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Please help with choosing lockers for my needs...

 
Old 02-05-2019, 01:01 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by espi View Post
I have Truetracs front and rear on a 13 JKU and don't notice any drag. I opted for them over lockers because I dont usually have tires off the ground. They have worked great in snow, on the beach and in NJ sugar sand. The best part is the rear is always there and I can go further in 2wd and dont have to worry about locking an axle.

Also with BLD and traction control the tires off the ground issue with the LSD are mostly negated. You can always apply a tiny bit of brake pressure to transfer the torque back to the tire on the ground.
Thanks! Great info!
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:35 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
It's really not a to each their own. I feel we're really saying the same thing but I'm taking it one further step backwards for everything you just described for the reasons you don't want to invest in a traction device for the D30. Why invest the $ into a regear of the D30? A regear just for the front will run you $700+. So what you just described for the reasons of not adding a locker or Detroit TT to the D30 no longer applies for the regear expenses and just the traction device? Why not put that $700+ for the regear towards the axle upgrade which already includes the gears you want just like you described?

When I've been weighing things out there's really 2 options to consider in the decision making process and other options just seem like foolish reasoning and puts you on the path of the non ideology long-term path as you describe.

Option 1. Front HD Axle replacement. More costly but gets you what you really want and will likely cost less in the long run. It will give you the gear size you want without paying for the actual regear expense on the D30.

Option 2. Regear D30. To me if you made the decision you're going to invest in the regear expenses on the D30 and justified going that route over replacing the D30 axle, then you might as well include the expense of adding a traction device with that regear so you actually gain something for that $ you decided to invest. Why make a half assed investment decision on the D30? It seems like a pinch a penny and waste a dollar decision approach.
Exactly. If you're going to be in there messing with a D30, may as well add some benefit, like a locker or LSD, at least something beyond an open diff.

I had a Truetrac in a '73 Blazer I had in high school and it left a sharp pain in my wallet and a bad taste in my mouth. Granted, this was more than a few years ago, but I went from 30's to 33's and 3.73's to 4.10's with a D44 up front, which I threw a Detroit Locker in, and a 12 bolt in the rear, which I added the True Trac to because there weren't that many options for limited slip as I was told. I ran it for a few months and the thing blew itself up on the road. They ended up warrantying the part after their inspection, but I was on the hook for the labor. I had enough and went back to the open carrier.

I'm sure their metallurgical processes have improved since I had mine, but I still see a bunch of moving parts that are prone to let go at what will likely be the most inopportune moment. It's the "automatic" portion of this design that make me nervous.

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Old 02-06-2019, 12:36 PM
  #23  
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As I originally said, I'm against any money invested in a D30:

Originally Posted by BoraBora View Post
My issue isn't with the traction device, but rather the $ being put into a D30.
However, people want to maintain drivability while saving for real axles. The need for gears is too subjective, and on 33's he's realistically okay on that D30. With that $1000-1400 spent re-gearing those axles, he can probably recoup ~$1000 when selling stock geared axles. Maybe more depending on the people in his area. Would I do it? Hell no.

I have always, and will always maintain the position of:
  1. Don't put any money into a D30
  2. Save for a real axle
That extra $ for a traction device really isn't going to add any real value to the average Craigslister looking for a pull-off D30. The gears will though, assuming he doesn't price the axles unrealistically high.

Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
A regear just for the front will run you $700+. So what you just described for the reasons of not adding a locker or Detroit TT to the D30 no longer applies for the regear expenses? Why not put that $700+ for the regear towards the axle upgrade which already includes the gears you want just like you described?
That's what I said:

Originally Posted by BoraBora View Post
To each their own, but that $4-600 additional for an LSD could be set aside for future axle savings, or used towards a nice selectable for the rear. You never recoup your initial investment, so if he plans on ever upgrading to a bigger axle (44, 60, etc.), he'll wish he hadn't bothered. My issue isn't with the traction device, but rather the $ being put into a D30.
Based off my original response, you can assume I'm against the $ for re-gearing it. You'll be out of less money in the long run. We have to assume he is going to re-gear if he wants to, none of us can stop him. Shops near me run $500 an axle now (parts and labor included).

Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
It's really not a to each their own.
This is actually the archetypal situation in which there is no perfect answer.

I strongly disagree with any $ thrown at a D30, others clearly don't think so. I strongly disagree with locking a D30, others disagree. I think Eaton e-lockers are trash compared to air lockers, others disagree. I think if he's going to be running 33's for the next 2-5 years and is light on the wheeling, the $1000-1400 re-gearing will make the Jeep more fun to drive, take some stress off the clutch/trans, and increase capability on the trail. Short term, with plans of upgrading the front axle within 1-2 years? Absolutely not, live with the stock gears. Lastly, I really don't see why you wouldn't cough up the last $300 for a selectable locker, seeing as you seem to regard $700 as pocket change.

Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
Option 2. Regear D30. To me if you made the decision you're going to invest in the regear expenses on the D30 and justified going that route over replacing the D30 axle, then you might as well include the expense of adding a traction device with that regear so you actually gain something for that $ you decided to invest. Why make a half assed investment decision on the D30? It seems like a pinch a penny and waste a dollar decision approach.
I don't agree with this. Just because you re-geared your axles for drivability doesn't mean you should consider yourself married to that D30/those axles. Your rationale: if I blew my diet today, I might as well treat myself to a pizza. And ice cream. And cake because why not at this point right? Geared stock axles go for $1000 all day here, and they won't last 2 weeks. The built D30's (traction, truss, gussets, shafts) are plentiful, but they also don't sell because the sellers want $17-1900 for a built D30 (trying to recoup some of their "investment").

Last edited by BoraBora; 02-06-2019 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:59 AM
  #24  
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I don't believe re-geared stock open diff axles go for $1K like you're saying. Sounds like a fish story to me. I just had that exact same discussion on another forum and that was also everyone elses consensus opinion as well. Who wants a geared stock axle where that gearing has to meet the person's buying tire size mod plans and who would pay $1000 for a stock re-geared axle when it would cost them $500 in your area as you stated to have their own stock axle re-geared? You really have people in your area saying to themselves, "I'm going to pay $1000 for that D30 re-geared axle and spend the time effort to swap axles, when I could go to a local shop and have everything done for me for $500 and I will have brand new gears?" Something in the story you're trying to tell really doesn't add up. Selling a stock geared axle at least fits a larger amount of people's needs if someone is looking for a replacement axle.

Like I said, seems silly to me if you're going to re-gear a D30 to not add a traction device along with it if someone has made that commitment.

Last edited by Rednroll; 02-07-2019 at 03:51 AM.
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:11 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
I don't believe re-geared stock open diff axles go for $1K like you're saying. Sounds like a fish story to me. I just had that exact same discussion on another forum and that was also everyone elses consensus opinion as well. Who wants a geared stock axle where that gearing has to meet the person's buying tire size mod plans and who would pay $1000 for a stock re-geared axle when it would cost them $500 in your area as you stated to have their own stock axle re-geared? You really have people in your area saying to themselves, "I'm going to pay $1000 for that D30 re-geared axle and spend the time effort to swap axles, when I could go to a local shop and have everything done for me for $500 and I will have brand new gears?" Something in the story you're trying to tell really doesn't add up. Selling a stock geared axle at least fits a larger amount of people's needs if someone is looking for a replacement axle.

Like I said, seems silly to me if you're going to re-gear a D30 to not add a traction device along with it if someone has made that commitment.
$1000 for 1 stock axle? I said axleS. The pair. They go for that all day long here (geared). Not sure why you think Iíd be blowing smoke, you also have C-list and 10 fingers. Itís early in the morning, Iím assuming you just skimmed my post.

For the average Northern Virginia/DMV dad/yuppie who wants to run fire roads... yes, the geared PAIR (D30 and D44 rear) do sell for that here. Prices are different everywhere. Thatís the reality here though. Someone offered me $4500 for my built 44ís. Thereís still plenty of built D30ís that nobody is buying. I do not count gears as ďbuilt.Ē

Last edited by BoraBora; 02-07-2019 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:36 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
Like I said, seems silly to me if you're going to re-gear a D30 to not add a traction device along with it if someone has made that commitment.
Throwing any money at a D30 seems silly to most of us as well as they just don't live, even with axle stiffeners, c gussets, trusses, and whatever other crap you want to try and weld on them. Off the pavement they're a time bomb and no amount of exterior mods will prevent the inevitable.

I'll keep my 60's and run on down the trail.


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Old 02-07-2019, 05:41 AM
  #27  
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Here's a D30 out of a buddy's Jeep. He's on 37's and this busted out in the middle of nowhere on a trail run. He wanted very badly to rebuild the 30 but ended up coming to his senses and put an aftermarket 44 on, which I don't know if it will live based on his tires and how he runs, but it certainly has a better shot at life than the 30 would have.



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Old 02-07-2019, 08:13 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by BoraBora View Post
$1000 for 1 stock axle? I said axleS. The pair. They go for that all day long here (geared). Not sure why you think Iíd be blowing smoke, you also have C-list and 10 fingers. Itís early in the morning, Iím assuming you just skimmed my post.

For the average Northern Virginia/DMV dad/yuppie who wants to run fire roads... yes, the geared PAIR (D30 and D44 rear) do sell for that here. Prices are different everywhere. Thatís the reality here though. Someone offered me $4500 for my built 44ís. Thereís still plenty of built D30ís that nobody is buying. I do not count gears as ďbuilt.Ē
Even at $1K for the pair it doesn't add up is all I'm saying. You seem to be getting upset so I'll just drop it and leave it at that.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:54 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
Even at $1K for the pair it doesn't add up is all I'm saying. You seem to be getting upset so I'll just drop it and leave it at that.
Not upset at all, just enjoy debating is all. I wish I still had screenshots of the multiple sets of "gucci" sport axles I've seen sell within a week or two for $1000. I'm sure they haggled a bit, but people will pay for bolt-on convenience and no real Jeep downtime. A few searches on Facebook, and you can find some interesting things.

Sale pending:




Perfect example of depreciation, even with that $1000 locker:



This one won't sell for anywhere near what he wants:



And some people are just straight up clueless:




The market is interesting. I've seen stock (with stock gears) axles sell for as cheap as $200 for the pair. Sometimes D30 pull offs are posted for free. Then sometimes, some clueless bastard comes along and buys a set of geared/built stock sport axles for way too many dollars.
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