Creaking noise when in 4WD after lift
 

Hi folks,
Last year after installing my lift (2in Mopar) and then going offroad for the 1st time, I noticed a creaking noise from the front every time I climbed up a small hill or the suspension did any type of flex. I inspected the front and found my front TB was coming in contact with one of the fins on my Solid front diffy cover. So I ground that fin down this spring to fix that clearance problem.

I went to my cousins this past weekend who owns 70 acres of wooded property, where we did some exploring of his property forging our own trails in my Jeep. I found that creaking noise was still there. My cousin previously was a CJ owner, and said that sounds like your CV joint, are you in 4wd? Yes...I am. I took it out of 4WD, and sure enough the creaking noises went away.

When I originally lifted, I used adjustable LCAs for caster correction and when I did an alignment check, my caster came in at L/F=2.9deg, R/F=2.5deg. Which is lower than what I was aiming for and have been meaning to lengthen those arms to push it closer to the 4.5-5deg range.

My questions are....
Is it likely that the creaking sounds I'm hearing is my front CV joint?
Does it make sense that having the lower caster could be causing my CV joint to creak when in 4WD and flexing?
If I extended the length of the front LCA's, and raised the caster, could that fix the creak noise issues I'm hearing?

Unlikely man, have you visually inspected the front driveshaft near the transfercase? The stock driveshaft (which I'm assuming you're running up front? on the mobile app so can't check) can operate at some pretty crazy angles; it's more forgiving than an aftermarket double carden.

If it's spitting grease near the transfercase or the u-joint near the diff has play, then it's toast. Usually a bad CV is more of a clicking noise than a creak.

Can you post a video replicating the noise?

Another way to check would be to swap driveshafts with a buddy and give it a go. I don't think it's your axle u-joints either, those would be a clicking/clunk for sure.

But to answer your question about the caster and not adjusting it being the potential source of a failed cv: no. Since adding caster back means extending the lowers, all that does is actually change both driveshaft angles to be more extreme. That's why people who run aftermarket shafts always face the dilemma of caster vs. driveline vibes.

Good luck, I had a mystery clicking noise for a while that only happened in 4wd. Turned out to be my REAR driveshaft (I was just as confused).

I’m agreeing with BoraBora on this one. It’s a bit hard since we all describe sounds differently. I’ve had that CV joint fail on a factory shaft, and it is definitely a “clicking” sound…..and I can’t see that very common sound being confused as “creaking”. Also, when I had factory shaft, that sucker performed at some extreme angles during offroading, and I never heard any kind of creaking under stress at said angles. Also what BoraBora said…..raising your caster is actually going to increase the angle at the CV joint…which would seem to make matters worse under your theory, not better. Have you crawled under there to ensure you’re not spitting grease under the tub above that joint? Typically that’s an issue on higher lifts than your 2”, but I have seen a buddy on 2.5” lift that never left the pavement have the same DS failure there, so you never know. Maybe it’s just on it’s way out.

Unfortunately these dang sounds are hard to record. Can you duplicate it at all putting it in 4WD on flat ground? Is it only during offcamber terrain? Happen when going both forwards and backwards? Possible to have someone else in the driver’s seat while you listen right next to the jeep? Outside of a visual inspection spotting something like spewed grease, I think you’re gonna have to find a way to reproduce the sound regularly at which point you’ll probably be able to pinpoint it or at least describe exactly the scenario it make it in.

I need to crawl under there. I was planning on adjusting my arms this weekend, so I'll inspect that CV joint while I'm under there. I was hoping I could kill 2 birds with one stone by adjusting the arms if the CV joint isn't already messed up. Hoping I'm not having to replace the CV joint or drive shaft as well.

Yep, the sound is hard to describe. It sounds like an occasional creaking noise. Kind of like one of those old scary movie haunted house doors creaking. I wasn't doing any major flexing. I didn't even bother to disconnect my front sway bars. Typical fire trail kind of stuff. It happens when one of my tires drops into something the size of a small pot hole, or a small bump and also climbing up small inclines, like a 6 foot tall hill with a 20 degree slope. It doesn't happen when in 4WD and driving on a flat surface. Only when in 4WD and driving off road, over small bumps/holes.

The good thing is that I recently completely repainted my under carriage. So if it's something else, hopefully I can just find where the fresh paint is worn off. :D

Honestly it might be that you didn't disconnect, those sway bar bushings are under a lot of stress when one tire travels and the other doesn't.

Now that you mention it, mine does the same thing if I'm connected and driving a fire road. Disconnect the front and give it a go?

I was thinking roughly the same, cept that in the OP he said it was creaking, took it out of 4WD, and the creaking stopped. I guess there is just that tiny bit of coincidence the terrain flattened out at that moment, but what seemed to trigger it was being off camber and not on flat land which is what was making me question it. Will be curious to hear.

Thanks for the advise.

That's why I'm currently leaning towards something in the front drive shaft connections between the T-Case and the axle, because when I took it out of 4WD, it all went away. It actually got kind of embarrassing since there were a couple ladies riding along with us and every time it creaked they would let out a gasp and ask, "Is something going to break?". It seemed it was creaking going over every little bump where I decided to just put it in 2WD unless I found myself in a situation where I absolutely needed 4WD. It really did go from frequent creaks to absolutely no creaks when switching back and forth between 4WD to 2WD. So that's why I'm leaning away from the things like sway bars, Track Bars and such, which shouldn't make a difference if it's in 4WD or not.

Ok, I revisited this some more.

To me, my CV joint looks ok.
https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B9VL...Gh6emtVeno0S2c

So I did some more driving while in 4WD on some small grassy knoll hills around my house. It seems like something is binding when I steer. So when I turn my wheel, then drive on some terrain that is off camber while in 4WD, then the creaks can be heard. Take it out of 4WD and drive on the same area, creaks are gone.

Anyone have any thoughts of what to look at?

I'ld like to put a camera under there to see if I can find out more of what's going on. I have no real clue of how I'm going to mount the camera, or what to point it at. Currently, I'm guessing maybe a front double cardan drive shaft may be in my future mod plans based off of it only making the sounds when in 4WD and during turning/flexing.

When I adjusted my front LCA length recently, I loosened up all the front control arm and TB bolts, bounced on the front bumper and re-tightened them down to eliminate any type of possible suspension binding. None of that fixed this problem.

I'm going to check my front diffy fluid level today as well.

U joints? If either the front axle u joint or drive shaft u joints were just starting to go bad? U would get binding and creaking. I know they click when they fail but I've had them bind and squeak when they are just starting to go. I didn't see if you said where the noise is coming from? Maybe have someone walk next to the jeep while u drive and try to isolate the area.

The noise is coming from the front. General proximity would be anywhere along the front axle area.

How can I tell if the front U-joints are going bad?

I'd try to replicate the conditions and have someone drive it while you walk next to it and identify the source. All i can share is my experience, and when my axle u joint went, I could feel the binding in the wheel a week before it made any noise. I thought it might be tire cupping and i needed to rotate the tires, then it started squeaking. Same as you described, like a shitty door hinge. I knew what it was right away. I know that the u joints click when they completely fail, i've heard them. But i have also felt them bind and and squeak when the cap seals start to go and you get that squeak under load.

I don't remember if you said the squeaking was rotational, like squeaking related to tire rotation or if it was completely random and related to suspension articulation.

Like others have said, CV joints are going to grind or click when they fail not bind. With the binding and squeaking you describe, my money is on the front DS u joint. Since u joint aren't CV, there is addition cyclical force placed on the caps under angle and load. If it is that, you have a long time until it fails completely and its a $70 fix ($30 for the new joint and $40 to have a local shop press it in)... again assuming that is what it is.

Thing that really sux is that a lot of this is just trial and error. Got a buddy with a factory shaft? The easiest thing would be swap shafts real quick and see if problem persists. At least it would narrow down or eliminate the front DS quickly.

Nope, I was actually thinking of picking up a factory DS off of Craigslist to try that out, then I kind of started thinking about not wasting my time and money and spend some more on an Adams DS but I hate the thought of just throwing parts at a problem. I have a trip coming up to Silver Lake sand dunes, and wanted to fix this problem before then. Wanted to try to avoid a situation of something breaking while offroading on the trip, although the benefit would be of me knowing exactly what's creaking and needs to be fixed. ;)

That sounds like a very likely diagnosis. I would say it is somewhat rotational. I turn the steering wheel, move forward to approach a climb up a small hill and right when the tires first start going up the incline of the hill is when I hear the creak sound, then it stops as I'm climbing up the incline, and then creaks again, as I go over the crest of the hill and when I 1st begin to climb back down, it will creak. Definitely a wooden door creak type of sound.

I'll see if I can find a way to mount a camera underneath and take some video and aim the camera towards the U-joints.

Sounds more like a bushing that's creaking to me. Maybe a control arm binding a little. It wont necessarily make the same noise by just jumping on the bumper.
Maybe even the sway bar mounts

Just a thought

Thanks for the suggestions. I still need to put a camera underneath it and take some video. However, if it was a bushing or control arm, then why would the sound go away when in 2WD?

My bad. I was focused on the "flexing" part and missed where you took it out of 4WD. I haven't heard a driveshaft creak. All the JK driveshafts I have heard start clicking when they start to go.
Just going over things in my head.

The only other thing I could think to throw into the factor is the added torque to the front drive line while in 4WD. I'm kinda stumped on this one. I just cant think of anything else that would make a creaking noise. But then again, what I imagine as a creaking noise could be completely different then the creaking sound you actually have. LOL

Hope you figure it out. I'm curious now.

I would eliminate anything you think is obvious, then start thinking "outside the box" on possible causes. Sometimes its the things you would least expect. Good luck!

Is your front axle the standard D30 with BLD? Or do you have the limited slip?

I was just thinking if its the BLD, maybe the brake is being applied (correctly or incorrectly)to one side do to the BLD system?

Now I'm just throwing things out there:rotflmao2: But that was another thing that could "creak" so I had to...

It is the open Dana 30. So I can't elliminate that possibility. I'm going to the sand dunes next weekend. I was hoping to get this figured out before then, but I've been working on so many other things, I haven't had a chance to dig into this enough. Changing trans fluid this weekend.

Just hoping something doesn't break on the dunes. I'll have tools so pulling a front DS shouldn't be too difficult if it's the U joints.n

Was searching for something else and ran across this post again. Just curious if you ever figured out what that was?

Curious as well...

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to track this one down. Then on top of that, the trip I had planned on going to the dunes got derailed at the last minute. My 6 y/o son came down with some type of flu the night before we were to leave for the dune trip. So the 4WD creaking is still a mystery to me.

I still suspect the front U-joints. I actually started shopping around for a replacement front Adam's drive shaft, figuring I can kill 2 birds with 1 stone if I get a DS which includes front U-Joints. I'm likely gonna have to duct tape a camera under there to figure this out, or replace the DS and see if it goes away,...unless the ghost decides to give itself up before then and something decides to break.

I'm re-visting my creaking sound. Today, I put a video camera underneath to see if I could see where the sound was coming from. Unfortunately, I waited too long and it was dusk out where I really couldn't see much of anything on the video. I taped the video camera to the driver side front lower control arm and pointed it at the front drive shaft U-Joints. While recreating the noise, I noticed while looking out the window, that the noise seemed to be coming more from each wheel. So I turned the cam around and pointed it towards the driver side wheel and sure enough, the sound was louder on the video when pointed at the driver side wheel. This led me to believe maybe it was my ball joints, so I went to inspect the ball joints. Yep, my ball joints are due to be replaced but there wasn't a lot of movement.

What I really noticed that looked in pretty bad shape were my axle U-Joints.

So here's what they look like.

Drive side axle U-Joint
https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1J91X...ZZZx1v-VB8byDY

Passenger side axle U-Joint
https://drive.google.com/uc?id=17BDP...zvP7RGJlsfRvPv

Here's what it sounds like:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lG...lqQu9NpE0g41C7

The strange thing is that the sound only happens when I have it in 4WD and am going up and down minor inclines with some steering thrown in.

Anyways, I have a trip planned to Silver Lake sand dunes next week, tomorrow I leave for another trip with the family to the Toledo Zoo and African Safari where we're renting a vehicle, and I was going to drop JK off at the shop and leave them a note of what to repair. When I get back, I will be doing the TF ball joint replacements myself and don't feel like messing around with U-Joints. Axle U-Joints seem like what is bad here? But why only in 4WD?:thinking:

Because they only have a stress load on them in 4WD. In 2WD they just kinda hang out and keep the hub connected to the axle, but in 4WD they are applying force to the hub from the axle.

The u-joints aren't too bad on the jeep, the catch is to make sure when you reinstall the axle shaft (applies to your TF bj's too) that you're careful in your insertion. I removed and installed my shafts numerous times before I finally tore (more likely actually wore out) the inner axle seal.

I prefer doing the u-joints myself because of the rust accumulation on the shaft, I think you'd be surprised. I cleaned mine up and did the full rust converter and paint on them, then proceeded with the other work. They won't rust through but why allow rust to live at all?

I look at it like this......you have to replace BJs, so those axle shafts gonna be out anyhow. Replace the u-joints cuz that's a good time to do it, you have a lot of years and miles on em anyhow, and good overall maintenance.....even if for some reason that didn't end up being the issue. Like Karl said, take the time to clean up in the saddle cuz that is an area you can't easily access. There are tons of vids on youtube on how to replace a u-joint, and it's something you can easily do at home there, especially since you'll have the shafts out anyhow.

x2 on Karls caution of inserting the axle shafts again. Grease the splines and a nice steady hand. It's no fun to button everything back up, and then start to see those tell-tale drips of gear oil on the garage floor or driveway a few days/weeks later indicating a leaky axle seal.

I agree with Karl and resharp and will add if this is the first time you're pulling the axle shafts, be conscious of the plastic tab that should be present on the axle shaft. Sometimes they stay stuck in the axle tube and then when you re-insert the axle shaft, that dang thing jams you up.

That harbor freight press in a vice with an impact gun makes quick work of the u-joints.

Thanks for the tips. I dropped it off at the shop to have them do the U-joints. I just don't have enough time right now where this is one item that has to get done prior to the dune trip. Plus if there's any other problems the shop will call me to authorize and fix as well while I'm currently on the road. I'll have about 1 day to do the ball joints once I get back and then it's on the road again.