Having a few issues with vibration/wondering
05-25-2016, 06:31 PM
#1
JK Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Abilene, Texas
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having a few issues with vibration/wondering
I've been trying to get things ironed out on my JKUR for quite a few months now. I purchased it used with 3" BDS lift and 35" Goodyear MT/R K's. Roughly a few days after buying it I ran into a severe case of DW at roughly 40-50 mph. Took it to a shop, and they did some looking around, came the conclusion I had a bent axle housing, and bad upper ball joints. To remedy the issue they suggested going with adjustable LCA's and Moog Adj ball joints, Synergy sector shaft brace and an alignment. Got those installed and things seemed to be better, but still a vibration around 60 ish in the steering wheel, not a DW, but a constant shaking back and forth still. Had the tires balanced and things seemed to be a little better than before, the guy at Discount tire said they were all off by almost 3 oz of weight each.
Springs were sagging so recently i had the same shop replace them with Synergy 3" springs, and added a synergy drag link flip kit, track bar, Front and rear trackbar bracket relocation kits for a 3" lift, synergy tie rod, and Fox ATS. Now that all that has been installed, the vibration is still there at roughly 50+mph, and now the jeep wants to wander from side to side, almost as if I'm getting hit with gusts of wind. I took the jeep back to have the wheels re balanced/rotated thinking that maybe the balanced them wrong or something. When I got to Discount Tire and explained that I wanted them re balanced they came out and looked at them, and said they were cupped and that was why I was having vibration issues, but said they would re balance and rotate them (only fronts appeared to be cupped according to the service guy, could only visually tell on the front) so they re-balanced all 4 and rotated/crossed the fronts to the back and brought the backs to the front.
When I left, the vibration was much worse after the re-balance/rotation, I'm at a loss for figuring out what I've got going on. I think I may have several issues playing in. I'm not sure if what is going on with my tires, if the vibrations are from them being bad, balanced poorly or the bent axle housing, and I have absolutely no idea why I'm getting the wondering so badly after doing the draglink flip and all the steering stuff.
A complete list of everything as the Jeep sits right now
Synergy 3" Springs
Synergy adjustable LCA's
Synergy Tie Rod
Synergy Front Track Bar
Synergy Drag Link (with flip)
Synergy Front Track bar relocation bracket (for 3+ lift) welded to axle
Synergy rear track bar bracket (for 3+ lift) welded to axle
Synergy Sector Shaft & Track bar Brace
Fox 2.0 shocks
Fox ATS Steering stabilizer
Goodyear MT/R Kevlars (Fronts 30 psi, rears 27 psi)
Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Springs were sagging so recently i had the same shop replace them with Synergy 3" springs, and added a synergy drag link flip kit, track bar, Front and rear trackbar bracket relocation kits for a 3" lift, synergy tie rod, and Fox ATS. Now that all that has been installed, the vibration is still there at roughly 50+mph, and now the jeep wants to wander from side to side, almost as if I'm getting hit with gusts of wind. I took the jeep back to have the wheels re balanced/rotated thinking that maybe the balanced them wrong or something. When I got to Discount Tire and explained that I wanted them re balanced they came out and looked at them, and said they were cupped and that was why I was having vibration issues, but said they would re balance and rotate them (only fronts appeared to be cupped according to the service guy, could only visually tell on the front) so they re-balanced all 4 and rotated/crossed the fronts to the back and brought the backs to the front.
When I left, the vibration was much worse after the re-balance/rotation, I'm at a loss for figuring out what I've got going on. I think I may have several issues playing in. I'm not sure if what is going on with my tires, if the vibrations are from them being bad, balanced poorly or the bent axle housing, and I have absolutely no idea why I'm getting the wondering so badly after doing the draglink flip and all the steering stuff.
A complete list of everything as the Jeep sits right now
Synergy 3" Springs
Synergy adjustable LCA's
Synergy Tie Rod
Synergy Front Track Bar
Synergy Drag Link (with flip)
Synergy Front Track bar relocation bracket (for 3+ lift) welded to axle
Synergy rear track bar bracket (for 3+ lift) welded to axle
Synergy Sector Shaft & Track bar Brace
Fox 2.0 shocks
Fox ATS Steering stabilizer
Goodyear MT/R Kevlars (Fronts 30 psi, rears 27 psi)
Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
05-25-2016, 06:58 PM
#2
JK Super Freak
Sorry, better fix for a bent axel housing is a new axel. You could truss but it's already bent. MTR kevlars have history of not balancing well, mine vibrate at 45 since new and now with many miles on them, vibrate at 55 too. Not much, but felt on steering wheel. Running 15's so there's much rubber rotating.
05-26-2016, 05:07 AM
#3
JK Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: CT
Posts: 3,440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry, better fix for a bent axel housing is a new axel. You could truss but it's already bent. MTR kevlars have history of not balancing well, mine vibrate at 45 since new and now with many miles on them, vibrate at 55 too. Not much, but felt on steering wheel. Running 15's so there's much rubber rotating.
05-26-2016, 07:02 AM
#4
JK Enthusiast
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sicily, Italy
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My 35" MTR/K's vibrate like hell from about 45-55mph as well. I wouldn't throw money into your axle as it's probably fine. If you have a buddy with a Jeep, swap tires and see if the vibration still happens.
05-26-2016, 08:35 AM
#6
JK Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Escondido, California
Posts: 466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont have experience with the MTR's but have heard the vibration stories. Have you got an alignment done recently? I believe cupping is caused by the tow being off and could explain the flighty/wind gust steering. You can get the bent axle fixed if you wanted too. How bad does the "smile" look when looking at the front? As for the adj balljoints I was never a fan. I can understand the use but plenty of folks run these Jeeps with bent front axles and regular style ball joints. Grab a tape measure and measure your tow in your driveway.
05-26-2016, 08:40 AM
#7
Super Moderator
So the wandering is likely the caster set wrong since you now have adjustable control arms. Has this jeep been on an alignment machine? If so, post up the info from that. How did the shop determine that the axle is bent? If the vibration is worse now, move the tires again and see if it changes, that'll confirm you have a tire issue. As others have said, MTRs are notoriously bad at balancing. Also, with all these new parts, be sure to check the torque on everything again after you have 500 miles or so on them or you'll be back to DE sooner than you think.
Trending Topics
05-26-2016, 11:20 AM
#8
JK Super Freak
Lets break this down a bit as I believe there are a couple things going on here. First off, your newly installed components are good quality so that will make things easier to fine tune and get your handling where it should be.
1. Lets start with the obvious. You have tires that are notorious for being a bitch to balance. Ask me how I know. The fact that the tires are cupped makes balancing nearly impossible so the speed related shimmy you are getting are from damaged tires most likely.
2. Why are the tires damaged (cupped)? Well you mentioned a bent axle housing but failed to mention where the housing is bent. Some above posters automatically assumed its your axle tubes. Personally im guessing your axle c's are bent which would explain the tire cupping issue and the fact adjustable moog balljoints are installed. Are C gussets welded onto your axle c's?
3. Alignment? Getting your vehicle on an alignment machine is critical here. This will tell you a lot regaridng your possible bent axle (axle C's). The camber on the alignment sheet will be way off if you bent your C's however it may show less with the adjustable balljoints. The other things it will show is your toe and caster. Like I mentioned you have quality compents installed but they need to be dialed in. Let the alignment guys adjust your toe as it is more accurate than doing it in your driveway with a tap measure. Im guessing your caster may need to be further adjusted due to the flighty steering you described (lower control arms need to be lengthened). You want to shoot for 4.2 to 5 degrees of caster depending on how much lift you are running taking your front driveshaft pinion angle into account. Rule of thum is the more lift you are running the less caster you can run to keep a healthy pinion angle. How much lift did you net from those springs? Start with the low 4 degree mark and increase one full turn of the control arm adjuster sleeve at a time until you feel vibrations then back it down a turn.
3. Balljoints. Your moog balljoints may already be toast or will be toast soon. They are not very robust and will fail just as quick as a stock balljoint (again ask me how I know). This will not help handling. Look into more HD balljoints such as dynttrac, synergy, rare parts or even the spicer HD. If your C's are bent and you require adjsutable balljoints to offset negative camber look into the napa gold adjustable balljoints as they are more quality than the moogs.
4. Stock brackets. Inspect the frame side trac bar brackets for ovaling of holes. The axle side brackets are new HD brackets so no need to inspect those. If damaged replace with aftermarket HD or weld grade 8 washers over the holes. Inspect axle side lower front control arm brackets. These brackets are very flimsy and the holes are square. I had a hard hit on the trail and the bolt sawed the squared hole into a rectangle. I cut those shitty brackets off and replaced them with synergy weld on brackets.
5. Steering. No need to inspect tie rod or draglink ends. Those synergy ends will last you quite a long time. I have 60k on mine running 37s and they are as good as new. I would however inspect your sector shaft on your steering box for play. I am not a fan of sector shaft braces. If the box is damaged send it to West Texas offroad for a rebuild and I would consider you have them tap it for hydro assist. Best mod I ever did. That will take a lot of stress off the steering box
6. Fixes. I would buy new tires to start and burn those mtrs. Get an alignment asap before installing new tires so you dont **** the new tires up. Replace balljoints before new tires as well. Replace or repair any damaged brackets. With the combination of the new HD steering you just installed and by taking these steps above should fix your handling issues
1. Lets start with the obvious. You have tires that are notorious for being a bitch to balance. Ask me how I know. The fact that the tires are cupped makes balancing nearly impossible so the speed related shimmy you are getting are from damaged tires most likely.
2. Why are the tires damaged (cupped)? Well you mentioned a bent axle housing but failed to mention where the housing is bent. Some above posters automatically assumed its your axle tubes. Personally im guessing your axle c's are bent which would explain the tire cupping issue and the fact adjustable moog balljoints are installed. Are C gussets welded onto your axle c's?
3. Alignment? Getting your vehicle on an alignment machine is critical here. This will tell you a lot regaridng your possible bent axle (axle C's). The camber on the alignment sheet will be way off if you bent your C's however it may show less with the adjustable balljoints. The other things it will show is your toe and caster. Like I mentioned you have quality compents installed but they need to be dialed in. Let the alignment guys adjust your toe as it is more accurate than doing it in your driveway with a tap measure. Im guessing your caster may need to be further adjusted due to the flighty steering you described (lower control arms need to be lengthened). You want to shoot for 4.2 to 5 degrees of caster depending on how much lift you are running taking your front driveshaft pinion angle into account. Rule of thum is the more lift you are running the less caster you can run to keep a healthy pinion angle. How much lift did you net from those springs? Start with the low 4 degree mark and increase one full turn of the control arm adjuster sleeve at a time until you feel vibrations then back it down a turn.
3. Balljoints. Your moog balljoints may already be toast or will be toast soon. They are not very robust and will fail just as quick as a stock balljoint (again ask me how I know). This will not help handling. Look into more HD balljoints such as dynttrac, synergy, rare parts or even the spicer HD. If your C's are bent and you require adjsutable balljoints to offset negative camber look into the napa gold adjustable balljoints as they are more quality than the moogs.
4. Stock brackets. Inspect the frame side trac bar brackets for ovaling of holes. The axle side brackets are new HD brackets so no need to inspect those. If damaged replace with aftermarket HD or weld grade 8 washers over the holes. Inspect axle side lower front control arm brackets. These brackets are very flimsy and the holes are square. I had a hard hit on the trail and the bolt sawed the squared hole into a rectangle. I cut those shitty brackets off and replaced them with synergy weld on brackets.
5. Steering. No need to inspect tie rod or draglink ends. Those synergy ends will last you quite a long time. I have 60k on mine running 37s and they are as good as new. I would however inspect your sector shaft on your steering box for play. I am not a fan of sector shaft braces. If the box is damaged send it to West Texas offroad for a rebuild and I would consider you have them tap it for hydro assist. Best mod I ever did. That will take a lot of stress off the steering box
6. Fixes. I would buy new tires to start and burn those mtrs. Get an alignment asap before installing new tires so you dont **** the new tires up. Replace balljoints before new tires as well. Replace or repair any damaged brackets. With the combination of the new HD steering you just installed and by taking these steps above should fix your handling issues
05-27-2016, 08:02 AM
#9
JK Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Abilene, Texas
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for all the advice! I learn more and more each day from all of you! I will start digging into these issues asap... I'll be back once I have addressed the issues and see if we can get her back to being solid again.
05-27-2016, 08:11 AM
#10
JK Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Abilene, Texas
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets break this down a bit as I believe there are a couple things going on here. First off, your newly installed components are good quality so that will make things easier to fine tune and get your handling where it should be.
1. Lets start with the obvious. You have tires that are notorious for being a bitch to balance. Ask me how I know. The fact that the tires are cupped makes balancing nearly impossible so the speed related shimmy you are getting are from damaged tires most likely.
2. Why are the tires damaged (cupped)? Well you mentioned a bent axle housing but failed to mention where the housing is bent. Some above posters automatically assumed its your axle tubes. Personally im guessing your axle c's are bent which would explain the tire cupping issue and the fact adjustable moog balljoints are installed. Are C gussets welded onto your axle c's?
3. Alignment? Getting your vehicle on an alignment machine is critical here. This will tell you a lot regaridng your possible bent axle (axle C's). The camber on the alignment sheet will be way off if you bent your C's however it may show less with the adjustable balljoints. The other things it will show is your toe and caster. Like I mentioned you have quality compents installed but they need to be dialed in. Let the alignment guys adjust your toe as it is more accurate than doing it in your driveway with a tap measure. Im guessing your caster may need to be further adjusted due to the flighty steering you described (lower control arms need to be lengthened). You want to shoot for 4.2 to 5 degrees of caster depending on how much lift you are running taking your front driveshaft pinion angle into account. Rule of thum is the more lift you are running the less caster you can run to keep a healthy pinion angle. How much lift did you net from those springs? Start with the low 4 degree mark and increase one full turn of the control arm adjuster sleeve at a time until you feel vibrations then back it down a turn.
3. Balljoints. Your moog balljoints may already be toast or will be toast soon. They are not very robust and will fail just as quick as a stock balljoint (again ask me how I know). This will not help handling. Look into more HD balljoints such as dynttrac, synergy, rare parts or even the spicer HD. If your C's are bent and you require adjsutable balljoints to offset negative camber look into the napa gold adjustable balljoints as they are more quality than the moogs.
4. Stock brackets. Inspect the frame side trac bar brackets for ovaling of holes. The axle side brackets are new HD brackets so no need to inspect those. If damaged replace with aftermarket HD or weld grade 8 washers over the holes. Inspect axle side lower front control arm brackets. These brackets are very flimsy and the holes are square. I had a hard hit on the trail and the bolt sawed the squared hole into a rectangle. I cut those shitty brackets off and replaced them with synergy weld on brackets.
5. Steering. No need to inspect tie rod or draglink ends. Those synergy ends will last you quite a long time. I have 60k on mine running 37s and they are as good as new. I would however inspect your sector shaft on your steering box for play. I am not a fan of sector shaft braces. If the box is damaged send it to West Texas offroad for a rebuild and I would consider you have them tap it for hydro assist. Best mod I ever did. That will take a lot of stress off the steering box
6. Fixes. I would buy new tires to start and burn those mtrs. Get an alignment asap before installing new tires so you dont **** the new tires up. Replace balljoints before new tires as well. Replace or repair any damaged brackets. With the combination of the new HD steering you just installed and by taking these steps above should fix your handling issues
1. Lets start with the obvious. You have tires that are notorious for being a bitch to balance. Ask me how I know. The fact that the tires are cupped makes balancing nearly impossible so the speed related shimmy you are getting are from damaged tires most likely.
2. Why are the tires damaged (cupped)? Well you mentioned a bent axle housing but failed to mention where the housing is bent. Some above posters automatically assumed its your axle tubes. Personally im guessing your axle c's are bent which would explain the tire cupping issue and the fact adjustable moog balljoints are installed. Are C gussets welded onto your axle c's?
3. Alignment? Getting your vehicle on an alignment machine is critical here. This will tell you a lot regaridng your possible bent axle (axle C's). The camber on the alignment sheet will be way off if you bent your C's however it may show less with the adjustable balljoints. The other things it will show is your toe and caster. Like I mentioned you have quality compents installed but they need to be dialed in. Let the alignment guys adjust your toe as it is more accurate than doing it in your driveway with a tap measure. Im guessing your caster may need to be further adjusted due to the flighty steering you described (lower control arms need to be lengthened). You want to shoot for 4.2 to 5 degrees of caster depending on how much lift you are running taking your front driveshaft pinion angle into account. Rule of thum is the more lift you are running the less caster you can run to keep a healthy pinion angle. How much lift did you net from those springs? Start with the low 4 degree mark and increase one full turn of the control arm adjuster sleeve at a time until you feel vibrations then back it down a turn.
3. Balljoints. Your moog balljoints may already be toast or will be toast soon. They are not very robust and will fail just as quick as a stock balljoint (again ask me how I know). This will not help handling. Look into more HD balljoints such as dynttrac, synergy, rare parts or even the spicer HD. If your C's are bent and you require adjsutable balljoints to offset negative camber look into the napa gold adjustable balljoints as they are more quality than the moogs.
4. Stock brackets. Inspect the frame side trac bar brackets for ovaling of holes. The axle side brackets are new HD brackets so no need to inspect those. If damaged replace with aftermarket HD or weld grade 8 washers over the holes. Inspect axle side lower front control arm brackets. These brackets are very flimsy and the holes are square. I had a hard hit on the trail and the bolt sawed the squared hole into a rectangle. I cut those shitty brackets off and replaced them with synergy weld on brackets.
5. Steering. No need to inspect tie rod or draglink ends. Those synergy ends will last you quite a long time. I have 60k on mine running 37s and they are as good as new. I would however inspect your sector shaft on your steering box for play. I am not a fan of sector shaft braces. If the box is damaged send it to West Texas offroad for a rebuild and I would consider you have them tap it for hydro assist. Best mod I ever did. That will take a lot of stress off the steering box
6. Fixes. I would buy new tires to start and burn those mtrs. Get an alignment asap before installing new tires so you dont **** the new tires up. Replace balljoints before new tires as well. Replace or repair any damaged brackets. With the combination of the new HD steering you just installed and by taking these steps above should fix your handling issues
Wow, that's alot of info. Thanks for spending the time to write such a good reply! I'm not sure where the axle housing was actually bent, I took it to WTO when I first had the DW, and they are the ones that recommended the moog balljoints, as well as the adj LCA's. They are also the ones that installed all the other items, and never mentioned anything about the holes being worn or anything of the sort. I will however double check everything as you suggested and see if I can't get things ironed out. I'm wanting tires because as you stated, i'm 99% sure that is atleast one of my issues, however funds are kinda tight right now. I'll let you know how things turned out Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!