locked front options
JK Jedi Master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,463
Likes: 165
From: Austin <--> Colorado Springs
I have read many of your post and KNOW you say to not "waste" money on the 30 but YOU did not read his post. He said the 2.5 coil lift is on his wish list....dude, ain't got 6Gs to "waste" on a new front-end. And he CANNOT get gears and ARB for $1,500, the ARB/install alone will cost that. Gears are another $1K = $2.5K YOU missed the point of HIS thread. He wanted more capibility and YOUR point was to "upgrade" the whole da*n front-end.
Yes, he wanted a selectable but hey.... we are all not rich and can dump +$20K into a jeep. The guy wants to have fun and he should be able to without guys expecting someone to spend a fortune just to drive a GD jeep off-road. It is nice to have toys but enough of the elitist BULLSHIT.
Yes, he wanted a selectable but hey.... we are all not rich and can dump +$20K into a jeep. The guy wants to have fun and he should be able to without guys expecting someone to spend a fortune just to drive a GD jeep off-road. It is nice to have toys but enough of the elitist BULLSHIT.
So I was leaning towards a ProRock44, with 4.88 gears and a electric locker.
And the last I checked, an arb is around 850, gears and install for a single axle is 500-600, maybe a bit more depending on location. So 1500 shouldn't be all that far off.
And no, I am not 'expecting' him or anyone else to run out and drop 5-6k on a new axle. But when someone ASKS about a PR, I am not going to be like you and blow smoke up their ass and say they will have absolutely no issues with the stock axle. There are far too many posts indicating otherwise. If someone is on a budget, I have and do recommend upgrading the stock axle as far as the budget allows. But again, in his case, he ASKED about a PR.
Sponsoring Manufacturer
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,136
Likes: 4
From: Huntington Beach, CA
Yes, I did read that.
Let me say it like this,
I hear what you are saying and I agree to, C gussett's should be done imo to the stock front axles.. 30 and 44 respectively. the 44's are bending as well, so i don't see why people talk like the D30 is that much worse then the stock D44, especially when you are running 33's...
Many people have run this axle D30 on here for a long time. So it really does work for some people. and as you know we are seeing 35's as the marginal setup at best.. although imo I wouldn't, and even a few are running 37's..
I know one personally and it's held up for a year now of moderate wheelin', but he is a well seasoned off road driver. That helps alot for sure.
My thought's we'll hear more breakage from D30's because there are more out there in service, then the D44 fronts.
The JK weight is heavier too, not a good thing for off roading, but you have a HPD30 which is stronger at the third member then the TJ's had, so I still think this axle is acceptable on 33's for most people on the trails.
I know you wouldn't spend a dime on the 30, but with 33's tires...? Too many people are using this set up with success. imo, you don't have to spend 5K on a new front axle to go wheel moderately with this set up. that's all I'm saying.
Totally agree about if you do upgrade the axle get the PR..
Let me say it like this,
I hear what you are saying and I agree to, C gussett's should be done imo to the stock front axles.. 30 and 44 respectively. the 44's are bending as well, so i don't see why people talk like the D30 is that much worse then the stock D44, especially when you are running 33's...
Many people have run this axle D30 on here for a long time. So it really does work for some people. and as you know we are seeing 35's as the marginal setup at best.. although imo I wouldn't, and even a few are running 37's..
I know one personally and it's held up for a year now of moderate wheelin', but he is a well seasoned off road driver. That helps alot for sure.My thought's we'll hear more breakage from D30's because there are more out there in service, then the D44 fronts.
The JK weight is heavier too, not a good thing for off roading, but you have a HPD30 which is stronger at the third member then the TJ's had, so I still think this axle is acceptable on 33's for most people on the trails.
I know you wouldn't spend a dime on the 30, but with 33's tires...? Too many people are using this set up with success. imo, you don't have to spend 5K on a new front axle to go wheel moderately with this set up. that's all I'm saying.
Totally agree about if you do upgrade the axle get the PR..
Many users end up with a ton of cash in a front end they really don't want. They end up making it work because they don't want to lose all the investment they have in the axle. Most don't stop after just making one or two cheap mods.
As you said, the 30 and 44 share a lot of parts. The difference, obviously, is that a 44 has a much stronger ring and pinion and an electric locker. It much easier to understand a guy making mods to a 44 front because the R&P is proven and if you decide later you want to upgrade your housing, most mods can slide right over. Yes, you'll lose the upgrades you've made to brackets, gussets, sleeves and labor, but you won't be losing the major expense of gears and locker.
I certainly understand budget issues. Not everyone can step up and buy everything at once. But unfortunately, that is the most cost effecient way to do it. No missteps, no wasted parts that you end up replacing and no down time on the trail.
JK Super Freak
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 1
From: Olean NY
I agree with the above logic 100% but in my case, it is either a beefed up 30 or nothing. I simply cannot get the cash together to get a prorock right now and if I keep wheeling my 30 the way I have been without doing some mods, it is going to break for sure. Once I have the jeep paid off in 4 years, I will take my payment amount, set it aside until I can afford the prorock. Until then I am keeping my fingers crossed that my soon to be beefed up 30 will last the 4 years unlocked.
JK Freak
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 892
Likes: 0
From: Euless, TX
After I install my OR FAB front bumper and winch this weekend.(finally above 30 degrees) I am fianally down to doing all the drivetrain and have emailed Dan Seldon at Dynatrac to get the Pro 44 with a Trutrac. He rocks! not sure if that is our rep)
I run 35's and plan to have the Jeep ready for 37's at next tire change. I figure that the D30 is just like any other part on a Jeep, you treat it right, chances are it will last! Always exceptions to the rule. WOL ran Nemo with big 37 Toyo's for a while on the D30 and it held and he is a nut!
I run 35's and plan to have the Jeep ready for 37's at next tire change. I figure that the D30 is just like any other part on a Jeep, you treat it right, chances are it will last! Always exceptions to the rule. WOL ran Nemo with big 37 Toyo's for a while on the D30 and it held and he is a nut!
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 307
Likes: 1
From: Portland, ME
locked front options
I've decided a selectable locked front end is a necessity in my style of wheeling, with a mostly stock daily driver. '09 X, 2 door, 3.21 gears, 6 speed manual. I got Super Swamper SX 32x11.50-15 for off road, and mostly ride on the factory street tread tires as my daily driver. No lift yet, but a 2.5 coil is on the wish list. Off road terrain consists of mid-west trails, ravines, uneven hill climbs, creek crossings, and sloppy sticky river bottom mud.
The X is still fairly capable, but my confidence in the vehicle is low at best. I wheel with a couple of FJ Cruiser buddies and the thought is if I can make it they can too. For once I want to get through where they can't. They main advantage they have is (i think) their rear selectable locker.
A couple of questions:
1. Would this mod increase my 4x4 enjoyment?
I'm guessing yes, but wasn't sure if I was skipping to far ahead in the mod order...
I've also read that a built D30 is "well let's just say it ain't a D44". So I was leaning towards a ProRock44, with 4.88 gears and a electric locker. Since I have the X I assume I can not reuse anything.
2. What other parts and pieces will need to be purchased to complete the ProRock44? Brake calipers, rotors, hubs, bearings, etc.?
Know since I am changing the gear ratio in my front I will need to do the same for the rear. I don't want to spend a lot on the rear, but also don't want to redo work later.
3. Is all i need for the rear is the gears (ring and pinion)? will my factory TruTrac (or what ever it's called) still be used?
4. And finally my last question, what will all this cost? Budgetary numbers. Parts and Labor. I realize labor will fluctuate between area, but budgetary numbers at this point will do.
Thanks and cheers
I've decided a selectable locked front end is a necessity in my style of wheeling, with a mostly stock daily driver. '09 X, 2 door, 3.21 gears, 6 speed manual. I got Super Swamper SX 32x11.50-15 for off road, and mostly ride on the factory street tread tires as my daily driver. No lift yet, but a 2.5 coil is on the wish list. Off road terrain consists of mid-west trails, ravines, uneven hill climbs, creek crossings, and sloppy sticky river bottom mud.
The X is still fairly capable, but my confidence in the vehicle is low at best. I wheel with a couple of FJ Cruiser buddies and the thought is if I can make it they can too. For once I want to get through where they can't. They main advantage they have is (i think) their rear selectable locker.
A couple of questions:
1. Would this mod increase my 4x4 enjoyment?
I'm guessing yes, but wasn't sure if I was skipping to far ahead in the mod order...
I've also read that a built D30 is "well let's just say it ain't a D44". So I was leaning towards a ProRock44, with 4.88 gears and a electric locker. Since I have the X I assume I can not reuse anything.
2. What other parts and pieces will need to be purchased to complete the ProRock44? Brake calipers, rotors, hubs, bearings, etc.?
Know since I am changing the gear ratio in my front I will need to do the same for the rear. I don't want to spend a lot on the rear, but also don't want to redo work later.
3. Is all i need for the rear is the gears (ring and pinion)? will my factory TruTrac (or what ever it's called) still be used?
4. And finally my last question, what will all this cost? Budgetary numbers. Parts and Labor. I realize labor will fluctuate between area, but budgetary numbers at this point will do.
Thanks and cheers
Thread Starter
JK Newbie
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Iowa
Review and more questions
Thank you all for the great reply's. Very informative. But it has led me to some more questions.
Just so I got this right. I can buy an Aussie for around $300 and have a kinda locked front end. (It "basically" works off of tire spin and resistance, correct?) Will work good for hill climbs and mud, but not so good when only two wheels are touching the ground. How does it perform against a log in the road? Do you still have to push / bounce the tire up and over?
No new gears needed works with the 3.21s?
I might go this route...
I plan on owning the Jeep for many many years. Bought it new, treat it like a baby. I've been on trails, ravines, and the such a half dozen times, a couple dozen trips down mud roads, and one Rocky Mountain adventure. Spends most its miles on the 20 mile commute twice a day. And nor do I have the funds to drop a butt load of cash on mods today (or buy replacement parts). What I needed to know was the "extra" parts and budgetary cost I would have to buy for a D30 to PR44 swap. By reading the forums I figure out (I think) that a Rubicon front end swap with a PR44 is straight, no "extra" parts needed.
So it looks like the price on a D30 conversion is subject to options.
parts only...
PR44 housing ~ $2000
Gears ~ $ 250 (is this correct?)
Locker ~ $1000
inner shafts ~ $ ??
will I need a new carrier?
some type of "overhaul" kit I would assume ~ $150
Also need Gears rear ~ $ 250 (is this correct?)
Got's to be more I'm missing. I don't want get prices on "upgraded parts" at this point, just parts needed.
$4000 plus or minus the inner shafts???
Thanks all
I would just get an aussie locker (non selectable) for now in the front, and wheel the D30 till it hurts.. then upgrade.. Cheapest bang for the buck in getting traction offroad..
Just sayin' a quick Aussie locker install would give you the same traction offroad as the way more expensive units out there. If you are spending "more" money on gears then it kind of deafeats the purpose of the aussie install.
Just sayin' a quick Aussie locker install would give you the same traction offroad as the way more expensive units out there. If you are spending "more" money on gears then it kind of deafeats the purpose of the aussie install.
No new gears needed works with the 3.21s?
I might go this route...
Quote Originally Posted by toymaster
I have read many of your post and KNOW you say to not "waste" money on the 30 but YOU did not read his post. He said the 2.5 coil lift is on his wishlist....dude, ain't got 6Gs to "waste" on a new front-end. And he CANNOT get gears and ARB for $1,500, the ARB/install alone will cost that. Gears are another $1K = $2.5K YOU missed the point of HIS thread. He wanted more capibility and YOUR point was to "upgrade" the whole da*n front-end.
Yes, he wanted a selectable but hey.... we are all not rich and can dump +$20K into a jeep. The guy wants to have fun and he should be able to without guys expecting someone to spend a fortune just to drive a GD jeep off-road. It is nice to have toys but enough of the elitist BULLSHIT.
Posted by nthinuf
I have read many of your post and KNOW you say to not "waste" money on the 30 but YOU did not read his post. He said the 2.5 coil lift is on his wishlist....dude, ain't got 6Gs to "waste" on a new front-end. And he CANNOT get gears and ARB for $1,500, the ARB/install alone will cost that. Gears are another $1K = $2.5K YOU missed the point of HIS thread. He wanted more capibility and YOUR point was to "upgrade" the whole da*n front-end.
Yes, he wanted a selectable but hey.... we are all not rich and can dump +$20K into a jeep. The guy wants to have fun and he should be able to without guys expecting someone to spend a fortune just to drive a GD jeep off-road. It is nice to have toys but enough of the elitist BULLSHIT.
Posted by nthinuf
His quote, not mine:
So it is elitist to answer the questions he asked? He didn't ask about cheap lunchboxes. He didn't ask about the best way to upgrade his current axle. He has apparently done enough research to be considering a PR.
And the last I checked, an arb is around 850, gears and install for a single axle is 500-600, maybe a bit more depending on location. So 1500 shouldn't be all that far off.
And no, I am not 'expecting' him or anyone else to run out and drop 5-6k on a new axle. But when someone ASKS about a PR, I am not going to be like you and blow smoke up their ass and say they will have absolutely no issues with the stock axle. There are far too many posts indicating otherwise. If someone is on a budget, I have and do recommend upgrading the stock axle as far as the budget allows. But again, in his case, he ASKED about a PR.
So I was leaning towards a ProRock44, with 4.88 gears and a electric locker.
And the last I checked, an arb is around 850, gears and install for a single axle is 500-600, maybe a bit more depending on location. So 1500 shouldn't be all that far off.
And no, I am not 'expecting' him or anyone else to run out and drop 5-6k on a new axle. But when someone ASKS about a PR, I am not going to be like you and blow smoke up their ass and say they will have absolutely no issues with the stock axle. There are far too many posts indicating otherwise. If someone is on a budget, I have and do recommend upgrading the stock axle as far as the budget allows. But again, in his case, he ASKED about a PR.
I plan on owning the Jeep for many many years. Bought it new, treat it like a baby. I've been on trails, ravines, and the such a half dozen times, a couple dozen trips down mud roads, and one Rocky Mountain adventure. Spends most its miles on the 20 mile commute twice a day. And nor do I have the funds to drop a butt load of cash on mods today (or buy replacement parts). What I needed to know was the "extra" parts and budgetary cost I would have to buy for a D30 to PR44 swap. By reading the forums I figure out (I think) that a Rubicon front end swap with a PR44 is straight, no "extra" parts needed.
So it looks like the price on a D30 conversion is subject to options.
parts only...
PR44 housing ~ $2000
Gears ~ $ 250 (is this correct?)
Locker ~ $1000
inner shafts ~ $ ??
will I need a new carrier?
some type of "overhaul" kit I would assume ~ $150
Also need Gears rear ~ $ 250 (is this correct?)
Got's to be more I'm missing. I don't want get prices on "upgraded parts" at this point, just parts needed.
$4000 plus or minus the inner shafts???
Thanks all
JK Jedi Master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,463
Likes: 165
From: Austin <--> Colorado Springs
$4200ish, plus tax and shipping for the PR. It will come from Dynatrac with the gears/locker/inner alloy shafts and factory balljoints. You will re-use the stock outer shafts, brakes, knuckles from your current d30. So the internals are set up already, all you have to do is swap your outers on and bolt it up.
If you choose to build it yourself, use your parts list, with the exception of the carrier. The locker 'is' the carrier. Also, that price is with an arb/detroit, you can order it without a locker and deduct the price, or with a TruTrac, or whatever other traction device you want.
If you choose to build your d30 and go with a lunchbox, it installs 'inside' your stock carrier. If you choose an arb or elocker or trutrac, these are full case lockers, and will replace the stock carrier. These are also much stronger than the factory case.
My personal opinion would be to run a truetrac in a d30. (last i checked, the d30 TT was $375) It performs great in the snow, unlike a full locker, and is less harsh on the axle than a full locker. The downside would be if you spend a lot of time in the rocks with tires in the air. In this case, a full locker would be the better option, but you are back to the auto vs selectable locker up front on snow/ice.
If you choose to build it yourself, use your parts list, with the exception of the carrier. The locker 'is' the carrier. Also, that price is with an arb/detroit, you can order it without a locker and deduct the price, or with a TruTrac, or whatever other traction device you want.
If you choose to build your d30 and go with a lunchbox, it installs 'inside' your stock carrier. If you choose an arb or elocker or trutrac, these are full case lockers, and will replace the stock carrier. These are also much stronger than the factory case.
My personal opinion would be to run a truetrac in a d30. (last i checked, the d30 TT was $375) It performs great in the snow, unlike a full locker, and is less harsh on the axle than a full locker. The downside would be if you spend a lot of time in the rocks with tires in the air. In this case, a full locker would be the better option, but you are back to the auto vs selectable locker up front on snow/ice.
Last edited by nthinuf; Feb 10, 2011 at 05:52 PM.
JK Jedi Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 15,665
Likes: 4
From: Hammond Louisiana
I run a lockright in my d-30 on 37's, ran it on 35's too. C-gussets , stock axles. Only thing I've replaced is the u-joints. I wheel moderately.
I haven't blown anything yet wheelin. Take it for what it's worth, believe what you want.
I haven't blown anything yet wheelin. Take it for what it's worth, believe what you want.