Sell me on a rubicon
 

So as of now I have a 2013 JKU sahara. Love it as I traded a bare bones 2009 JK in for it. Love the extra space. However now that I'm getting more into the aftermarket of things since I have more money to play with I realized that everything I want to do to the sahara is already on the rubicon. Also I'm running 3.21 gears on my jku which sucks because a 4 door doesn't look proportional to me like a 2 door unless you're running 35s which 4.10 gears would accommodate. My question is should I just go for the rubicon? If so how do you rubicon owners like the lockers that come in it and the electronic sway disco? Are they something that I'll want to replace down the road with different lockers as I want to get more into the off road aspect of things? I guess my main concern is what's gonna save me more in the longrun of things cause as I price out the gear changes and swapping to a 44 up front all the numbers are adding up quick. I'm about 1K under my jk's value right now and what I'd put down from my tax return would put my payments on a new rubi at the same amount I'm paying for my sahara now.

I would take the tax return and pay down some debt with it. Trading for a rubi is a terrible idea even with your "justification" math.

IMO, it's worth either getting sport or a rubicon. You can easily justify building a Sport into and more capable than a rubicon, but the price of the Saharah kinda screws that theory lol

You'll still have to pay for lift, tires, truss/gussets ect with the rubicon. So add that to the money you lose in the trade plus the extra money for the rubicon... :dontknow:

nope - that Sahara is bad ass! :thumbsup:

My best advice-- and I mean no unfriendliness or offense -- is to "get more into the offroad aspect", as you mentioned in your post below, BEFORE buying a brand new Jeep to replace the brand new Jeep you already have.

I believe a lot of people on this forum suffer from "Jeep Dysmorphic Disorder", which is to say that are shamed/guilted/trained to believe that a JK isn't worth its salt and one isn't a "true offroad guy" unless their Jeep has at least 35" tires, locking diffs, trussed/gusseted axles, etc. Even then, if you build a Jeep, someone is destined to call you a "mall crawler" if you don't offroad the way they do. Unfortunately a lot of the Jeep world is the Miley Cyrus' calling the Hannah Montanas of the world "poor and ugly." And then there's the rest of us.

If the money was mine, I'd hang on to my Sahara and start taking it places, if I truly wanted to "get more into the offroad aspect." I'd figure out what it could do, and then design a plan to build or trade when it became really worth it to do so.

Your Sahara is nothing less than amazing, in stock form, no less. Take it places and let it amaze you, because it will. I've done things in a stock JK with 3.21's that made me pee a little.

But, it sounds like you've kind of already made up your mind. You said to sell you on a Rubicon, and I'm trying to sell you on the Sahara that you already have :)

First thing, if you have to be sold on it, you probably don't need it.

A lift and 33s will get you a LOT of places. I've yet to get stuck due to only having 33" tires. I've been stuck plenty of times from not having enough belly clearance (no lift yet - or not enough on my 07), not having lockers (a couple times) or picking bad lines (almost every time!).

Lift it and put some 33s on it. The 3.6l will handle 33s very well even with 3.21s (I'd just keep an eye on the weight of them, and go for lighter ones if possible). I took a JKU sport with Rubi 32s out for a test drive while waiting for my Rubi, and other than it downshifting on the hills, it was fine. And it got better gas mileage due to it's lower RPMs on the highway (although this was a very limited test).

Look, I love my Rubi. But I bought it with the intention of building it up (to an extent). I had a 07 sport that didn't have AC, so a new/different jeep was a must. And no I don't use it nearly to the extent that some do. But I'm happy with it, so that's all that matters to me. But if I had a 13 Sahara, I'd be just as content building that. Start with 33s, a lift and a front bumper and winch. See how far that takes you... I think you'll be surprised. That's what my buddy is rocking, and other than him getting stuck in the obvious places (places he shouldn't be in), I haven't seem him stuck yet. And with his leveling kit, it looks sharp.

The last 2 posters nailed it. I bought my 2007 Sahara Unlimited used off a dealer. Ended up wheeling at Whipsaw with the guy that traded it in and bought a new Rubicon. All I had on it were new Duratracs and disconnected sway bars, and I went everywhere those Rubicons went. The old owner was quite pissed to see that he could have done everything with his old jeep that I was driving! I got stuck in one place after and needed a tug after I got high centered in the mud. I don't think he even tried that line. Driver skill is a big part of it. Pick your lines well, be smart, and you will get that Sahara most places you want it to go. I'll admit I still lust after Rubicons, but with everything that I have put into the Sahara I think in some ways it is now better for my use. The back limited slip is great in the snow - you won't have that in the Rubicon, and the Sahara transfer case is good for my part of the world where I need 4 lo for mud and dirt instead of rock crawling most of the time.

Get out and wheel it - you'll be surprised at what your rig can do.

I disagree completely; the big question is: how much/what difficulty of offroading do you plan to do in the future? A stock wrangler with 3:21 gears is much more practical as a DD; especially with a family. Easier on gas, easier to get in and out of, and much smoother on long rides. In other words, the more you mod for offroading, the worse the vehicle becomes as a DD. If you think you might get more into offroading, definitley go with the Rubi as you have a great platform to build on. The cost to upgrade a wrangler to stock rubi configuration is excessive, whereas just add a lift, bigger tires, bumpers and winch to a rubi and you're ready to go. The stock dana 44's, lockers, & 4:10 gears will be just fine unless you get into extreme offroading. You don't need to change the lockers or swaybar disco. Just my .02 cents...

Ok, so going deeper in debt for something you really don't need is better because maybe someday in the future you think you might need something you read about on a forum but are not really sure.
Got it.

haha X2. Probably lose a few grand on the trade, plus a few more grand to pay for the rubicon... for that price you could probably put a PR44 front and rear on your Saharah with gears, lockers, shafts, balljoints ect.

You really need to define what type of off-roading you do, and expect to do. Honest: This sounds more like "keeping up with the Joneses", which is a horrible reason to keep yourself in debt and buy a new Jeep (and not a much better reason to upgrade your existing Jeep). I run an X (today that would be called a Sport) with the original D30 axle and upgrades. But, I bet that 95% of the posters on JK-Forum don't do the off-roading challenges I've faced. I could have bought a Rubi, but I think I've proven that a modified X is up to the task for what I do ...

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQHYl2Kp5ww http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osgq9oUiboI

There is a man who wheels his stuff. Thanks Mark - your photography is always inspiring!

Every time I see posts like these, I love more and more my bare bones 2 door Sport, manual everything.

Mark nailed it. Much like racing a car on the track, 90% is driver ability. I've seen 70 year old Santa Claus beard sporting men destroy lap times of those less than half their age in a car 20 years older with less HP and less than a 1/4 the mods because they knew how to drive. And did I mention they were three times as easy on the car as the young guys (i.e. brakes, tires, kissing walls, etc). Go out on rides, listen to the veteran wheelers, guides and spotters and learn how to drive your Sport to its' fullest capabilities. I bet you money you'd be pleasantly surprised at just what you don't need right away.

With that being said...my wife and I decided on a Rubicon. But that's only because we already knew we wanted the beefier stuff in the near future, but didn't have a lift and tools in the garage nor time to leave the Rubi at a shop (it's a daily driver). We also had other things we needed to spend actual cash on and elected to finance the higher price of the Rubi and everything it comes with rather than getting a Sport or Sahara and paying for parts cash (no thank you to credit cards and their ridiculous finance charges). But that's just us.

In the end, it's about learning the true capabilities of your stock Jeep, figuring out what you want to do with it moving forward, whether what you want to do is worth the expense and your personal financial situation. What will work for you may not work for others and vice versa. Regardless of what you do, have fun and make the most of it.

Just my humble $0.02 :-)

I don't have a beard, and I just turned 64 a couple weeks ago. LOL.

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Agreed....

Have a rubi and love it. Has just about everything i need stock except a lift and tires. Every time i tryed to build a sport into what i wanted or close to it was about the same cost of a rubi so i just bought the rubi. Its all nice factory clean has the warente. If you really want one and can afford it go for it.

Go for two of them.

Like most people have said. It all depends on what you see yourself doing. I bought my Rubi in 2011 with the intent to get into the wheeling community and do some moderate trails. Now i'm kicking myself because i wish i had just bought a sport. I use my rig for serious rock crawling. Just went to Rock Jock III's/5.38's and will be going to 40's in another month or so. Different strokes for different folks. Figure out what you can see yourself doing.

-Cheers.

Rubicon is named after the Trail in California USA.: usa :
Sahara is named after a desert in Africa.:what?:

So Rubicon is more American than Sahara. :yup:

If you're gonna buy a Sahara, you might as well buy one with a dragon on it. Oh wait, those are also listed as Sahara's too.

I have a sahara as well. Wanted a rubicon, but the dealer didn't have any in the lot. So scratched my itch and just got the jku I own now. Personally it's your money not mine. As well as in the long run you'll probably save on your sahara. If you offroad you're going to change the suspension and wheels and tires on the rubicon anyway. Guess it's up to you

And are all Italian .

I'd say most important of all, to figure out what your going to use the jeep for. I can spout off opinion after opinion and it wouldn't get you much of anywhere(kinda like where this thread is at regardless lol) The rubicon has many pluses going for it. Dual 44s, E-swaybar, T-case, and lockers. If you tried to piece it all together individually.. It would cost you more than the rubicon costs to get it done. Just went that route on my '12 2dr. It's a lot more expensive to "clone" a rubi.( By enough that I'm still a little sore from it all, which includes a LOT of waiting for parts to become available.) Not to mention the rubicon package does have a lot going for it, like the warranty coverage and the wiring that you don't have to worry about running. However if you see yourself replacing any of the items a rubicon comes with stock(outside of gearing and the swaybar).. Then you probably just want to keep the Sahara.

I ordered a sport :) but that's cuz I'm ordering replacement axles, Atlas Tcase, and suspension....

It all depend on how much aftermarket you want to go....lol

The most ignorant comment I have seen to date on this forum. Now the Sahara edition is un American? Get a clue

There has to be a joke somewhere in here because this comment is way too far out in left field. Does this mean that an 'X' model is from another planet? What does that make a Sport model? I disagree regardless a Jeep is a Jeep and the last time I checked mine was built in the USA.

Wow who pissed in your wheaties. Hes obviously joking. Get a clue.

Except the dragon edition that's not American

imo delete this post and pretend it never happened ^

No. :beer:

If you really want the Rubicon, get it. Otherwise you will just regret later on down the road not getting it when you had the chance. If you have lots of money to blow and want to build a super-modified jeep anyway, keep the Sahara and build it right. Keep in mind I've seen plenty of people go buy the Sahara or Sport models with all the intentions of making it into a Rubicon look-alike or better, but never actually falling through with it. It can be hard sometimes to throw piles of money into something when you are already paying piles of money just to own it. Sometimes it's worth it just getting the Rubicon because a lot of the really expensive stuff is already covered. It may save you a lot of time and hassles just getting what you want right off the bat.

Wheel your stock sahara till u realize u need mods. I've got a stock 2010 sahara unlimited (stock suspension/tires). This forum's opinions seem to tend to lean towards the extreme with mods and such (imho) but im happy with what ive done with my stock suspension and tires. Jeeps are still jeeps and are made for off roading. I would love to put the $ into it to make it better, but i dont need better yet. Honestly, think about how much you wheel and how hard you will wheel. But wheel it stock until you reach it's limits. You'd be surprised what it can do. It's cliche but it's true. I haven't been stuck yet except once in mud and that was me entering the mud wrong. It's still a jeep stock and it still kicks ass offroad. It's nice to want, but it's better to realize you already have what you need.

Ok, so what I think we all are saying is this;
1) Keep the jeep you have and go wheeling. "I did"
2) When others try and help with your driving lines listen. "It does help"
3) Go wheeling more and you will see you can do more then you think you can. " I did find that out"
4) Get the tires you want "still working on the wife, I still have stock tires and doing fine"
5) AND THE BIGEST ONE ---HAVE FUN---

My two cents.

:thumbsup:

X2
Learning how to wheel with a stock Jeep before slapping on mods WILL make you a better wheeler. Even if you only go out 5-10 times or something with it stock, it will help you learn the ropes and better understand the importance of picking lines ect.

People who slap on $5000-10,000 of mods right off the bat before they ever touch the dirt are really missing out in my opinion. #1 they never get the appreciation of what a stock jeep can do on the trail. #2 They don't build as good of an offroading foundation. If the first time you wheel your jeep is with 37's and lockers, nothing is really much of a challenge until you get to a much more technical trail, and then you are kind of over your head.

I highly recommend holding off the mods at first if you are new to Jeeps or wheeling. Not saying the OP is a newb or anything, just my wisdom in general. I have a 2 door sport on 35's, a budget boost and no lockers. I have lots of fun on blue and black trails and have never really been jealous of a similarly equiped rubicon's capability.

Speaking as someone that has only gone out one time with my own 07 JK Sahara before trading it in (BIG mistake!). I have to agree that wheeling with stock equipment to begin with makes sense. I found out real quick what I could and couldn't do. Fortunately I came out with minimal damage on the couldn't do side. Wish I could have gone wheeling more often back then. Recently I have traded to a newer 11 JK Sahara with a 2.5 lift and 33's and now looking forward to wheeling more often.

You have pretty much made up your mind however if it were me, I think the money would be best spent on a lift and larger tires and other fun, rather than moving up to a Rubicon that you're gonna lose so much money on the deal. That's just me. Good luck with your decision!

Yeah, a saharah or sport with 2.5" lift and 33's or 35's is PLENTY capable for 95% of jeep owners. That setup will take them much farther into a technical trail than most are willing to take it.

I have slowly built up my stock Sahara over time but not before wheeling it and learning what made sense to get and what didn't. I only have a LSD (limited slip diff) and I am able to get through everything the guys with Rubi's and lockers get through. The addition of larger tires does help you get over things easier but as someone said before it takes time to learn your jeep and its gears and how it will work for you without getting heavy on the skinny pedal. I will continue to wheel my Sahara and once it is paid off I will be able to look into larger mods like axles and lockers. My plan is for my jeep to stay with my family for as long as it runs so I am on a long term plan with mine, who knows maybe my son will get it when he is ready to drive and just then I will look into getting a another jeep and by then maybe I'll get to buy an 8cyl right off of the lot. :thumbsup:

My point is that Jeeps are a lifestyle and a hobby; if being practical is your #1 priority, then a jeep is probably not the best choice. The gas mielage is poor and even a four door doesn't have that much room, especially if you have a family, pets etc. A minivan or hybrid economy car would make more sense.

I got a used Rubicon because I wanted to do 35s. I also wanted lockers. I didn't want to do axle swap. For the kind of wheeling I do (moderate) weekend warrior and daily driving it is great. The t-case and sway bar are nice also. If I was gonna do more hardcore wheeling with 37s or bigger I would've got a sport and done dana 60 axles. I am happy with my choice and enjoy it.