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Rock Krawler 3.5 in flex lift with Bilstien shocks, how's the ride.

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Rock Krawler 3.5 in flex lift with Bilstien shocks, how's the ride.

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Old 10-12-2017, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jadmt View Post
I had that on my 14 jkur and it rode very well and flexed like crazy. I put a lot of highway miles on traveling to Moab every year, Colorado,the Rubicon trail and the dusy ershim. It traveled well at 80mph for hours on end and then did well on the trails. I did however have some issues with the rear coils sagging (2x) and elected to go with a different lift on my new rubicon. I did not use the RK control arms I used TF alpine control arms and they worked great.
For 2018 we will have 1.5/2.5/3.5/4.5/5.5 inch coils for JKU's and 2.5/3.5/4.5/5.5 for JK's so people will be able to achieve the stance they desire since stance is subjective. Vehicles lower as loads are applied, the amount they go down is based on how the coils are setup in the vehicle and their spring rate. That is not sag, just the nature of springs in general. We have not had any complaints in a very very long time regarding out triple rate coils ride quality and never in their off-road performance. We will keep the smooth ride they offer and allow customers to simply move by inch increments.

You will find a very small group of RK haters that travel the internet, especially on forums. That is the nature of the industry and enthusiast companies/brands. Each and every brand has them. For the most part, the haters are not even up to speed where our product line is at this point nor would we ever view Wayoflife as an authority on RK since most there really are behind the times with regards to our product lines. After 11 years of JK, all companies have had failures in some things or another, but you will always see RK do our best to make the right decision regarding any situation. Most of the time we really try to do our best to educate the consumers to build a better jeeping community...

RK

Last edited by Rock Krawler Suspension; 10-12-2017 at 05:06 AM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by RiverCityOffroad View Post
It seems like this news might have snuck by a lot of folks, but Rock Krawler has been using their Pro Flex joints at the frame side in their systems since 2015. These joints are much closer in technology to Synergy DDM or Metal Cloak Duroflex than they are different from it.

Check out this video explaining the Pro Flex Joint.
]
Not even close to what synergy or metal cloak has in their joint design.

From RK's website:

NOTES!
How to service the joints:


The Rock Krawler Flex Joints are unique when it comes to service. We do not use or recommend grease! Grease attracts more dirt and debris then it is worth while doing more harm to the joint itself. We simply recommend removing the service screw, putting in a few drops of 3 and 1 oil and then replacing the service screw everytime you perform an oil change.

oil the joint every oil change, no thanks.

The videos on this page show the superior joint made by Metal Cloak.
Suspension Builders Parts.

Last edited by TheDirtman; 10-12-2017 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Rock Krawler Suspension View Post
For 2018 we will have 1.5/2.5/3.5/4.5/5.5 inch coils for JKU's and 2.5/3.5/4.5/5.5 for JK's so people will be able to achieve the stance they desire since stance is subjective. Vehicles lower as loads are applied, the amount they go down is based on how the coils are setup in the vehicle and their spring rate. That is not sag, just the nature of springs in general. We have not had any complaints in a very very long time regarding out triple rate coils ride quality and never in their off-road performance. We will keep the smooth ride they offer and allow customers to simply move by inch increments.

You will find a very small group of RK haters that travel the internet, especially on forums. That is the nature of the industry and enthusiast companies/brands. Each and every brand has them. For the most part, the haters are not even up to speed where our product line is at this point nor would we ever view Wayoflife as an authority on RK since most there really are behind the times with regards to our product lines. After 11 years of JK, all companies have had failures in some things or another, but you will always see RK do our best to make the right decision regarding any situation. Most of the time we really try to do our best to educate the consumers to build a better jeeping community...

RK
I am not a hater and if you read my posts I have loved RK and in fact I have bought and installed 3 lifts (1.5, 2.5 and 3.5) and sold many more to my brother and friends by my recommendation. Sag is when unloaded it just keeps getting lower and lower in the back so pretty soon you look like you are carrying a load of bricks even when empty . The first set of rear coils was replaced under warranty after a lengthy run around and blaming multiple things until finally I was given a measurement to take and lo and behold mine measured 2" under what that static measurement was supposed to be. New coils installed and it was back to where it was supposed to be. A year later the new rear coils started sagging down again and I decided to go another route. I loved the ride on and off road and said so in print numerous times on this and other forums, altho not wal as I was run off from that forum long ago for saying aev was a quality lift 5 or 6 years ago.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Rock Krawler Suspension View Post
We would recommend doing your research on what Triple Rate Coils are all about. They are far from a "gimmick".

The triple rate coils take on road and off-road performance to a new level. They provide you with a small dead zone where the coils stack on top of each other for longer travel, the have a nice soft ride zone and then a firm zone for hard cornering and minimize hard bottoming in off-road conditions. We are almost 100% positive we have the most coils in stock class rigs in off-road racing out there.

Shocks are another animal as well as tire construction and tire pressures. All of which will have an effect of ride quality.

The holsteins and current Fox offerings are slightly firm on road, but fun off-road. We are working with Fox currently to have some Fox specific valved shocks for our coils and Fox feels they are great coils.

For control arms, RCO informed you very well of the current products being offered. The newer style Pro Flex Joints use thermoelastomers and in the mid arms use a 70A durometer which is actually softer than that of OEM vulcanized rubber or any other product offerings out there currently on the market to provide a nice ride...

Good luck with your build.

RK
Why are you working with Fox when you make and offer shocks? Its kinda a head scratcher. Are you planning on dropping your shock offerings? It will be interesting on how Fox comes up with valve that can can perform well with a coil that has two different useable rates that have such small zones without a bypass.
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDirtman View Post
Not even close to what synergy or metal cloak has in their joint design. The videos on this page show the superior joint made by Metal Cloak.
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Thank you for your opinion on joints Dirtman.

Pros/Cons of all these joints will be done very soon from our in house staff showing you cross sections etc. We are calling this new class of joints (Semi-Spherical Joints). Which includes our Pro Flex Joint, The MC Joint, and the Dual Durometer Joint.

There are various sizes of all these joints out there now. We will be using the standard offerings for Jeep Lower Control Arms from all companies.

Here is a brief overview of some of the pluses and minuses that we have found and will be shown in the video. We will not tell you which one is the best as we feel that is up to each and every individual as to which ones will meet their needs.

The RK Pro Flex Joint for the Standard Jeep Mid Arm Lower Control Arms with Double Retainers

Pros

Bushing Material - 70A Durometer Thermoelastomer - Softest Tested
Volume of Bushing Material Per Joint - The Greatest Volume of the Three
5 Piece Design - Housing, Thermoelastomer Cups (Bearing Races), Ball, Double Retainers, Zirc Fittings
+/- 15 Degrees of Misalignment
Rotates Freely
Adjustable Pre-Load
Serviceable while in the vehicle
Rebuildable by simply replacing the Thermoelastomer Cups (Bearing Races) and or Ball if Need Be
Bearing surface is independent of Housing
Moisture, Inclimate Weather (Freezing Conditions), Corrosion are not detrimental to the joint.

Cons

Require Service or Maintenance Periodically
Rebuild Requires a Special Tool
Requires Bushing Distortion to Allow For Articulation



The Metal Cloak Duroflex Joint

Pros

Bushing Material - Tested 77A Durometer Poured Vulcanized Rubber to a Single Piece, Ball and Sleeve Design
Least Volume of Energy Absorbing Material of the 3 Designs
4 Piece Design - Housing, Duroflex Cartridge, Retaining Washers, Snap Rings
+/- 15 Degrees of Misalignment
Rotates Freely
Rebuildable by simply replacing the Duroflex Cartridge
Moisture, Inclimate Weather (Freezing Conditions) are not detrimental to the joint.
Maintenance Free for a Given Time Period

Cons

Not Serviceable In the Vehicle
The bearing surface is the inside of the housing itself. If rust or corrosion occurs in that area, the joint must be replaced and not rebuild.
Delamination of the Rubber to the Ball/Sleeve Can Occur
Requires Bushing Distortion to Allow For Articulation


Dual Durometer Joint

Pros

2 Bushing Materials - Tested 88A Durometer Poured Urethane (Active Vibration Isolation Material) and 94A Durometer Poured Urethane
2nd Largest Volume of Energy Absorbing Material of the 3 Designs including the Firm 94A Material
7 Piece Design - Housing and Internal Cartridge comprised of; Outer Housing, Soft Durometer Material, Inner Housing that holds the hard durometer material with a teflon fiber around a standard sleeve.
+/- 15 Degrees of Misalignment
Rebuildable by simply replacing the Dual Durometer Cartridge
Maintenance Free for its lifespan

Cons

Not Serviceable In the Vehicle
When exposed to moisture and freezing conditions delimitation can occur
Requires Bushing Distortion to Allow For Articulation


Please Keep in Mind the Pros and Cons are how we see them and may not be seen as such by everyone and it is truly the end user that gets to decide which one is best for him or her. The accuracy of our durometer testing device is +/- 2 points.

The video will be coming shortly and show digital dimensions for all the see.

RK

Last edited by Rock Krawler Suspension; 10-12-2017 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDirtman View Post
Why are you working with Fox when you make and offer shocks? Its kinda a head scratcher. Are you planning on dropping your shock offerings? It will be interesting on how Fox comes up with valve that can can perform well with a coil that has two different useable rates that have such small zones without a bypass.
Our shocks are not going anywhere. The 2.0 may or may not be getting bigger at some point in time. Fox is a great company as is King. We have worked with Fox dating back to 2004 with our various brands. Our 2.625 shocks/ coil overs and 3.25's are performing extremely well in all applications and the fact that they do not rust is a no brainer for us given our environment and many other people's environment.


RK
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jadmt View Post
I am not a hater and if you read my posts I have loved RK and in fact I have bought and installed 3 lifts (1.5, 2.5 and 3.5) and sold many more to my brother and friends by my recommendation. Sag is when unloaded it just keeps getting lower and lower in the back so pretty soon you look like you are carrying a load of bricks even when empty . The first set of rear coils was replaced under warranty after a lengthy run around and blaming multiple things until finally I was given a measurement to take and lo and behold mine measured 2" under what that static measurement was supposed to be. New coils installed and it was back to where it was supposed to be. A year later the new rear coils started sagging down again and I decided to go another route. I loved the ride on and off road and said so in print numerous times on this and other forums, altho not wal as I was run off from that forum long ago for saying aev was a quality lift 5 or 6 years ago.
Sorry, we did not classify you as a hater at all. That was made general to the post based on another's comment.


Rear coils in JK's will fatigue if the end codes are not satisfied. I.E., the coil has a slight bow. Over time that bow will get worse and worse if not corrected. The coil will not be able to hold load as well, thus it will go down. A very big cause of this is the extremely small pigtail that Jeep used on the bottom of the rear coil in the JK. It requires customers to be 100% perfect. Long travel coils like us and MC offer also make this even more critical since some of the coil is dead at ride height, thus eliminating some active coils to accept bow. This is a topic very rarely discussed or detailed on forums, but a very real one.

RK
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDirtman View Post
Not even close to what synergy or metal cloak has in their joint design.

From RK's website:

NOTES!
How to service the joints:


The Rock Krawler Flex Joints are unique when it comes to service. We do not use or recommend grease! Grease attracts more dirt and debris then it is worth while doing more harm to the joint itself. We simply recommend removing the service screw, putting in a few drops of 3 and 1 oil and then replacing the service screw everytime you perform an oil change.

oil the joint every oil change, no thanks.

The videos on this page show the superior joint made by Metal Cloak.
Suspension Builders Parts.
That is obviously not related to our Pro Krawler or Pro Flex Joints at all! Sorry of any confusion. If that is still linkable somehow we will get that corrected as soon as possible.

For all our new Pro Flex, Pro Krawler and New Sway Bar Links we recommend 000 Grade Grease.

RK
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:51 AM
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Yes, I have been aware of the pro flex joint for a while.

I understand the metal cloak and synergy joints are kicking your ass in the market and your marketing team is trying to tell people that your joint is like theirs but that is just not true other then using a simular compound for the bearing races. Your joint is more like a conventional Johnny joint with a smaller ball and more race for cushion. It looks remarkably like the Ballstic forged joint https://www.ballisticfabrication.com...allistic-joint sans the small raised center section in the ball that creates the self centering feature and also creating a wear surface vs the metal cloak that has everything fused together.

Using this comparison is just another marketing gimmick to take advantage of those that don't better. I like how you say 15-+ for both your joint and metal cloaks joints when the metalcloak vidieo shows 20+ degrees of misalignment and your video shows a 12 degree of misalignment. So deceptive on your part although your use of the +- makes it technically correct. The way you take advantage of the new or uneducated jeep owner is the biggest gripe I have with your company.
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Rock Krawler Suspension View Post
That is obviously not related to our Pro Krawler or Pro Flex Joints at all! Sorry of any confusion. If that is still linkable somehow we will get that corrected as soon as possible.

For all our new Pro Flex, Pro Krawler and New Sway Bar Links we recommend 000 Grade Grease.

RK
And make sure you don't over grease the joint!
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