goaterguy

Last year, Apple was the most profitable company on earth. Can't really blame other companies for trying to copy them.

I like the Renegade and I don't think it was just a re-badge job for FCA. Its main purpose its not to be an off roader but to my knowledge its more capable than any other CUV including it's sister the 500X.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Snvsw5Z8c7M I'm not alone here, Renegade sales are very good especially compared to the Compass.

Jeep Renegade US car sales figures

Jeep Compass US car sales figures

JKJA10

This is exactly what the motor vehicle industry wants and thats do away with manual transmissions. They make it convenient from them by making it difficult for us to repair or have it covered by warranty. Automatic means the onboard computer is now fully in control of the vehicle you're driving. I do not need a vehicle that can park its self or brake by its self let alone change my gears for me, I can do all that myself. Just keep in mind that vehicles have been HACKED leaving the operator of the vehicle totally helpless.

mr72

I really don't think that's even remotely related to the problem. It really is an issue of demand and economies of scale. The automakers just want to maximize profit, plain and simple.

In the past, there was both a performance and fuel economy penalty to automatic transmissions, so making the manual transmission come standard helped boost the fuel economy rating of cars and trucks. But this is largely no longer the case. So then it comes down to demand vs. cost of inventory. If the demand for manual transmissions is high enough, then it makes sense to build them and keep them in inventory. But there comes a point where the cost of capturing those customers who prefer a manual will be higher than the revenue they get by selling to that number of customers, and at that point it only makes financial sense to eliminate the manual from the options list. Costing customers is acceptable in this case, since those customers were not profitable to begin with.

The fact that the Wrangler shares transmissions with other vehicles adds greatly to the pressure to remove manuals from the lineup, since most of the other vehicles that share the automatic of the JL will not be offered with a manual because there is nearly zero demand. So if FCA is going to make 350K cars a year that are equipped with a specific automatic transmission (JLs included), and only 10K JLs a year with a manual, then that's only 3% of the total transmission inventory... hardly makes sense to keep manufacturing that part when it only accounts for 3% of the compatible transmission output.

The fact that there is no real viable alternative to a Wrangler, FCA also probably figures new JL buyers will likely still buy an automatic JL even if they would have preferred a manual, since there is no other segment choice. Now, if Land Rover ships Defenders in the USA at a reasonable price and with a manual then maybe FCA will have to rethink this plan as some of their buyers peel off and buy LRs instead. But the thing is, 10K/yr sales of LRDs in the USA would be huge numbers for LR, so even this probably wouldn't make a difference. It'd have to be a major player like Toyota offering a competitive product.

That's still true for your manual, about the hacking. You know the throttle is electronic, right? You can't even start the car without the computer operating. And your JK's computer can already apply the brakes, which is a good thing in many ways (BLD, ETC). However, the computer can't disconnect the direct hydraulic brake feature, but ABS can prevent braking. We're already way, way down that slippery slope, and we have been for two decades now.

More alarming is that self-parking requires computer control of steering, and even if you have a manual, the vehicle will be guaranteed to be equipped with the hardware and computer facilities to control steering, even though the parking feature will not function. Now, it wouldn't be able to override your steering inputs, since the wheel is still mechanically attached to the steering column. But it would be able to perform automatic steering and potentially steer where/when you don't want to. If it were hacked.

Anyway, this is a big side discussion and I don't think it has anything to do with automatic transmissions. I think two or three major things are leading to the demise of the manual transmission for Jeeps. 1) the Wrangler demographic has steadily been increasing, and mostly increasing to include people who (in America) tend to almost exclusively prefer automatics; 2) for a couple of decades now, most new drivers have not learned to drive a manual in America, 3) automatic transmissions have improved to offer durability and performance on par with or better than manual transmissions over the past decade. What this adds up to is decreased demand (as a portion of total demand) for manual transmissions and virtually no future marketability, at least for Wranglers, for manual transmissions.

This won't be true for every market segment, but it seems obvious that within 5-10 years Wranglers will be driven mostly by the typical SUV buyer and will be 100% automatic transmissions.

goaterguy

MR72,

Great post. Finally someones presents FCA, Jeep and the Wrangler as a company that only wants to make money (nothing bad here) and a product that needs to be sold to as many people as possible and not a mythical unicorn that can never be changed too much because of it's history (I'm sure this discussion comes up every single time the Wrangler is redesigned...).

goaterguy

Sorry but this the complete opposite from reality. New automatics handle more power and torque than manuals and if something breaks in an automatic, the manufacturer will have a harder time proving why it can't be covered by warranty than a manual.

Simply read here how many have problems with their throw out bearing, clutch, master cylinder, etc. vs. with the 5 spd auto.

mr72

Thanks. You know some JK enthusiasts on this forum routinely seem to come out of the woodwork, seemingly intent on making sure Jeep remains a super niche market product, FCA shouldn't ever put any features on it that increase the appeal to a larger group of people, or really make any Jeep product that is palatable to a broad user base.

I get it. We want to feel special. We are exclusive. We want our Jeep to make a statement that says something about us, that makes us special, and we want that statement to be something like "I am a hardcore off-road driver" or "I am tough and I can take anything the world dishes out" or "Only me and the select few are really tough and cool enough to handle a Jeep". But the problem is that will kill the Jeep brand if FCA thinks it's a good marketing strategy. The truth is right now, a JKU makes the statement, "I'm a mom and I like outdoorsy-looking accessories like this tough-looking Jeep when I go to the mall in my trail running shoes, tights and North Face vest so I look all cool and outdoorsy". Because there are a ton more people that fit THIS demographic than there are those who will sacrifice convenience, comfort, reliability, performance, etc. because they absolutely have to have a vehicle that will drive through anything.

Jeep is not a specialized niche brand. It's a broad-appeal SUV, even Wranglers. That doesn't mean a Wrangler (or a Renegade or a Cherokee...) is not capable of off-road adventures, but they happen to be capable of on-road use as well and since they are reasonably comfortable, safe, affordable and convenient, there's a very broad appeal and FCA sells a ton of them to everybody.

I remember when the iPhone first came out. It was an expensive luxury item that only the cool kids would buy, much like an Apple Watch is now. But now it's so ubiquitous that you might be surprised to find anybody over the age of six who does not have at least one, and as much as anything it's become a fashion statement. And frankly a Jeep is now just as much a fashion statement as it is anything else. It's actually one of the reasons I kind of regret buying one. But since the actual utility of a Jeep is almost completely unnecessary for virtually everyone including me, it's hard to avoid the fashion element.

Chuck-The-Ripper

I've put 3 clutch kits in mine and another throw out bearing over the weekend. I've iwned exclusively manual transmissions and I'm very much ready to move on. Too much bullshit to put up with and break. Also it sucks my wife can't drive home after I'm drunk, that leaves 3 choices for country concerts: take a Nissan Sentra, don't drink, or risk a dui. Shit, shit, and shit.
Also if you've never taught a woman to drive a stick, don't comment on it... It's a quicker path to a divorce than cheating.. Lol

mr72

One of the three must be true:
a. Chrysler put the world's worst pice of junk OE clutch in JKs
b. You have driven half a million miles in your JK
c. You need to improve your skills driving a manual

My money's on c, but I suppose a is possible.

Somehow, I don't think this is a problem most of us deal with. Don't drink is a pretty solid solution when you have to drive. In fact it's pretty much the only option.

I've taught a bunch of people to drive a manual, including both of my daughters, my son-in-law, some of my daughters' friends... but I didn't have to teach my wife, she knew how when I met her, because like most of us Gen-X kids, she had to learn to drive a manual transmission car or she wouldn't have been able to drive at all in high school.

My dad taught me when I was 9. That was pretty normal for us kids growing up.

But it's not really hard to teach someone to drive a manual. It would be way harder in a Wrangler than it was in the car that I used to teach my daughters.

shabbernigdo

most cant be bothered with shifting now days that would hinder their texting and other shit they do instead of paying attention and just driving their vehicle.

Cutman

That's true. But for me, it's the opposite!!! I drive a 6 spd Wrangler that is usually top down. So I have no choice but to enjoy the ride. Can't talk on the phone or text. It can wait. Jeep on.