TacticalTankJKUR

Current status: Stock but I have a front bumper (PSC) and it came pretty well equipped but with 3.73 gears, automatic, 12k miles, 2015. Unlimited Rubicon. No lift, factory 32's.

Use: while I'd love to crawl the Rubicon every weekend the fact is I may do it once, or hit mild trails periodically, or occasionally. It is a 3rd vehicle so I can afford to be a little impractical. It is not a dedicated mall crawler but I did buy it for looks and utility (kids sports, ability to lightly tow, carry kayaks & fishing gear, etc). I don't want to eliminate myself from rock crawling altogether, but I don't see myself doing it often.

So I'm stuck between the "real jeeper's" 17's with 35" light weight KM2's and the "urban" side of me that likes that blown Havoc Project Crush build with the 22's and 37's that can be smoked from a stand still... but I do have a 400 HP BMW for this.

http://havocoffroad.com/jeep-wrangle...ect-crush.html

I had originally planned for 20's with 37's but went to a Jeep event and there were 2 guys out of 120 that had 20's. The one with 20's and 37's looked good but it was a dealer Jeep so he didn't go through any obstacles. The 20's with 35's looked too much like "low pro's/skateboard look" to me. I garnered a new respect for 17's until watching the havoc video. Even I think 22's are a little over the top for a Jeep but it has made me reconsider a bigger wheel and with that blower, it was impressive.

I think it's a waste to buy 17" wheels because you hardly notice them, but the factory wheels are too narrow for my taste so not much choice but to buy new wheels if I go 17's. Also I have apprehensions about running a 37" because I've bought into the "bend your axle housing" scare, and gusset/sleeve'ing keeps leading to Prorock 44's, which is $5500 I don't want to spend.

All that thinking lead me to considering an 18 with a 315/70R18, which for the uninitiated, is roughly a 36x13r18 with actual diameter of 35.5". It is sort of a happy medium... bigger than a 35 without too much of the stress from a 37, still have lots of sidewall, wheel isn't so small you don't notice your investment... thoughts?

Also, I'm trying to do things incrementally, so the cheapest way to get to wheels/tires is to put fender flares on and lift it later, but if I lift it, I may not even need flares. I'm torn between Metalcloak overland and hardlines. Cutting is cheap but I don't think its for me. So opinions on lift vs fenders are also welcome!

I'm looking at the Fuel "Full Blown" deep lip 18" or similar "Maverick" or "Lethal"

PS - Go ahead and flame, you can't hurt my feelings. Yes I've read a million threads but wanted one to call my very own. Yes I should've bought an Ultra4/KOH buggy but how would I tow it anywhere?

Thanks in advance!!!

TacticalTankJKUR

• Caveat... 17x8.5 Walker Evans beadlock wheels are pretty cool.

TheDirtman

So what is actually your question? 17" wheels or 18" wheels?

TacticalTankJKUR

I guess I'm just kind of bloviating, but was mostly interested in the 36" (35.5) Toyo idea... i.e. why isn't it more popular? I can safely assume the crowd is against 20's and in favor of 17's.

Also fenders vs lift issue to get to big wheels faster?

TheDirtman

20's are for posers that care about looks more then anything else. If it is your thing thats fine, just don't expect a lot of love from the jeep and off road crowd. 36" tires are more then you need and in 18" wheel size there are few options when compared to 17". 18" tires also tend to be E rated and will give you a stiff ride on the road. More side wall = more comfortable ride as the tires will absorb vibrations and small bumps. More sidewall and softer sidewall will give you better traction off road as well. They will however increase lean in cornering.

IF 36" tires are your thing then by all means get them. For what you describe you will be doing with your jeep its overkill and just remember the bigger the tires the poorer the performance of the Jeep if you don't do proper gearing to match them. 36" tires and 3.73 are not a good match although many will suffer thru with 35" tires and 3.73 just do to the cost of doing gears.

Good luck with the jeep.

TacticalTankJKUR

Thanks for the feedback! You have a monster gecko BTW.

It's interesting to me that Starwood, Havoc, 101motors, and almost every Jeep on EBAY and at SEMA is doing 20's but the Jeep crowd has such a negative opinion of them. So I guess they sell all of those Jeeps to posers for $100k. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating 20's for off-roading, but for every pro there's a con... so if I play devil's advocate for a minute... more sidewall and softer sidewall don't handle as well, so If I'm on-road 95% of the time, should I build my Jeep for that other 5%?

I guess for me, since it's a spare vehicle, sure, I can do whatever I want... and to some extent, yes, I'm a poser. I want 35.5's to be 1" bigger than everyone with 34.5" KM2's without the cost/hassle of going to 37's. Tire size is the end-all/be-all for off roading, no? So ya I guess I'm just trying to figure out if there is a happy medium. I don't want to do Dana 60's, and I don't even really want to spend the money on a PR44. I guess that rules out 40's for me... so what can I get away with on a stock D44 maybe with sleeve/gusset/truss? And the truss comes later since it's not lifted.

If I plan my build it's:

$600 for sleeve and gusset (first?)
$1200 for metalcloak flares (second?)
$3000 for 5 wheels and tires (third?)
$2500 for a 3.5" metalcloak gamechanger lift
$1300 for gears and procal


I also want a truss and rear bumper/tire carrier ($2k? for both)

So after $10,600 on top of my $38k I spent on the Jeep, yes, I'd like it to look nice and be capable. Nothing wrong with that, right? After it's fully built, I'd probably be more inclined to tackle the larger obstacles. I don't really want to roll it or beat it to hell since I just bought it, but I would like to use it as a Jeep and perhaps do search and rescue.

Of course that doesn't include beefed up drag link, tie rod, drive shaft, HD ball joints, winch, wench, booze...

Like my buddy said when I bought the quick release bolts for the hardtop... that Jeep is gonna cost you $100k six bucks at a time!

As far as E rated tire, I guess I have more research to do. I want a tire that will last a long time, which I'm guessing is a hard compound, less comfortable, less capable tire...

Maybe there's a mall crawler forum I should be reading?

nthinuf

What hassle is there to a 37 that you completely bypass with a 36? Just an opinion, but you want 37's, so why waste time and money by compromising on a tween size. (It is not uncommon to see posts from people who bought the compromise size, usually 34's, sold for a loss, and went ahead and upgraded to the size they knew they should bought in the first place...)

Also, have you seen that the km3 is in the works? You could be buying a tire that will get harder, and very expensive, to find a replacement for. (a while back when I was looking at new 37's, the km2's for my 16 rims had doubled in price to over $600 each...)

TacticalTankJKUR

Well I guess I just assumed that 36's were less expensive and easier on the vehicle than 37's. It seems as though everyone says 35's are as big as you can go without a big jump in wear & tear on the vehicle and the need to replace the stock front axle. So the metric size tire is only 1/2" bigger than the 35 number people use even though it's sometimes called a 36, and while I like the BFG's that are on my rubi, I used the KM2 as an example because they are an undersized 35, from what I can gather anyway. They sure are light! The cost on the metric Toyo I was looking at was $360/tire and some of the 35's (Nitto for example) were more, so it seemed like a good price point for that particular tire. I'm not missing the fact that an 18" has fewer options for tires than a 17". Heck the 20" seems to have more options than the 18". It's like the oddball 19" wheels I have on my BMW... rare = more expensive. Thanks for the heads-up on the KM3 though, I'll check it out. The Ridge Grappler also just came out.

Part of me thinks I'd be perfectly happy with 35's as long as I was on a 17" rim. The desire for 37's came about because I thought a 35 wasn't enough meat on a 20 and so I was going to do 37's on 20's, which I think looks good even though I am in the minority. But then I keep getting talked out of it because 37's are so expensive and I would need Dana 60's, and new everything. Heck I bought the Rubicon knowing I had the option to do a sport and replace the front axle but at the time I was convinced the D44 would be sufficient, and it had lockers and swaybar disco's, etc... plus I came across a good deal on the Rubi I bought ($6k cheaper from the Toyota dealership than across the parking lot at the Jeep dealership). Nobody really spelled out Rubi = 35" tire max or else it is more cost effective to go sport. Or maybe I just didn't listen! Lol... It wouldn't be the first time!

TheDirtman

So by your logic you are going to put an AT tire on that jeep for all of the highway driving you are going to do right, not an aggressive mud terrain?

Who in their right mind would run a tire that gets little mileage out of them and cost $$$ and kills fuel economy. Logic says run a factory size tire.

Economy of scale. There are more 17" wheels out there on the road period and the tire manufactures are going to cater to the biggest crowd. This is why there are so many choices in the 17" tire size and a reason why 17" tires are cheaper then 18" and bigger. There is almost no support for 20" tires as there are few on the road. I will tell you though if you take 20's off road a couple times you will have them pretty trashed out if you do any trail that has rocks on it and then you will wonder why you spent all that money on 20's and tires as trashed out wheels don't look all that great on a mall crawler.

"mall crawlers" and builds built for looks are all emotion and logic is thrown out the door. Most want the look and don't know about suspensions or mechanics of the JK. They don't understand the extra maintenance or extra stuff you can't see to fit big wide tires. Most new jeep users think they have to lift if for some reason, it is just a myth out there. It does little for the jeep in terms of performance and typically makes it handle poorly both on road and off. You would believe how many "new owner looking at 4" lift" threads I have seen. Its hard to give the mall crawlers info because they are generally looking for justification of what they want to do and generally don't want to spend the money. Lots of new jeepers see 37's on the forums and say "I want that, but I am on a budget" That quote is in conflict with itself. Up until the JK a 32" tire was a big upgrade on a wrangler and you can see those jeeps with 32"-33" tires running all over the Rubicon or Moab. Today for some reason everyone thinks you need to run 37's or up if you are even thinking about driving down a dirt road or the beach. As for SEMA that is a show to advertise mods so they are going to be loaded up with bling and every thing you can bolt on to a jeep. Then there are companies like rebel that have customers that want that SEMA look and have the money to pay for it. You will always have the money crowd like celebrities and hedge fund managers that want that weekend warrior build that gets people to look at them. Most will never even put the jeep in 4wd or will do that on the pavement and break something. Yes they are "posers" with lots of money.

Its your jeep and your money and 35's are more then enough tire to run what you describe you are doing without spending a lot of money on "upgrades". Some flat fenders and maybe a 3/4" spacer lift or more if you load it down with lots of armor (not needed). I would not waste the money on a "truss" as most do little to actually add any real strength to where you need it in the axle. IF you want 36" tires then put on 36" tires just realize as you go bigger things wear faster and require more modification for fitment, off road things break easier the bigger you go. Are 36" easier to fit then 37's yes but they are not the same as running a 35" tire.

Good luck.

TacticalTankJKUR

Great advice, thanks! I have a ton of crap floating in my head obviously, and some of it is conflicting. I have been shopping and pricing stuff out, and deciding which direction to go. 35's with a budget boost and fenders seems to be the quickest way to "incrementally" advance my build without breaking the bank. I do see the need for a lift because I've already rubbed my belly over a modest hill at Praire City, but maybe the 2-3" of additional clearance from the tires and BB would resolve that.