you out if you don't disable them while in 4 hi. I've had that happen on beaches that were cross rutted badly. Once those tires get out of sync for a couple seconds it pretty much kills throttle input on my jeep. It's not dug in, but it feels just like it. That's the pint when I remember to turn off ESP & drive on.
I really whish they would have defaulted to ESP off in 4wd mode, & let you turn it on again while in 4wd if you needed it.
It would seem to be geared towards ski resort 4wd instead of the type of wheeling they tend to show in thier advertising.\
By the way, ESP does kick ass in snow covered streets.
I also figured he was in 4lo to lock the axles, although going back now I don't see any mention of that.
It seems like a downshift is in order during the process, but you have to be smooth to keep the tires rolling instead of digging. (thanks dxb jeep).
The ESP type features will definately stall you out if you don't disable them while in 4 hi. I've had that happen on beaches that were cross rutted badly. Once those tires get out of sync for a couple seconds it pretty much kills throttle input on my jeep. It's not dug in, but it feels just like it. That's the pint when I remember to turn off ESP & drive on.
I really whish they would have defaulted to ESP off in 4wd mode, & let you turn it on again while in 4wd if you needed it.
It would seem to be geared towards ski resort 4wd instead of the type of wheeling they tend to show in thier advertising.\
By the way, ESP does kick ass in snow covered streets.
I keep forgetting about the fng ESP when in 4Hi. When it choked in 4Hi in the sand, it seemed weird, like there was not much reason for it to die. Just a moderate hill with soft sand. At that point, i just put it in lo.
i've also had it choke on trails in 4Hi. Is ESP whats killing me and making me think my 72hp engine is really a 13hp?
Is it good enough to just hold the ESP button down to shut off or do you have to do the steering wheel dance thing?
Sounds like a good excuse to go back to the dunes to try it again.
appreciate everyones input. thx.
09-10-2009, 05:08 PM
#15
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Good point about the ESP, I forgot to mention, turn the damn thing off, ive done it a few times, forgot to turn it off, set off up a dune and only got 30ft or so, tried to go up again and same thing then realised ESP is still on, turned it off and up it went no issues...
You make a good point which I have thought about aswell, why not have it programmed like 4lo, and have ESP turned off as soon as any 4x4 is engaged. Its more dangerous in the desert, you forget to turn it off, and suddenly you need power on a side slope, if its not there you could easily dig yourself in and head for a roll over.
Anybody think it would be possible for these aftermarket programmers to have a setting to reprogram the esp, even if it means permanently off?
You make a good point which I have thought about aswell, why not have it programmed like 4lo, and have ESP turned off as soon as any 4x4 is engaged. Its more dangerous in the desert, you forget to turn it off, and suddenly you need power on a side slope, if its not there you could easily dig yourself in and head for a roll over.
Anybody think it would be possible for these aftermarket programmers to have a setting to reprogram the esp, even if it means permanently off?
you can kill the ESB
https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/show...&highlight=ESP
09-10-2009, 09:42 PM
#16
09-12-2009, 05:33 AM
#17
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#1 - Air DOWN to as low as you can go...in my stock tires 7 rims I go to 12 and as yet never had a problem.
#2 - A nice even pace in speed, generally the faster the better......but generally never slow down or stop unless you are on a hill and can roll front or back..and then DON"T stop or be tempted to stop.
#3 - You Will get stuck.....count on it. Have a full size shovel for each person in the Jeep.........make sure they know how to use it !!
#4 - Tow straps..........one, preferrably TWO !
#5 - Sand jeeping is the only time I don't jeep alone. If not in your group, make sure there are others in the area you can flag down for assistance.
#6 - turn ALL your lites on, even on the brightest days.
#7 - watch out for the little fu**ers on the ATV's.....they're in a world of their own and are never paying attention to what's going on around them.
#8 - Have Fun......and be prepared to not only work hard cleaning up your body where all the sand in the cracks go, but your Jeep too!
Pics at Oregon Dunes NRA this past summer.......
#2 - A nice even pace in speed, generally the faster the better......but generally never slow down or stop unless you are on a hill and can roll front or back..and then DON"T stop or be tempted to stop.
#3 - You Will get stuck.....count on it. Have a full size shovel for each person in the Jeep.........make sure they know how to use it !!
#4 - Tow straps..........one, preferrably TWO !
#5 - Sand jeeping is the only time I don't jeep alone. If not in your group, make sure there are others in the area you can flag down for assistance.
#6 - turn ALL your lites on, even on the brightest days.
#7 - watch out for the little fu**ers on the ATV's.....they're in a world of their own and are never paying attention to what's going on around them.
#8 - Have Fun......and be prepared to not only work hard cleaning up your body where all the sand in the cracks go, but your Jeep too!
Pics at Oregon Dunes NRA this past summer.......
Also with stock rubi tires I found 8psi is needed as the side walls are so stiff. You want a big footpring for sand to easily go over the mound of stand that builds up at the point of tire contact at the sand. We do some terrain modeling for tire silp with vehilce dynamics models and its real interesting what really happens at the point of contact when in loose gravel, dirt or sand.
Air down flag up and be safe
09-24-2009, 03:26 PM
#19
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Small Left and Right up-hill helps a lot
I used to go Ocotillo (Arizona) and Sonora Dessert and here's my suggestion :
1) Lower pressure to 10-12 PSI
2) Always 4 Hi and playing with shifts as required.
3) On long Hills ... accelerate as required and if you feel to be stucked at the top ..start doing moderated left and right turns to dig more and exit.
4) In my experience Mud terrain tires work better that than the All terrain's on sand.
5) Communication is fundamental (vhf radios .. not CB's) to advise difficulty or potential danger.
6) Down hill even on steep hills are very smooth ...but avoid touching the brakes. Ussualley the first car (leader) makes the path for the rest ... just keep your self in.
7) If you feel that you are loosing the control .. always follow the natural side to turn .. Nther wise you can roll-over.
C Ya' soon dudes
GN.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gernumex/3071822556/
1) Lower pressure to 10-12 PSI
2) Always 4 Hi and playing with shifts as required.
3) On long Hills ... accelerate as required and if you feel to be stucked at the top ..start doing moderated left and right turns to dig more and exit.
4) In my experience Mud terrain tires work better that than the All terrain's on sand.
5) Communication is fundamental (vhf radios .. not CB's) to advise difficulty or potential danger.
6) Down hill even on steep hills are very smooth ...but avoid touching the brakes. Ussualley the first car (leader) makes the path for the rest ... just keep your self in.
7) If you feel that you are loosing the control .. always follow the natural side to turn .. Nther wise you can roll-over.
C Ya' soon dudes
GN.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gernumex/3071822556/
Last edited by GerNuMX_JK; 09-29-2009 at 01:31 PM.
09-24-2009, 04:18 PM
#20
JK Freak
I spent much of the summer on ocean beaches... I've driven my three different Jeeps and a Suzuki countless miles on beach sand over the past 30 years.
My rules:
Air down to between 12 and 18 PSI (depends on the consistency of the sand and the weight of the vehicle). 4 PSI is begging for trouble. If you dig in with the front wheels turned, you stand a very high chance of popping a bead. I've seen it many, many times.
Use 4-high, 4-low is usually too slow and you WILL dig in more easy.
ESP off.
Maintain headway, don't attempt tight turns at very low speeds in deep sand. Momentum is important, especially going up a dune. As has been said by our friend in Dubai, don't wuss out as you approach the crest of a dune. You need not go flying, but don't tip-toe over either (especially if driving an Unlimited with its lesser break-over angle).
Avoid driving diagonally across a dune. Never turn across a tall dune going down.
my experience is that aggressive tires, such as M/Ts, throw more sand and tend to dig in. You have to be more careful about low speed throttle application with M/Ts than with All Terrains. ATs have always been less troublesome in deep dry sand. My 285/70-17 Dynapro M/Ts are no better on dry sand than the stock 255/75-17 Goodyear SR-As. The M/Ts ARE better in wet, packed sand.
Bring a shovel... Just in case you weren't paying attention.
Bring an 8"x12"x1" jack board and a 18" bottle jack. Yes, you can jack the vehicle out of the four holes you dug, fill the holes one at a time and drive off. Surfcasters often go out alone, sometimes they screw up and get stuck. A shovel, jack board, 2x4x6 block of wood and a high lift bottle jack can get you unstuck if you're alone. I like the bottle jack because it's compact.
My regards,
Widewing
My rules:
Air down to between 12 and 18 PSI (depends on the consistency of the sand and the weight of the vehicle). 4 PSI is begging for trouble. If you dig in with the front wheels turned, you stand a very high chance of popping a bead. I've seen it many, many times.
Use 4-high, 4-low is usually too slow and you WILL dig in more easy.
ESP off.
Maintain headway, don't attempt tight turns at very low speeds in deep sand. Momentum is important, especially going up a dune. As has been said by our friend in Dubai, don't wuss out as you approach the crest of a dune. You need not go flying, but don't tip-toe over either (especially if driving an Unlimited with its lesser break-over angle).
Avoid driving diagonally across a dune. Never turn across a tall dune going down.
my experience is that aggressive tires, such as M/Ts, throw more sand and tend to dig in. You have to be more careful about low speed throttle application with M/Ts than with All Terrains. ATs have always been less troublesome in deep dry sand. My 285/70-17 Dynapro M/Ts are no better on dry sand than the stock 255/75-17 Goodyear SR-As. The M/Ts ARE better in wet, packed sand.
Bring a shovel... Just in case you weren't paying attention.
Bring an 8"x12"x1" jack board and a 18" bottle jack. Yes, you can jack the vehicle out of the four holes you dug, fill the holes one at a time and drive off. Surfcasters often go out alone, sometimes they screw up and get stuck. A shovel, jack board, 2x4x6 block of wood and a high lift bottle jack can get you unstuck if you're alone. I like the bottle jack because it's compact.
My regards,
Widewing