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[QUOTE=ChryslerChris;2508528]Whole lotta complaining going on here on these boards about the JK sucking, not being a good enough offroader, Chrysler sucking, Chrysler quality sucking, Chrysler not knowing what the Jeep customer wants :blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:

Yeah......some people just have to complain. There is always something they will find not to be happy about. :doh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChryslerChris (Post 2508528)

Whole lotta complaining going on here on these boards about the JK sucking, not being a good enough offroader, Chrysler sucking, Chrysler quality sucking, Chrysler not knowing what the Jeep customer wants :blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:

So I figured, for North America at least, let's round up what off-roading vehicles are currently being manufactured by Chrysler, followed by other OEM's...

Chrysler - the Jeep JK, Gran Cherokee, Liberty, trail-rated Compass, and on the Dodge side, the new 2012 Ram Power Wagon (repleat with Warn winch, offroad tires and electronic sway bar discos)

Toyota - FJ cruiser, Tacoma TRD package

Nissan - Xterra

GM - used to be Hummer, but now, nothing.

Ford - zippo

Honda - nada

Hyundai/Kai - LOL. nope.

Porcshe - no, Cayenne doesn't count :D

Audi - no

VW - again no

Mercedes - some will agrue the G-wagon but I say no

I might have missed a few, and feel free to complete my list, but my point is before you bite the hand that feeds you and bitch up a storm about how lousy Chrysler is about supporting or building our Jeeps, bear in mind they have an entire Brand dedicated to off-roading, an actual evaulation to class their vehicles "trail rated", an expensive but good aftermarket department in Mopar that offers everything from bumpers to lift kits, and engineers who actually drive the Jeeps they design.

The only complaining is coming from you. You need to start a forum called webwheelers.com. You left out some legendary "offroaders" in your list. Ever heard of the Hilux, Unimog, Landcruiser, etc etc. Ever heard of the Ford Raptor. You obviously do not know what offroading is. It can mean anything from prerunning to hard core rock crawling. Personally I dont give a shit what anybody drives. But I love to see other vehicles on the trail. You can learn by watching them, noticing the benefits and downfalls. You apparently have no idea what a G wagon is. I could take G wagon and wheel circles around you. I encourage you to broaden your horizons, and realize there are many more vehicles out there that what is on your list. Every vehicle has its strenghts. There is no best.

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Originally Posted by Freewill (Post 2508740)

If the Wrangler were a crappy design that nobody wanted, then no one would care if the quality sux or if the engine comes from a mini-van.

Thing is, Wrangler is a GREAT design - so we care a LOT about how well it is or isn't built. The complaining comes from how much passion we have for the vehicle.

Meanwhile, Chrysler just goes along building them as bad as they can get away with, knowing that people will still buy Wranglers. This is not a real good situation, but its what we are stuck with.

Very well put. Mass production and superior quality rarely match up. And like you I would rather be "stuck" with my JK than anything else out there. There can be only one!

Comparing what available today among the various manufacturers is one thing. I can understand it and it's relevant.

But comparing what's available today to what was available 30 to 40 years ago and it's a completely different picture.

I wish we could go out today and buy a new Scout, or Bronco, or Jimmy, or Jeep the way they made them back then. Rugged, simple, capable, with solid beefy axles and a big freekin V8.

The JK is the last of a dieing breed or class of vehicles. Some comment that the Jeep heritage is being lost as it tries to appeal to a broader market. We understand the business model driving these choices, but some of us would love a simpler and more rugged version. Some of us would love a simple rugged and capable 4X4 the way they use to make em.

It's getting harder and harder to find these older vehicles in good shape after all.

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Originally Posted by Freewill (Post 2508740)

I know for a fact that this is NOT the case. People saying this makes me mad.

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Originally Posted by Ryanc (Post 2508758)

Need to work on your people skills there, buddy

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Originally Posted by Ryanc (Post 2508758)

Wow man take it easy..I think what the OP was getting at is you see a lot of complaining on this forum about quality and such. But the JK is still a fairly new model and people expect perfection (or close to it) reliability wise from a new vehicle. I agree with you on the other vehicle on the trails aspect. I've got some jacked up 4 runners and old disco's around me that are freikin badass.

And lets leave the G wagon alone. With the exception of very few, and the militarized ones in other countries, theres a reason its called the "G WAGON" ...JK man I don't want you starting in on me now:rotflmao2:

We're confusing two different things. "Design" is all the features, function, and capability you *intend*. Quality is how well you deliver on your claims. I have less issue with Jeep's design, and Chrysler's design. Its the quality issues that are generating most unhappiness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by porters (Post 2508786)

But comparing what's available today to what was available 30 to 40 years ago and it's a completely different picture.

I wish we could go out today and buy a new Scout, or Bronco, or Jimmy, or Jeep the way they made them back then. Rugged, simple, capable, with solid beefy axles and a big freekin V8.

Some of us would love a simple rugged and capable 4X4 the way they use to make em.

Looking in the web and 4x4 catalogs, I have come to the conclusion (IMO of course) that the best thing to do to get a really tough/simple/reliable Wrangler, would be to build one. From brand new aftermarket frame on up. Lucky for me, in Michigan you can custom build and title/plate even sand rails for the street. Just did one of those. Just need wipers (used a hand lever to move it lol), windshield washer (coke bottle and fuel primer sqeeze bulb), horn, brake/head/turn lights,flashers. A line lock suffices for emergency brake. Seat belts.

Don't need smog, roof,doors,fenders,anti skid/roll/you name it gizmos.

State guy comes out, inspects, and sticks a VIN on it. Assembled Vehicle title.

Crap I am going to blab my way into doing this (again).

I do not see why a person could not build a Wrangler with much of the qualitys of a modern vehicle (good coil suspension/ABS/Air/cruise) without some of the weaknesses. Yet, I do not want some of the 30 year old tech, and I do not want to buy a 30 year old vehicle.

Not really Chryslers fault on a lot of the Wranglers complexity though. Most of it is federal regulations.

Now quality control......thats arguable for sure (but I am not going to).

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhol111964 (Post 2508895)

The JK was designed under Daimler's rule. Those bastards MCM'ed (read: cost cut) everything out. Cerberus was no help either. The JK and almost all of Chrysler's products suffered. Fiat is working to reverse that trend. The 2011 and 2012 model years re the first forays into actually IMPROVING the product instead of cutting every penny out of it.