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-   -   How long can a dealer keep your car for warranty repair without a loaner or rental (https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/jk-talk-26/how-long-can-dealer-keep-your-car-warranty-repair-without-loaner-rental-359646/)

GregD 01-27-2023 08:40 AM

How long can a dealer keep your car for warranty repair without a loaner or rental
 
I have a 2009 JKU Rubicon that I've owned since new. I bought it when they had the lifetime powertrain warranty on it. Recently, my transmission, a 6 speed manual, was shifting very poorly, almost undriveable. I brought it into the dealer, they checked it out, said it needs a new transmission, and that it's covered by the warranty. Everything sounded great, but then I get a message from them a couple of days later saying that the transmissions are backordered and the estimated delivery date is 45 days later.

I asked them if they could provide a loaner or rental car, but they said due to the age of my Jeep that they wouldn't, and they put me in contact with Jeep corporate about the matter. I talked to the people at Jeep, and after a few days they came back and said that they wouldn't provide a loaner or rental car either. I asked them if there was anything they could do to speed up the repair, and they said they would try.

I've been hearing from my Jeep Case Manager once a week since then, but nothing new until this week when I was informed that it might take longer than 45 days to get the transmission, and that they had no ETA for it. I know supply chains are messed up, but this is ridiculous. If they provided a loaner or rental, I wouldn't mind too much, but I am currently paying for a rental car out of my own pocket.

What's the point of having a warranty if they can keep your vehicle for an indefinite period of time, while not providing alternative means of transportation? Does anyone know if there are any laws regarding this situation? Obviously lemon laws won't apply due to the age of the vehicle, but this doesn't seem right to me.

ronjenx 01-27-2023 09:17 AM

Is the transmission out of it?

The Cut-and Paste below is from the 2009 warranty book. After reading all of the "Not Covered" statements, pay particular attention to the last sentence.

1.1 Incidental and Consequential
Damages Not Covered
Your warranties don’t cover any incidental or
consequential damages connected with your vehicle’s
failure, either while under warranty or afterward.
Examples of such damages include:
• lost time;
• inconvenience;
• the loss of the use of your vehicle;
• the cost of rental vehicles, gasoline, telephone,
travel, or lodging;
• the loss of personal or commercial property; and
• the loss of revenue.
Some states don’t allow incidental or consequential
damages to be excluded or limited, so this exclusion
may not apply to you.

GregD 01-27-2023 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by ronjenx (Post 4400449)
Is the transmission out of it?

The Cut-and Paste below is from the 2009 warranty book. After reading all of the "Not Covered" statements, pay particular attention to the last sentence.

1.1 Incidental and Consequential
Damages Not Covered
Your warranties don’t cover any incidental or
consequential damages connected with your vehicle’s
failure, either while under warranty or afterward.
Examples of such damages include:
• lost time;
• inconvenience;
• the loss of the use of your vehicle;
• the cost of rental vehicles, gasoline, telephone,
travel, or lodging;
• the loss of personal or commercial property; and
• the loss of revenue.
Some states don’t allow incidental or consequential
damages to be excluded or limited, so this exclusion
may not apply to you.

Yes, the transmission is out, and the Jeep is sitting at the dealer where it has been since 12/21/22. The transmission has been out of the vehicle since at least 12/26/22. I wasn't expecting a loaner or rental car if the repair were completed in a reasonable period of time. I don't think that 45 days plus is a reasonable period of time. When someone providing a warranty can't fulfill the obligations of that warranty in a reasonable period of time, they should make some accommodation to compensate the customer for the unusual delay.

ronjenx 01-27-2023 12:17 PM

Have you asked if they will put it back together so you can drive it until the new transmission comes in? (You said it shifts poorly, but is not undriveable.)
Have you checked if your state is one where they cannot exclude a loaner in your circumstance? (Referring to the last sentence in the warranty statement.)

Did they consider the possibility of having your transmission rebuilt, or installing a used one?

This is addressed in your warranty book.
4. Other Terms of Your
Warranties
4.1 Exchanged Parts May Be Used in
Warranty Repairs

In the interest of customer satisfaction,
Chrysler Motors LLC ("Chrysler") may offer exchange
service on some vehicle parts. This service is
intended to reduce the amount of time your vehicle is
not available for your use because of repairs.
Parts
used in exchange service may be new, remanufactured,
reconditioned, or repaired, depending on the
part involved.
All exchange parts that might be used meet
Chrysler standards, and have the same warranties as
new parts.
Examples of the kinds of parts that might be
serviced in this way are:
• engine assemblies;
• transmission assemblies;
• instrument cluster assemblies;
• radios, tape, CD and DVD players;
• speedometers; and
• powertrain control modules.
To help control suspected ozone-depleting agents,
the EPA requires the capture, purification, and
reuse of automotive air-conditioning refrigerant
gases. As a result, a repair to the sealed portion of
your air-conditioning system may involve the
installation of purified reclaimed refrigerant.


Jay2013jk 01-27-2023 12:19 PM

This is from the 2009 Jeep Warranty PDF :
1. Your Legal Rights Under These Limited Warranties The warranties contained in this booklet are the only express warranties that Chrysler Motors LLC ("Chrysler") makes for your vehicle. These warranties give you specific legal rights. You may also have other rights that vary from state to state. For example, you may have some implied warranties, depending on the state where your vehicle was sold or is registered. These implied warranties are limited, to the extent allowed by law, to the time periods covered by the express written warranties contained in this booklet. If you use your vehicle primarily for business or commercial purposes, then these implied warranties do not apply and Chrysler completely disclaims them to the extent allowed by law. And the implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose does not apply if your vehicle is used for racing, even if the vehicle is equipped for racing. Some states do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so the above limitations may not apply to you. 1.1 Incidental and Consequential Damages Not Covered Your warranties don’t cover any incidental or consequential damages connected with your vehicle’s failure, either while under warranty or afterward. Examples of such damages include: • lost time; • inconvenience; • the loss of the use of your vehicle; • the cost of rental vehicles, gasoline, telephone, travel, or lodging; • the loss of personal or commercial property; and • the loss of revenue. Some states don’t allow incidental or consequential damages to be excluded

GregD 01-27-2023 01:43 PM


Originally Posted by Jay2013jk (Post 4400453)
This is from the 2009 Jeep Warranty PDF :
1. Your Legal Rights Under These Limited Warranties The warranties contained in this booklet are the only express warranties that Chrysler Motors LLC ("Chrysler") makes for your vehicle. These warranties give you specific legal rights. You may also have other rights that vary from state to state. For example, you may have some implied warranties, depending on the state where your vehicle was sold or is registered. These implied warranties are limited, to the extent allowed by law, to the time periods covered by the express written warranties contained in this booklet. If you use your vehicle primarily for business or commercial purposes, then these implied warranties do not apply and Chrysler completely disclaims them to the extent allowed by law. And the implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose does not apply if your vehicle is used for racing, even if the vehicle is equipped for racing. Some states do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so the above limitations may not apply to you. 1.1 Incidental and Consequential Damages Not Covered Your warranties don’t cover any incidental or consequential damages connected with your vehicle’s failure, either while under warranty or afterward. Examples of such damages include: • lost time; • inconvenience; • the loss of the use of your vehicle; • the cost of rental vehicles, gasoline, telephone, travel, or lodging; • the loss of personal or commercial property; and • the loss of revenue. Some states don’t allow incidental or consequential damages to be excluded

I wasn't expecting a loaner or rental car when I brought the Jeep in, but that was under the assumption that the repairs would be performed in a reasonable time frame. I made an appointment 3 weeks in advance with the dealership to make sure that they could get right on my Jeep rather than having it sit around for a while. The dealership did their part; they had it apart and checked out within a few days despite my bringing it in a few days before Christmas. If they could have gotten the transmission, I have every reason to believe that the Jeep would have been together within a few days after that.

Unfortunately, Jeep dropped the ball by obviously not having an adequate supply of these transmissions in stock. Considering that the NSG370 transmission has been used in multiple Jeep models including all of the JKs, they should have an excellent idea of the failure rate and how many they should keep in stock to service their customers. The result is that I've already been without my Jeep for 35 days with some unknown amount of time left to go. I don't think that's a reasonable amount of time to expect for warranty repairs. Jeep didn't do their job properly and they should take care of their customer to deal with their screwup.

GregD 01-27-2023 01:48 PM


Originally Posted by ronjenx (Post 4400452)
Have you asked if they will put it back together so you can drive it until the new transmission comes in? (You said it shifts poorly, but is not undriveable.)
Have you checked if your state is one where they cannot exclude a loaner in your circumstance? (Referring to the last sentence in the warranty statement.)

Did they consider the possibility of having your transmission rebuilt, or installing a used one?

This is addressed in your warranty book.
4. Other Terms of Your
Warranties
4.1 Exchanged Parts May Be Used in
Warranty Repairs

In the interest of customer satisfaction,
Chrysler Motors LLC ("Chrysler") may offer exchange
service on some vehicle parts. This service is
intended to reduce the amount of time your vehicle is
not available for your use because of repairs.
Parts
used in exchange service may be new, remanufactured,
reconditioned, or repaired, depending on the
part involved.
All exchange parts that might be used meet
Chrysler standards, and have the same warranties as
new parts.
Examples of the kinds of parts that might be
serviced in this way are:
• engine assemblies;
• transmission assemblies;
• instrument cluster assemblies;
• radios, tape, CD and DVD players;
• speedometers; and
• powertrain control modules.
To help control suspected ozone-depleting agents,
the EPA requires the capture, purification, and
reuse of automotive air-conditioning refrigerant
gases. As a result, a repair to the sealed portion of
your air-conditioning system may involve the
installation of purified reclaimed refrigerant.

The dealership priced out the cost of rebuilding my transmission, but since that came out to significantly more than getting a new one, Jeep required them to install a new one. They didn't provide an option of a used one. Considering the possible failure rates of a used transmission, and the cost of installing it, it would actually be pretty dumb for Jeep to put in a used transmission when replacing one under warranty.

GregD 01-27-2023 01:55 PM


Originally Posted by ronjenx (Post 4400452)
Have you asked if they will put it back together so you can drive it until the new transmission comes in? (You said it shifts poorly, but is not undriveable.)
Have you checked if your state is one where they cannot exclude a loaner in your circumstance? (Referring to the last sentence in the warranty statement.)

They didn't suggest the option of putting it back together, so I assume that I would have to pay for them to put it back together and then take it apart again if I wanted to do that. Also, the transmission was disassembled to check it out, so that would have to be put together as well. It would be quite a bit of work to get my Jeep back together. Also, it was nearly undriveable. If you didn't get just the right rhythym when shifting gears, it would either not come out of gear or not go into the next one. My wife refused to drive it any more because of this. This occurred will all gears 1 through 6. As far as I know, there's nothing in Colorado law that requires a loaner when a car is in for repair.

Dat 02-03-2023 08:37 AM

Any luck on parts yet? Never a good time to be without a vehicle, hopefully they are working with you to get something to drive or get you back on the road

GregD 02-03-2023 08:49 AM

Still waiting on a transmission with no ETA from Jeep. The Jeep has been at the dealer since 12/21/22. I'm currently renting a car and paying out of my pocket.

Dat 02-03-2023 10:39 AM

Ooooph, rent car kinda gets into the pocket after that long, when i was a service advisor at the GM dealer, we could “good will” help on a rental if vehicle was down because of parts availability, I think we had a two week maximum without our service reps authorization, but could get more if we called him

Dat 02-03-2023 10:48 AM

Saying that, it did take more paperwork and time on my part, a lot of people in that position didn’t want to spend the time and effort, it’s a lot easier to just say no, but it was worth it to me for customer retention, not just for keeping customers, but also small town and knowing the customers on a personal level made me want to go the extra mile

GregD 02-03-2023 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by Dat (Post 4400642)
Saying that, it did take more paperwork and time on my part, a lot of people in that position didn’t want to spend the time and effort, it’s a lot easier to just say no, but it was worth it to me for customer retention, not just for keeping customers, but also small town and knowing the customers on a personal level made me want to go the extra mile

The dealer and Jeep corporate both told me already that they wouldn't provide a loaner or rental due to the Jeep's age. I don't see why that should be a factor, especially with Jeep corporate who dropped the ball on this by not keeping the parts in stock to make repairs. It's not like the vehicle or the transmission are new and failure rates unknown. This transmission was used in all of the JKs with manuals from 2007 to 2018 and Jeep undoubtedly has the data on its failure rates.

That said, I'm going to push hard for a loaner or rental with the dealer and Jeep on Monday. At that point, it will have been more than 30 work days.

Dat 02-03-2023 01:08 PM

If jeep is like GM, when you call into the customer assistance phone number, you get a call center full of people that actually don’t have any authority to do anything, the customer assistance people listen to the customer, then they call the dealer to see what can be done on the dealer level, corporate doesn’t commit to anything out of their pocket, customer assistance won’t call me at the dealer and request us to do things, I would ask them for a warranty claim code so I could get paid for what they promised, very seldom did they give one, you will have more luck from the dealer than the customer ass number.
with GM it was easy to get customer retention claims paid, at least back then, I don’t know how the jeep customer service/ satisfaction policy works though, even with GM, I’ve been out of it long enough now they’ve probably changed a lot

GregD 02-03-2023 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by Dat (Post 4400647)
If jeep is like GM, when you call into the customer assistance phone number, you get a call center full of people that actually don’t have any authority to do anything, the customer assistance people listen to the customer, then they call the dealer to see what can be done on the dealer level, corporate doesn’t commit to anything out of their pocket, customer assistance won’t call me at the dealer and request us to do things, I would ask them for a warranty claim code so I could get paid for what they promised, very seldom did they give one, you will have more luck from the dealer than the customer ass number.
with GM it was easy to get customer retention claims paid, at least back then, I don’t know how the jeep customer service/ satisfaction policy works though, even with GM, I’ve been out of it long enough now they’ve probably changed a lot

The service manager at the dealer actually sent the information on my situation to Jeep Cares and gave me their contact information. I've been having weekly emails and phone calls with the Jeep Cares person since. In any case, come Monday I intend to push from on both the dealer side and with Jeep directly.

Dat 02-03-2023 01:17 PM

After this long, they should do something, shouldn’t have let it go this long, there are too many other options to buy than jeep for them to let it go without helping

GregD 02-03-2023 01:22 PM


Originally Posted by Dat (Post 4400649)
After this long, they should do something, shouldn’t have let it go this long, there are too many other options to buy than jeep for them to let it go without helping

One of the main reasons I kept my Jeep this long was because of the Lifetime Powertrain Warranty. This experience certainly makes the lifetime warranty significantly less worthwhile. Maybe this is partially Jeep's way of trying to convince me to sell the Jeep, since the lifetime powertrain warranty does not transfer to the new owner. This experience certainly makes me less likely to buy any Jeep products in the future.

Jay2013jk 02-03-2023 04:10 PM

Not trying to change the subject; however, here is a "Side Bar" similar situation.. Car Insurance and Rentals.. Your car is in accident, you have paid for 30 days Rental coverage in your policy.. All Brands have parts on Back Order, the shop cannot get the Radiator support for 3 months, or a door for 4 months, how about a front fascia from over seas for 4 months..guess how much rental payment you Get? BTW these are 2-3 year old vehicles and the salvage yards are sold out; no aftermarket are available either- and these are real today situations..The body shop has no obligation to participate in paying or providing rental after your 30 days of policy paid rental expires. So what happens? I'll let you handle that question.

GregD 02-03-2023 05:40 PM


Originally Posted by Jay2013jk (Post 4400651)
Not trying to change the subject; however, here is a "Side Bar" similar situation.. Car Insurance and Rentals.. Your car is in accident, you have paid for 30 days Rental coverage in your policy.. All Brands have parts on Back Order, the shop cannot get the Radiator support for 3 months, or a door for 4 months, how about a front fascia from over seas for 4 months..guess how much rental payment you Get? BTW these are 2-3 year old vehicles and the salvage yards are sold out; no aftermarket are available either- and these are real today situations..The body shop has no obligation to participate in paying or providing rental after your 30 days of policy paid rental expires. So what happens? I'll let you handle that question.

They're similar in that they're both contracts, but that's about it. In your example, you have a contract with the insurance company for 30 days. If you wanted more, you could probably pay for more, but you'd have to do that up front. They are not in violation of their contract to you if the repair by a third party takes longer than 30 days. You might have cause for some action against the repair shop if they promised that your car would be done by a certain date. I doubt that would happen since I think most shops verify that they can get the parts before they promise any completion date.

A new car warranty is a contract where the car manufacturer promises to fix your vehicle in a reasonable fashion. If they can't do that, they are in violation of the contract. I haven't checked with a lawyer yet, but everything I've been able to find on it says that 30 days is the accepted standard for warranty repairs. It is the standard where lemon laws kick in, and those can require the manufacturer to pay you back for your car. I don't expect that, but I do expect them to provide me with alternate means of transportation when they have exceeded a reasonable period of time to effect repairs.

sam james 02-10-2023 08:30 AM

The length of time a dealer can keep a car for warranty repair without providing a loaner or rental vehicle can vary depending on several factors, such as the severity of the repair needed, the availability of parts, and the dealership's policy. However, it is generally expected that the dealership will make a reasonable effort to repair the vehicle as quickly as possible and minimize any inconvenience to the owner.

In most cases, if a warranty repair is expected to take an extended period of time, the dealership will provide a loaner or rental vehicle to the owner at no cost. This is usually done to ensure that the owner can continue to use their vehicle while the repair is being carried out. However, this may vary by dealership and by the terms of the warranty.

It is always a good idea to discuss the expected duration of the repair with the dealership beforehand and to understand their policy regarding loaner or rental vehicles. This can help you to make an informed decision about whether to proceed with the repair or to seek an alternative solution.

GregD 02-10-2023 10:13 AM


Originally Posted by sam james (Post 4400799)
The length of time a dealer can keep a car for warranty repair without providing a loaner or rental vehicle can vary depending on several factors, such as the severity of the repair needed, the availability of parts, and the dealership's policy. However, it is generally expected that the dealership will make a reasonable effort to repair the vehicle as quickly as possible and minimize any inconvenience to the owner.

In most cases, if a warranty repair is expected to take an extended period of time, the dealership will provide a loaner or rental vehicle to the owner at no cost. This is usually done to ensure that the owner can continue to use their vehicle while the repair is being carried out. However, this may vary by dealership and by the terms of the warranty.

It is always a good idea to discuss the expected duration of the repair with the dealership beforehand and to understand their policy regarding loaner or rental vehicles. This can help you to make an informed decision about whether to proceed with the repair or to seek an alternative solution.

Duration of the repair doesn't really apply with a warranty repair. It needs to be done, and it is the manufacturer's responsibility to see that it is completed in a timely fashion. In this case, since it is a warranty repair, the policy regarding loaner or rental vehicles is also up to Jeep. If the transmission had been in stock, I am sure the dealer would have had it replaced within a week or so. They had the old transmission removed and disassembled within a a couple of days of my bringing the vehicle in. Reassembly would be about the same. There is no reasonable alternative solution.

In this case, since it is a new car warranty, the dealer is restricted to what Jeep is willing to do. According to the dealer, Jeep will usually reimburse the dealership for the cost of a loaner or rental on a warranty repair. In this case, Jeep has refused due to the age of the car. I've currently been without the Jeep for 54 days. Does anyone really think that is a reasonable period of time for a warranty repair without providing alternative transportation? If a manufacturer can't fulfill their warranty obligations in a reasonable period of time and won't compensate the owner for that failure, the warranty is just toilet paper.

Currently there's no ETA on the transmission. It's been almost 2 months already. How long am I supposed to wait? 3 months, 4 months, 6 months, a year, longer?

This will definitely be the last Jeep/Stellantis product I ever buy, and I recommend that anyone else contemplating buying one of their products think twice about it.


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