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3.8 engine upgrades

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Old Jul 6, 2019 | 04:31 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Allthewayjumper
There is a way to solve the poor performance of the 3.8L. I have a solution. No lame responses like get a Hemi or worse a GM 350 or even chuck the whole set-up for a 2012-18 Wrangler. The Jeep community fails to recognize the planned obsolescence that goes into all NEW products. You have to consider why the 3.8L was able to meet emission regulation that allowed Jeep to use this engine design for the Wrangler. I will respond if you reply to my post.. I have logged 1,000's of miles with this current modification. Success is what I've had. Do not respond unless you are serious. Allthewayjumper!
Rumor has it this comes with a gift wrapped bridge over the East river.
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Old Jul 6, 2019 | 12:22 PM
  #12  
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Its likely this as it was in his profile:
"Pinched off EGR tube to intake. +3 MPG gain and more throttle response. Dramatically less oil usage."
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Old Jul 6, 2019 | 02:22 PM
  #13  
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.....PCV.....positive crankcase ventilation.....

Pinching it off sounds foolish. At least do a catch can if you don't want to have that line going in there. Maybe he gets a slightly better burn without crankcase fumes (oil and moisture) being dumped into the air intake but I doubt you'd see any real gains. Certainly not enough to post up about.

If that's the case then I've got a REAL secret for making the 3.8 a LOT better- take out the extra weight and it's like a rocket. I pulled my seat and large spare tire off for a move and it basically does 9's in the 1/4 mile
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Old Jul 6, 2019 | 02:35 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by Ajkaz
Its likely this as it was in his profile:
"Pinched off EGR tube to intake. +3 MPG gain and more throttle response. Dramatically less oil usage."
Have to comment on this...

A properly functioning EGR system increases MPG at part throttle by deceasing pumping losses (from increasing intake manifold pressure for a given amount of oxygen in the manifold). Also, blocking the EGR tube should set a DTC and light the CEL on the dash. The PCM also advances the spark timing further based on EGR valve opening to compensate for the slower burn rate with (inert) exhaust gas dilution. If the extra EGR spark advance occurs without actual exhaust gas dilution, the excess combustion pressures may cause detonation, or may simply be beyond the most efficient timing.

Book theory aside, I've actually turned off EGR within the PCM temporarily for a test (using the MPG calc from the dash and a few miles of test road on cruise control). And although it accelerated a bit smoother at part throttle, the MPG went down slightly just like physics predicts. If the MPG wasn't better with EGR, I'd start looking for an issue with the EGR system.


Last edited by Mr.T; Jul 6, 2019 at 04:00 PM.
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Old Jul 7, 2019 | 07:49 AM
  #15  
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The EGR system was not part of engine development. It was in response to EPA emissions regulations. I thought hard about how does the emissions control system work. That's when I had the AHHA moment. Yes, the trolls found out how I achieved a "cost nothing fix" to my little 3.8L getting choked to death by the injection of exhaust gases. The EGR raises the Catalytic Temperature causing the eventual reduction of tailpipe emissions downstream. The injection of exhaust gases into combustion chamber hurts the combustion and allows more raw fuel downstream to raise catalytic converter temps.The combustion process in the stock 3.8L is not complete. Newer engine designs don't have to use EGR to meet emission standards. The extra raw fuel flowing into the Combustion chambers and Converters is what got Jeep to use this engine in the 2007-11 Wrangler. Just crimping the EGR tube 1/2 closed will get you unbelievable throttle response. Better fuel mileage and LESS OIL CONSUMPTION and less downshifting or unlocking of torque converter of the Transmission.The EGR valve will still open and close as it should and not throw any fault codes. It's just that the fuel /air mixture is leaner and more efficient without the exhaust gas. All that raw fuel in the combustion chamber is like solvent to the oil. I was burning 1 quart of oil in 3000 mile. and the oil was black by then. After crimping the EGR tube completely closed, I instantly went to 4500 miles before I lost a quart of oil and the oil looks still semi transparent (clean). I do what I want with my JEEP. I did not want to have to rebuild it by messing with the factory setup. I was compelled to fix the problem with only a bolt cutter to crimp the tube. I could have ground off the crimp if it had no response. Here in Minnesota we don't have inspection stations and manufacturers' only have to warranty vehicle emission controls for 80k miles. The modification works. I have to run premium fuel to prevent high speed knock. The engine has knock sensor to retard timing anyway. I drove the Jeep several thousand my on 87 octane with minor pinging under acceleration. My concerns were more with high rpm pinging which I could not hear so I switched fuel to 91 octane. The factory fuel maps are set to expect the eventual failure of the EGR valve. I inspected the the combustion chambers with a camera through the spark plug holes and all is good. Piston tops are clean with concentric rings still visible from casting. I have 10s of thousands of miles on this mod. I average 19-20 mpg all the time and can get 22-23 mpg highway depending on head wind. I had to switch spark plugs to a Bosch double platinum because of shorter ceramic electrode and higher temps in combustion chambers. I could send you pics of what it looks like if you want to try. If not I will go my way and see you on the trails. Blessed are the Trolls. Allthewayjumper!
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Old Jul 7, 2019 | 08:08 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Allthewayjumper
The EGR system was not part of engine development. It was in response to EPA emissions regulations. I thought hard about how does the emissions control system work. That's when I had the AHHA moment. Yes, the trolls found out how I achieved a "cost nothing fix" to my little 3.8L getting choked to death by the injection of exhaust gases. The EGR raises the Catalytic Temperature causing the eventual reduction of tailpipe emissions downstream. The injection of exhaust gases into combustion chamber hurts the combustion and allows more raw fuel downstream to raise catalytic converter temps.The combustion process in the stock 3.8L is not complete. Newer engine designs don't have to use EGR to meet emission standards. The extra raw fuel flowing into the Combustion chambers and Converters is what got Jeep to use this engine in the 2007-11 Wrangler. Just crimping the EGR tube 1/2 closed will get you unbelievable throttle response. Better fuel mileage and LESS OIL CONSUMPTION and less downshifting or unlocking of torque converter of the Transmission.The EGR valve will still open and close as it should and not throw any fault codes. It's just that the fuel /air mixture is leaner and more efficient without the exhaust gas. All that raw fuel in the combustion chamber is like solvent to the oil. I was burning 1 quart of oil in 3000 mile. and the oil was black by then. After crimping the EGR tube completely closed, I instantly went to 4500 miles before I lost a quart of oil and the oil looks still semi transparent (clean). I do what I want with my JEEP. I did not want to have to rebuild it by messing with the factory setup. I was compelled to fix the problem with only a bolt cutter to crimp the tube. I could have ground off the crimp if it had no response. Here in Minnesota we don't have inspection stations and manufacturers' only have to warranty vehicle emission controls for 80k miles. The modification works. I have to run premium fuel to prevent high speed knock. The engine has knock sensor to retard timing anyway. I drove the Jeep several thousand my on 87 octane with minor pinging under acceleration. My concerns were more with high rpm pinging which I could not hear so I switched fuel to 91 octane. The factory fuel maps are set to expect the eventual failure of the EGR valve. I inspected the the combustion chambers with a camera through the spark plug holes and all is good. Piston tops are clean with concentric rings still visible from casting. I have 10s of thousands of miles on this mod. I average 19-20 mpg all the time and can get 22-23 mpg highway depending on head wind. I had to switch spark plugs to a Bosch double platinum because of shorter ceramic electrode and higher temps in combustion chambers. I could send you pics of what it looks like if you want to try. If not I will go my way and see you on the trails. Blessed are the Trolls. Allthewayjumper!
I am new to all of this with my 07 JK, but this post has perked my interest. What year is yours and I am interested in viewing the pic's, mine has 140k miles and an automatic. Purr's like a kitten..But I am always interested in fuel economy and increased power. Thanks
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Old Jul 7, 2019 | 11:47 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Allthewayjumper
<snip> The EGR raises the Catalytic Temperature causing the eventual reduction of tailpipe emissions downstream.</snip>
Where did you get that from? EGR actually lowers peak combustion temperatures to reduce oxides of nitrogen.

Originally Posted by Allthewayjumper
<snip> It's just that the fuel /air mixture is leaner and more efficient without the exhaust gas. All that raw fuel in the combustion chamber is like solvent to the oil. </snip>
Adding exhaust gas to the intake doesn't change the fuel/oxygen ratio. It's just like adding an inert gas -- It does not get leaner or richer with EGR flow.

Originally Posted by Allthewayjumper
<snip>The factory fuel maps are set to expect the eventual failure of the EGR valve. </snip>
This statement just doesn't make any sense. First is the mistaken belief above that with EGR the mixture is somehow richer. Second is the presumption that "fuel maps" are even used at part throttle. Unless the accel pedal is nearly full down, the "fuel maps" as you call them are not used -- It's running closed-loop using feedback from the O2 sensors. Not until nearly full throttle does it go into open-loop (O2 sensors not in control) where PE tables are used to adjust the fueling.

Originally Posted by Allthewayjumper
<snip> Yes, the trolls found out how I achieved a "cost nothing fix" to my little 3.8L </snip> <snip> Blessed are the Trolls. Allthewayjumper! </snip>
Come on, this is sounding like anyone that disagrees with you is a "troll".

I know this sounds like a lot of rain on your parade, but I like your enthusiasm for experimentation. No product or design is ever perfect, there's always room for improvement.

Last edited by Mr.T; Jul 7, 2019 at 12:50 PM. Reason: fixed typo
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Old Jul 7, 2019 | 12:52 PM
  #18  
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Anyone really interested in this Mod I will communicate with. I will not trade assumptions. This is a simple Mod. I will help those interested through it. Allthewayjumper!
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Old Jul 7, 2019 | 12:59 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Allthewayjumper
Anyone really interested in this Mod I will communicate with. I will not trade assumptions. This is a simple Mod. I will help those interested through it. Allthewayjumper!
I for one am interested in seeing the pic's and making the decision myself. I don't assume anything without prior knowledge, and I need all the ideas I can get...The 07 JK 3.8 Auto with 140k on it, I purchased it for emergencies as my wife has Dementia and I am a worn out disabled Nam Vet. I will never turn my eyes on a possible improvement with fuel mileage. Thanks
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Old Jul 7, 2019 | 03:44 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Allthewayjumper
Anyone really interested in this Mod I will communicate with. I will not trade assumptions. This is a simple Mod. I will help those interested through it. Allthewayjumper!
You've already traded a bunch of "assumptions", so don't get mad when someone points out the assumptions are false.

Here's part of a SAE article titled 2016 Pentastar V6 adds new VVT, cooled EGR that you might find interesting.
After the long period without EGR, engineers added a liquid-cooled system that has normally been a design feature only on many heavy-duty trucks. It reduces temperature of the exhaust gases from 650°C to 130°C.(1202°F/266°F), Lee told Automotive Engineering. The reduced gas temperature helps enable the higher compression ratio by suppressing knock at higher loads. And the EGR in itself delivers a 0.8% improvement in fuel economy and low NOx emissions.

Last edited by Mr.T; Jul 7, 2019 at 03:47 PM.
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