New product concept - which manufacturer?
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JK Junkie
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,482
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From: Denver, CO
New product concept - which manufacturer?
Nobody here have any insight on which aftermarket company is good to work with when it comes to a product concept/design? I know from the world (manufacturing wise) that I walk in, some companies are better to wrk with than others. As for the keeping world, I am curious if any of you have ever approached a company for a design. Who you worked with, did you have a non-disclosure? A patent pending already? A patent in place and shopped it around? Did you have or were requested of a prototype? Submit the design in CAD? have an attorney involved? You get the picture. BTW, if you have never done this process, please hold your opinion. I want to hear from people with experience on this as opposed to "how you think it would or should work". Thank you in advance for understanding!!! 
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 740
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From: Colorado
Best advice I can give is cover yourself legally beforehand. Get a lawyer involved and see if you can get a copywright or patent on whatever product you have in mind. If you do approach a company always get them to sign an NDA before speaking with them.
Without any of that, all you have is an idea and what they have is the means to actually make it a product (hence you talking to them in the first place).
Without any of that, all you have is an idea and what they have is the means to actually make it a product (hence you talking to them in the first place).
Thread Starter
JK Junkie
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,482
Likes: 1
From: Denver, CO
Best advice I can give is cover yourself legally beforehand. Get a lawyer involved and see if you can get a copywright or patent on whatever product you have in mind. If you do approach a company always get them to sign an NDA before speaking with them. Without any of that, all you have is an idea and what they have is the means to actually make it a product (hence you talking to them in the first place).
JK Junkie
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 4
From: Israel
Nobody here have any insight on which aftermarket company is good to work with when it comes to a product concept/design? I know from the world (manufacturing wise) that I walk in, some companies are better to wrk with than others. As for the keeping world, I am curious if any of you have ever approached a company for a design. Who you worked with, did you have a non-disclosure? A patent pending already? A patent in place and shopped it around? Did you have or were requested of a prototype? Submit the design in CAD? have an attorney involved? You get the picture. BTW, if you have never done this process, please hold your opinion. I want to hear from people with experience on this as opposed to "how you think it would or should work". Thank you in advance for understanding!!!
We always kept complete secrecy before letting in anyone/company, to the degree that, whenever possible, prototype parts were ordered at different places, so the producer of any part couldn't know what was the end product.
We approach companies only after we have a patent, and a signed NDA is a per-requisite before any details are given to a third party.
Even then, we give the rough idea, and disclose further details only when we see serious interest.
Some of the above is not possible with relatively simple Jeep accessories, such as grab handles for instance, but a patent and a signed NDA are good protection.
I'd consult with a patent filing office, as the exact phrasing is very important, and with a lawyer re' the phrasing of the NDA for your specific case.
We usually don't bother with filing for a patent in China...
Can't help with the company recommendation.
If your best ideas pop up when you have an headache, never take Aspirin...
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Just read your other post and see that you're familiar with all that...
Last edited by GJeep; May 13, 2014 at 12:09 PM.
JK Freak
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
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From: Seattle
Who to recommend largely depends on the product type and how far along with the design you are.
Molded plastic, machined aluminum, laser cut and welded steel and sewn soft-goods are going to be made by different outfits.
Couple scenarios;
1.) Back of the napkin sketch idea. You've got a long ways to go and some cap expense is needed.
2.) Design is already modeled in CAD. You need an alpha prototype shot in urethane or CNC cut for validation testing on an Alpha prototype. That's not difficult to source.
3.) You've already completed Beta testing and the design is ready for tooling. You're ahead of the curve. There are plenty of manufacturers in the US that do great work.
Patents are great if you can get them. It's not always easy or worth the expense.
Soft-goods designs for example are rarely issued patents because it's difficult to prove it's never been done before.
Lab notebooks with detailed design notes, lab test results, design changes and witness signature is valid proof of design concept and ownership. A notary can make it legal document.
NDA is standard practice with outsourcing.
The US based companies I've dealt with aren't out to steal ideas. Asian manufacturers on the other hand, watch it. There is zero patent protection overseas.
Molded plastic, machined aluminum, laser cut and welded steel and sewn soft-goods are going to be made by different outfits.
Couple scenarios;
1.) Back of the napkin sketch idea. You've got a long ways to go and some cap expense is needed.
2.) Design is already modeled in CAD. You need an alpha prototype shot in urethane or CNC cut for validation testing on an Alpha prototype. That's not difficult to source.
3.) You've already completed Beta testing and the design is ready for tooling. You're ahead of the curve. There are plenty of manufacturers in the US that do great work.
Patents are great if you can get them. It's not always easy or worth the expense.
Soft-goods designs for example are rarely issued patents because it's difficult to prove it's never been done before.
Lab notebooks with detailed design notes, lab test results, design changes and witness signature is valid proof of design concept and ownership. A notary can make it legal document.
NDA is standard practice with outsourcing.
The US based companies I've dealt with aren't out to steal ideas. Asian manufacturers on the other hand, watch it. There is zero patent protection overseas.
Thread Starter
JK Junkie
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,482
Likes: 1
From: Denver, CO
Guys, I work for a manufacturer. A global manufacturer and global leader in my industry. I am already very aware of what you are pointing out. As I said, I already have my name on a few patents, have a number of designs in my industry.
I want to know if anybody has had direct experience with a manufacturer that is more accepting of joint ventures vs. just wanting to take an idea, tweak it slightly to get past a patent, etc. Some will be more than willing in an effort to grow their product line. Others, want to see, tweak the design and run with it without the contributors involvement.
If you have ever done the patent process, you would know, the big players often patent many ideas along the way to just one product. That's how you lock it in. The most recent product we patented, has 27 patents leading into the product, just to protect any variant of the product. A savvy company can get by one patent idea.
Again, if you have direct experience, with an off road company/manufacturer, responses would be appreciated. Thank you.
I want to know if anybody has had direct experience with a manufacturer that is more accepting of joint ventures vs. just wanting to take an idea, tweak it slightly to get past a patent, etc. Some will be more than willing in an effort to grow their product line. Others, want to see, tweak the design and run with it without the contributors involvement.
If you have ever done the patent process, you would know, the big players often patent many ideas along the way to just one product. That's how you lock it in. The most recent product we patented, has 27 patents leading into the product, just to protect any variant of the product. A savvy company can get by one patent idea.
Again, if you have direct experience, with an off road company/manufacturer, responses would be appreciated. Thank you.
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Thread Starter
JK Junkie
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,482
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From: Denver, CO
Based upon my personal experience you seem to be going down the wrong path, but that may be just because of the differences in products I deal with in comparison to what you're trying to sell. The company I work for has purchased many ideas/concepts as well as created quite a few of their own. They're an electronics technology corporation and own the rights to a lot of patents. They're a $4.4 Billion annual revenue company....yes, that's with a "B". As well, in my position I'm in sales where I take those technologies and sell them to other corporations in the form of a product. People don't come to our "manufacturing" locations with their concepts to sell them....that's were they build the products. They go to a company's Corporate Product Planning and Sales departments which can be totally separate from manufacturing depending on the size of the company. If you went to our manufacturing sites with your idea, they would have no interest because they have no decision making for new products which they end up building. Product Planning and Sales are the divisions in a company which can look at your product concept and then be able to answer those questions like, "Does this new product fit in our road map of future products and our current portfolio of products?" "Do we feel we can sell this product to our customers?". If you get the interest there, then those groups will bring in their design/development engineering groups to evaluate further in regards to possible negative impact scenarios, and technical feasibility Q&A discussions. It can also work in the opposite manor where you can demo the product to the engineering design group, who then call in the product planning and sales groups. As already pointed out, you will need to file for a patent and then have a signed mutual NDA with each of the company's you are showing the concept to. Although, don't plan on an established company being interested in signing an NDA with someone that is coming from a non established start up company. You can push for that later, after you've established some actual interest. You don't have to wait for the patent, that actually takes quite awhile before you receive a patent number (at least 2-4 years). That's why there's the term "Patent Pending" which means it's been properly filed with the patent office, and they've issued you an associated patent application number which gives you some protection at that point, but your patent application is still going through the patent application/verification process. The patent office needs to make sure your filing for a patent is not already patented. There are many patents on file, which have never come to be real life products. Sometimes you may think you have a new concept because you've never seen that product in real life, but it is quite possible it may already be patented. There is often some back and forth between you and the patent office. "Tell us how your new product is different and unique from this patent we already have on file." Don't be surprised if you get the "Sounds great, we'll give you a call if we're interested and set something up, so you can come in and show it to us" and then never receive a call back. That's why there are trade shows which are focused in specific technologies, where smaller start up companies setup booths and mingle with the bigger companies. That's where you might want to start, depending on the new product you're trying to sell. Smaller companies show their new idea products/concepts and try to attract multiple interests from potential companies who may be interested in your new idea. If they're really interested, they'll contact you and you won't have to go looking for them, where they'll invite you to visit with their product planning group. Also remember, a product drawn on a piece of paper does not get as much interest as a product that can be touched, seen and demoed in real life, to be able to show it's potential and concept more clearly. It doesn't have to be a finished product, it just needs to show the potential and convey the concept behind it. Heck, I go to CES in Vegas quite often and there's entrepreneurs on the sidewalks trying to show their ideas, gather interest in 30 seconds or less, and hand out business cards to people as they're leaving the convention. It's a more productive sales networking activity to pursue rather than trying to go to one company at a time and sell your idea. Every company is looking for the NBT (Next Biggest Thing) and it's up to you, to convince them you have it. So for you to be asking the question of "who is a manufacturer who is more susceptible of a joint venture" is a ridiculous question. They're all susceptible to the NBT, and it's up to you to make the sale and convince them you have it. So maybe you should be looking for someone who understands the sales concept to partner up with? Go watch the movie "Jobs". The movie about Steve Jobs. There's actually some really good stuff in that movie of the multiple paths to pursue of how to take an idea to the next level. Steve Jobs didn't invent the PC.....he was the entrepreneurial Sales and Product Planning guy. Good luck
Simple question. Do you have direct experience with ANY aftermarket vehicle manufacturer that was easy or not easy to work with? If not, you aren't helping me. My apologies if this is offensive, but I clearly indicated that I am familiar with the entire process.
In my industry, many companies have a similar model regarding their set up of locations, R&D, marketing, manufacturing, etc. And, there are some that accept concepts with an NDA and no patent, go to production, and agree upon terms.
There are other companies that do this as well. The fact is, if it is printable enough, they will most often look past the need for a patent as they will peruse their own, along with the NDA. As for protection of an idea through a patent, most companies will patent every concept along the way, just to protect the end product and any possible variant there of. So, with havingg the experience of multiple patents, leading to one end product, and applying for each of those patents in over 30 countries, one would conclude that I am not an amateur in this area.
JK Jedi
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 221
From: SE Michigan
ok, without disclosing everything ai know, I am very familiar here as well. As for the company I work for, it may not be in the billions, yes, with a "b", but we do about $400million in net profits. Our manufacturing, R&D, marketing, sales, HR, etc., etc., is under 1 roof. Now, with that said, not all of our manufacturing is in the same location, but every manufacturing facility is with the above mentioned departments. I will respectfully ask you withhold your opinion on that matter, not every company in the world operates in the same manner. Again, as for the process itself, I am very familiar with it. And, you missed a fact with patents. There are various levels of patents and various years of patents as well as the need to secure pa test in other countries, which we deal with being a global company.
Simple question. Do you have direct experience with ANY aftermarket vehicle manufacturer that was easy or not easy to work with? If not, you aren't helping me. My apologies if this is offensive, but I clearly indicated that I am familiar with the entire process.
In my industry, many companies have a similar model regarding their set up of locations, R&D, marketing, manufacturing, etc. And, there are some that accept concepts with an NDA and no patent, go to production, and agree upon terms.
There are other companies that do this as well. The fact is, if it is printable enough, they will most often look past the need for a patent as they will peruse their own, along with the NDA. As for protection of an idea through a patent, most companies will patent every concept along the way, just to protect the end product and any possible variant there of. So, with havingg the experience of multiple patents, leading to one end product, and applying for each of those patents in over 30 countries, one would conclude that I am not an amateur in this area.
Simple question. Do you have direct experience with ANY aftermarket vehicle manufacturer that was easy or not easy to work with? If not, you aren't helping me. My apologies if this is offensive, but I clearly indicated that I am familiar with the entire process.
In my industry, many companies have a similar model regarding their set up of locations, R&D, marketing, manufacturing, etc. And, there are some that accept concepts with an NDA and no patent, go to production, and agree upon terms.
There are other companies that do this as well. The fact is, if it is printable enough, they will most often look past the need for a patent as they will peruse their own, along with the NDA. As for protection of an idea through a patent, most companies will patent every concept along the way, just to protect the end product and any possible variant there of. So, with havingg the experience of multiple patents, leading to one end product, and applying for each of those patents in over 30 countries, one would conclude that I am not an amateur in this area.
You're even so smart, you're on a Jeep "user forum" asking about specific manufacturers on their relationships and susceptibility to taking on outside concept products and are getting frustrated when you're not getting the "specific" replies you seek.
