RedXGirly

As mentioned already....I too am at a loss for why this was posted in this fashion, and not just PM'd to whoever was interested in this video?? And, why you seem to go out of your way to make several stabs at the RE kit in several threads regarding other suspensions??

There will always be differing opinions and bias' regarding most products, but it seems a little unfair for the moderator of this board (someone whose opinion is held in respect to many on the board) to make such negative remarks toward a product he has no first-hand experience with.... Not less to mention, that the creators of said product are not able to defend or discuss the matter in this forum due to no longer being a paying sponsor of the board.

Its funny to me that the debate keeps coming back to "flex", and how great it is, and why a certain suspension configuration is the "best" for having the most "flex". Obviously the general consensus of flex on this board has become how much droop the suspension can achieve.... And, every suspension is compared/graded on how much "flex" it has. What about up-travel? What about the fact that suspension travel is only one of many parts to a proper/great functioning suspension?

I don't think that anyone, including RE obviously, is going to argue that a 4-link configuration is going to out droop a radius arm configuration, assuming all other variables are left out of the equation. But, the major thing that is being overlooked here are those other variables....

Most of the suspension systems available in the 4"+ range (short and long arm) for the JK are intended for up to a 37" tire. That being said, the shock travel, spring travel, bumpstop length, brakelines length, etc. are all the same or similar between each kit. Unless something is wrong with the parts in one particular kit or install, they are all going to "flex" about the same. The obvious beautiful part about the stock JK suspension is that the arms are fairly decent length, allowing for good function and geometry up to a pretty good amount of lift. This definitely does not mean that there are not benefits to a long arm kit. The improved geometry of a well designed long arm kit make for much better(less) torque-steer, pinion angle change, dive, squat/anti-squat, etc. making for a much better driving vehicle on and offroad.

I have had an RE LA on my 4dr for a year-and-a-half, with 37's, and would not have it any other way. Not that any other kit out there is bad, but the handling, balance, "flex", etc. are second to none. I got it with the supplied Bilstein 5100 shocks that allow for roughly 11 inches of travel, which the kit easily uses every inch of. It seems to me that the Kings on Eddie's jeep are 12" travel, meaning that he is only using 1" more than I can.... ORE says you can use a 14" with their kit, but I would assume that would put you at a pretty tall lift height, judging by how low in the wheel well the shock tower sits. My joints/radius arms are nowhere near binding at full droop...I am currently limited by the spring and shock lengths, which are matched very well. I would not hesitate to claim that I could use every bit of travel from 16" coilovers (if I desired to go that route) prior to seeing any binding!

Running coilovers is a separate equation from short arms vs. long arms. Obviously that is best/cleanest way to get more travel from the suspension regardless of link length or configuration. The ramp test would not solve anything, other than that coilovers are really cool! The real test would be which jeep drives nicer getting to the trail, which one feels more stable and balanced on the trail, which one puts the power to the ground better when needed, which one makes less noise, which one has higher quality and longer lasting components, which one's easier to service, etc..... I feel the RE is/has all of those, and that's why I chose it.

I hope all readers realize that not one single person who runs the RE kit has said anything but positive feedback.....the only negative comments are coming from speculation.

Is that so? Ever heard of the XRRA? Search for Josh Murray and/or Rock Ware.... Rock Ware, here in Colorado, builds many rigs/buggies with radius arms with great results. Josh Murray races their chassis in the XRRA, King of the Hammers, etc. There are others too, just none that I know specifically.

My advice to you is to suspend your jeep on stands a few inches above ride height....remove the tires....with a jack under the axle, drop the axle all the way to full droop....use that jack to lift one side until it touches the bumpstop....check your suspension for any binding(which there won't be)....measure the difference between exposed shock shaft from the "stuffed" side to the "drooped" side(this measurement is your travel at one corner)....

Assuming your droop is limited by your shock, which it should be, resupport the axle with the jack and remove the retaining nut on top of one shock and loosen the brake line from the frame on the same side....drop the axle back down and, again, raise the connected side to the bumpstop....the shockless side is going to be lower than before, most likely resting on the ground....now measure how much more droop you're getting by adding the amount that your shock is now unseated by to your original travel....

If you can get to atleast 14" of total "stuff"-"droop" travel before seeing binding, you could definitely benefit from going to coilovers.

Just my .02.

FunWagon

I had a 4.5" long arm on my TJ Rubicon and loved the quality and performance. I know it's not the same type of lift as the JK long arm, but the quality and reliability is absolutely there. I loved it. I would have run the RE on my JK as well in an instant if there was a 4.5" mid arm to fit 37s. The long arm was just out of my price range. My final two choices were Rubicon Express and Clayton.

wayoflife

that's odd, only 8 posts to your name and then all of a sudden this - hmmmm

why you are at a loss is beyond me. clearly, there are a ton of people who are interested in hearing what RE, in their own words have to say about their own product. as for my so called "stabs" at the kit goes, the comments that i've made are nothing more than my opinion and based on what i have seen. if you find them to be "stabs", clearly, that's just your opinion.

i'm sorry but i'm more than just a moderator on this board, i am the owner or it. regarding my opinion, certainly, if in fact it is held in respect by many on ths board, i would hope that it has been earned. as far as my experience with radius arms goes, i think it's a stretch to assume that just because i have not personally wheeled a JK with an RE long arm kit that i do not have any experience with radius arms.

hmmmm, with only 8 posts to your name, i find it hard to imagine how you would know that RE was once a sponsor but is no longer one now. but, that being said, i can't imagine what more they could say being that i had already asked them to respond to much of what is in question back at sema - in case you had forgotten, their comments are what started this conversation in the first place.

oh please, straight up and down, clearly the RE long arm kit has plenty of droop and stuff but when it comes to flex - as in big ass droop on one side and full stuff on the other, you have got to be kidding me - a radius arm design simply cannot compete with a 4-link long arm setup or in my case, a short arm setup with the EVO coilover system.

for a guy that seem to know A WHOLE LOT more than most of the people on here, i'm surprised that we are having this discussion at all. certainly, you sure sound like someone in the industry and should know better than to try to pit a radius arm up against a 4-link setup when it comes to flex.

assuming you play as hard as i do, i would recommend that you check your bushings. BTW - i don't ever recall telling you that my name was Eddie nor do i recall anyone else making mention of it - hmmm, odd.

ummm, for a guy that know as much as you do, i'm a little surprised that you wouldn't know that a coilover system like what off road evolution makes would require new front shock towers to be installed onto the frame and that it would also be ones that raise the upper mounting point enough to allow a much taller shock to be installed. in the rear, they use a cantilever setup which has the longer coilovers to sit horizontally. in other words, more flex without more lift - more flex with a low COG. but hey, unless you had any real experience with a coilover system or a 4-link setup, i guess it would be understandable that all you would be left with are assumptions.

LOL!! please, be my guest and try it. i just hope you're good at changing out bushings

i'm sorry but the EVO coilovers are more than just cool, they are highly functional and kick ass on the trail. as you have just admitted, they are the "best/cleanest way to get more travel from the suspension" but i would beg to differ when it comes to control arm configuration. likewise, i find it ammusing that you would dismiss a ramp test so quickly. also, being that you have NO experience with a 4-link setup or short arms with the EVO flex system, i find it odd that you could actually suggest that it wouldn't drive nicer getting to the trail, that it wouldn't be more stable and balanced on the trail, wouldn't put more power to the ground better when needed, that it wouldn't make less noise, has higher quality and longer lasting components and would be easier to service, etc. obviously, you "feel" that RE has all those qualities as you chose to go with this kit but, clearly, you have no experience with the myriad of 4-link long arm setups available today or a good short arm kit with the EVO flex system. if you had, i don't think you would be making the statments you are now.... or, maybe you would. eitherway, they are your opinion and you are free to have it just like me.

in all my years of jeepin, i have found it rare to hear people talk trash about the lift kit they chose to go with especially when it's as big of an investment as a long arm kit and who could blame them. me, installing lifts and testing them out on the trail is part of what i do for a living. fortunately, i get to go out with members from this forum all the time and they can tell you just how well the TeraFlex short arms and EVO flex system are really working out.

well, it would seem that your understanding of bind is a bit different than mine because based on what i have seen, radius arms will bind right from the get go. the real test would be to do the same with a 4-link setup or a short arm setup with the EVO coilovers. trust me, the side by side comparison would be all that you need to understand where i am coming from but hey, that's just me.

just so there is no misunderstanding here, we are talking about radius arms here. these are essentially massive lower control arms that have tiny extensions that are designed to attach to the upper control arm mounts on the axle and they allow you to adjust your caster/pinion angle. with radius arms, YOU HAVE NO UPPER CONTROL ARMS. so every one can see what i'm talking about, here is a photo of what radius arms look like and to really make the point, here is what they look like detacted from the frame mounts...



as you can see, they are sticking straight out and if you placed your hands on the frame mount joints and tried to move them up and down, you wouldn't be able to. why? because they are fixed in place and the resistance you are feeling IS bind. how you can look at this and and actually come to the conclusion that you would get as good if not better flex than a 4-link setup is beyond me.

you know, i was going to let this one go but since everyone has seemed to miss it, this is what HOMEGLASS quoted from an off road enthusiast magazine...

did you catch that? a STOCK JK scored a 706 on a 20° ramp and the RE long arm kit ONLY scored 776 which this magazine themselves apparently states is ONLY about a 10% improvement.

look, i have said it before and i will say it yet again, the whole reason why this whole thing started in the first place was because i was making the observation that for the cost of the RE long arm kit, it made more sense to just keep my short arms and add the EVO system to my jeep. certainly, i get an astounding amount of flex, have an even better ride than before and did it all for about the same cost as an RE long arm kit. and, if i'm going to sink about $5,000 into my jeep, i personally would hope to get more than a 10% gain in flex over stock - but hey, that's just me. if you like the RE kit and are happy with the 10% gain in flex over stock, fantastic. i really am happy for you. obviously, what i want isn't for everyone nor should it be. and, if you don't like my opinion, you don't have to

BTW, thanks for the fun jason. good bye.

wayoflife

Well, for those of you who are interested, we ran our JK on a ramp last week at Off Road Evolution and with their help and supervision, we were able to get the following scores. Remember, my JK is currently sitting on 37" tires just like the other JK mentioned from the off road enthusiast magazine but has adjustable short arms and the EVO flex system installed.











20° Ramp w/26psi = 1033.47 (46% gain over stock)
20° Ramp w/10psi = 1146.90 (62% gain over stock)

As you can see, on a 20° ramp, we were able to achieve a huge RTI score of 1033.47 (46% gain over stock) with 26psi in our tires and with 10psi, we were able to achieve an amazing RTI score of 1146.90 (62% gain over stock) and all this with just short arms!! Just as a reminder, a stock Rubicon Unlimited scored 706 and according to HOMEGLASS who quoted from an off road enthusiast magazine, a JK Unlimited with an RE long arm kit sitting on 37" tires was only able to score a 776 or just about a 10% gain over stock.

Click on the link below to see the original thread that these RTI scores were posted on:

https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/show...&highlight=rti

So you all know, I have been running the Off Road Evolution EVO front coilovers and rear EVO Lever with TeraFlex adjustable short arms on my JK for a little over a month now. I have driven this extremely comfortable and stable riding JK to and from far away trails, some more than 500 miles away and at speeds of 85 MPH. I have driven it at speeds of up to 60-65 MPH on desert roads and the fine tuned coilovers designed specifically for JK's just soaked up the bumps and provided a smooth ride. And, I have tackled tough rock crawling trails such as Niagara Rim and Bronco Peak with ease thanks to the fact that the stupid crazy flex I now have do such a great job of keeping all four on the floor which in turn offers great traction and even better stability.

Believe what you will but none of this was expected by me when I first decided to run this setup. All this was run as a test to see how things would work out and the results of it have been nothing less than outstanding. And, once again, for the cost, I personally feel it is a much better way to go. Now, does this mean I am taking "stabs" at RE or questioning the quality of their products? NO!! from the very begining, this whole discussion for me has been about FLEX. The RE long arm kit only came into the discussion after I explained that it would be "constrained" (RE's words not mine) by comparison to a 4-link setup or a coilover setup like the EVO flex system. This video was posted by request to back up the fact that RE would be the first to admit as much. These are FACTS and not attacks and for me, these facts matter in how I choose to build up MY Jeep and that's all. How you choose to build up your Jeep is entirely up to you

EDIT: please note that several posts and responses made subsequent to this have been removed upon the request of the OP.

jeepik

why dont you just close and remove this thread, as its obviously not getting anywhere and is getting way more exposure then it should

wayoflife

with the exception of you bringing this post back up to the surface, i fail to see how it was getting "way more exposure then it should" nor do i understand how you can determine what "way more exposure then it should", is. certainly, the last time i looked, this thread had disappeared to page 3. if you want it to have less exposure, perhaps you should refrain from posting on it.