Why a Stick Shift Matters ...
03-18-2015, 12:18 PM
#11
JK Super Freak
I'm glad to see fellow Jeepers as passionate about the bond that one forms with their vehicle by simply driving it. Listening and feeling for when it needs to shift up, down or coast in neutral puts you in constant control. And it also makes you feel like you're giving a little extra TLC back to a vehicle that we expect to work extra hard for us. Plus it makes driving more engaging.
Maybe by picking its gears for it, it doesn't have to think as hard and can focus on other things. Maybe it feels like a little "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" mentality. Like we're both in this together. And yes I realize I'm speaking about my vehicle as if it were alive. I consider it to be strange if you don't. I know this debate will never be solved as long as there are vehicles that don't drive themselves. And a manual transmission is not for everybody. But coming from a community that loves their rigs more than their jobs, significant others, or in some cases more than their kids, I feel you owe it to yourself and to your Jeep to feel that extra connection. And it doesn't hurt to hear it coming from one of the most respected and looked up to members of the forum. (Mark, not me)
I often wonder if those people who are so quick to slam the 6 speed, or mention KOH as a means of self-defense, do so out of the same passion for their "point and shoot" method of driving an auto, or if I'm missing something deeper. And I'm also convinced that some just don't know how to drive one. Hence the hostile tone when defending themselves. Just my .02. And I'm sure I'll get flamed for it. Jeep on.
Maybe by picking its gears for it, it doesn't have to think as hard and can focus on other things. Maybe it feels like a little "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" mentality. Like we're both in this together. And yes I realize I'm speaking about my vehicle as if it were alive. I consider it to be strange if you don't. I know this debate will never be solved as long as there are vehicles that don't drive themselves. And a manual transmission is not for everybody. But coming from a community that loves their rigs more than their jobs, significant others, or in some cases more than their kids, I feel you owe it to yourself and to your Jeep to feel that extra connection. And it doesn't hurt to hear it coming from one of the most respected and looked up to members of the forum. (Mark, not me)
I often wonder if those people who are so quick to slam the 6 speed, or mention KOH as a means of self-defense, do so out of the same passion for their "point and shoot" method of driving an auto, or if I'm missing something deeper. And I'm also convinced that some just don't know how to drive one. Hence the hostile tone when defending themselves. Just my .02. And I'm sure I'll get flamed for it. Jeep on.
03-18-2015, 12:40 PM
#12
JK Super Freak
On occasion when the subject of stick versus auto comes up on the forum I chime in as one of the lovers of rowing the gears. There's just nothing like the feeling of making the decision of when to shift--listening to that snick as you stroke the shifter (more pleasant on some vehicles than others, sadly our Jeep JKs rank rather low in snick factor). There are a number of complaints that you hear about the manual transmissions, and these often include "My wife can't drive one", "I have a long stop and go commute to work", "I drive a manual truck all day and that's enough for me" and the worst excuse of all: "An auto is faster than a stick." It's that last one that I want to expound on for a few moments of your time.
Who here is surprised that a computer can do something faster than a human? I doubt anyone is. Soon there will be self-driving cars. Do you plan to give up your steering wheel because your Jeep can now find its own way? Suppose I told you that because it's guided by a computer, there's no way that your pitiful steering inputs could outperform a self-driving Jeep? It's faster!
Now, let's take it a step farther and provide a computer that analyzes the road ahead. Except, in this case it's a really smart computer: It can look at rough trails and in a split second determine the fastest path through it for you. Now not only do you not need to shift gears or steer, but you can just kick back and have a beer while your "Jeep" navigates its way over the most difficult of technical terrain.
Imagine for a moment if the King of Hammers was run with a bunch of self-driving Jeeps. After all, why shouldn't we have a competition where the best geeks and mechanics win. Heck, we don't even need drivers, do we?
Well, the answer to this is obvious. The KOH isn't a competition between geeks. It's a competition between the drivers in the best outfitted vehicles that should allow those drivers to display extraordinary driving skills. To be honest, I lose respect for any that are out there driving an auto. That isn't driving. Not any more than it would be if it was a self-driving car with a computer doing route analysis and steering and gas pedal and brake control. The driver needs to be able to use gas, clutch and brake to keep the vehicle upright and in the lead. No computers, no excuses.
And, as for those of you who's wives (or husbands or daughters or whatever) can't drive: Teach them. If you have a long stop and go commute, shift not only your gears but your attitude and learn to appreciate that you still can have fun driving stick at other times that offsets the nuisance of heavy traffic. And if your job makes you drive a truck all day, appreciate that you get to drive a Jeep otherwise--and driving includes shifting. Anything less is just one step from a self-driving car. How boring.
Who here is surprised that a computer can do something faster than a human? I doubt anyone is. Soon there will be self-driving cars. Do you plan to give up your steering wheel because your Jeep can now find its own way? Suppose I told you that because it's guided by a computer, there's no way that your pitiful steering inputs could outperform a self-driving Jeep? It's faster!
Now, let's take it a step farther and provide a computer that analyzes the road ahead. Except, in this case it's a really smart computer: It can look at rough trails and in a split second determine the fastest path through it for you. Now not only do you not need to shift gears or steer, but you can just kick back and have a beer while your "Jeep" navigates its way over the most difficult of technical terrain.
Imagine for a moment if the King of Hammers was run with a bunch of self-driving Jeeps. After all, why shouldn't we have a competition where the best geeks and mechanics win. Heck, we don't even need drivers, do we?
Well, the answer to this is obvious. The KOH isn't a competition between geeks. It's a competition between the drivers in the best outfitted vehicles that should allow those drivers to display extraordinary driving skills. To be honest, I lose respect for any that are out there driving an auto. That isn't driving. Not any more than it would be if it was a self-driving car with a computer doing route analysis and steering and gas pedal and brake control. The driver needs to be able to use gas, clutch and brake to keep the vehicle upright and in the lead. No computers, no excuses.
And, as for those of you who's wives (or husbands or daughters or whatever) can't drive: Teach them. If you have a long stop and go commute, shift not only your gears but your attitude and learn to appreciate that you still can have fun driving stick at other times that offsets the nuisance of heavy traffic. And if your job makes you drive a truck all day, appreciate that you get to drive a Jeep otherwise--and driving includes shifting. Anything less is just one step from a self-driving car. How boring.
What I don't understand is why these threads keep creeping up. Is it a question of your manhood? Does handling the stick make you feel like a man again? You know they make pills for that now. I have a manual JK and a auto JK. And I can tell you that no one gives a rats ass if I am in front of them driving a auto vs manual. Drive what you want. Stop trying to justify it to everyone else.
I don't complain that people are using a rim fire ammo in a semi-auto pistol vs an single shot flint lock because that was the way real men use to do it.
03-18-2015, 01:03 PM
#13
JK Super Freak
I have to agree with Mark.
I can't help it, I have straight disdain for auto transmissions. I don't level any judgment at those that drive them. I just personally can't stand an auto transmission. I still feel that they are lazy slush-boxes that are always trying to second guess what I, as the driver, am planning to do next. Yes, they are getting better than the older ones used to be, but they still don't do it for me. And, yeah the computer can change gears faster, but only after it has made a decision on what it thinks I want it to do based on a pre-determined set of parameters. I don't like that. I feel basically the same way about that damn traction control. I don't want either in my Jeep. Traction control belongs on something like a Ferrari or a Lambo, you know something with enough horsepower to justify having it, but not on a little 285 horse 3.6. It is just one more thing to take the fun out of the drive.
Anyway, That is all.
Happy Jeeping.
I can't help it, I have straight disdain for auto transmissions. I don't level any judgment at those that drive them. I just personally can't stand an auto transmission. I still feel that they are lazy slush-boxes that are always trying to second guess what I, as the driver, am planning to do next. Yes, they are getting better than the older ones used to be, but they still don't do it for me. And, yeah the computer can change gears faster, but only after it has made a decision on what it thinks I want it to do based on a pre-determined set of parameters. I don't like that. I feel basically the same way about that damn traction control. I don't want either in my Jeep. Traction control belongs on something like a Ferrari or a Lambo, you know something with enough horsepower to justify having it, but not on a little 285 horse 3.6. It is just one more thing to take the fun out of the drive.
Anyway, That is all.
Happy Jeeping.
03-18-2015, 01:08 PM
#14
My two cents:
1) i have an auto cuz it was what was available when i looked at my previously owned JK.
2) i love driving stick too, but there's nothing worse for u and ur vehicle than sitting in stop and go traffic with a stick.
3) i think stick is only "fun" when you're driving to drive. Not commuting or getting from A to B. Great when driving fast, curvy roads, etc.. It is a hassle otherwise imo.
4) autos are the way of the future and there is not stopping that. We're losing our tactile interface with our vehicles just a touch, but the benefits of newer autos far outweigh the cons imo.
5) the one thing iv thot may trump all else in the debate concerning our Jk's is the ability to push start. I agree this would be a dealbreaker for me when i think about it. But honestly, when overlanding or trail riding, camping, where and how would you push start a 5-6000+lb vehicle on an uneven surface?
6) last thought.. I wudnt own a muscle car or other fast, quick and/or nimble car without it being a manual. But otherwise im content with autos and having one less thing to do and think about during normal driving. (Normal for me is mostly urban driving, commuting)
1) i have an auto cuz it was what was available when i looked at my previously owned JK.
2) i love driving stick too, but there's nothing worse for u and ur vehicle than sitting in stop and go traffic with a stick.
3) i think stick is only "fun" when you're driving to drive. Not commuting or getting from A to B. Great when driving fast, curvy roads, etc.. It is a hassle otherwise imo.
4) autos are the way of the future and there is not stopping that. We're losing our tactile interface with our vehicles just a touch, but the benefits of newer autos far outweigh the cons imo.
5) the one thing iv thot may trump all else in the debate concerning our Jk's is the ability to push start. I agree this would be a dealbreaker for me when i think about it. But honestly, when overlanding or trail riding, camping, where and how would you push start a 5-6000+lb vehicle on an uneven surface?
6) last thought.. I wudnt own a muscle car or other fast, quick and/or nimble car without it being a manual. But otherwise im content with autos and having one less thing to do and think about during normal driving. (Normal for me is mostly urban driving, commuting)
03-18-2015, 01:23 PM
#15
JK Jedi Master
Thread Starter
LOL: I've been thinking for the past couple weeks how I was going to write this. I even considered writing it in an abusive style ... you know, like that Jeep Craig's List ad where " you don't deserve this Jeep if you don't understand", or like the "How to cook a fracking steak" video. But I figured better to not hurl insults at forum members just to get a few coarse laughs. All of us are different, and perhaps had I written in that style you'd have understood. Regardless, I didn't. But, you'll find I don't respond to baseless insults by hurling my own. I've been on this forum a long enough time to learn that little is gained by that.
03-18-2015, 01:29 PM
#16
JK Enthusiast
Join Date: Nov 2013
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I remember the wife asking me when to change gear. I said you'll feel it. She said the manual says 1st is xx, 2nd is xx..... I nearly slapped her with the owners manual... Trying to explain that driving a manual is more of a feel than a drive by numbers.
03-18-2015, 01:30 PM
#17
JK Junkie
My two cents:
1) i have an auto cuz it was what was available when i looked at my previously owned JK.
2) i love driving stick too, but there's nothing worse for u and ur vehicle than sitting in stop and go traffic with a stick.
3) i think stick is only "fun" when you're driving to drive. Not commuting or getting from A to B. Great when driving fast, curvy roads, etc.. It is a hassle otherwise imo.
4) autos are the way of the future and there is not stopping that. We're losing our tactile interface with our vehicles just a touch, but the benefits of newer autos far outweigh the cons imo.
5) the one thing iv thot may trump all else in the debate concerning our Jk's is the ability to push start. I agree this would be a dealbreaker for me when i think about it. But honestly, when overlanding or trail riding, camping, where and how would you push start a 5-6000+lb vehicle on an uneven surface?
6) last thought.. I wudnt own a muscle car or other fast, quick and/or nimble car without it being a manual. But otherwise im content with autos and having one less thing to do and think about during normal driving. (Normal for me is mostly urban driving, commuting)
1) i have an auto cuz it was what was available when i looked at my previously owned JK.
2) i love driving stick too, but there's nothing worse for u and ur vehicle than sitting in stop and go traffic with a stick.
3) i think stick is only "fun" when you're driving to drive. Not commuting or getting from A to B. Great when driving fast, curvy roads, etc.. It is a hassle otherwise imo.
4) autos are the way of the future and there is not stopping that. We're losing our tactile interface with our vehicles just a touch, but the benefits of newer autos far outweigh the cons imo.
5) the one thing iv thot may trump all else in the debate concerning our Jk's is the ability to push start. I agree this would be a dealbreaker for me when i think about it. But honestly, when overlanding or trail riding, camping, where and how would you push start a 5-6000+lb vehicle on an uneven surface?
6) last thought.. I wudnt own a muscle car or other fast, quick and/or nimble car without it being a manual. But otherwise im content with autos and having one less thing to do and think about during normal driving. (Normal for me is mostly urban driving, commuting)
But this is Murica and to each his own. If it makes you feel like you're driving a sports car or a tractor then I say go for it. After all, isn't that why men are king of the grills? Brings back our caveman days and a feeling of manliness. Row away, my friends, row away.
03-18-2015, 01:36 PM
#18
JK Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2013
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It's the "human factor" involved in driving a stick.
It's the skill and timing of lowering or reving the RPM'S, changing the gear and releasing and engaging the clutch to make the transition smoothly. More often than not, the passenger can sense the "quality" of the shift. It's more pronounced in the lower gears, and smoother in the higher gears. Most anyone can shift from 5th to 6th with barely a noticeable hiccup. But at speed, going from 1'st to 2nd or 3'rd, making it silky smooth takes a dexterity of hand and foot (both feet, actually) that belies the average person's ability. I have an automatic in my Silverado because they don't make a stick. My JK is a stick because it's a "fun machine", as is my motorcycle...although shifting it is a slightly different procedure.
Automatics, even with the manual + or - when in the "manual mode" is just pushing a button, and doesn't compare to using a stick. They do have a place in the driving world, and for most people it gets the job done.
For some, the automatic is trouble free and doesn't require extra mental or physical considerations, and lets the driver enjoy the experience for other reasons.
I prefer the manual tranny for my own reasons.....just as I prefer staying in 2wd as long as possible before surrendering my vehicle to 4wd. I like to "push the envelope", and it drives my wife crazy. She's always saying "Why the hell did we spend extra for 4WD if you're not going to use it?" I just tell her that it's to keep me sharp, so that when I'm in a 2WD vehicle, I won't get stuck.
It's the skill and timing of lowering or reving the RPM'S, changing the gear and releasing and engaging the clutch to make the transition smoothly. More often than not, the passenger can sense the "quality" of the shift. It's more pronounced in the lower gears, and smoother in the higher gears. Most anyone can shift from 5th to 6th with barely a noticeable hiccup. But at speed, going from 1'st to 2nd or 3'rd, making it silky smooth takes a dexterity of hand and foot (both feet, actually) that belies the average person's ability. I have an automatic in my Silverado because they don't make a stick. My JK is a stick because it's a "fun machine", as is my motorcycle...although shifting it is a slightly different procedure.
Automatics, even with the manual + or - when in the "manual mode" is just pushing a button, and doesn't compare to using a stick. They do have a place in the driving world, and for most people it gets the job done.
For some, the automatic is trouble free and doesn't require extra mental or physical considerations, and lets the driver enjoy the experience for other reasons.
I prefer the manual tranny for my own reasons.....just as I prefer staying in 2wd as long as possible before surrendering my vehicle to 4wd. I like to "push the envelope", and it drives my wife crazy. She's always saying "Why the hell did we spend extra for 4WD if you're not going to use it?" I just tell her that it's to keep me sharp, so that when I'm in a 2WD vehicle, I won't get stuck.
03-18-2015, 01:42 PM
#19
JK Super Freak
LOL: I've been thinking for the past couple weeks how I was going to write this. I even considered writing it in an abusive style ... you know, like that Jeep Craig's List ad where " you don't deserve this Jeep if you don't understand", or like the "How to cook a fracking steak" video. But I figured better to not hurl insults at forum members just to get a few coarse laughs. All of us are different, and perhaps had I written in that style you'd have understood. Regardless, I didn't. But, you'll find I don't respond to baseless insults by hurling my own. I've been on this forum a long enough time to learn that little is gained by that.
03-18-2015, 01:47 PM
#20
JK Super Freak
I'm with Chef. I have both a stick vehicle and an auto. When I am in a "driving" mood, it's the stick. And the stick allows me to get every last ounce of performance out of the vehicle (it's a sports car). It's the upshifting coming onto the straightaway and the down shifting when trying to clip the apex perfectly. Pushing the redline a little more than you should. But when commuting to work or creeping along trails, I see no extra value in having a stick. And actually for commuting in the city I consider it a drawback.
But this is Murica and to each his own. If it makes you feel like you're driving a sports car or a tractor then I say go for it. After all, isn't that why men are king of the grills? Brings back our caveman days and a feeling of manliness. Row away, my friends, row away.
But this is Murica and to each his own. If it makes you feel like you're driving a sports car or a tractor then I say go for it. After all, isn't that why men are king of the grills? Brings back our caveman days and a feeling of manliness. Row away, my friends, row away.
The thing I hate hate HATE HATE is the way the shift lever flops around with the slightest bump like the thing is going to fall out. I've owned nothing but manuals my whole life, and the Rubicon was the first auto for me and 6 months later I purchased the sport in a manual to put the miles on. And the Auto Rubicon is just an absolute pleasure to drive. I hatej having to drive the sport anymore.