Wsullivan1221

Before I get yelled at.. NO I did not find any forums comparing the two. Yes I've done my research. If you know of other links comparing the two, I'd be happy to see a link posted.

I can't find what kind of supercharger RIPP is, where I know Sprintex is twin screw (which I prefer), both have intercoolers, and RIPP has a higher Max hp but Sprintex has a higher Max torque output. Does anybody have any experience with both? And lastly, I understand RIPP is proven and Sprintex is new to the scene.. which is why I made this forum

UselessPickles

RIPP uses a Vortech centrifugal supercharger. It's like the compressor side of a turbo, driven by the engine accessory belt. The general impact of a centrifugal supercharger is that boost is (approx) proportional to the square of the engine speed, and torque gains are (approx) linearly proportional to engine speed.

Here's a nice graph I found showing *general* differences in torque curve shapes for different types of forced induction (and nitrous):



Sprintex, Magnuson, and Edelbrock are all different variations of the general class of "positive displacement" (PD) superchargers. With variations in the shapes of their boost and torque curves.

RIPP *claims* substantial boost and torque gains at low RPM, but I have not yet seen any good evidence of this. Their claims are contrary to the theory of how centrifugal superchargers work, and general observation of how centrifugal superchargers affect the torque curve on other vehicles.

Good luck finding a direct dyno comparison between Sprintex and RIPP. You can find individual charts of each, but they can't be compared directly (likely from different types of dynos, etc).

doc5339

Some general stuff:

Originally Posted by doc5339
I appreciate your input, but I have really considered all of the forced induction options for the JK. I understand the pros and cons of Roots, Lysholm, Centrifugal, and Turbo.

The actual tuning of all of the available units seems to be one of the biggest issues that most guys are having (especially guys with auto trans). After considering everything on the market for the JK/JKU, I was going for Prodigy Stage II Turbo, but it required a spacer lift of the front end to clear the pipes and I am one of those few guys who will not mess with stock ride height and suspension. I drive 99% on the road (manual transmission) and like most people, I do not really "need" forced induction, I just want it. I would prefer linear power throughout the rev range, but have found real world issues with all of the Roots and the one Lysholm/Twin-Screw option. RIPP has better low-end than one might expect, at least as tested on a manual JKU over on JeepLab and from word of mouth by other owners. RIPP has drawbacks, but overall has the least issues and highest owner satisfaction as far as I have found. ProCharger is well known, but not for the JK platform. I have the sneaking suspicion that it may be as good or an even better setup than RIPP, I am just trying to find the guys who have installed and tested them.

Here is what I found in my research regarding Forced Induction of the 3.6 Pentastar for my mainly on-road purposes:
MAGNUSON: Roots using Eaton Rotors, prone to heat-soak, overall good power and 0-60 comparable to RIPP. Tuning had issues early on particularly for auto trans. Requires use of permanent 2-piece oil filter due to configuration. Has electric pump installed very low bear axle; looks like a problem waiting to happen for water intrusion and pump failure. Many guys using and happy with it.

EDELBROCK E-FORCE: Similar Roots design, but allows for free access to oil filter. Priced lower than Magnuson. Tuning not totally dialed-in yet. Requires minor drilling of engine block. Good product support, but small gains with lackluster performance unless you spend more money to tune it. Prone to hear-soak, with notably higher engine temps after install. Best looking unit in my opinion, looks like it belongs under the hood; you may be able to tell, but this was my early favorite because I wanted a Roots and loved the look.

SPRINTEX: The only Lysholm (Twin-Screw) unit makes claims of lower heat-soak due to cooling process and use of glass-impregnated nylon on the manifold instead of metal; I asked Sprintex for technical or empirical data to support this and they never replied. 3 out of 4 owner contacted were unhappy, 2 actually sold or are selling theirs. The one guy who is happy has a manual. Issues were surging, heat-soak, and much lower than expected MPG (understand all Forced Induction often results in lower MPG). Product support seems OK, though tuning is not sorted-out. I was between this and the RIPP, but the surging issues and lack of communication from Sprintex made me cross them off the list.

RIPP: Centrifugal Vortech V3 that requires rebuild at some point, power delivery is exponential, not linear. Requires light grinding and cutting (can't truly return engine to stock). Very good 0-60 and peak power. Very good product support, and excellent market penetration. Have not heard from an unhappy owner, though they had some type of "lift-to-shift" issue with the auto transmissions at least early on. Prone to water intrusion, but far less prone to heat-soak. Tuning appears dialed-in for these, definitely for the manual trans. Installation is a bit more of a PITA compared to Magnuson, Edelbrock, Sprintex.

PROCHARGER: Centrifugal P-1SC-1 similar to Vortech V3 that claims easiest and fastest installation, and largest available Intercooler. Requires relocation of alternator very low (possible dust and water instruction issue). Installation appears to be very straightforward and clean. Have no information from actual owners. Progidy: Stage II Turbo (only using this because I was about to buy it) using optional Precision Turbo. Best power/torque for your dollar bar-none. Like the centrifugal sc units, power comes on just below 3,000 RPM, but is actually delivered in strong linear torque curve. Fastest 0-60 times against other JK forced induction, and many engine swaps. Water intrusion is an issue and not an ideal application for some off-roading. Requires 2" of clearance for exhaust pipes, making spacer lift at minimum a necessity for installation. Appears to have most time consuming installation. Tuning is dialed-in, and product support is outstanding. For the purposes of this thread let us please focus on RIPP and ProCharger. I have analyzed, scrutinized, and dreamt about the installation, Dyno Charts, 0-60 times, daily driving manners from actual owners of RIPP, Magnuson, Edelbrock, Sprintex, and Progidy Turbo. I am really hoping to find some actual ProCharger owners with this thread.
I've always HATED Dodge/Chrysler and how they code their computers. I've had two Viper's in the past that were modified and you could only tune them so much (Unless you wanted to spend 5k plus on a Motech). Ive always loved my LS motors because you can tune the shit out of them and they are so efficient. Good luck on your search, post up the results

UselessPickles

RIPP's claims:
Stock - 189 whp, no claimed stock torque on their product page (but I've seen similar dyno results with about 175 wtq).
Supercharged - 325 whp (~72% gain), 300 wtq (~71% gain)


Sprintex's claims:
Stock - 194 whp, 238 wtq (their stock dyno chart has an unusual stock torque curve that doesn't agree with some other charts I've seen. Sprintex's results show much more low/mid-range torque stock, then tapering off quite a bit in the upper RPM range, where other result's often show a relatively flat curve with near peak torque from about 2500 rpm to near redline).
Supercharged - 302 whp (~56% gain), 306 wtq (~29% gain)


The percent gains claimed by each manufacturer are much more relevant than absolute peak dyno nyumbers from each. And even then, the percent gains in peak values don't tell the whole story eiither. Need to look at the general torque curve shape and relative gains throughout the entire RPM range. That's hard to do without having dyno results from both on the same (or at least similar) dyno to compare directly.

UselessPickles

Just fixing the formatting a bit to break up several sections apart that were blurred together into one giant paragraph. I didn't want the section about the Prodigy turbo to get lost in the jumble (I have the stage 2 kit with Precision turbo it's fun)

doc5339

You are the man Pickles!

RIPPMODS

In a very rare episode, we give you our production RIPP 3.6L Supercharger system on the best circumstances possible. This means, stock tire size, 6 speed manual transmission and stock gearing. This way, you can see where we stack up against our competitors videos!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BU0eNis9w8

SWFL

Did you have one for the 3.8L? Would you expect more or less gains ?

UselessPickles

My comments on the Youtube video have mysteriously disappeared (conspiracy?), so I'll repeat them here...


A couple problems with your results, claims, and implications.

1) Your stock dyno results stop at 4800 rpm. The stock Pentastar's peak power occurs at redline (6400 rpm). You did not capture peak power of the stock engine. You should have disabled the stock speed limiter to allow a full RPM pull. This can be done by installing the "modified stock" tune from diablosport that does not change the calibration of the tune itself, but allows you to change other settings like the speed limiter, tire size, etc.

2) Because of #1 above, your claimed and implied power gains are incorrect. You did not produce a 72% or 152 hp gain in power.

3) Your stock baseline torque is one of the highest results I've seen. Taking the high baseline number into consideration, and looking at it as a percent gain over stock, that big 367 hp number turns out to not be quite as amazing.


So how big are the gains you show in the video?

Torque is easy, because you did capture the RPM range of peak (or very near peak) torque on the stock engine. Your chart shows about 240 ft-lbs stock and 350 ft-lbs supercharged for a 46% gain in peak torque (remember - it's the percent gain relative to stock baseline that matters; not the absolute numbers, because different dynos configured to do power pulls in different ways can produce very different actual numbers).

Power is a bit harder because, as I pointed out, you failed to capture the peak torque of the stock engine. But we can do a very good job of guesstimating what the peak power would have been if you had been able to record the entire RPM range.

Based on some other dyno results of the stock Pentastar, there is about 90% of peak torque available at 6400 RPM where the engine makes peak power.

Your peak stock torque was 240 ft-lbs.

90% of that is 216 ft-lbs.

power = (torque * rpm) / 5252

(216 * 6400) / 5252 = 263

So we can reasonably guesstimate that you would have recorded a peak of 263 hp at the wheels for the stock Pentastar. That's a REALLY HIGH stock baseline number!

With the supercharger you got 367 hp. That's a 40% gain over 263 hp stock. Not 72% gain.

UselessPickles

Another approach to estimate how much power RIPP's dyno should have reported for the stock engine if it had run to redline is to look at it in terms of percent loss compared to crank numbers for the engine.

At the crank, the Pentastar in the Wrangler is rated for 285 hp and 260 ft-lbs torque.

RIPP did capture the peak torque of the stock engine at about 240 ft-lbs, which is 7.7% less than at the crank.

7.7% less than 285 crank hp comes out to 263 hp at the wheels. Wow... that actually matches my previous estimate exactly!

Something seems fishy about seeing only 7.7% drivetrain loss on the dyno for a Wrangler.