My personal experience... I owned one of the old HF winches. I found it to be unreliable. Without a 10 page post, since no one really asked about cheap winches ... I'll say, it did the job every time but broke a lot.

I now own a Ramsey 9500. It has never failed, and I consider it to be a high end winch. I'll go against the grain here. Winches require maintenance. If they are out in the elements, every few years they should be taken apart. I find water damage, corrosion, lubrication breakdown, and loose connections when I service mine. If you demand the ultimate in long term in reliability from a high end winch, your maintenance will have as much to do with reliability as the brand.

Another opinion. A solenoid should not fail from a few consecutive pulls. When the solenoid is in use the contacts should have near zero resistance as current flows and should not heat up (like an electric motor will). Any good winch uses 100% duty cycle solenoids. The solenoid sees more wear as the contact is opened and closed. This wear will be accelerated if the opening and closing is done under heavy load (and high current). While a PIA, a solenoid failure should not untimately leave you stranded. It will take time, but you can rewire and safely operate a which with only one solenoid if needed. I am in the same boat as your friend with the failed solenoid. I now have a winch that is many years old. It has been used for many recoveries. There is no maintenance or repair that I can do to the inside of the solenoids. Even though I have never had a problem with them I am considering adding a solenoid to my trail kit. If I have to open up the cover for a trail fix, I would rather just make the repair and be done than re-wire.

Ultimate trail Gurus, do you know how your winch solenoids are wired?

 

I too had trouble with the Warns and especially the solenoids that kept failing. When I got the new JK, I went with the EPi 9 for several reasons.

1. Winch test from Hell reviews and how well it did.
2. Price
3. Real world wide acceptance as a very good winch as well as Warn.
4. The solenoid and how they are made is much more reliable that what Warn supplies with their units.
5. Ease of replacing the cable should it break or need replaced on the spool. Much easier than the Warn.

 

I have a Warn 9.5 xp...and its been mounted ever since they came out, I got one of the first ones, they were not even listed on the sites as available yet........I can't kill it, and its fast under load.

There are other warn winches that are less capable, and made for less harsh or frequent use, but the xp is just made really well. Its been dunked regularly in acidic Pine Barren water/mud for years, and none has even leaked in past its seals...its sealed like it had to complete a mars expedition.



I only paid just a bit over $600 for it...so when I see it listed for $1100 or so on the reviews, I laugh.

Its offered all over the internet for closer to $960 delivered than $1,100.

The Chicago Electric winch "finished", but they know they killed it....it's limited to a 1 minute pull at a time...I feel that they should have honored that....it was already the slowest winch, what's another few minutes?

No winch is perfect for everyone......as the frequent hard pulller, and the twice a year yanker, do not NEED the same winch.

Sure, if you want to have the winner of the test, get the Warn 9.5 xp....

But the Superwinch was a great alternative, and saves a few hundred $....and if you lower rigs by letting out line, as opposed to hauling them up....the off drum brake of the Superwinch won't heat the drum like the cone brake will, etc.

If you don't do long lowerings of rigs by braking them down cliff faces, etc....the brake system is less of an issue, as that;'s about the only situation where the brake heats the drum.

I've run nothing but MasterPull synthetic line (The same one) since I mounted the xp...and I've never had a drum heat buildup issue....but I don't do much lowering with the brakes...mostly long hard pulls. the small amount of lowering, say 25' or so at a time once in a while, didn't make a noticeable difference.

Some that DNF'd were just unlucky I think....and from my experience, were better than they came off, like the T-Max, which from what I've seen, is an amazing performer...speed wise its toe to toe with the XP on light loads, and only falls off as the load rises, pulling a much smaller percentage of its rated capacity by the time the line is spooled on, compared to the XP, which stays stronger than most other winchs, as the spoool fattens.

None of them have Warn's lifetime warranty...but, if you have the patience, and can allow required cooling off periods, etc...(Most people do NOT have this patience...), you can buy a few cheap ones, or, get one expensive one that's a lot faster/taxes your patience less, etc.

The permanent magnet motors draw fewer amps, but need to draw the amps for a longer period of time, so the battery drain is similar in the long run typically...and they are less reliable, etc.

So - If I were a 2x a yr yank type, and it was a cheapo or nothing, I'd go cheapo.

If I were the "guy" that gets that 3 am sunday call saying "I'm stuck in the swamp, I'm lost, I think I saw the Jersey Devil, get me out of here!" - You get the Warn.

 

If you want reliability, get a hydraulic winch, there isn't anything more reliable, which is why the military, firefighters and industrial or construction vehicles use them on their vehicles. It doesn't overheat, there is no cool down period, and they can go forever, I have heard of many electrical winches fail or break, I have yet to hear about a hydraulic winch break, they are waterproof and you can operate them underwater (try that with an electrical one) they take very little electrical power since the power needed comes from your power steering pump. Of course they do require the engine running to operate, but electrical winch won't operate very long if the engine is off as well, so this is a fairly poor argument. Also hydraulics winch don't require as much maintenance/cleaning as electrical since they are virtually environmentally sealed.

 

8274 by Warn! in the Rain Forest Challenge in Malaysia, it just kept going and going in the most extreme jungle races in the world!

 

try using a hydraulic winch when you are bogged down in the middle of a river with a slightly strong current and water level as high as your tires and your engine stalled!...an electirc winch has still proven all-around dependablity..

 

Not if the vehicle has a pto from the tranny/tcase.

 

If you know you are going to be wheeling in or around water chances are you installed a snorkel to your car. And if you didn't, then you argument goes for an electrical winch as well. Listen, I am not saying that electrical winch are a bad choice, nor I am trying to argue about what winch is best underwater in extreme condition and extreme current In the underwater example I was merely emphasizing that an hydraulic winch in environmentally sealed, an electrical one is not.... It's not so much using it underwater, it's about it still working when you come back up on dry land... for reliability hydraulic winch are best, there is not much to be argued... Even Warn professional/industrial winches are Hydraulic not electric... If you do a google search that compare both electrical and hydraulic in the field, I doubt very much that you'll find any articles were the hydraulic came second.

 

Well, From what I've seen in the field...the MileMarkers are reliable hydraulic units...and the 9.5xp is a reliable electric unit. We wheel with both.

I'm hearing claims above that the MM is faster and stronger under load though, and lighter than the electrics...and that's NOT in my experience....So, I looked the MAKERS charts, and its not in THEIR experience either....so I'm listing what MM says the MM 10.5 K can do, and what Warn says the Warn 9.5xp can do.



Both work under water, both pull reliably...but, lets say you comapre a 10.5 K MM to the 9.5K Warn xp -


The Warn has 125' of reach, the MM has 100' of reach...a 25% longer reach for the Warn.

The Warn weighs 87 lb, the MM weighs 103 lb, another 16 lb for the MM....so, its HEAVIER, not lighter....but not ALOT heavier.

The MM uses 3/8" cable, vs the 5/16" Warn cable....trading range for lline strength....and, probably, accounting for the extra weight.

(I use synthetic line, so I beat both issues there)

If you had to drag some sorry ass out of the muck, lets make it 100' to at least allow the MM in the game:

(Assuming you have a 3.5 gallon per minute/1,500 psi steering pump, and/or a battery with enough reserve, etc...)



Warn 9.5 K................................................. ..Mile Marker 10.5K

Layer...........................(lb pull)

1 - 9,500 lb..............................................10,500 lb (10.5 k beats 9.5 K)

2 - 8,650 lb................................................8,500 lb (9.5K out pulls 10.5 k by 150 lb)

3 - 7,920 lb................................................7,400 lb (9.5K out pulls 10.5 k by 520 lb)

4 - 7,400 lb................................................6,400 lb (9.5K out pulls 10.5 k by

1,000 lb)

5 - 6,940 lb (5th wrap on the 9.5K still out pulls 10.5 k's 4th wrap - etc.)



OK - so much for the Hydraulic being stronger....its rated higher, but as soon as the line spools on, its 10.5 K winch is already weaker than the 9.5K winch.

On a 100' pull, the 9.5K winch is able to pull a thousand pounds more load than the 10.5 k winch.

Even the 5th wrap on the 9.5k xp, is out pulling the 4th wrap on the 10.k MM.

__________________________


OK, same winches, how about line speed under load....the hydraulics were claimed to be faster under load.

We already know the hydraulic is WEAKER as the line spools, but, the line speed should increase as the spool diamter grows....so, wrap to wrap, the Warn will be pulling more weight, but, to be kind, we'll pretend the weights are the same, and just comapre wrap to wrap speeds for under load pulls:



Warn 9.5k xp................................................ ......Milemarker 10.5 K

Layer....................feet per minute line speeds

1 - 16.8.............................................. ................5.56

2 - 12.8.............................................. ................6.43

3 - 10.1.............................................. ................7.41

4 - 8.8............................................... .................8.58

5 - 7.6............................................... ..................NA


Hmmmmm, the Hydraulic Winch is NOT faster under load....its SLOWER under load, and, its even slower considering that above, it was pulling a LIGHTER load at each wrap depth to boot.

_________________________________________________

So - The Warn 9.5 xp winch outperforms the Mile Marker 10.5 K winch pretty much on all counts under load, its simply stronger and faster under load.

_________________________________________________

The above MileMarker has a trick the Warn can't do though, its a two speed, so, if the load is very light, less than 1,600 lb for example, it can haul in significantly faster.

________________________________________________

If you do long muck drags, the two speed won't help much, but, if you do a bunch of helping a slipping rig up a steep slope, where all it needs is a little help to make it, then the two speed is a wonderful option to have.

__________________________________________________


OK - I add up all of the above, and it looks like the Warn easily wins the under load competition, despite being rated a thousand pounds lower in capacity, rather than losing it as predicted.

As I've used both, and both are reliable....I'd say either could work for you.

I personally went for the xp because at the time, I'd looked at the MM's...and none of my rigs I'd use it on had a steering pump that would let me near the above MM figures....so it would be even SLOWER, and WEAKER, than above.

:(

The few guys with AGR's and bigger rigs, etc...well, they had steering pumps that could meet or exceed the 3.5 gpm/1,500 psi specs required.

My TJ for example was running way below those pump specs.

The GPM tells how FAST the line speed is, and the PSI tells the lbs it can haul in.

What ever the JK's pump specs are low on, that will be what's sacrificed.



I have not checked on the JK's steering pump specs....so, for all I know, they are stronger than the TJ's, etc...(I hope....)...but I don't know the actual specs right now.



having used both, and wheeled with people using both, etc...I'm going to list some points for and against each type:



Both Mile Marker, and Warn, make some winches that are less reliable than the two examples above....so, its a situation that requires looking at the ratings, and the duty cycles, etc.

For example...the hydraulic units DO overheat, and stall, if too many hard pulls are done, just like an electric...its just your steering that over heats, and you have to wait for your steeering pump to cool, instead of waiting for the electric motor to cool.

______________________________________

Its harder to do SELF recovery with a hydraulic...as you lose your power steering's boost like crazy when its busy pulling line, etc....and, if you stall the engine....the winch is dead.

______________________________________

People can stall in the water, and sometimes its BECAUSE they don't have a snorkel....maybe even an open element CAI type wet vac set-up, etc.



Its a BAD idea to try to re-start....so, if you're the only one with a winch, the electric CAN pull you out...the hydraulic cannot.

So - always wheel with buddies who can haul your wet sorry ass back to shore for you....or stay the freek out of the water.



_______________________________________

I'm out of lunch, so that's about it for now - I hope it helps!

 

watch.

http://www.milemarker.com/video/comparison.html

I am not claiming the Hydraulic is faster though. But if you are stuck, is speed so important, I mean it's not like electric winch are twice faster, it's a little bit faster, I feel we are really pulling hair here...

Here is a good and fair article about the pros and cons of both:

http://www.4x4review.com/products/ac...es/mmwinch.asp