V8 for 2008 FJ
06-27-2007, 02:18 PM
#11
JK Super Freak
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I normally don't do this, but I can't let this one go.
1.) Toyota is not pretending to be American. However they are serving American in the fact that they provide tens of thousands of good paying jobs to Americans. In stead of moving manufacturing to Mexico, China and India like the Big Three, Toyota is creating more American jobs. The revenue they make in the U.S. stays here and is reinvested. Toyota does not pull all their revenues back to Japan due to the tax issues.
2.) The camshaft problem has been limited to 20 trucks out of the 30,000 plus they have sold. That is less than 0.06% of the trucks. (There is a much higher account of the Stall Bug in the JK than this.) Toyota uses a Just-In-Time manufacturing technique to prevent excessive inventory on parts. Due to this, they have very small batches of parts. Once the problem was found, they pulled the affected camshafts and corrected the manufacturing defect with the supplier. Toyota's Just-In-Time business model prevented this from being a mass scale problem. In addition, Toyota has stated they would provide a complete engine replacement and 100% like-for-like loaner truck for anyone affected by the camshaft issue.
3.) A fully boxed frame does not equal a superior frame. About the only thing it guarantees is unnecessary weight to the vehicle. Much like skyscraper buildings are designed to sway and give some, a truck frame should do the same. If a frame is too rigid then it is actually more likely to break than a more flexible frame. The flexible frame absorbs and transfers energy, the overly stiff frame breaks under the stress because it has no way to dissipate the energy.
4.) Style is a subjective issue. Like it or hate it, it is what it is. No one said you had to like it.
5.) Only time will tell how long the Tundra will last. However, if I were a betting man, I would not bet against Toyota. Anyone with common sense can look at Toyota's past record. For that matter, look at DCX's track record, it was bailed out by the U.S. government. I look at auto companies just like an investor looks at stocks. I ask who has shown they can perform on a consistent basis and give me a good return. Toyota and Honda represent the best value in automobiles. They have fewer repairs, last longer, and return a much higher resale value. Overall, they cost less to own than another domestic brand. Why should I buy a “domestic” brand unless it offers something the others can’t? DING, DING we have a winner! The JK does offer things the others can’t match; solid front axle, electronic sway bar disconnect, lockers front & rear, and an open top.
You can hate "import" auto companies all you want. Just have your event details, engineering, business model, and your facts straight before you post an inflammatory statement. I love my JK and would have not bought anything else, but I'm not going to trash another company just because they are a worthy business adversary.
1.) Toyota is not pretending to be American. However they are serving American in the fact that they provide tens of thousands of good paying jobs to Americans. In stead of moving manufacturing to Mexico, China and India like the Big Three, Toyota is creating more American jobs. The revenue they make in the U.S. stays here and is reinvested. Toyota does not pull all their revenues back to Japan due to the tax issues.
2.) The camshaft problem has been limited to 20 trucks out of the 30,000 plus they have sold. That is less than 0.06% of the trucks. (There is a much higher account of the Stall Bug in the JK than this.) Toyota uses a Just-In-Time manufacturing technique to prevent excessive inventory on parts. Due to this, they have very small batches of parts. Once the problem was found, they pulled the affected camshafts and corrected the manufacturing defect with the supplier. Toyota's Just-In-Time business model prevented this from being a mass scale problem. In addition, Toyota has stated they would provide a complete engine replacement and 100% like-for-like loaner truck for anyone affected by the camshaft issue.
3.) A fully boxed frame does not equal a superior frame. About the only thing it guarantees is unnecessary weight to the vehicle. Much like skyscraper buildings are designed to sway and give some, a truck frame should do the same. If a frame is too rigid then it is actually more likely to break than a more flexible frame. The flexible frame absorbs and transfers energy, the overly stiff frame breaks under the stress because it has no way to dissipate the energy.
4.) Style is a subjective issue. Like it or hate it, it is what it is. No one said you had to like it.
5.) Only time will tell how long the Tundra will last. However, if I were a betting man, I would not bet against Toyota. Anyone with common sense can look at Toyota's past record. For that matter, look at DCX's track record, it was bailed out by the U.S. government. I look at auto companies just like an investor looks at stocks. I ask who has shown they can perform on a consistent basis and give me a good return. Toyota and Honda represent the best value in automobiles. They have fewer repairs, last longer, and return a much higher resale value. Overall, they cost less to own than another domestic brand. Why should I buy a “domestic” brand unless it offers something the others can’t? DING, DING we have a winner! The JK does offer things the others can’t match; solid front axle, electronic sway bar disconnect, lockers front & rear, and an open top.
You can hate "import" auto companies all you want. Just have your event details, engineering, business model, and your facts straight before you post an inflammatory statement. I love my JK and would have not bought anything else, but I'm not going to trash another company just because they are a worthy business adversary.
2. All 30,000 were built in the same date as the 20 Tundras W/ the Camshaft issues. I bet more and more will be having to have their engine replaced.
3. You have no clue what your talking about. Stronger=Better. The Tundras frame is a Joke. Thats why the Nissan titan failed. They claimed to have gret stuff, but other than the Nissans engine, the truck was a POS. They used Dana 35's as the rear axles for a 1/2 ton truck. Our Jeeps are not as HD as a 1/2 ton truck, and we have dana 44 rear axles.
Watch this and tell me the Tundra's frame is better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRfE_XAk2mE
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWjTb...elated&search=
4. Yes: true. I agree style is subjective.
5. In terms of Trucks, you cannot go wrong with a Ram, F150 or Sierra/Silverado. They all have Good suspension components, proven engines and trannys. I know that DCX has made some pretty bad crap in the 90's but their trucks have always been solid. Sure the Tundra has 381 HP, but do you really need to go fast in a Pickup truck, If I did I would go out and buy a Harley Davidson F150(For 08 it has the Ford GT's Engine) or a Ram SRT10.
The last Gen tundras has Automatic tranny problems all the time. And in recent study's, Its been proven that Ford and GM have over taken Toyota in Quality in the last 5 years. As soon as Toyota started to get big, their quality dropped due to their demand of them wanting to be #1. Gm stopped worrying about being #1, and now their quality is at the Top. Even though it may not appear due to the media having a Toyota Bias, GM makes way better products. Go drive a new Saturn such as the Aura, Astra or Outlook. Or drive the new Cadillac CTS coming out.
GM is the best Car Company on the Planet(Except for Hummer of Course!)
06-27-2007, 04:05 PM
#12
JK Super Freak
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I'm going to turn right back around and correct a few other things. Now, my last car was a Subaru with a Saab badge, and my wife drives a Toyota with a Pontiac badge, so I'm not one of those people that beats people down if they have American flags on their Hondas. That being said,
They way they are able to do this is because the government has been giving tax breaks to them to build plants. Also, the Big 2.5 (I guess they are 3 again) can't build new plants without making them unionized, whereas a fairly high number of the import plants are not unionized. Makes a huge difference in how much they have to pay their workers. Before this becomes a union/anti-union thread, I'm not saying one is better than the other, but if they both don't do it, it is hard to compare them. Also, more of their profit goes back overseas than doesn't, but they do but some raw materials here as well. Post consumer content indices are lower for some US made imports, but higher for others, so nobody can make all encompassing statements about them yet.
No argument here, new vehicle, new problems, they are doing a decent job with this, unlike the past, where they would TSB everything.
Fully boxed means it is stronger. The reason the domestics went that way is because too many of the complaints they received were something on the order of "it rides like a truck". Subjectively, most people say that the box and cowl on the Toyota shake a lot more than the fully boxed frames. Doesn't mean a whole lot when it comes to towing though. Diesel semi's aren't fully boxed and are designed to have a lot of flex, but they carry a lot more torque. So far there haven't been too many reports of frames breaking while towing for any that I have seen.
Agreed. However, they are giving some big incentives on them right now because for whatever reasons, people just aren't buying them like Toyota thought they would.
The fewer repairs and lasting longer things are throwbacks from the 70s and 80s. Toyota has had years with more recalls than GM, which is odd, because GM outsells them close to 2-1 in this market. The resale issues are because the market has been way too slow to change, and the domestics have been placing too many incentives on the hoods of their cars. This last model year they have tried to change that, and it is working pretty well.
However, if I were a betting man, I would see that Toyota is 0-2 in the fullsize market so far, and with the troubles the Titan is having breaking in the market, even with the engine they have, I don't foresee them being higher than 3rd in the market, way behind Ford and Chevy.
He is 15 afterall. But yeah, too many of these threads end up being "well, your mom is XXXXX" or something.
1.) Toyota is not pretending to be American. However they are serving American in the fact that they provide tens of thousands of good paying jobs to Americans. In stead of moving manufacturing to Mexico, China and India like the Big Three, Toyota is creating more American jobs. The revenue they make in the U.S. stays here and is reinvested. Toyota does not pull all their revenues back to Japan due to the tax issues.
2.) The camshaft problem has been limited to 20 trucks out of the 30,000 plus they have sold. That is less than 0.06% of the trucks. (There is a much higher account of the Stall Bug in the JK than this.) Toyota uses a Just-In-Time manufacturing technique to prevent excessive inventory on parts. Due to this, they have very small batches of parts. Once the problem was found, they pulled the affected camshafts and corrected the manufacturing defect with the supplier. Toyota's Just-In-Time business model prevented this from being a mass scale problem. In addition, Toyota has stated they would provide a complete engine replacement and 100% like-for-like loaner truck for anyone affected by the camshaft issue.
3.) A fully boxed frame does not equal a superior frame. About the only thing it guarantees is unnecessary weight to the vehicle. Much like skyscraper buildings are designed to sway and give some, a truck frame should do the same. If a frame is too rigid then it is actually more likely to break than a more flexible frame. The flexible frame absorbs and transfers energy, the overly stiff frame breaks under the stress because it has no way to dissipate the energy.
4.) Style is a subjective issue. Like it or hate it, it is what it is. No one said you had to like it.
5.) Only time will tell how long the Tundra will last. However, if I were a betting man, I would not bet against Toyota. Anyone with common sense can look at Toyota's past record. For that matter, look at DCX's track record, it was bailed out by the U.S. government. I look at auto companies just like an investor looks at stocks. I ask who has shown they can perform on a consistent basis and give me a good return. Toyota and Honda represent the best value in automobiles. They have fewer repairs, last longer, and return a much higher resale value. Overall, they cost less to own than another domestic brand. Why should I buy a “domestic” brand unless it offers something the others can’t? DING, DING we have a winner! The JK does offer things the others can’t match; solid front axle, electronic sway bar disconnect, lockers front & rear, and an open top.
However, if I were a betting man, I would see that Toyota is 0-2 in the fullsize market so far, and with the troubles the Titan is having breaking in the market, even with the engine they have, I don't foresee them being higher than 3rd in the market, way behind Ford and Chevy.
You can hate "import" auto companies all you want. Just have your event details, engineering, business model, and your facts straight before you post an inflammatory statement. I love my JK and would have not bought anything else, but I'm not going to trash another company just because they are a worthy business adversary.
06-27-2007, 05:22 PM
#14
JK Super Freak
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06-29-2007, 12:15 PM
#15
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Here are some cars made in Canada. In other words, these are imports if you are an American:
Acura CSX + MDX
Chrysler Chrysler Pacifica
Chrysler Town & Country
Dodge Caravan
Dodge Magnum
Chrysler 300 series
Dodge Charger
Ford Crown Victoria
Mercury Grand Marquis
Freestar
Mercury Monterey
Edge
Lincoln MKX
Flex
General Motors
Chevrolet Impala
Chevrolet Monte Carlo
Buick Allure
Pontiac Grand Prix
Chevrolet Equinox
Pontiac Torrent
Chevrolet Silverado
GMC Sierra
Diesel Locomotives
Light Armored Vehicles
Honda Civic
Odyssey
Ridgeline
Pilot
Kenworth T300 Medium Duty Truck
Suzuki XL7
Toyota Corolla
Lexus RX350
Matrix
Thank you everyone, back to the bloated back-patting.
Acura CSX + MDX
Chrysler Chrysler Pacifica
Chrysler Town & Country
Dodge Caravan
Dodge Magnum
Chrysler 300 series
Dodge Charger
Ford Crown Victoria
Mercury Grand Marquis
Freestar
Mercury Monterey
Edge
Lincoln MKX
Flex
General Motors
Chevrolet Impala
Chevrolet Monte Carlo
Buick Allure
Pontiac Grand Prix
Chevrolet Equinox
Pontiac Torrent
Chevrolet Silverado
GMC Sierra
Diesel Locomotives
Light Armored Vehicles
Honda Civic
Odyssey
Ridgeline
Pilot
Kenworth T300 Medium Duty Truck
Suzuki XL7
Toyota Corolla
Lexus RX350
Matrix
Thank you everyone, back to the bloated back-patting.
06-29-2007, 12:57 PM
#17
JK Enthusiast
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3. You have no clue what your talking about. Stronger=Better. The Tundras frame is a Joke. Thats why the Nissan titan failed. They claimed to have gret stuff, but other than the Nissans engine, the truck was a POS. They used Dana 35's as the rear axles for a 1/2 ton truck. Our Jeeps are not as HD as a 1/2 ton truck, and we have dana 44 rear axles.
07-02-2007, 11:05 AM
#18
JK Super Freak
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07-02-2007, 11:09 AM
#19
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I agree with that........that's why the Toyota is so much better in the 1/2 ton market. It could almost be sold as a 3/4 ton with the drivetrain they put under it.
07-03-2007, 10:35 AM
#20
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the tundra frame used in the video was the old tundra. not the new tundra, the new one uses a mixture of boxing and open c-channel
http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/minis...directlink=360
check out the frame section, also the videos against the competition are pretty impressive.
http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/minis...directlink=360
check out the frame section, also the videos against the competition are pretty impressive.