Top 10 Ways You're Overcharged for Service
07-17-2009, 09:42 PM
#1
JK Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Top 10 Ways You're Overcharged for Service
When you take your car into a dealership for service you become the target of subtle — and sometimes not-so-subtle — sales pitches from the service advisor. Of course you want to keep your car running, but you also want to cut expenses and avoid unnecessary repairs and service. Check the list below and you'll be ready to deflect many of the come-ons and strategies service advisors use to generate extra profit for themselves and the dealership.
"Dealer recommended service schedules." When you arrive for even a simple oil change or tire rotation the service advisor is likely to present a "dealer recommended" list. Yes, it's impressive-looking, with many complicated and important-sounding items on it. But is it necessary? Experts emphatically say no. Instead, look for what is necessary in your owner's manual. You'll find only a quarter of the things on the dealer's "recommended" list of items.
The "Complete Inspection" scam. "Your car has a lot of miles on it," the service advisor tells you. "It'd be a good idea if we gave it a complete inspection." If you say yes, you've just agreed to pay them to find more work to do on your car. Do you really think the service advisor will call you and say, "Well, we checked everything and it's all perfect." Nope. Not gonna happen.
Too many oil changes. Changing your oil every 3,000 miles costs money, which is what oil-change chain stores want. It also puts you at risk for aggressive "upselling" (see next item) and wastes our precious natural resources. Stick to the schedule in the owner's manual or watch the maintenance minder on your dashboard.
Brace yourself for the "upsell." For a service advisor, an oil change is never just an oil change — it's just the chance to upsell other services. "It'd be a good idea to take a look at the ______ ." (Fill in the blank with one of the following: brakes, cooling system, transmission, fluids, alignment etc.) Practice saying this handy phrase: "No, thank you. Just an oil change."
Early brake jobs. "Your brakes have less than 50 percent of the pads left," the service advisor says with a concerned tone in his voice. Don't fall for this little ploy. Instead, wait until your brakes are down to about 15-20 percent before you schedule your appointment. Or figure how many miles it's been since your last brake job and come back for an inspection when the car has covered that amount.
Having the rotors "turned." Often, when you agree to a brake job, the service advisor will say, "The rotors are grooved — it'd be a good idea to have them turned." On high-end cars this costs $50 per rotor. It's a high-profit item for the dealership and may be completely unnecessary. Consider this: Experts say that new brake pads adapt almost immediately to the surface of the rotor (the shiny disc you can see through your wheels). Furthermore, turning the rotor means cutting off a useful strip of metal; doing so can actually make the brakes more prone to warping due to heat.
Multiple automatic transmission flushes. Service advisors will assure you that you need to change your automatic transmission fluid at 12,000 miles, even though the owner's manual says this isn't needed until the car has 80,000 miles on it. Who's right? Well, the owner's manual was written by the people who built your car. Furthermore, the service advisor makes a commission for recommending that you have this $200 job done. Who would you trust?
Spraying oil on the shock absorbers. One of many things that mechanics do to convince you something is wrong with your car is to spray oil on the shock absorbers. This makes it look like they are leaking hydraulic fluid. Forewarned is forearmed — keep this scam in the back of your mind on your next trip to the dealership.
Replacement parts markup. Dealerships typically charge the highest price for parts. It's convenient to buy from a dealer, but if you want to save money, you can buy the parts from an aftermarket supplier and avoid the huge markup.
Free "check engine light" diagnosis. Some companies offer free diagnosis if your car's "check engine" light is illuminated. OK, the "check engine" light diagnosis is free. But the work they find while resetting the engine light isn't. This "free" offer is just another way to get you in the door and sell you more service than you might really need. To avoid this, you can buy a code reader at an auto parts store that might give you insight as to what's really wrong with your vehicle. Or you can take your vehicle to a mechanic you trust, who will diagnose the problem and fix it for a reasonable fee.
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/...p10service.0.*
"Dealer recommended service schedules." When you arrive for even a simple oil change or tire rotation the service advisor is likely to present a "dealer recommended" list. Yes, it's impressive-looking, with many complicated and important-sounding items on it. But is it necessary? Experts emphatically say no. Instead, look for what is necessary in your owner's manual. You'll find only a quarter of the things on the dealer's "recommended" list of items.
The "Complete Inspection" scam. "Your car has a lot of miles on it," the service advisor tells you. "It'd be a good idea if we gave it a complete inspection." If you say yes, you've just agreed to pay them to find more work to do on your car. Do you really think the service advisor will call you and say, "Well, we checked everything and it's all perfect." Nope. Not gonna happen.
Too many oil changes. Changing your oil every 3,000 miles costs money, which is what oil-change chain stores want. It also puts you at risk for aggressive "upselling" (see next item) and wastes our precious natural resources. Stick to the schedule in the owner's manual or watch the maintenance minder on your dashboard.
Brace yourself for the "upsell." For a service advisor, an oil change is never just an oil change — it's just the chance to upsell other services. "It'd be a good idea to take a look at the ______ ." (Fill in the blank with one of the following: brakes, cooling system, transmission, fluids, alignment etc.) Practice saying this handy phrase: "No, thank you. Just an oil change."
Early brake jobs. "Your brakes have less than 50 percent of the pads left," the service advisor says with a concerned tone in his voice. Don't fall for this little ploy. Instead, wait until your brakes are down to about 15-20 percent before you schedule your appointment. Or figure how many miles it's been since your last brake job and come back for an inspection when the car has covered that amount.
Having the rotors "turned." Often, when you agree to a brake job, the service advisor will say, "The rotors are grooved — it'd be a good idea to have them turned." On high-end cars this costs $50 per rotor. It's a high-profit item for the dealership and may be completely unnecessary. Consider this: Experts say that new brake pads adapt almost immediately to the surface of the rotor (the shiny disc you can see through your wheels). Furthermore, turning the rotor means cutting off a useful strip of metal; doing so can actually make the brakes more prone to warping due to heat.
Multiple automatic transmission flushes. Service advisors will assure you that you need to change your automatic transmission fluid at 12,000 miles, even though the owner's manual says this isn't needed until the car has 80,000 miles on it. Who's right? Well, the owner's manual was written by the people who built your car. Furthermore, the service advisor makes a commission for recommending that you have this $200 job done. Who would you trust?
Spraying oil on the shock absorbers. One of many things that mechanics do to convince you something is wrong with your car is to spray oil on the shock absorbers. This makes it look like they are leaking hydraulic fluid. Forewarned is forearmed — keep this scam in the back of your mind on your next trip to the dealership.
Replacement parts markup. Dealerships typically charge the highest price for parts. It's convenient to buy from a dealer, but if you want to save money, you can buy the parts from an aftermarket supplier and avoid the huge markup.
Free "check engine light" diagnosis. Some companies offer free diagnosis if your car's "check engine" light is illuminated. OK, the "check engine" light diagnosis is free. But the work they find while resetting the engine light isn't. This "free" offer is just another way to get you in the door and sell you more service than you might really need. To avoid this, you can buy a code reader at an auto parts store that might give you insight as to what's really wrong with your vehicle. Or you can take your vehicle to a mechanic you trust, who will diagnose the problem and fix it for a reasonable fee.
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/...p10service.0.*
07-18-2009, 09:07 AM
#3
JK Jedi Master
Anyway, there's nothing on the 15K mile checks, even Schedule B, that you can't do yourself in an hour with basic hand tools. If you're set on having someone else do it, study Schedule A or B (whichever applies to your situation), and stick to it. The dealer will likely try to sell you much more.
07-18-2009, 06:41 PM
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My experience has been that the Service Advisor is the weak link........I've had issues with every one of them I've ever met.........until they realize their ploys to oversell don't work. As someone else said.....forewarned is forearmed.
07-19-2009, 02:52 AM
#6
JK Junkie
In 35 years I've never seen oil sprayed on shock absorbers.... I HAVE had a customer REFUSE to pay for a $1800.00 dollar crash repair because they didn't sign the repair order (denied okaying the work by phone). Worked too. I've been accused of stealing $2500.00 dollars worth of RAP CD's from a man's car when I repaired it ( I was 56 years old, white (I think) and RAP makes me want to PUKE, but it's okay if YOU like it....) 2 days later the NICE man called back and told the boss his nephew had them. At LEAST a 150 ( okay, 200 times) times in 35 years I've seen the customer walk to the opposite side of the repair when picking up the car and claim the repairman DAMAGED this side....I don't touch a car nowadays without doing a walkaround inspection, if there is 10 cents worth of change in the car a member of management must remove it. Leave a tool in a customers car and call them to get it run back by, only once they returned the item, several other times the answer has been ''nope''. So the CROOKS are always on the OTHER side of the fence, depends on which side you are looking thru.....being a automotive repair professional doesn't turn you into a thief, your own NATURE makes you a thief, whether a technician or a customer....
Last edited by TINMAN080; 07-19-2009 at 03:14 AM. Reason: closer to 200 times
07-20-2009, 09:58 AM
#7
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Wow.......you guys go to the dealership? 22K miles on 20 months. One trip to the dealer because the airbag light would not go off....fixed under warantee. 4 oil changes at a lube place. One air filter. If it runs great....leave it the f*ck alone is my motto. I cannot stand the selling styles they have...everyone does it except your local independant wrench.
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07-20-2009, 11:04 PM
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"Dealer recommended service schedules." are probably the most commonly used and useless profit center on that list. Replacing parts that don't need to be replaced probably run a close second.
I can guarantee that most people do the "dealer recommended service schedule" when they take their car in simply because the service writers don't make it clear you don't need 3/4 of that crap to keep your car on the maint. sked.
I can guarantee that most people do the "dealer recommended service schedule" when they take their car in simply because the service writers don't make it clear you don't need 3/4 of that crap to keep your car on the maint. sked.
03-13-2010, 07:08 AM
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I always had a distrust of automotive services, likely inherited from my father (he'd often rant about how this shop or that shop tried to screw him...).
Besides what was passed down from the previous generation, I found that there are 2 core issues that contributed to my continued/growing distrust:
1) I didn't understand the technical issues
2) I always distrusted a technician from the start (guilty before proven innocent)
on (1)
At some point, I hated the feeling of being "raped" at the shop, so I took it upon myself to educate myself better... starting by studying this: http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Automot...8493100&sr=8-8 (out of date, but good enough to get the basics), as well as supplementing my education reading through forums liked this.
I forced myself to do minor maintenance like oil changes, etc... And learned that alot of what I'm paying for is overhead and convenience (eg. had to buy tools (ramps/wrenches/etc... - and quality tools aren't cheap!, bring the oil to a disposal center (which can be annoying and messy), order parts (eg. crush washers, quarts of oil, etc...), and I didn't have a garageat the time,...
What I've found though is that it seems like auto tech services (eg. dealerships) charge a fixed per hour rate (in the northeast it's ~$100/hr) regardless of how technical the job is. (I think in some cases this is analogous to going to a surgeon because you have a cold or a cut).
So for "hard" jobs (eg. timing chain replacement on my previous honda), I'm fine with paying the cost of labor (and in particular their technical expertise)... but for easier jobs (oil changes, light bulb changes (yes a while ago a local shop charged me almost $20 in labor to do this with some cheap bulb (or they marked up the bulb 100% - I was pissed - especially since I just paid $1000+ for some other repairs by them), etc.. I'm way better off investing the time to do it myself... I'm learning slowly (eg. recent installed a snorkel, and will be changing diff covers shortly (dealership wanted $300+ to just change the diff oil!)....
on (2)
After I've educated myself, I realized how completely unfair I was to distrust every auto tech;... I've had the pleasure of dealing with some really quality folks, problem is that I've had to deal with alot of bad ones to find the one good one! (Anyone have recommendations in the Westchester County, NY area?)
What I characterize as "good" is someone that takes the 5 min to educate me on the problem in layman's terms (the more "technical" the terms are, the more I think you're trying to make the problem more over complicated that it is). Dialog from a "good tech" might go something like this eg. "The job itself is easy to fix because of X, but the design of the engine requires parts ABC to be dismantled, and at $100/hr, the entire job will cost this $Y. You have 2 options: do it now, or wait - but know that this might happen, etc..."
Most "bad" techs don't want to take the time to educate, or don't want you to wait, because they don't want to lose the business right there (maybe they are afraid you'll shop around). I even paid a honda dealership to diagnose a bad engine (I suspect a blown gasket), and for 1hr's worth of time ($100) they came back with "yes, the engine is bad and needs to be replaced" - yeah, that really made me feel like I got my money's worth. I mean at least they could have given some reasons for why (blown gaskets?), some options + costs?, or at least why they couldn't give me more details (eg. work involved to diagnose would be too costly), etc... Basically I paid them to tell me what I had already diagnosed myself.
The "good" techs are confident you'll probably come back (maybe not for this "easy" job - but certainly for the "big" jobs) since they have such a loyal following (and they are so backed up with work!). I've even had some techs recommend doing the job myself since they knew that had to charge the standard per hour cost (and the job itself was easy).
The problem with finding a good one is, that their customer base is incredibly loyal - eg. i might not get an appt slot for a week or so! So if your rig is a daily driver, you might need to go someplace "faster"... and guess what, dealerships are usually equipped for speedy service (but you'll pay!)
anyway, that was my $0.02... I'm definitely a noob, but enjoy the learning process! And as I educate myself I have a better idea of the type of service(s) are worth paying for.
Discuss!
Besides what was passed down from the previous generation, I found that there are 2 core issues that contributed to my continued/growing distrust:
1) I didn't understand the technical issues
2) I always distrusted a technician from the start (guilty before proven innocent)
on (1)
At some point, I hated the feeling of being "raped" at the shop, so I took it upon myself to educate myself better... starting by studying this: http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Automot...8493100&sr=8-8 (out of date, but good enough to get the basics), as well as supplementing my education reading through forums liked this.
I forced myself to do minor maintenance like oil changes, etc... And learned that alot of what I'm paying for is overhead and convenience (eg. had to buy tools (ramps/wrenches/etc... - and quality tools aren't cheap!, bring the oil to a disposal center (which can be annoying and messy), order parts (eg. crush washers, quarts of oil, etc...), and I didn't have a garageat the time,...
What I've found though is that it seems like auto tech services (eg. dealerships) charge a fixed per hour rate (in the northeast it's ~$100/hr) regardless of how technical the job is. (I think in some cases this is analogous to going to a surgeon because you have a cold or a cut).
So for "hard" jobs (eg. timing chain replacement on my previous honda), I'm fine with paying the cost of labor (and in particular their technical expertise)... but for easier jobs (oil changes, light bulb changes (yes a while ago a local shop charged me almost $20 in labor to do this with some cheap bulb (or they marked up the bulb 100% - I was pissed - especially since I just paid $1000+ for some other repairs by them), etc.. I'm way better off investing the time to do it myself... I'm learning slowly (eg. recent installed a snorkel, and will be changing diff covers shortly (dealership wanted $300+ to just change the diff oil!)....
on (2)
After I've educated myself, I realized how completely unfair I was to distrust every auto tech;... I've had the pleasure of dealing with some really quality folks, problem is that I've had to deal with alot of bad ones to find the one good one! (Anyone have recommendations in the Westchester County, NY area?)
What I characterize as "good" is someone that takes the 5 min to educate me on the problem in layman's terms (the more "technical" the terms are, the more I think you're trying to make the problem more over complicated that it is). Dialog from a "good tech" might go something like this eg. "The job itself is easy to fix because of X, but the design of the engine requires parts ABC to be dismantled, and at $100/hr, the entire job will cost this $Y. You have 2 options: do it now, or wait - but know that this might happen, etc..."
Most "bad" techs don't want to take the time to educate, or don't want you to wait, because they don't want to lose the business right there (maybe they are afraid you'll shop around). I even paid a honda dealership to diagnose a bad engine (I suspect a blown gasket), and for 1hr's worth of time ($100) they came back with "yes, the engine is bad and needs to be replaced" - yeah, that really made me feel like I got my money's worth. I mean at least they could have given some reasons for why (blown gaskets?), some options + costs?, or at least why they couldn't give me more details (eg. work involved to diagnose would be too costly), etc... Basically I paid them to tell me what I had already diagnosed myself.
The "good" techs are confident you'll probably come back (maybe not for this "easy" job - but certainly for the "big" jobs) since they have such a loyal following (and they are so backed up with work!). I've even had some techs recommend doing the job myself since they knew that had to charge the standard per hour cost (and the job itself was easy).
The problem with finding a good one is, that their customer base is incredibly loyal - eg. i might not get an appt slot for a week or so! So if your rig is a daily driver, you might need to go someplace "faster"... and guess what, dealerships are usually equipped for speedy service (but you'll pay!)
anyway, that was my $0.02... I'm definitely a noob, but enjoy the learning process! And as I educate myself I have a better idea of the type of service(s) are worth paying for.
Discuss!
03-13-2010, 07:30 AM
#10
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I've been overcharged so much in the past -- always labor fees that kill me -- that I don't ever return unless it's something I know will be covered under warranty. But other then warranty issues, I've dedicated to learning about my Jeep by working on it myself, even if it takes 3-4 times longer than it should. Luckily, I had a TJ prior and learned through trial and error on that. 