Full Rockford Fosgate sound system - asking for thoughts/comments
03-01-2013, 06:35 AM
#21
Super Moderator
Why would you say this to his Question?
Your comment (It certainly sounds like you have no idea about the differences between a coax and a component speaker system and in which instances you would choose to use one over the other.)
To his post (This is the only part that won't look stock, as the tweeters will need to be surface mounted in the rear - or is it better to just do a coax in the bar and forget the component setup? I thought the components were supposed to sound better)
He said Tweeters will need to be........(that means this isn't a Coax Speaker) He said: or is it better to do a Coax in the Soundbar (that means use the Coax speaker which has the Woofer, tweeter, Loudspeaker, Mid-Range or similar) which is what Coax is, A speaker that combines these and a Component Speaker is Tweeter separate, Woofer/loudspeaker/Mid-range is Separate.
And Yes the Component Systems are a better choice, in sound, quality, but more Expensive.
So how does that make him sound like his has no Idea of the two systems. What is your reason to choose one over the other?
Your comment (It certainly sounds like you have no idea about the differences between a coax and a component speaker system and in which instances you would choose to use one over the other.)
To his post (This is the only part that won't look stock, as the tweeters will need to be surface mounted in the rear - or is it better to just do a coax in the bar and forget the component setup? I thought the components were supposed to sound better)
He said Tweeters will need to be........(that means this isn't a Coax Speaker) He said: or is it better to do a Coax in the Soundbar (that means use the Coax speaker which has the Woofer, tweeter, Loudspeaker, Mid-Range or similar) which is what Coax is, A speaker that combines these and a Component Speaker is Tweeter separate, Woofer/loudspeaker/Mid-range is Separate.
And Yes the Component Systems are a better choice, in sound, quality, but more Expensive.
So how does that make him sound like his has no Idea of the two systems. What is your reason to choose one over the other?
Ok, he said "Aren't components supposed to sound better?" Yes, it's a dumb question by someone who is an "A/V consultant", because it depends on the "Application" if components sound better or not and isn't that what "A/V Consultants" do? They specialize in Audio and Video Applications? So yes, for anyone claiming to be an A/V consultant and then posting and bragging about certificates in that field while at the same time asking an "Application" type questions, I deem that as a pretty dumb question from someone bragging about their knowledge in being an "A/V consultant". These are people who should be answering these types of questions, not asking them. Using a component speaker setup does not make it automatically sound better than a coax. Yes, they're more expensive because they are separate components which increases the costs. How many speaker designs have you done in your life-time? I've done quite a few, so I know the difference in costs, design, functionality, advantages/disadvantages. It's what I do as an "Audio Systems Design Engineer". In fact in the application he is asking about, "mounting them in the sound bar" can actually make components sound worse than a Coax.
Components are not automatically a "better choice" in sound quality. It depends on the application that they are being used in, where Coax speakers can actually sound better than a component system depending on the particular application. Using Coax's in the sound bar "Application" actually has a few advantages over a component system in that same application and if you knew anything about "phase relationships" of using multiple speakers maybe you would be able to understand those advantages. An "A/V consultant" "should" know something about phase relationships when installing multiple speakers. After all, they do install multiple speakers in their systems don't they? He should also know something about "staging" and "imaging". These are all "Audio" terms which are NOT specific to a vehicle or a non vehicle setup applications. So take your vehicle nonsense differences B.S. out of here. There are differences in a vehicle, but the things I'm pointing out are NOT vehicle related differences. There is nothing different in a home application or a car application when it comes to multiple speaker setup phase relations. ALL of this is PHYSICS, and if you knew a damn thing about the "Physics" of audio, which it's very apparent that you don't, then you wouldn't be dragging this thread up and getting on my ass.
When you tinkers start designing audio systems like the one I have linked below and have been trained by audiophiles with Doctorate degrees in the physics of audio and who have been in charge of setting up elite orchestra halls and some of the best systems in night clubs:
http://translogic.aolautos.com/2011/...-audio-system/
Then come start preaching to me about the differences between Components and Coax speakers and coming at me with your sarcastic comments like this 'Rockford Fosgate is the inventor of that device that makes your music louder and many other tech features that Jim Fosgate.' That's amateur bull sh*t you're talking to me about.
Maybe you need to Learn a little more. There is quite alot of things different in the Residential A/V compared to the Auto A/V areas. Many many Differences that really seem like a waste of time to explain to you. Rockford Fosgate is the inventor of that device that makes your music louder and many other tech features that Jim Fosgate. Nissan has used Rockford Fosgate name for many years now to Title their complete system, even though RF doesn't do the Head Unit.
Last edited by Rednroll; 03-01-2013 at 06:59 AM.
03-01-2013, 06:59 AM
#22
So now you want me to explain to you about why it's a dumb question?
Ok, he said "Aren't components supposed to sound better?" Yes, it's a dumb question by someone who is an "A/V consultant", because it depends on the "Application" if components sound better or not and isn't that what "A/V Consultants" do? They specialize in Audio and Video Applications? So yes, for anyone claiming to be an A/V consultant and then posting and bragging about certificates in that field while at the same time asking an "Application" type questions, I deem that as a pretty dumb question from someone bragging about their knowledge in being an "A/V consultant". These are people who should be answering these types of questions, not asking them. Using a component speaker setup does not make it automatically sound better than a coax. Yes, they're more expensive because they are separate components which increases the costs. How many speaker designs have you done in your life-time? I've done quite a few, so I know the difference in costs, design, functionality, advantages/disadvantages. It's what I do as an "Audio Systems Design Engineer". In fact in the application he is asking about, "mounting them in the sound bar" can actually make components sound worse than a Coax.
Components are not automatically a "better choice" in sound quality. It depends on the application that they are being used in, where Coax speakers can actually sound better than a component system depending on the particular application. Using Coax's in the sound bar "Application" actually has a few advantages over a component system in that same application and if you knew anything about "phase relationships" of using multiple speakers maybe you would be able to understand those advantages. An "A/V consultant" "should" know something about phase relationships when installing multiple speakers. After all, they do install multiple speakers in their systems don't they? He should also know something about "staging" and "imaging". These are all "Audio" terms which are NOT specific to a vehicle or a non vehicle setup applications. So take your vehicle nonsense differences B.S. out of here. There are differences in a vehicle, but the things I'm pointing out are NOT vehicle related differences. There is nothing different in a home application or a car application when it comes to multiple speaker setup phase relations. ALL of this is PHYSICS, and if you knew a damn thing about the "Physics" of audio, which it's very apparent that you don't, then you wouldn't be dragging this thread up and getting on my ass.
Ok, he said "Aren't components supposed to sound better?" Yes, it's a dumb question by someone who is an "A/V consultant", because it depends on the "Application" if components sound better or not and isn't that what "A/V Consultants" do? They specialize in Audio and Video Applications? So yes, for anyone claiming to be an A/V consultant and then posting and bragging about certificates in that field while at the same time asking an "Application" type questions, I deem that as a pretty dumb question from someone bragging about their knowledge in being an "A/V consultant". These are people who should be answering these types of questions, not asking them. Using a component speaker setup does not make it automatically sound better than a coax. Yes, they're more expensive because they are separate components which increases the costs. How many speaker designs have you done in your life-time? I've done quite a few, so I know the difference in costs, design, functionality, advantages/disadvantages. It's what I do as an "Audio Systems Design Engineer". In fact in the application he is asking about, "mounting them in the sound bar" can actually make components sound worse than a Coax.
Components are not automatically a "better choice" in sound quality. It depends on the application that they are being used in, where Coax speakers can actually sound better than a component system depending on the particular application. Using Coax's in the sound bar "Application" actually has a few advantages over a component system in that same application and if you knew anything about "phase relationships" of using multiple speakers maybe you would be able to understand those advantages. An "A/V consultant" "should" know something about phase relationships when installing multiple speakers. After all, they do install multiple speakers in their systems don't they? He should also know something about "staging" and "imaging". These are all "Audio" terms which are NOT specific to a vehicle or a non vehicle setup applications. So take your vehicle nonsense differences B.S. out of here. There are differences in a vehicle, but the things I'm pointing out are NOT vehicle related differences. There is nothing different in a home application or a car application when it comes to multiple speaker setup phase relations. ALL of this is PHYSICS, and if you knew a damn thing about the "Physics" of audio, which it's very apparent that you don't, then you wouldn't be dragging this thread up and getting on my ass.
How many years have you done Automotive Sound????
If you knew anything, there is a difference in the two and what equipment is called between the two.....
So if i was to say, what Multichannel do I need, what am I asking and what area(Auto or Home)
03-01-2013, 07:01 AM
#23
Super Moderator
How many years have you done Residential Installation on ....well Anything????
How many years have you done Automotive Sound????
If you knew anything, there is a difference in the two and what equipment is called between the two.....
So if i was to say, what Multichannel do I need, what am I asking and what area(Auto or Home)
How many years have you done Automotive Sound????
If you knew anything, there is a difference in the two and what equipment is called between the two.....
So if i was to say, what Multichannel do I need, what am I asking and what area(Auto or Home)
I've done both for over 20 years. I work for the largest audio manufacturing/design company in the world that does both. I work on millions of dollars audio system developments
Last edited by Rednroll; 03-01-2013 at 07:14 AM.
03-01-2013, 07:08 AM
#24
Super Moderator
How many years have you done Residential Installation on ....well Anything????
How many years have you done Automotive Sound????
If you knew anything, there is a difference in the two and what equipment is called between the two.....
So if i was to say, what Multichannel do I need, what am I asking and what area(Auto or Home)
How many years have you done Automotive Sound????
If you knew anything, there is a difference in the two and what equipment is called between the two.....
So if i was to say, what Multichannel do I need, what am I asking and what area(Auto or Home)
Dahreno: I have a residential and commercial AV consulting business. And I've been dabbling in car and marine audio for 20 years. My questions are more jeep specific than anything else. This is my first Wrangler, so I was hoping for feedback from the Rockford loyalists. But I'm always open to advice.
So what is your background now, Mr. Rockford Fosgate amplifier installer?
Last edited by Rednroll; 03-01-2013 at 07:15 AM.
03-01-2013, 07:18 AM
#25
Multi Speaker interaction physics. The laws of "Physics" don't change if you're in a car or in a theater.
I've done both for over 20 years. I work for the largest audio manufacturing/design company in the world that does both. I work on millions of dollars audio system developments
I've done both for over 20 years. I work for the largest audio manufacturing/design company in the world that does both. I work on millions of dollars audio system developments
You do this to people on here, you try and put them down, when he had a simple request for opinions and you ripped him one.....
03-01-2013, 07:21 AM
#26
To your same point.....here's his reply.
His "questions are more Jeep specific"? No...the questions, I pointed out are more "Audio Specific" in regards to "Applications". Isn't he the one who pointed out he doesn't need expert advise in his Jeep, due to his "A/V Consultant business." So, why aren't you correcting him with all these differences you're preaching to me about?
So what is your background now, Mr. Rockford Fosgate amplifier installer?
His "questions are more Jeep specific"? No...the questions, I pointed out are more "Audio Specific" in regards to "Applications". Isn't he the one who pointed out he doesn't need expert advise in his Jeep, due to his "A/V Consultant business." So, why aren't you correcting him with all these differences you're preaching to me about?
So what is your background now, Mr. Rockford Fosgate amplifier installer?
Please show us where you get those words (Isn't he the one who pointed out he doesn't need expert advise in his Jeep) out of his words (Guys- I have access to Rockford Fosgate equipment at a better price than retail. Therefore, I am going to go all Rockford. I want to keep it as stock looking as possible. Here's what I'm thinking; any thoughts/comments
Looks like he's asking, not telling
03-01-2013, 12:34 PM
#27
JK Super Freak
Yep, I definitely understand that. On that same note however, when he dismissed someone else's advise earlier based upon being an AV Consultant, is the reason why I decided to point these things out. I have to guess you missed that part of the discussion????
I would have to also think when someone boosts about being an "AV Consultant" and not needing to seek outside expert advise as dahreno suggested and dismisses that advise based upon being an "AV Consultant", and asks a question like "Any comments on whether you think this setup will sound good?", where he should damn well know better that no one could give him a definitive or conclusive answer. Really though??? Did you see anyone answer that question? No!!! and an AV Consultant should know better, because for anyone to be able to answer that question they would have to have the EXACT same components, starting with the audio source to finish. They would have to have the same exact wiring, head unit, amps, speakers, gain stage settings, 2 door or 4 door JKU...etc....etc. These are ALL things that will determine how the individual components will sound and an AV Consultant who is bragging about being some Sonos Gold Member should know that because it is the EXACT same scenario when installing a system inside of a non automotive environment......such as he says he does.
So while you're defending him for not knowing the technical differences of installing an audio system in a home vs. a vehicle, he's the one justifying that he doesn't need expert advise for an automotive install based upon that same reasoning. That was my premise for harassing him because they are vastly different.
P.S. Good post on the component vs. Coaxial differences. I'm sure he'll appreciate that information since he definitely didn't previously understand it. Maybe you could further elaborate about the Phase relationships of these 2 types of speakers also for him, because I would have to assume that someone who is an "AV Consultant" with a Gold Member Sonos certificate who installs multiple speakers in venues would at least know something about phase relationship concerns when installing multiple speakers in those system setups. Or are you going to tell me, there are no phase comb filtering concerns in those non automotive installs also?
And I'll bet the OP ain't hookin' up red to red, black to black, he doesn't strike me as someone who splices wiring instead of doing it proper, though the fact that you brought it up tells me you might.
Either learn to give good/proper feedback, read but don't post or admit your goal is to dump on people and try to prove you are somehow better than them. Complaining about his question about components vs co-axial drivers and not explaining the pros and cons of each is a cop out, unless you don't understand imaging, phasing, space limitations, blockage etc that go into the decision making process. Same with the rest of your arguments, you did however achieve one of your goals, this reply.
03-01-2013, 02:16 PM
#28
Super Moderator
I stopped reading after this do forgive me if anyone else brought this up. Knowing how sound systems are designed from both an audio and physics point of view, I know and understand my limitations. When designing a system for a new box (car, house, amphitheater, computer room) the spatial dynamics are always an unknown (unless you have done this specific 'box' previously). From reflectivity, to phasing it is ALWAYS a learning experience with a new target area. I will always ask for advice on how other systems responded to a like environment to help plan my systems and even then will need a lot of analysis time to perfect the system to the acoustical properties of the 'box'.
And I'll bet the OP ain't hookin' up red to red, black to black, he doesn't strike me as someone who splices wiring instead of doing it proper, though the fact that you brought it up tells me you might.
Either learn to give good/proper feedback, read but don't post or admit your goal is to dump on people and try to prove you are somehow better than them. Complaining about his question about components vs co-axial drivers and not explaining the pros and cons of each is a cop out, unless you don't understand imaging, phasing, space limitations, blockage etc that go into the decision making process. Same with the rest of your arguments, you did however achieve one of your goals, this reply.
And I'll bet the OP ain't hookin' up red to red, black to black, he doesn't strike me as someone who splices wiring instead of doing it proper, though the fact that you brought it up tells me you might.
Either learn to give good/proper feedback, read but don't post or admit your goal is to dump on people and try to prove you are somehow better than them. Complaining about his question about components vs co-axial drivers and not explaining the pros and cons of each is a cop out, unless you don't understand imaging, phasing, space limitations, blockage etc that go into the decision making process. Same with the rest of your arguments, you did however achieve one of your goals, this reply.
Thanks, I'll start by following your example or I'll follow AtlJeepsTer example by replying to a month old thread and stirring up sh*t. Those are the good examples I should follow huh?
Like I said previously and I'll stick to my point. I would be embarrassed to be bringing up not needing certain advise based upon being an "A/V Consultant" and further bragging about certifications while at the same time not knowing the different applications for a component speaker system vs. a coax speaker and making an assumption that a component system automatically means it should sound better.
Last edited by Rednroll; 03-01-2013 at 02:22 PM.
03-01-2013, 02:29 PM
#29
THAT'S original bunch there....LOL.....Rip someone a big one on a little comment he made about himself, A/V guy or not and the Rippers spend this whole thread talking about how they are the Experts.....lol...Classic
Experts who sit in a Forum, Giving away their Expertise and not do what an Expert would really do, well the Smart ones, making money from all that Education....lol
Experts who sit in a Forum, Giving away their Expertise and not do what an Expert would really do, well the Smart ones, making money from all that Education....lol
03-01-2013, 02:32 PM
#30
Super Moderator
THAT'S original bunch there....LOL.....Rip someone a big one on a little comment he made about himself, A/V guy or not and the Rippers spend this whole thread talking about how they are the Experts.....lol...Classic
Experts who sit in a Forum, Giving away their Expertise and not do what an Expert would really do, well the Smart ones, making money from all that Education....lol
Experts who sit in a Forum, Giving away their Expertise and not do what an Expert would really do, well the Smart ones, making money from all that Education....lol
Wasn't this your expert self comments before I said anything about what I do?
Maybe you need to Learn a little more. There is quite alot of things different in the Residential A/V compared to the Auto A/V areas. Many many Differences that really seem like a waste of time to explain to you. Rockford Fosgate is the inventor of that device that makes your music louder and many other tech features that Jim Fosgate. Nissan has used Rockford Fosgate name for many years now to Title their complete system, even though RF doesn't do the Head Unit.
Last edited by Rednroll; 03-01-2013 at 03:18 PM.