My Jeeps shakes and wobbles and Americas Tire today clued me in today that I do not have hub center rings to help center my wheels.
Will installing hub centric rings fix my problem? If so, seems like a quick fix!

Here is the background to the story....

2012 JK Unlmited Rubicon with just under 4,000 miles.
Outfitted with Rock Krawler mid arm suspension and king shocks 2.5.
GY MTR Kevlar 35" w/ Mickey Thompson Classic Lock 2 wheels.
This setup has been running great for 5+ months - no problems whatsoever.
Tires had been at 34 psi and ran for about 2,500 miles.

I then decided to change things up a bit and purchased a new Raceline beadlocks (RT233 w/ steel lock ring).
Installing the beadlocks was easy following the directions.
I took my time tightening the bolts ensuring I touched every bolt.
After tightening them down a quite a bit (must have been 15 rounds of tightening), I then began to torque them all to 12 pounds then all at 14 pounds, then all 16 pounds then 17 pounds (4 times I checked at 17).
Inflated to 25 psi, put them on the jeep and took a test drive.
Speed wobbles and steering began to shake at 35mph, so I took them in to have them balanced (makes sense I need to do this).
Wheel Works balanced them and I drove home without any shaking or wobbling (even on the freeway at 60+mph).

I thought I was set, but a day later I drove the jeep down to grab a Pete's coffee and immediately experienced wobbles at 35-40 mph. Wtf!
It was fine driving home the day they were balanced, why all of sudden is my Jeep shaking again?

I called Raceline and they thought they may need to be rebalanced as the tire/wheel may have moved a little and it's not uncommon to have to rebalance beadlocks 2-3 times to get it right. Initially, I was qusestioned about he installation, but you really cannot screw it up as the wheel is self centering (tire fits perfectly over the wheel, then you only need to take time to tighten the bolts). I even measured the lock ring on the tire - definitely centered.

Given my Jeep had been running great prior, the only change made was the wheel.
Was the shaking because I'm now running at a lower psi of 25 compared to 34psi? I thought maybe I was just not used to feeling the road chatter, but the wobble seemed pretty intense and something else other than psi clearly must be causing the wobble and shaking through the steering wheel.

I think I then took it out again and it drove great! Hmmm. It felt so good I drove it to work the following day at highway speeds, through towns, across the bridge over the pennisula - ran great all day! No wobbles or any indication there was a problem. This was last Tuesday (Feb 12th).

I then leave town for a couple days and the first thing I want to do when I get home Friday is take my Jeep for a spin. Immediately the Jeep starts to shake at 35-40mph! Wtf! I keep going to my destination thinking the air in the tires need to heat up or something. I'm on a side road probalby going about 40mph talking to my friend on the phone when it really starts to shake bad! I had been reading about death wobble and I think it may have been death wobble. Before I could only feel my steering shaking, but this time I could actually see my hood and front end shaking badly. I knew after reading about death wobble I had to hit the breaks and bring to a stop which I did. All good, but holy crap kind of scary. I don't think I was in realy danger, but still I think i was more concerned about damage to my Jeep's suspension givne how violent it wobbled.

I kept going keeping it below 35mph and limped home fine - could still feel the wobble on occassion as I approached 40mph and especially if I hit a bump in the road. This was yesterday.

Today I took it into Americas Tire Company to have to re-balanced.
ATC said the tires were only slightly out of balance, but overall in good shape.
One of the mechanics mentioned the gap between my wheel and the hub - stating I needed to buy hub rings to fill the gap.
Otherwise, my lug nuts were the only thing centering my wheels.

***Given how much heavier the Raceline wheel is compared to my prior Mickey T's, do you think the added weight and lack of hub centric rings is what is causing my wobbling?

Btw, my track bar and other suspension bolts remain tight - just like the day 4 wheel parts installled them.
I have not checked my ball joints, but could they have gone bad this soon? I only have 4K miles.
Raceline also mentioned since I'm using the same tire, given I had run them at 34psi and now that I'm running at 25 psi, maybe the wear is uneven and could contribute to the wobble. Hard to know for certain.

Here are a few photos of how I built the wheel and space between my Raceline wheel and hub.







I

 

Did you remove the clips hold on the rotors on the studs that only have room in the factory wheels.

 

I have not removed any clips, but thinking 4WP may have the day they installed my GY tires and Mickey T wheels.
I'm not familiar with these clips but I will check to be sure.

The wheels do have less backspace (4" versus prior Mickey T at 4.5"), so they stick out a little further.
Not sure if that constributes if the tire wear is uneven. Tire looks fine though - only a 2-3K miles on them.

thanks!

 

From what you have explained, you don't have a tire balance problem.

Below in my signature is a link to my Diagnosing Death Wobble write-up thread.

Watch the 2 videos in post #3 first. Then read posts #1 and #2.


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Unless that first picture of the hub center is from an odd angle, its definitely out of whack. And with tires the size and weight we all run you need hub and lug centering. One alone can't be trusted really. And running a Lower pressure might be pronouncing the issue a bit and making it more frequent.

But of course someone will chime in next to prove I'm wrong, but I work in a shop and have seen this happen.

 

This is true. The increase in backspacing also could have made a worn component more obvious now.

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thanks everyone for your replies. Knowing there was no way I was going to find a hub centric ring on a Sunday, I went ahead and put my MT classic lock wheels back on the jeep today. It took most of morning, but I got it done. Wheel Works did the balancing, then I took them home and isntalled them back on my jeep (95 ft pounds). I then took the jeep out for a spin and no wobbles at all. Up to 60+ mph, railed corners, then drove on a really bumpy back country road. No problems whatsoever. I am running the MT at 32 psi, but seems hard to believe a 5 psi difference would make such a difference (I had been running Raceline wheel at 27psi when I ran into problems two days ago).

None of my suspension appeared to be loose or have any movement.
I have no idea what my caster is or how to measure, but I don't think that would matter given the only change is my wheels.

Given I have my MT's back on the jeep and it's drivng great again, I'm not certain I'm going to go through mounting the bead locks again. Probably sell them, then use the money on other upgrades.

In summary, the key change was obviously the wheel.
MT wheel is 17x9 with 4.5 backspace (not sure what weight is but light in comparison to bead lock)
Raceline wheel is 17x9.5 with 4 backspace (and heavier)
MT PSI 32 runs great and feel good.
Raceline 27 psi felt great, but wobbled (most of the time it wobbled, but other times no wobble at all). I cannot figure it out.

I can only assume the less backspace pushed my wheel out further and along with the increase in wheel width (.5 inches), increased weight and lower psi, I had a lot more rubber on the road. If my tires are unevenly worn at just under 4K miles, I could see how it may contribute to my wobbling. And not having the hug centric ring may not be helping, but then again I've never seen a death wobble write-up mention hub centric rings as a fix for death wobble. Not to mention the inner diameter of my MT wheel is the same as the Raceline wheel (i.e. same gap between hub and wheel). Probably a combination of the above lead to my wobble and vibration in the steering wheel as I do not think the balance was ever a an issue. I'm sure I won't get what I paied for these wheels, but I did learn quite a bit and it was a lot of fun. On to the next mod.

 

What do the conicles between the two show in comparison?

Do the lug-centric areas match between the two? Im willing to bet they don't, and that could be why the hub wasn't centered on the racelines.

Just throwing some things to think about before you take a cost hit on such nice wheels.

 

Here are some photos for comparison.
They look very close, but probably not the same as you say.
I'll check tomorrow, but the lug holes for the Raceline appears deeper.
The gap in the center around the hub looks the same though.

Raceline front wheel




MT front wheel



Raceline rear wheel



MT rear wheel




thanks,
Kleve

 

I see you inflated to 25psi, any chance you didn't seat the rear bead? sometimes it takes well more that 25psi to seat a bead.

Something to check anyway.

Let me know what fixes your wobbles as I have a set of Raceline beadlocks just waiting for new tires so I can try them out