Death Wobble happened to me tonight
03-14-2019, 08:01 AM
#21
Super Moderator
Given that info, you have something loose... you need to check the torque on everything again.... that's likely the reason for the shimmy and the DW.
03-14-2019, 08:04 AM
#22
JK Jedi
Others might have a differing opinion, but I would tell you that 1 bad DL joint isn't going to cause a wobble. It will definitely cause some bumpsteer, and THAT could trigger a wobble, but if you are having a wobble develop, there is more going on there. You are certain that your TB bolts are torqued to 125 ft lbs? Those bolts being under torqued are the most common issue. Others right there at the top of the list are wallowed out frame-side TB bracket holes, bad TB joints, and bad ball joints. I know you said your BJs tested ok, and that you made sure everything was torqued, but I've had a bad DL joint, and can say that separately, that isn't gonna cause a big wobble. I mean, not being there, I can't say with 100% certainty, but I am willing to be dollars to donuts there's more going on.
The fact that you had a wobble previously complicates things a bit, cuz that wobble probably took it's toll on a few things. I would focus on those TB bolts and really assess the BJs again. I presume you jacked up the front axle and used a shovel or something with leverage under the tire like Planman. For the TB, it is helpful to observe turning the wheel with both engine off and with engine on. Many times, engine off is better as you can spot the movement in the joint easier.
The fact that you had a wobble previously complicates things a bit, cuz that wobble probably took it's toll on a few things. I would focus on those TB bolts and really assess the BJs again. I presume you jacked up the front axle and used a shovel or something with leverage under the tire like Planman. For the TB, it is helpful to observe turning the wheel with both engine off and with engine on. Many times, engine off is better as you can spot the movement in the joint easier.
03-14-2019, 08:25 AM
#23
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info. I had DW one time right after the lift was installed so I took it to my alignment guy and asked him to check everything while he was under there to make sure it was torqued. He said that he torqued the TB a little more but everything else seemed OK. It did try to go into a DW again right after a installed the drop brackets but I was going slow and was prepared for it so it didn't shake much at all. I think I am just going to take it back to him and see what he can find. Maybe that first DW wallowed out the TB bracket holes.
03-15-2019, 02:32 PM
#24
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
So can DW be caused by hitting a pothole/bump/etc with either front tire?? I've noticed that mine only seems to happen when I hit something with the passenger side tire.
Last edited by JoyMarie; 03-15-2019 at 02:45 PM.
03-15-2019, 03:01 PM
#25
JK Jedi
DW is caused by bad joints and loose bolts. DW can be TRIGGERED by many things, such as an out of balance wheel, hitting a bump/pothole, going over an uneven road or whatnot. What happens is something puts a shock/jolt in the steering system (think of a pebble hitting calm pond water). then, that shock moves throughout the system to a different component. if it finds a "weak link", that then sends reverberations back the other way (think original ripple hitting something and then sending a ripple back the other way towards other oncoming ripples), and the results is uncontrolled wobble. That is just a very basic way to think about it. If it's happening more when the driver's side tire hits something, I'd look closely at the driver's side BJ as well.
If you can, maybe take some short video clips of you testing these components and post them to youtube. We can easily chime in if the play you're seeing is normal or not.
I'd tell you that 9.9 times out of 10, you are better off figuring out these diagnosis procedures than just taking it to a shop to "fix". There's not a whole lot in our steering systems, and the knowledge you gain along the way will pay dividends down the road.
If you can, maybe take some short video clips of you testing these components and post them to youtube. We can easily chime in if the play you're seeing is normal or not.
I'd tell you that 9.9 times out of 10, you are better off figuring out these diagnosis procedures than just taking it to a shop to "fix". There's not a whole lot in our steering systems, and the knowledge you gain along the way will pay dividends down the road.
03-15-2019, 03:44 PM
#26
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
DW is caused by bad joints and loose bolts. DW can be TRIGGERED by many things, such as an out of balance wheel, hitting a bump/pothole, going over an uneven road or whatnot. What happens is something puts a shock/jolt in the steering system (think of a pebble hitting calm pond water). then, that shock moves throughout the system to a different component. if it finds a "weak link", that then sends reverberations back the other way (think original ripple hitting something and then sending a ripple back the other way towards other oncoming ripples), and the results is uncontrolled wobble. That is just a very basic way to think about it. If it's happening more when the driver's side tire hits something, I'd look closely at the driver's side BJ as well.
If you can, maybe take some short video clips of you testing these components and post them to youtube. We can easily chime in if the play you're seeing is normal or not.
I'd tell you that 9.9 times out of 10, you are better off figuring out these diagnosis procedures than just taking it to a shop to "fix". There's not a whole lot in our steering systems, and the knowledge you gain along the way will pay dividends down the road.
If you can, maybe take some short video clips of you testing these components and post them to youtube. We can easily chime in if the play you're seeing is normal or not.
I'd tell you that 9.9 times out of 10, you are better off figuring out these diagnosis procedures than just taking it to a shop to "fix". There's not a whole lot in our steering systems, and the knowledge you gain along the way will pay dividends down the road.
03-17-2019, 09:21 AM
#27
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
So I got underneath the jeep yesterday and checked everything. I took the track bar off and inspected it. I actually bought new grade 8 bolts to replace the factory ones but ended up getting ones that were too long, i was just guessing since I didn't know for sure. I'll have to exchange them when I get time then I'll swap them out. I checked everything else and made sure it was all torqued to spec. My question is....how do I know if the bushings on the TB are bad? I've never delt with them before. In my personal opinion I think the frame mount side looked a little rough. There are no signs of wallowing though so that was a relief. I'm thinking I might just go ahead and order a new beefier adjustable TB. I reinstalled the factory one for now and torqued it to 125 ft lbs and let me just say that 125 ft lbs is a lot for a 150lb 5ft 10" female to pull!! My arms were sore all night. Lol.
03-17-2019, 12:11 PM
#28
JK Junkie
The test for the clevite bushings in the trackbar is to watch them while turning the steering wheel (engine on) about 1/2 turn each way. With good bushings the trackbar will barely move relative to the mounts (~1/32") as the rubber in the bushings compress from steering load at a standstill.
Repetitious safety note, if you have someone move the steering wheel back and forth to check for movement/play be careful of getting in a pinch point, or over-heating the power steering fluid (which can blow a power steering hose and cause injury).
Forget the 9/16 bolts, it's a long running faux-fix. It's the clamping force, not the clearance of the bolt in the bushing that holds it. The diameter of the bolt is irrelevant until the bushing actually slips and moves in the mount -- And once the bushing starts moving the advantage of a few thousandth's less clearance is quickly used up as the metal wears away.
Repetitious safety note, if you have someone move the steering wheel back and forth to check for movement/play be careful of getting in a pinch point, or over-heating the power steering fluid (which can blow a power steering hose and cause injury).
Forget the 9/16 bolts, it's a long running faux-fix. It's the clamping force, not the clearance of the bolt in the bushing that holds it. The diameter of the bolt is irrelevant until the bushing actually slips and moves in the mount -- And once the bushing starts moving the advantage of a few thousandth's less clearance is quickly used up as the metal wears away.
It's the clamping force of the faces of the steel inner bushing that the bolt goes through, against the inner faces of the bracket that holds it from moving. These faces should be clean, free of nicks and any deformation/wear caused by the steel inner bushing moving in the bracket. A minute with a flat file will usually do the trick. It's much more important that the faces mate well then the bolt having some radial play in the hole. The radial play of the bolt hole is like a backup restraint after the clamping force against the faces fails to hold. If the faces don't mate correctly when tightened, the bushing will move under load, wearing and/or deforming metal, and making it progressively looser in a vicious cycle.
Last edited by Mr.T; 03-17-2019 at 12:14 PM.
03-17-2019, 01:24 PM
#29
JK Newbie
Thread Starter
Here are a couple videos that I took of the frame side or the TB. What do y'all think? The video was taken after I torqued the bolts to 125 ft lbs.
Last edited by JoyMarie; 03-17-2019 at 01:35 PM.
