First - if there is another post on this topic, my apologies in advance for starting a new thread. Please do feel free to link me to existing thread (I couldn't find any good thread in my search tries).

Second... I'm a newbie. (A 50+ y/o newbie - lol) And... THRILLED to be in the Jeep / JK community. Mad props to all of you!

Last detail: my JK is not just my toy, it is also my daily driver. But when I go out to the hills, I like to bang on it hard!

My dilemma... I naively rushed my conservative approach to enter the Jeep world and got a Sport model (Willy's package with 3:73 gear ratio), and ... in typical newbie fashion, I am already thinking to bump up to 37" tires.

Given my understanding of what JK owners are sharing, I am learning it would be wise to address my gear ratio.

Happy to tackle that. Like... moving to something like 5:13 gears... but now I'm wondering if that is a wise - to move to 5:13 with the stock front (Dana 30) axle. (Still a little wet behind the ears here)

Now I'm having this nagging dilemma in my head about whether to change out my front axle to a Dana 44 (or something stronger)... and take on all those modifications...

Or to trade in my Willy's for a Rubicon.

I do like (and prefer) the Willy's trim/notoriety. But I'm essentially at a place where I finally got a toy, and now - before I start customizing it - given my end vision, just wondering if it would save me money and time in the long run to do one or the other.

Any thoughts on this topic?



By the way - I've never had such a good time being on the road and getting / giving acknowledgements (waves) from / to other Jeep owners. In this time of quarantine - I love coming out of solitary confinement and encountering other enthusiasts just getting outside.

You have my love, my respect, and my protection. Happy on, hungry out - and thanks in advance for any thoughts on a robust front axle setup for 37's. whether simple re-gearing, or changing out the axle (or both), or moving to rubicon?

 

You're going to get varied responses from people. I did the same thing you did by buying a lower trim. My jeep had 17k miles on it when I got it with 35's & 3.21 gears. I regeared to 4.56 with the 6sp manual. Somewhere around 30k miles i put on 37s and that was last december! I have a stock dana 30 with gusseted c's, stock balljoints that were there when the c's were welded. I wrecked a ring gear trying to back onto a tree stump. I don't do any crazy rock crawling and being in florida the roads are incredible. i drove it 10k miles all over the country for 4 weeks.

At the end of the day its all in what your intentions are. I definitely am planning an axle swap but for now my d30 is holding up fine for what i need it for.

 

Thanks JFD!
Ironic our paths are crossing, about as far away as the contiguous states allow.... (I'm in Washington)
Got mine with 18k on it, with (almost) 35's (lt315/75r16), and 6sp manual. By the time I actually pull the trigger on 37s and gears, it will probably have 30k. ha!
appreciate you sharing how you hold yours up and the experience.
Makes me a little more confident to tinker on what I have, rather than starting over.
Cheers, fine sir!

 

I don't think you're at a point where bumping trim levels is going to solve your problem. Liking to bang on things HARD is what's going to define what's necessary. Being rough will likely dictate that stock axles might not be enough. You can dump the same money into a d44 front axle but it has the same tube thickness and thin brackets that the d30 does. What you gain with the 44 is ring and pinion size (which is noticeably different, particularly with super low gears) and a spline count. Neither of those will stand up to hard abuse.

Options if you want to continue to bang on it HARD- heavy duty axles, such as the fusion 4x4 axles or prepare to replace parts. Spinning the tires and catching traction can twist or shear an axle shaft. So you upgrade the shaft. Same scenario but upgraded shafts moves your weak link to the gears. So you've upgraded to cryogenic treated gears. Same scenario but upgraded shafts and gears- now you're looking at a driveline failure- whether it be a joint or the physical tube. So you replace the shafts there. Do you see where things get out of control quickly? There's a huge difference in having a good time, responsibly, and just "sending it" at every obstacle. Can it be done with stock parts? Sure- folks do it all the time. Those same folks need to be prepared to replace parts on the trail, or even the obstacle, when they go wide open.


There is a thread though, I think it's called "So you think you want 37's"

 

First thought was: keep it stock and build a buggy...
Second thought was: what does 'bang on it hard' mean to you? Rock gardens with a heavy foot and a lack of thought? Faster speeds on the dirt roads getting to a trail? Could just be donuts in a gravel parking lot for all we know...

Start by reading through the threads stuck right to the top of the Modified Tech area, you might come across a few dozen build considerations you hadn't even considered. That, along with all of the follow-up questions you will be asking, should allow you to come up with a better build plan and a more realistic budget than 'maybe I should swap one weak stock front housing for another weak stock front housing'.

 

Agree with others that a Rubicon will not solve your issues.

IMO you'd be better served with a 60 up front and something larger in the back, something like this Fusion combo LINK or build yourself some junkyard axles in the same config. I'm in the early stages of building a junkyard D60/14B combo for our '14 Rubicon, so I don't have a lot of experienced earned there (yet). I can tell you that with the factory rear D44 on 37s I've eaten 4.88 gears and snapped 4340 shafts. Doesn't sound like I wheel as hard as you, so if you're thinking the rear axle is up to the task I'd have to disagree.

Good luck and prepare your pocket book for your style of wheeling

 

Also FWIW we built a Sport model on 37s for my wife, link to that build is in my sig below.
Hers does well on mild to moderate trails and does great on the road BUT she does not "send it" and she does not play in the rocks.

 

I agree with everything above. There is one gigantic X factor in this scenario. Can you do all this work yourself, do you like tinkering and fixing things, or are you the type that would drop it off at a shop and pay someone else to fix issues? Can you weld and fabricate? If you are the type of person that is going to pay to have all work done, I would tell you to just invest in an aftermarket front axle and consider it an asset that will retain resale value. If you do all your own work then maybe it's worthwhile to take your chances. I wouldn't say you can't get life out of a D30 if it suits you, but any money you put it in it is just a gamble that could end in totally wasted funds vs. funds that could have been put into a quality axle. The real money is usually in labor charges more than parts.......and that is where it bites people who are simply paying someone to fix/upgrade things. There really is no right or wrong here, and it all depends on what you do and how you push the jeep, or don't.

I started with a sport, swapped to Rubicon axles which I then built, and now have aftermarket axles. I would typically say a Rubicon is perfect for someone that is going to use it in stock form. If you're going to start modifying it heavily then it's no better than a sport/sahara cuz all the factory parts outside of the TC are inadequate. e-disco sway bars die, rubi e-lockers crap out, and the axle housings are just as weak as the D30. Just my opinion.

 

You guys are amazing. Thanks for the replies. And thanks for the link, Karls10jk - to resharp001's post - that's gold. And nthinuf - for steering me to the Modified JK Tech.
Lots of good content already out there.
And I can see that by the questions you guys are asking, a lot depends on a driver's personal style, budget, and aptitude.
So... as much as I do want to turn wrench and weld steel - that is not my strength/aptitude. So, most - if not all - of my mods will be turned by a performance shop. Maybe not all at once, but when I do have the budget, I will err on the side of quality/performance.
Regarding style - I guess I accentuated 'bang on it hard' with an exclamation point... lol - yes, I did. But I'm probably not at the far end of that spectrum.
What I do know about myself is that I'm not an experienced driver, and I do tend to send my excitement to the gas pedal. And that equation is bound to bite me. But I don't mind - I'll own it. Anyway, given this combination, I know to stay away from rocks / technical terrain. At least until I find a buddy/mentor.
In the meantime, for me, 'banging on it' means I take unmaintained forest service roads like a rally car racer (except around blind corners - I'm not one of those guys).
A lot of unmaintained service roads around here are rocky/tree-branchy and full of water-eroded potholes. So a 20-50mph race down one of those roads is 'banging on it'. if that helps.
And if I can find mud - I'm hitting it. Deep is good, so I'll be spinning the wheels whether they would do better slow or not.
What led me to start this post is that I found an unmaintained, muddy powerline road with some massive tire ruts and some nice incline. While going up, I was - of course - standing on it and having a ball, but... all the thrashing and bouncing got me thinking about two things.
1) bigger tires would have helped clear the center line (this, the catalyst to this post), and
2) if beefing up the axles (or any other aspect of the build) would address that nagging worry that I'm about to break something.
The challenge for me is that if I do break something... I am pretty likely SOL. Usually travel solo, and would not know how to diagnose what is broke.
Part of the journey of getting this jeep - is to get my head into something besides work.
It's working. I mean... not just driving around like a lunatic... but coming here and finding all these insights. Last night I actually dreamt about Jeep parts. Finally breaking a long episode of workaholic tendencies. Thank you, Jeep. Finally a mental hobby I'm happy to nurse.

I am going to check around the forums for people's preferences on after-market axles. Maybe come back here with more questions related to the 37's.
Until then - thank you guys - really appreciate you supporting newbie enthusiast(s). Looking forward to what's to come.

 

This is very true. I started with a Rubicon and dragged it all over the park with the big boys bone stock. Reinforced the stock 44s when I went to 35s, Reinforced again and did shafts and gears when I went to 37s. So far so good, but I know at this point the axle housings are the limiting factor and they are on my list for the next overhaul. The Rubicon benefits lasted me a good long time but eventually they all get swapped out.

I think if you had the Rubicon to start you might be a little more initially capable, but no sense trading out of something you like to get parts you'll eventually replace anyway. I have a buddy with a Willys who just threw some G2 axles at it (which also covered the gears and shafts issues) and slapped on my old 35s. He hangs with me just fine and he can bump up to 37s any time.