CO2 system
03-16-2018, 08:18 AM
#1
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
CO2 system
Looking to make my own CO2 system for filling tires. Found a few threads with great links but all the posts are old from 2011 or so. Not finding anything newer so it got me thinking if it's not a good idea anymore?? Is anyone still doing it? Looking for ideas, pros, cons etc. I'd like to do a 10# system as I'm running 35's. Thanks for any ideas of comments on the subject
03-16-2018, 08:16 PM
#2
JK Junkie
No one I've known ever got into CO2. I think the advantage of CO2 being faster is often outweighed by the disadvantage of limited supply, ongoing cost, and the time/trouble getting it. I take long trips, two weeks or more away from home, and running out of CO2 would be a major problem. Thinking mine takes around 15-20 minutes with a Viar, and if I'm with others they take about the same time. Some of that is just getting out hoses, gauges, and such. It would be nice to air up quicker, especially if there's only 10-20 miles of pavement, but probably only advantageous while alone since most are going to use air compressors.
A friend just did an off-road rally where time is precious. She might do it again and we talked about CO2, or maybe just two air compressors (there is a co-driver) and cut the time in half. If you end up doing CO2, post back here. It would be interesting.
A friend just did an off-road rally where time is precious. She might do it again and we talked about CO2, or maybe just two air compressors (there is a co-driver) and cut the time in half. If you end up doing CO2, post back here. It would be interesting.
Last edited by Mr.T; 03-16-2018 at 08:20 PM.
03-17-2018, 03:29 AM
#3
Super Moderator
People still use co2, Brad (Trail Recon on YouTube) just did a video on it. Co2 can also run air tools which can be handy. I'm in the same camp as EHarris though, a compressor works and I can run air tools with a small tank.
In regards to increasing speed of the fill- a member did a hose system with clip on air chucks that flow air faster than your press on style. Trail Recon has a video on that as well....with parts listed.
In regards to increasing speed of the fill- a member did a hose system with clip on air chucks that flow air faster than your press on style. Trail Recon has a video on that as well....with parts listed.
03-17-2018, 06:27 AM
#4
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
I appreciate all the feedback. I've weighed the compressor issue vs. the CO2 and for what I'm doing now which is 1 day trips on the weekends I believe the CO2 system will serve me best. Now if I start doing multiple day trips I may invest in a compressor as well. It's a mechanical device and with a lot of use comes possible breakdowns so having 2 systems might be a good idea anyway. I'm a DIY kinda guy so that's why I started researching this topic. I've always said that I have more time than money so if I can build a comparable system myself for cheaper than I'll do it.
03-18-2018, 04:46 PM
#5
JK Enthusiast
A year or more ago I watched a "how to" video in which the guy detailed the parts list for a 10lb system. I saved off the parts list (all on Amazon) and when I last checked noticed many of the 10lb CO2 cylinders cannot be shipped to California? I'd like to make one also for short trips.
03-18-2018, 06:11 PM
#6
Super Moderator
Here's some tips from FIRE UP/Scott from the JK WF forums that may be useful. He built his own CO2 system.
If you're going to mount a tank, CO2 is the way to go because once it leaves the tank it expands quite a bit and gives you a lot of bang for the buck.
If you're going to mount a tank, CO2 is the way to go because once it leaves the tank it expands quite a bit and gives you a lot of bang for the buck.
I have been asked on the PM side to show and or explain how to mod the valve on a CO2 system so the system (tank) can be used in both the completely horizontal and, vertical positions. I was going to answer that PM but, cannot include pics on the PM side because, there's no "Manage attachments" in that section of the forum. So, here goes.
The valve itself is not modified. There is only components added to it, to make this mod work. The cost is around a whopping $3 to $5 total, depending on where you get your parts. The hardest part of doing this mod is, getting the valve off the tank. Sometimes it's been put on with magilla gorilla tightness. That is not needed. There is an O-ring on the base of the valve. The valve needs to be good and snug when this mod it completed. The O-ring will do its job.
When you finally get the valve off, there will be some internal threads in the bottom of it. They are not used. But, we use them in this mod. In the pics below, you'll see the exact fitting (one to be exact) that will be needed. Along with that fitting, you'll need about 8 or so inches of, either 1/4" or 3/8" soft copper tubing. I say 1/4" or 3/8" because, to me, using the 3/8" size, simply allows for more flow of the CO2 gas than a 1/4" one will. But, it's not super critical. Whichever size you desire, you'll need to purchase the correct sized adapter fitting for that size of copper tubing.
The fitting that is used is this one:
https://www.plumbingsupply.com/compr...ings.html#male
Or, I should say, the one I used was the 3/8" version. That page shows all sizes of the kind I used. Now, as for the soft copper tubing, you'll probably have to buy (if you don't have some hanging around like I did) at least a foot of it. But, it must be SOFT copper tubing. The standard hard stuff that comes in standard lengths, won't bend, it will definitely KINK! So, make sure it's the soft stuff.
Now, here's the critical criteria. In the pictures, you'll see that that piece of tubing is bent at a 90° angle. Where the criticalness is, the distance from the flange, where the O-ring rezides, to the bend MUST be the same distance from the top of the tank, (where the valve is seated) to the point on the inside of the tank, where vertical becomes the curve of the tank.
Picture it like this. If you were saw that tank in half, lengthways, and lay it on its side, picture that modified valve installed, with the bent piece of soft copper tubing, with its tip, right at the beginning of the curiture point.
And, the end of that newly formed piece of copper tubing, cannot touch the inside of the tank. It will be calculated to be cut off, just around an 1/8th to 3/16ths away from the inside of the tank.
Now, here's the way it all works. CO2 is a substance that can be in a liquid or gaseous state. When it's in that tank, and pressurized, it's in its liquid state. But, when it's expelled, into the atmosphere, or your tires, it is a gas. Most folks don't know the technical specs of this stuff but, we had to learn it in the academy of the FD a few thousand years ago. CO-2 expands 800-900 times its volume of liquid, when in the gas form. So, this is why it's the preferred substance for multiple uses. Things like nail guns, tires, some tools and more. Basically, what comes out of the tank is a LOT MORE than what's IN THE TANK.
So, with all that jargon and B/S out of the way, you DON'T want CO-2 liquid coming out of the valve, it will freeze up. When the tanks are filled at your local tank filling supply house, they're normally filled up to 80% of their capacity. They do that because, they know that CO-2 will expand INSIDE that tank some. If it's filled too much, there is what's known as a "frangible disk" in that valve that will act as a safety blow-off pressure release cap. They don't want that to happen so, the tank is filled to 80%.
What this all means is, when that tank (actually any sized CO-2 tank) is filled, it's filled to just below that starting or, beginning of the curve, at the top section of the tank. Above that, it's a gas. That is in the standing up position. When the tank is laying down, horizontally, the liquid state is also, below that beginning of the curvature/transition from horizontal to vertical.
So, with tip of that piece of copper tubing, right at that bend in the inside of the tank and, very close to the inside but, NOT TOUCHING the tank, you will be able to extract GAS from the inside of that tank, through the valve, in either the horizontal or, the vertical position. Sorry for the long-winded explanation on the CO-2 world of operation but, I wanted anyone who's interested in this to know EXACTLY why it's critical to make this mod exactly the way it's needed to be done so that it works as intended.
As stated, I don't have to move that tank when I'm filling my tires. The hose is not constantly connected. I can do that in maybe 3 seconds or so. Then, simply pull the hose out and go to work, filling the tires.
By the way, for the soul purpose of filling tires with this CO-2 system, there is absolutely NO NEED for an expensive regulator that's adjustable and or with a gauge. Not at all. All that's needed, as you'll see in the pics, is a FIXED regulator. It's fixed or, I should say is permanently set at 150 psi. The psi you'll put in your tires is regulated by the tire chuck system you attach to the hose. The hose can easily take the 150 psi.
One more point. And this is important too. When the modification is complete and installed, you need to know or, make sure you have setup, the orientation of the TOP of that end of the bent copper tubing so that, when your tank is laying down, in the horizontal position, that tip is pointing UP. That's kind of a given but, I want to make sure, all who may take on this endeavor, know all the critical info for this system to work.
When the tank is in the vertical position, nothing matters, it will still expel gas through the valve and regulator. But, when lying down, It MUST BE ORIENTED TO A PREDETERMINED POSITION!
Ok, I think I've explained it enough for you boys (and girls if some here) reading can get this done, without getting in trouble. If there's any questions, be sure to ask.
Scott
P.S. In the one pic with the longer, bent piece of copper tubing, it's only long because it's easier to handle and bend when it's longer than when it's shorter. Once the calculation is made to where the bend needs to be, then, after bending, a tad more calculation is needed to determine just how short you need to cut it off so that the tip, is very close but, not touching the inside of the tank. You'll get it, it's not that hard.
The valve itself is not modified. There is only components added to it, to make this mod work. The cost is around a whopping $3 to $5 total, depending on where you get your parts. The hardest part of doing this mod is, getting the valve off the tank. Sometimes it's been put on with magilla gorilla tightness. That is not needed. There is an O-ring on the base of the valve. The valve needs to be good and snug when this mod it completed. The O-ring will do its job.
When you finally get the valve off, there will be some internal threads in the bottom of it. They are not used. But, we use them in this mod. In the pics below, you'll see the exact fitting (one to be exact) that will be needed. Along with that fitting, you'll need about 8 or so inches of, either 1/4" or 3/8" soft copper tubing. I say 1/4" or 3/8" because, to me, using the 3/8" size, simply allows for more flow of the CO2 gas than a 1/4" one will. But, it's not super critical. Whichever size you desire, you'll need to purchase the correct sized adapter fitting for that size of copper tubing.
The fitting that is used is this one:
https://www.plumbingsupply.com/compr...ings.html#male
Or, I should say, the one I used was the 3/8" version. That page shows all sizes of the kind I used. Now, as for the soft copper tubing, you'll probably have to buy (if you don't have some hanging around like I did) at least a foot of it. But, it must be SOFT copper tubing. The standard hard stuff that comes in standard lengths, won't bend, it will definitely KINK! So, make sure it's the soft stuff.
Now, here's the critical criteria. In the pictures, you'll see that that piece of tubing is bent at a 90° angle. Where the criticalness is, the distance from the flange, where the O-ring rezides, to the bend MUST be the same distance from the top of the tank, (where the valve is seated) to the point on the inside of the tank, where vertical becomes the curve of the tank.
Picture it like this. If you were saw that tank in half, lengthways, and lay it on its side, picture that modified valve installed, with the bent piece of soft copper tubing, with its tip, right at the beginning of the curiture point.
And, the end of that newly formed piece of copper tubing, cannot touch the inside of the tank. It will be calculated to be cut off, just around an 1/8th to 3/16ths away from the inside of the tank.
Now, here's the way it all works. CO2 is a substance that can be in a liquid or gaseous state. When it's in that tank, and pressurized, it's in its liquid state. But, when it's expelled, into the atmosphere, or your tires, it is a gas. Most folks don't know the technical specs of this stuff but, we had to learn it in the academy of the FD a few thousand years ago. CO-2 expands 800-900 times its volume of liquid, when in the gas form. So, this is why it's the preferred substance for multiple uses. Things like nail guns, tires, some tools and more. Basically, what comes out of the tank is a LOT MORE than what's IN THE TANK.
So, with all that jargon and B/S out of the way, you DON'T want CO-2 liquid coming out of the valve, it will freeze up. When the tanks are filled at your local tank filling supply house, they're normally filled up to 80% of their capacity. They do that because, they know that CO-2 will expand INSIDE that tank some. If it's filled too much, there is what's known as a "frangible disk" in that valve that will act as a safety blow-off pressure release cap. They don't want that to happen so, the tank is filled to 80%.
What this all means is, when that tank (actually any sized CO-2 tank) is filled, it's filled to just below that starting or, beginning of the curve, at the top section of the tank. Above that, it's a gas. That is in the standing up position. When the tank is laying down, horizontally, the liquid state is also, below that beginning of the curvature/transition from horizontal to vertical.
So, with tip of that piece of copper tubing, right at that bend in the inside of the tank and, very close to the inside but, NOT TOUCHING the tank, you will be able to extract GAS from the inside of that tank, through the valve, in either the horizontal or, the vertical position. Sorry for the long-winded explanation on the CO-2 world of operation but, I wanted anyone who's interested in this to know EXACTLY why it's critical to make this mod exactly the way it's needed to be done so that it works as intended.
As stated, I don't have to move that tank when I'm filling my tires. The hose is not constantly connected. I can do that in maybe 3 seconds or so. Then, simply pull the hose out and go to work, filling the tires.
By the way, for the soul purpose of filling tires with this CO-2 system, there is absolutely NO NEED for an expensive regulator that's adjustable and or with a gauge. Not at all. All that's needed, as you'll see in the pics, is a FIXED regulator. It's fixed or, I should say is permanently set at 150 psi. The psi you'll put in your tires is regulated by the tire chuck system you attach to the hose. The hose can easily take the 150 psi.
One more point. And this is important too. When the modification is complete and installed, you need to know or, make sure you have setup, the orientation of the TOP of that end of the bent copper tubing so that, when your tank is laying down, in the horizontal position, that tip is pointing UP. That's kind of a given but, I want to make sure, all who may take on this endeavor, know all the critical info for this system to work.
When the tank is in the vertical position, nothing matters, it will still expel gas through the valve and regulator. But, when lying down, It MUST BE ORIENTED TO A PREDETERMINED POSITION!
Ok, I think I've explained it enough for you boys (and girls if some here) reading can get this done, without getting in trouble. If there's any questions, be sure to ask.
Scott
P.S. In the one pic with the longer, bent piece of copper tubing, it's only long because it's easier to handle and bend when it's longer than when it's shorter. Once the calculation is made to where the bend needs to be, then, after bending, a tad more calculation is needed to determine just how short you need to cut it off so that the tip, is very close but, not touching the inside of the tank. You'll get it, it's not that hard.
As for the gent who used(uses) a 5# CO2 system, yeah, that by far is way too small of a refill system. As stated, I have the 10# system and, I almost think I should have initially built a 15# system. My 10# system will refill my 315s from 10 psi trail pressure to 28-30 psi street pressure almost 5 times before it's completely empty. Then it costs me $15.00 to get it refilled.
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ShawnInPaso (03-21-2018)
03-18-2018, 07:28 PM
#7
JK Junkie
Recreational Co2
Side note: That's good info Red!
Last edited by Mr.T; 03-18-2018 at 07:32 PM.
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ShawnInPaso (03-21-2018)
Trending Topics
03-20-2018, 09:49 AM
#8
When I had my 67 Scout rock crawler I used a #20 Co2 tank for air ups and use of air tools. Got the tank from a welding supply store and used a regulator exactly like this one.
https://www.ebay.com/i/192327720568?chn=ps&dispItem=1
When the scout was street legal I would air up 37's and run air tools on 8-9 trips before having to replace the tank for $15 exchange.
Got some funny looks from people when they heard that impact sound in the middle of the forest.
https://www.ebay.com/i/192327720568?chn=ps&dispItem=1
When the scout was street legal I would air up 37's and run air tools on 8-9 trips before having to replace the tank for $15 exchange.
Got some funny looks from people when they heard that impact sound in the middle of the forest.
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ShawnInPaso (03-21-2018)
03-20-2018, 12:39 PM
#9
JK Enthusiast
I built my own system. I only run a 5 lb tank on mine it fills 11 315/76/16 tires from 12 to 30lbs. I bought a 10 lb originally but my gas place place quit doin exchanges on the 10s. I tried a 5 and liked the size better than a 15. I picked up a 150lb fixed regulator from poly performance for around 50$ and the hoses fittings etc are from lowes. I would rough guess maybe 120$ in it all together.
03-22-2018, 07:09 PM
#10
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
A year or more ago I watched a "how to" video in which the guy detailed the parts list for a 10lb system. I saved off the parts list (all on Amazon) and when I last checked noticed many of the 10lb CO2 cylinders cannot be shipped to California? I'd like to make one also for short trips.
The following users liked this post:
ShawnInPaso (03-22-2018)