Ham Radio Install
 

Hams & Hammett's,

I need some help. My Yaesu 7800 Dual band just arrived. I will be installing it under the driver's seat with the remote head to be installed over the rear view mirror. Power from the battery and ground from the engine compartment. So far so good. What has me stumped is where to install the antenna. It will be a Larsen half wave length dual band. The connecting hardware is 3/4 inch which makes it difficult to install between the spare tire and tailgate which is where I have my CB antenna installed. I looked at magnetic mounts for the hood, which looked strange and lip mounts that can also be attached to the back of the hood, but they all look strange with the antenna in the front of the vehicle. Larsen also makes a "glass to glass" mount that can be used on any window except the windshield. There is some question about the performance of this type of mount. The next class of mount involves drilling a 3/4 inch hole into the fiberglass top, which also leaves me cold. Bottom line, what type of antennas are you all using and where do you have them installed? Many thanks for your time. KI6VBQ

I'm not sure how long your antenna is, but I have one mounted to the front bumper (mag mount, Schrockworks Mid) on the passenger side. Looks cool (I think), is not in the way and trees do not hit it. Mine is short (no name brand), however.

Front bumper mount is pretty common in Australia - most ARB bumpers have two holes for them on top of the grille guard tube.

Hey Guy........First off let me say......Congrats on the new toy...!!!:ya: Nothin' like a new HAM radio to make you feel like a kid on Christmas again...lol:thumbsup: btw, the Larson is a real good antenna.

First off.....as far as ground wave is concerned, which is VHF/UHF stuff, even local HF stuff (ie ground wave also), always remember that when placing an antenna on a vehicle, you will tx and rx the best OPPOSITE from the spot you have the antenna. Meaning......if you have the antenna on the back of the rig, you will hear and talk better towards the direction of the front. Likewise....if you place an antenna on the left (drivers) side of a rig, then you will tx and rx the best of the direction pointing to the right. That's why it's always best to get the antenna as close to the middle of the rig as you can....this way it "gets out" in all directions (Omni) as close to evenly as possible.

I know you mentioned cutting a hole in the middle if the hardtop..."leaves you cold", and I understand, but believe it or not, that IS where it would perform the best. I'm sure you could drill a small hole in the roll bar and ground it there. I know you don't want to do this but in my younger days, while striving for the best radio performance we could get, we were all drilling holes in the top of our cars or trucks and placing antennas there. Imagine a 102" stainless whip, whippin' around on top of the cab of an F-250...!!! We found out later that the Wilson 1000 performed pretty much the same as the whip, but with a little lower profile, so that became the antenna of choice. BTW, you can buy a real nice rubber gromet that will make your install look professional and keep the hole water tight.

Anyway......another thing to think about would be a HAM Stick antenna where your CB antenna is now. You could use a two position coax switch and switch between either radio, but you would have to switch stingers (antennas) for whatever rig you would want to use. May not be what you are looking for, but it is and option.

As far as a mag mount goes.....as long as you have a good solid "steel"surface that is well grounded to the rest of the rig, they work just fine. They may not look the best but they do just fine when installed in the right place. Remember, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with placing a few "extra" ground straps between the body and the frame. The more the better.

Just remember......when talking about a mobile antenna, it's all about making sure that where you place it, it will be grounded to the WHOLE vehicle. I mean all the way down to the frame, not just the body, as the steel of the vehicle becomes the "other half" of the antenna. So you want to utilize it as much as you can. If you can do this it will work as good as it possibily can. As far as where you put it...???...just keep in mind....directionality.

Good luck and let us know what you come up with....!!! :thumbsup:

If I were you, I would leave the CB antenna in the rear, and look at the lip or windshield bracket mount for the dual bander. You want the antennas to be as far apart as possible. There are mounts you can use to mount the antenna to the lip underneath where the hood rests, and I have seen ( not for the JK yet) antenna mounts that connect where the windshiled mounting torx are. Keep them as far apart as possible. Ham radios xmit much more power than CBs, and antennas too close together are going to couple, and may destroy the receiver of the radio that is receiving, that you are not using, by overloading it.

Guys,

Some great advice. Several points that I hadn't considered, actually, I didn't know about them. Thanks. KI6VBQ

The antenna is what has stopped me from installing my Yeasu FT-857D I have not seen anything that will look and perform well at the same time:naw:, Keep looking and let us know what you find will be very interested :thumbsup:
KF4ZEL

Well, I just returned from a breakfast sponsored by our local HAM club, EARS,
aka the Escondido Amateur Radio Society. One of the members is a fellow JK'er and has my exact radio, Yaesu 7800, installed in his JK. He says that he regularly works repeaters 60 to 80 miles away and has never been out of range of a repeater in SoCal. Best of all, he is using the antenna I have, the Larsen dual band half wave length. I couldn't wait to see his installation and after the breakfast we went out into the parking lot to see his rig. The radio was installed under the driver's seat and he had remoted the head to the top center of the dash. So far, so good. However, the antenna was installed on the passenger's side of the front of the hood via a lip mount. Technically sound with excellent performance, but I couldn't get by the appearance. His CB antenna was installed on the spare tire mount and he said that he had never experienced interference on either radio. So, we know of one location to install a half wave length antenna that will provide excellent performance.
Is it form follows function -or- function follows form? Back to the drawing board. I want it all - good performance without distracting from the lines of the vehicle. Silly me.

Of course with an all mode/all band radio like yours, as far as mobile performance goes nothing can touch a screwdriver antenna......IF, (and it's a big IF for sure) you can afford one, and IF you don't mind the size. They are fantastic antennas but it's been very hard for me to get past the size of the darn things.

Another option, like I posted above are the "Ham Stick" antennas. Check them out here: http://www.hamstick.com/9106.htm

And to hear what others have to say about them go here:
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/19

Ham Sticks are a very strong low profile antenna. And the best part they are pretty inexpensive. As far as performance goes, pretty much the only difference between running a Ham Stick over a screwdriver antenna would be that when you want to change bands, you'd have to stop the vehicle and physically change the stinger.

A good friend of mine in Santa Barbara CA. did not have a 40m antenna for his base in the shack. But he did have a 40m Ham Stick hooked up to his van in his driveway. We were able to have a very nice qso one evening on 40m.....him in his van in his driveway in CA. and me on my base in Alaska. It was very good conditions that night, and you can't expect that all the time. But it is a great way to get into some good coms, at a pretty affordable price.
It would at least be something to get you on the air asap, while possibily thinking about another option down the road.

73 and Good Luck......

Thanks for the info My friends use the screwdriver antennas NOT FO ME:eek2: if That was the only thing to use I Would not have a mobile at all, The hamstick sounds more like my stile I will check them out. I hang on 2m most of the time. Still need to upgrad my license gives me more time to think and the radio makes a great base staiton.:thumbsup:

I've had success mounting an antenna to a METAL off road light windshield mount. With some looking, I found a CB and a Ham antenna that looked close enough alike in thickness and length. One on each side looks "balanced".
Dave
KC9LEM

Yaesu makes good radios that hold up well in mobiles.
I have a Larsen dual band with a NMO mount installed using a mount from
http://www.arizonarockyroad.com/ and I am pretty happy with the looks and performance.

N4XGI

Jeff,

Which mount are you using and are you running a CB at the same time?
KI6VBQ

Was looking at the link.....The single mounts all look pretty good. I myself would stay away from the double mounts. Antennas in too close proximity to each other can, and do, interact causing high swr.

If you can find one, the Yaesu FT-90 works great with a nice small footprint and plenty of access to bandwidth. Little bit bigger and thicker than a cigarette pack and the face is detachable. Nice for bikes and a small interior like our JK's.

mag mount
 

Well when I snapped the wire on the cb ant. I put my ham radio in, I just removed the top of old cb ant and place my mag mount right on the sparre tire mount it works great very low swr

Bill / N2YQC

I have dual mounts. See the picture.

I run ham hf 7/14/21/28/50 Mhz and 144/440 Mhz.

http://my.project-jk.com/showphoto.php?photo=32759


My SO239 mount HF ATAS-100 antenna tunes up fine for what it is. It has a machined mount for a small ground radial that seems to help.
The MNO mount Larsen dual band 2M/70cm works well since it clears the hardtop.
A shorter vhf antenna would not tune. Both work better with the top off or with the soft top.

With antennas so close together, a lot has to do with how close the freqs. are to one another as to how well it tunes....ie 144meg/70cm is a long way from hf. so that's probably why it's not interacting. Now 11m and 10 meter antennas that close together may be a different story. Also, what you might end up finding out is that somewhere on your HF antenna, there may be a harmonic with the 2/70 that could cause you to have a hard time tuning up, or the VHF antenna may actually radiate and enhance the signal. I'm sure there is a formula you could look at, but to randomly find out where that is would be a shot in the dark. Hey.....you know what they say....TRY IT. Some antennas don't model well and they work great, others do model well and suck. You just never know until you actually have them up there and give it a go.

Oh and running power can make a big difference too with 2 antennas close to each other. Operating barefoot and things may work fine, but add 500 to 1500 watts and things can get real crazy in a hurry.

Anyway....glad yours are working for you. :thumbsup:

73....

More Research
 

I contacted the antenna expert at the Ham Club I belong to. Here is his analysis.
- The problem: Installing a 4W CB Firestick antenna on the rear tire rack of an 08 Jeep Unlimited and then installing a 50W dual band Larsen (2 meter/70cm) antenna approximately 8" away.
- Possible technical problems:
-- Harmonics, the 5th harmonic of 27 MHz is about 135 MHz. Shouldn't be a problem with the low power levels being used. Should be no problem or damage caused to the transceivers.
-- Due to the closeness of the antennas they might detune each other causing SWR problems.
-- Also, the closeness may cause the antennas to become more directional
than they would be via single antenna installation.
-- An antenna analyzer can detect either of the last two problems noted.

Bottom line: He felt that due to the low power levels involved that it would take a good deal of time for any antenna problems to develop if none were not detected immediately at system installation and test.

Questions or Comments? KI6VBQ

RR........somewhat what I thought. I actually was thinking about directionality also. See that's why they put reflectors and directors (elements) in front of and behind the driven element, on yagi antennas. It causes them to have more front to back, meaning hearing better from where it's pointed, as well as rejecting signals off the back. The more elements that are placed in front of the driven element, the more the antenna becomes more "lazer" like. Also enhancing your signal bigtime. For those of you that plan on getting a base station up and running someday. ALWAYS try and get as good an antenna as you can. A good antenna will play better than a lousy antenna with an amp. So you can imagine a good antenna to start with THEN adding an amp....:thumbsup:

Your setup sounds similar to mine except reversed. I'm just going to leave the CB antenna in the "trunk" since I don't use it unless needed on trail or in caravan.

Sort of off topic but:
Since I'm as new as you are to the HAM stuff I thought you may find this interesting outdooradventureusa.net they are a HAM / offroad group here in SoCal. Word is they run a net thursday at 7:30p on the Keller Peak Repeater 146.385+ 146.2 that you may be able to hit or on EchoLink KE6TZG-L I've not listened to the net but will do so on Thursday night.

dave

I had three friends with FT-90's and all had problems, they are known for a squelch problem and for having heat related problems as well..All three sent the radio back to the factory for repairs and eventually sold them.. :what?:

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/75?page=1

N2MWL

Yeah, I've read about those issues. I guess I was lucky as I've had mine forever and it's been nothing but good to me. Go figure! Just the right size for a Jeep so I took a chance and bought a used one for $150 at a Ham Jam.

Ok.....I've been a HAM since 96'...What exactly is a "Ham Jam"?...cause this is a first for me. Is it just another name for a flea market or swap-n-shop?
73.....

Basically yes. Around here there are "Ham Jams" a few times a year where we try to get ESDA and the like to get the word out on the Ham hobby. Let kids play with rigs and the like. Lost of selling, buying, etc... So yes, a glorified flea market with some public outreach and such - not a contest or anything.

my set up:
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-...65902_1225.jpg

If you can see it. the antenna is mounted just below the hood on the drivers side. When i went to buy my mount for it, they were out of flat mounts. So took a angled one and bent it flat with a 2x4 and works just fine.

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-...65891_7292.jpg

So far im loving it. Im wishing it had AM. i go to an aviation school and deal alot with pilots. it would be nice if i could talk as well as hear them.

I used to have an aircraft band radio that altho it was a mobile (a large older one) I used it as a base here at the qth when I was a guide and was in contact with the bush pilots. I used it with my 10 element 2m Yagi. I could hear real well with it, and actually did talk on it too, but with the yagi tuned to 2m, tx'ing was "iffy".

You might think about a Yaesu, Icom, or King airband handheld, or look on ebay for a used aircraft radio. You could use a two position coax switch and switch between radios and "May" be able to use the same antenna. Altho the air band is a bit away from 144 meg, you may be able to adjust the stinger for a "happy medium" in the swr department for both 144 and 120 meg, and still still use the one antenna. Unfortunately vhf is pretty touchy as far as swr and coax loss is concerned, so if it won't tune up, they do make a little VHF tuner that isn't that expensive. That would deffinately make the set up work. If I recall either MFJ or Vectronics makes the tuner.

Oh, and if you do like the handheld idea, you can also put an antenna adaptor in place of the rubber ducky antenna to again use your antenna with the handheld. If I recall, handhelds are a bit more forgiving (swr) as far as antennas go.

Just some things to think about.....

Good Luck.....

For Shadowpro-jk
 

I like your Yaesu 7800 installation location. Is that the entire radio or just the face plate?

Desert Fox,

Did you ever get your Yaesu 7800 installed ? Looking into the same Radio, how do you like it ?

I just wish it had a Green face, rather than Red...

For Boots
 

Boots,

I just walked in the house from the garage where I was under the JK trying to figure out how to install the 7800 radio body under the driver's seat.
Looking at it from under the JK, it doesn't look all that easy. You have to deal with heat insulation, the exhaust pipe and a cross member. But others have done it and it seems to work out fine. Maybe just use a few sheet metal screws and hope for the best. I tend to use stainless steel nuts and bolts but maybe that's too hard for this installation. I have a fellow Ham here in Escondido who has the same installation so I can always contact him for professional advice. He is on this board as "One Leg"

Anyway, I spent this week getting my Yaesu VX-6 Handy Talkie up and running and I really like it. It's not all that easy to program, in fact it's down right difficult. But I got some assistance and it's up and running now. It's a 2 meter/70cm dual band with 5 Watts out. The unit is the size of a pack of cigarettes with a "rubber ducky" antenna and they can hear me all over town and I'm using reduced power. I'm impressed.

So starting tomorrow, it's time to install the 7800 in the JK. I'll post my progress on this board & string.

KI6VBQ

Desert Fox, I will be very interested in your installation.
I've got an Icom IC-92AD handheld, these HTs are difficult to program, fortunately I have the RS-92 software for mine, but their performance is stunning.

Not legally, but keep the power down and who'd know or care.

For MattC
 

Matt,

- The CB radio frequency range is 26.965 MHz to 27.405 MHz

- Hams are authorized to operate above and below that frequency range,
because the FCC has authorized those frequencies for exclusively for Citizen
Band use.

- That being said, many Ham radios that operate in the 10 to 12 Meter range
will include the CB frequencies, but are not to be used by Hams. But they
could be used if the Ham lowered his power to 5 Watts.

- Ham radios are far more expensive than CB radios and are far more
complicated to program and use. A typical CB transceiver will cost between
$50 and $100, while a mobile Ham unit will typically cost between $250 and
$600, depending on the make and frequency bands offered.

- If you would like more information on becoming a Ham, please send me a PM.

KI6VBQ (aka Desert Fox)

Just to add my two cents, as Desert Fox indicated, there really are not any easy or even "legal" solutions for HAM + CB radio use, but the good news is that it is really easy to have both. I have two ham radios and one CB radio installed in my jeep! :)

For anyone that is interested in expanding their communications capability beyond simple "trail talk", I strongly encourage you to look into amateur radio (aka ham radio). There are several threads on this forum with info on how to get started. It is a simple test (all the questions and answers are published), and a $15 fee for a 10-year license.

The nice thing about a quality mobile HAM setup is that you're never out of range PERIOD.
My handheld 5 watt ICOM has impressive range for such low power and I was thinking about just getting an external antenna for use in the Jeep untill the elusive funds for an IC-706/7000 and antenna setup might become available.

A friend made the suggestion that rather than get another radio for the Jeep, get an antenna and a 300 watt amplifier and just plug the ICOM into that.

Any of you guys tried that approach?

Yep, for a while before I installed a Kenwood D710 I simply used my Yaesu VX-7R handheld powered from the cig lighter and connected to a mounted dual-band antenna. No need for an amplifier in my case since the db gain of the antenna provided plenty of power even on 5 watt (also nice that around Denver we have lots of mountain top repeaters).

My trail buddy still has that setup. Simple handled with mounted antenna. Speaker-mic on the handheld to make it easy to communicate with.

By the way, if you're considering an IC-706/7000 setup, might take a look at the Kenwood. With built-in APRS it really enhances your capability. My wife loves the fact she can see my exact location on a map on the internet when I'm out wheeling. We'll even use APRSLink to send text messages back and forth when I'm out on the trail all day and out of cell phone coverage.

:thinking: Is this a good or bad capability? I'm seeing something along these lines: :blahblah::blahblah::tantrum:

For CJK
 

At present, my friends who have the APRS (Automatic Position Reporting System) are guys who are volunteers on Search and Rescue teams, where keeping track of each other is important. This is not a cheap capability, as it requires a ham radio with a compatible GPS unit. If the Jeeps are not in line of sight distance, they must relay through a repeater that has the APRS capability
too. At present, not all that many repeaters are APRS capable. Then, the person(s) receiving the APRS data must also have compatible equipment. Yes, the output product can be linked and displayed on a standard laptop. I suggest that you go online and do some Ham/APRS/GPS research. All users would have to be FCC Ham licensed. Bottom line, yes it is a good capability.

Hey Fox...
 

Just kidding. I'm shopping used D700's and working on getting set up to take the test. I like the idea of the GPS capability and intend to volunteer for SAR and emergency situations. I'm sure my wife will appreciate it for my fun trips as well but I'm still trying to get over her experience (lack of) with my hand-held marine VHF in the Bahamas. The boat I rented already had a VHF so I handed her mine and after some quick instructions (sun was already overhead so her processing capabilities were suspect) I went out fishing. By the time I got back within range of the bar, the bartender had taken custody of my hand-held and called off the search :rotflmao2::rotflmao2: Her only communication device is a cell phone!! At least with the D700 she'll be limited to text only - I believe she can handle that!

Aprs
 

CJK - good news is I can turn off the APRS when I don't want my wife to know where I am. Ooops... did I just admit that?? APRS is a pretty cool technology. Check out my favorite APRS sites: aprs.fi and openaprs.net

Desert Fox, in the Denver area where I live, we have TONS of digipeaters (repeaters for packet data such as APRS), including many mobiles that digipeat (a pet peve of mine... I wish that wouldn't, but that is another subject). Combine that with mounain top repeaters and folks that simply have some pretty big antennas on the mountains, there pretty much isn't a place along the front range where, with the right path configured, your packet isn't going to make it onto the Internet. We're pretty well covered, it's cool to be in Colorado. :clap:

I'm a big fan of APRS. As a member of our local ARES group (Amateur Radio Emergency Services), it is super useful when we're activated to support the Sheriff's office for various reasons (weather spotting, forest fire, winter weather, etc.) The great thing about the Kenwood D710 is that it has the APRS TNC built in. It is an expensive rig, about $500, but you can add a $50 GPS to it and you're good to go.

As Desert Fox said, you gotta be licensed to use this stuff. But if communications is an interest to you, check it out!

MileHigh, what's a good dual band antenna setup for the Jeep to be used in the same fashon (with the IC-92AD).

I would like to mount a dual band to the antenna mount made into the FabFour rear tire carrier, but that might be a height problem depending on the antenna. Permanently mounting it somewhere else would not be a problem as long as the height requirement (not taller overall than the stock radio antenna) was maintained. The world's best antenna wouldn't do much good if you have ripped it off on the trail or at the parking garage!
My other antenna setup is the CoolTac CB antenna mount at the license plate with a 3" Firestick for use with my Galaxy 939 CB.

I have the HM-175GPS speaker microphone with GPS receiver which can be clipped anywhere convenient to use. With a simple angle bracket mounted to the console or dash, the HT could be attached with the belt clip. I have the CP-12L for running the unit off the cigarette socket.

Many thanks for any reply.

Edwin