Hello,

I am a Tacoma owner and have been 100% satisfied with the truck, but after 5 years of ownership i am getting antsy for something different. I have spent the last week on this forum researching and studying 120+ pages so I can get as much knowledge as possible.

I have some questions I would like to ask.

The Wrangler will be my DD, mostly street, but some destination 4x4 at the beginning, no rock crawling or anything to really beat up the vehicle ( I baby my trucks).

That said, I am looking at 2012 JK's. Would hate to pay almost as much for the 3.8L when the 3.6 is that much better.

Here are some questions if anyone could help me out with I would greatly appreciate

1) I want to run a 2.5" with 35's. I have probably read 10 threads on this issue. Seems mixed opinions. 1/3 say 3.73 is fine, 1/3 say have to go 4.10, 1/3 seems to think 4.10 isnt enough and 4.88 is needed. This plays a big part on if I get a Rubicon vs a Sport. If i would need to re-gear a Rubicon as well as a sport, kinda doesnt make sense to pay for the 4.10 to have to pay for the new gears. So the question is are 4.10 okay for the 35's?

2) if 4.10's are okay for 35's and I choose to not go with the Rubicon, can i buy the 4.10's from a Rubicon owner who re geared to go 37's+? if so, would this be much cheaper than just buying the 4.10 and having it installed?

3) I live in AZ so summers are 115+. Which one is hotter on the inside with the top on... a soft top or the hard top? I thought i read that hard tops radiate more heat.

4) Is it better to buy a hard top model then buy a soft top?

5) With a spider top/hot headliner or something like that on for shade, no doors or windows, is it pointless to run A/C? I have seen people talking about running a/c with it opened up

6) I have never owned a manaul but think a Jeep would be a perfect first vehicle to get in manaul (next vehicle will be a Vetter or M3 manaul) and practice on. Is there any reason other than preference to get the auto? I know the new auto is leaps and bounds better than the 3.8 auto, but havent seen much if there are any other benefits to it. I thought that the manaul had better gear ratios for the larger tires, but could be wrong.


Thanks guys for all the help. I have been window searching ebay, autotrader, craigslist to see ideas on how i want the Jeep to look.

Here are three that I found. To me it seems just lift, wheels/tires, sliders and maybe bumpers. I am trying to figure out how much it will cost to have an end product like these....(not 18" wheels)

 

The biggest cost in rehearing is the labor. Comparatively it wouldn't make much of a difference if you got someone's old 4.10's or new gears. You could get by on 3.73's but you'll be happier with 4.10's on your 35's. A lot of people like the manual tranny because of more gear options yes but 1st gear is lower so it kinda offsets a little not having deep enough gears. Another thing, the sport and sahara's transfer case is geared at 2.72 ( I believe ) to 1 while the rubicon's is geared 4 to 1. So that might come in to play depending on what kind of wheelin you plan to do.

 

I can't answer all of this but I'll add a couple pennies.

I plan to run 35's with the 4.10s but don't have first hand experience. If you look at the gear chart 35's and 4.10's is just about the same as stock 32's with 3.73s. So it should be no issue at all. 35's and 3.73s will be pushing it but like you said some people seem to be happy with it. I am sure it varies a lot by your driving style and local terrain.

The stuff about the top I believe will be 100% subjective so I would just suggest test driving both and see what you like. Or just get the dual top I can say I have blasted the AC with the top off and a sun shade and yes it does work. Point it right at you and it will help keep you cool.

Mannual vs. Auto is also totally subjective so again I just say test drive both and see what you like. I am not sure a Jeep would be the best vehicle to learn a stick on but you'd get it if you wanted to.

For upgrade cost 35's will run in the $300 range so plan on $1,500+ for tires and then lift prices range a lot depending if you just want a BB or a suspension lift with new CA's, track bars, etc. I would say a budget of $4K would give you a lot of options.

Good luck!

 

In regards to Stick vs. Auto. You said this would be your 1st stick and this will be your DD. Before you decide to go for the manual, you need to ask yourself, how is the traffic for your daily commutes? If you find yourself often in stop and go traffic for your daily commutes, then you might want to highly reconsider getting an auto since the manual will not be very fun for too long, having to constantly shift and push in the clutch in that stop and go traffic, where eventually you might start wishing you had gotten the auto instead. If no such worries about traffic for your daily commutes, then get what you want. They both have pluses and minuses for off road use.

In regards to hard top vs. soft top. If you have a garage, or somewhere else you can store the hard top....get the dual top option. That's really the best of both worlds approach. Some have gotten the hard top, and wish they also had the soft top. Some have gotten the soft top and wish they had gotten the hard top. Get both now, otherwise it will cost you an arm and a leg getting either one of them later...much more than if you had just gotten both from the start. If you really want to choose one or the other, I would suggest the hard top. Hard tops, you can still take off the front freedom panels by yourself and throw them in the back. Plus, a hard top is hard to find and will cost you a lot more after the fact. If theft is a concern where you live, you'll definitely want to go with a hard top.

I got the dual top option, and you can have both on at the same time. The soft top will fold down, and you can mount the hard top over it. Personally, that's what I do and then I have a hard top hoist in my garage. When the right weather hits, I just hoist the hard top off and let it hang in the garage and the soft top is there if it decides to rain while I'm out running around topless. If you don't have a place to store the hard top, like a garage, when you take it off, then you might want to lean towards just the soft top.

 

The 4:10's in the Rubi will not fit in the Sport. The cost of a swap is mostly labor anyway.

Sounds to me like a Sport or Sahara with 35's, manual, and 3:73s would be perfect for you with the 3.6.

Order the Dual top option. Also check on the premium soft top available from the factory.

For insulation purposes, the hardtop with Hot Head Headliners is best

 

Thanks for all the help!

As far as manual transmission, my drive to work is under 10 miles and i hop on the freeway with not too much traffic for about 7 miles. I drive about 35 miles a day, but about 8 miles at a time.

I am not set on a manual. Basically, whatever I can find the best deal on or with the options I want.

I really need to go and test drive one, just hate to head to dealerships to window shop, especially because most dealerships are a hassle and give you the hard sell. When I do test drive a sport or Rubicon, with a quality lift and tires should I expect the ride to stay the same, get better , or worse? Just trying to prepare for the ride quality for the way I want it modded.

Are we allowed to post links of vehicles for sale? I am searching autotrader for new or slightly used 12's. Not too much, but I did find a 12' Rubicon auto with soft top just down the road from me. They have it listed on sale at $28k I believe, but you never know the real pricing and what kind of stuff they will pull on you once you get there. Also found a 12' sport completely done up , but with 25k miles for $25,000. That high of mileage on a one year old vehicle may be a cause for concern.

As far as the gearing. If you end up not happy with 3.73s and 35's and will pay the cost to re gear, is the smart move 4.88?


Lastly, I just noticed on the Jeep website it is not showing Flame red as a 2013 option. Could this be right?

 

You won't find a good price on a 2012 with low miles. Wranglers hold their re-sale value. If you shop around and are good at negotiating, you can get a new 2013 for about $1-2k more than what you'll find for a used 2012. You know the price tag on the window sticker is not what you have to actually pay right? I was able to negotiate about $5500 off of sticker price when I bought my JKU new.

 

Thanks for the heads up! I have been going by invoice, trying to build it at KBB so I know the actual costs, then figuring a couple percent off of that based on the USAA and tread lightly type discounts.

I have noticed they dont lose their value much, just like my Tacoma. Bought the Toyota 2 years old with 33k on it for $21,500. Bout to hit 100k 5 years later and blue book is $19,500. Just shows you can pay a little more and get something newer! I have found that Rubicon as the cheapest $28k new for a 2012. Looked at invoice and it looks to be under invoice. There are some 2012 sports advertised below invoice as well, asking around $22.5 to $23,500 new.

I wish all the JK's had the new interior and engine. I found a 2010 with lift, bumpers, wheels, sliders with about 20,000 miles for $23,000...but then again if I can get a new sport for around that and put $5k into it to make it the same, that may be worth it to have the new engine and interior plus first owner and warranty

 

I used the put one dealer against the other dealer bargaining method. In other words negotiate a price with one dealer go to the other dealer and see if they can beat it on price or matching the price and getting me more features.


Some tips on negotiating with dealers:
- NEVER let them know exactly what you want. Whatever they have on the lot, make them feel you might be willing to "settle" because it "kind of is what you're looking for". Even if it is EXACTLY what you want.
- Make them think whatever feature/function/color it is they don't have on a vehicle in their lot, some other dealer has it and that other dealer is giving you that feature you prefer at a lower price. Give them a VIN number from the other dealer's lot, so they can confirm and look it up, what their vehicle doesn't have.
- NEVER let them know the EXACT color you want. Just point them in the right direction. You want Blue, tell them you're trying to decide between Red, Black, and Blue.
- The key is to point the sales person in the right direction, but not to give them any specific must haves.

The moment you walk onto a dealer lot, the sales person is already starting the price negotiations, when they start asking you questions of what it is you're looking for. It comes across as them "Helping you find what you're looking for, but what it really is, they're backing you into a corner come price negotiation time, where they can say, Look...this is the exact color you're looking for, this has the package you're looking for, this has the leather seats you're looking for, this has the exact wheels you're looking for. It has the tow package you want. It even has the remote start that you like. You won't find another dealer within 200 miles that will have a Jeep with everything you want on it, like this one has. At this point, he's probably right and is willing to tell you that, because at that point he knows enough about what it is you exactly wanted, to be able to say something like that. He now has you by the balls, So here's the price and have a nice day.

Don't be "That Guy". I have an uncle, who is that guy. The guy who goes into the dealer and tells them,
- It has to be a Rubicon
- It has to have dual tops
- It has to have the premium audio
- It has to have the navigation system
- It has to be Black
- It has to have leather seats
- It has to be a manual trans
- It has to have aluminum wheels

So, my uncle tells this story of how he goes into the dealer and let them know he had to have this complete list of items, wouldn't settle for anything less, and would not buy if they couldn't get it for him. So, I ask him "How did they treat you in regards to price?" Oh, I got a good deal. The sales guy got me everything I wanted and also was able to knock $500 off the sticker price.

I don't tell him, but I'm thinking to myself? Well, I got everything I wanted on my JK also, where the sticker price was $33.8K and I was able to negotiate down to $28K. So, I just say, congratulations Uncle Ralph.

 

I think the gearing choices are heavily weighted by personal preference...

For some input from the 6-speed camp: My 2-door JK is on 32.6" tires and 4.10's, and at times it's a little too short for my liking. I put some miles on a 2-door Rubicon running 4.10's on 35's, and it was a little long-legged for my liking - BUT still perfectly acceptable for every day use. I think my ideal gearing would be 4.10's for 33's and 4.88's for 35's (in a 6-speed) -- but that's me. It would be a hard decision for me to spend the money to regear from 4.10's to 4.88's for 35's. But if I were at 3.73 or 3.21, I'd just simply plan on it.

I personally wouldn't let the though about traffic sway you away from a 6-speed, unless you know you'll hate it. I prefer mine over an automatic in traffic - and I am in it daily... again, personal preference...

For the two-doors, I think the 3.8 motor does pretty well, but I certainly understand the appear of the 3.6. If you are looking at Unlimiteds, then I'd definitely stick to the 3.6.

Side note: I've been considering trading my JK in on a double cab Tacoma. I put down the idea for now, but can't count it out in the future. I could really use a truck sometimes, but the JK is just too much fun.