blackie27

Going to ride fins and things this weekend for the first time in my stock Jeep. My fiancé is going to be with me and in curious what kinds of things I could have her look for when spotting me. I imagine the simple things like avoiding high centering and helping direct my path, but curious what else.

Also fins is famous for some slick rock. Curious if there are any tips on ascending and descending. I imagine decreasing tire pressure and going into 4Lo. Would it be fine to be braked into 4Lo with the e-brake to take a picture for example? Would be awesome to get a picture of my Jeep on one of the fins!

jadmt

slick rock is like sandpaper so you get really good traction up and down. On really steep descents use your hill descent if automatic when in 4lo and in 1st gear it will hold you at 1 mph. 4lo and 1st gear if manual will do the same but not with the same control that hill descent gives. as far as spotting there really is nothing on fins and things that needs spotting other than maybe you will be nervous when you crest a climb and can not see down or come up to a descent and cant see over the hood. If you follow the dots/dashes you will not have problems. there will be black tire marks on the steep stuff just stay in the tire tracks. If you do need a spotter make sure they now what you want to do. Tell them where you want your driver front tire to be and have them guide you so they put your tire where you want it. I have taken people on fins and things who have never been in 4wd and they did not have any problem in stock jeeps. There is a video of a guy in an ltd doing fins and things and hells revenge. Last year on Hells revenge we had a guy in a stock 2wd Toyota follow us and he did the whole thing. I have done hells revenge while it was snowing and it still provided traction. Remember slow and easy as if you go too fast you will bottom out so slow and steady. Also fins and things is very well marked and I don't think you could get lost if you tried.

blackie27

Thanks!

TrailBadger

Remember, angle your approach and said angle could be circuital to this approach as the vehicle to tip over if too much weight has been incorrectly placed in or around the vehicle & if it looks to challenging, locate another plan of attack. There's aways another route to be driven on the same trail. Spoters are a great way to make contacts while others would be looking and learning about how well your spotter is doing. Hand signals are also critical in knowing what to look for. Knowing the correct hand signals can help the driver know what direction needs to be taken. Do not trust exterior cameras as the distance and range could be confusing. Same holds true for the side mirrors. Do Not follow any other vehicle to close as if they become trapped you could end up bottle necking and risk damage to both vehicles.

spinuck

I found it better to have my wife drive and me spot her when the need for a spotter comes in. Now she has more confidence driving off road. She drives entire trails like Pritchett canyon and the Rubicon now.

resharp001

Just a few general comments about spotters and obstacles:

1) passenger spotters, or people that don’t wheel themselves, often don’t understand or know how the jeep will react/roll to certain things. You need to realize that ultimately it’s your responsibility to know how the jeep will react through certain obstacles, and instruct the spotter EXACTLY where/how you are wanting them to guide you.

2) it drives me crazy when people get out to spot and use the terms “left” and “right”. As suggested, hand signals are nice, or instruct the spotter to use the terms “driver” or “passenger” when referencing which direction to turn the wheel.

3) slow and steady has already been mentioned. For very slick rock, the tire is more likely to grip when turning slowly. Too much power will just make the tire spin. Most rock isn’t as “slick” as you might think it is. Also, you’ll typically see plenty of tire marks guiding the proper line. In most instances, slow and steady = controlled and safer. Every now and then obstacles might call for a little momentum, but you should always attempt slow and steady first, access the situation, and THEN determine if momentum is going to make the difference or not if need be. Error on the side of caution.


Whenever I think of spotters without experience, I think of this video. No clue if she’d does this a lot or not, but “wtf is she doing” immediately comes to mind when she’s got the jeep cranked full driver’s side. Right then you should envision that jeep is gonna end up with passenger tire up on ledge, driver tire way down, and imagine the lean that sucker is gonna be at. I really have no clue what she’s thinking, but it’s completely opposite of what I would do. Where does she think the jeep is going slide to when she says “trust that it will slide”? It does EXACTLY what I envision it doing. At 30 secs in you see the first hint of what they’re in for! The driver obviously has no clue either and is trusting the spotter. Anyhow, I think the moral of the story is know your jeep, know how it will react, have some foresight, trust a spotter to do exactly what you instruct them to, and be careful who you trust. Don’t just willy nilly trust a random person to get you through an obstacle unless you have some basis to believe they know what they’re doing. Ugh, this video is a lesson in exactly what NOT to do. It honestly makes me uncomfortably to watch.

TrailBadger

@resharp001 I liked you post not because of the video, but because you've touch on several key points where as drivers think they can handle something when either they can't or the vehicle can't. because I'm no longer sure footed, I would not be able to spot a trail like this, however some scenic back woods trails are suitable for my spotting abilities.

resharp001

To be a good spotter, someone really needs to first be a good driver, and that is really just achieved with experience. The best way to get experience is really wheeling with a few experienced people. Watch others go through obstacles and pay attention to how their vehicles react and the lines they take. Then, when you go through the obstacle, you see and feel what your vehicle does. You also get a good sense of where that "pucker" factor is when you start feeling a bit uncomfortable....and almost always, that is way before you are even close to being in some precarious position. LOL. A lot of it is really about figuring out the type of situations you want to avoid getting in to.....like getting sideways on a ledge (like that video) or a steep hill. There is definitely a bit of an art to pulling up to some obstacle you've never been through, or seen someone go through, and determining the proper line to take....and it's all just knowing how the jeep is going to react.

We all have different wheelin' styles and locations. Most of things around my area are organized parks, but I go to Colorado and other places that are more just out in the wilderness which is quite different in the aspect of not having much "help" around should something go wrong. I'll throw out a few other thoughts/lessons that are sometimes learned the hard way:

1) If you're going to wheel, build/plan to be as self sufficient as possible. That means proper recovering equipment and tools. Do NOT rely on other people to have what you'll need to get out of a stick situation. Even if you're wheeling in a group, you should have the equipment needed to recover yourself or to perform a trail repair. Always strive to be the person OFFERING help rather than ASKING for help. This is imperative IMO if you head out on your own even occasionally. Winch, tow strap, tree saver, snatch block, and proper tools. If you don't have them, you should put them on a wish list. You never know when you might need these items, but I can promise you the rare occasion you might, you'll be glad you were prepared.

2) Obviously the best rule is never wheel alone, but sometimes it's unavoidable. When alone, always error on the side of caution. Have the foresight to play out the scenarios when pulling up to an obstacle, and think about the worst case scenarios. If something is an out-and-back, consider not only getting up something, but also the fact that you have to come back down it. Sometimes there can be 1 thing standing in the way of your destination, and you'll have a decision to make.....and sometimes the course of action it to turn around and feel dejected.....but the jeep lives to see another day.

3) much like spotting, you need to understand how to recover your vehicle from a sticky situation. Do not rely on others and just assume they know what they're doing just because they have a winch. When recovering, envision what the jeep is going to do and how it will react. You determine the proper recovery points and instruct how you'd like to proceed. I'm always surprised to pull up on someone being recovered and just kinda take at what approach they're taking. Conversely, when helping recover someone with your equipment, especially if you can tell they are not experience, ALWAYS be very clear on what your thoughts are and how you think the recovery should proceed, but have THEM make the decision to do it. I always outline my thoughts, hesitations, and potential "what ifs" and/or concerns, and let the other driver give the green light. Ultimately it is the vehicle's driver that is the responsible party.

4) in regards to tools, take what you have and could even remotely need. Don't rely on other peoples' tools, even if you know they're taking them. Sometimes that other person says they're taking tools and forgets. Sometimes their idea of "tools" doesn't include what you really need. Sometimes their tools are just crap. I've learned this lesson the hard way. I take everything I might possibly need. The further from home I'm going, the more important it is to take a wider scope of tools. Sometimes an item might not be obvious. You need to change a tire or jack the jeep up....do you have some wheel chocks to do it safely? Do you have an appropriate jack?

5) know how to perform common tasks. Imagine all the things that could happen to you out on a trail. If you had to, can you pull a drive shaft? Do you know how to pull your axle shafts? Do you have the tools you need to perform such tasks? There are certain things that might need a specialty tool. Bearing bolts are 13mm 12-point sockets. Most common sets only have a 1/4 or 3/8 drive 13mm 6-point socket, and that won't work. You might need remove the axle shaft nut which is a 36mm socket.....that's not a normal piece to have. Pulling factory drive shafts are much easier ifyou have a good 8mm socket on a swivel. I go so far as to carry tap and die set even. Anything I've ever needed to use in the garage to perform a task goes with me.

My post has gotten a bit off topic, but thought I'd just throw out a few more general wheelin' things to think about. You might not do as extreme type things, but these are still good ideas to keep in mind.

spinuck

resharp001

Ok, it's hard to find a good example of that slide....but at 2:59 in this video I see what you're talking about......BUT, they were no where close to achieving that on the first vid I posted. LOL. One of these days I gotta get over there. Such a time commitment from DFW.....and spousal unit has zero interest in the Jeep