Grand canyon or canyonlands?
06-14-2013, 06:33 AM
#1
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Grand canyon or canyonlands?
I am planning a 2 week driving trip out west. I always plan vacations well in advance, the trip is for mid may next year. Other parks and parts of the trip are set, but we have 3-4 days in the middle for jeeping and back country camping. It will be me, the wife, and our 8year old daughter. So, the question is "Grand Canyon or Canyonlands?" And which parts? Would love to hear all opinions. Thanks guys.
06-14-2013, 06:54 AM
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I have not been to the canyon lands but the grand canyon is pretty cool but not 3-4 days worth of cool in my opinion. Unless you are planning on doing some backcountry hiking and camping i would say go check out hte grand canyon for a day and stay the night then move on to the next spot.
I would also recommend the North Rim over the south rim as it is more rustic and not as popular as the south rim. We camped there for two days on our last road trip before coming back to VA and while i was glad we stayed 2 nights because we had a long drive ahead of us, if we were going to visit i think a day or day and a half would be more than sufficent. You do have to see it both at sunset and sunrise though as they are completely different views.
I would also recommend the North Rim over the south rim as it is more rustic and not as popular as the south rim. We camped there for two days on our last road trip before coming back to VA and while i was glad we stayed 2 nights because we had a long drive ahead of us, if we were going to visit i think a day or day and a half would be more than sufficent. You do have to see it both at sunset and sunrise though as they are completely different views.
06-14-2013, 07:45 AM
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Grand Canyon, FTMFW! I could go 100 times and still see something new each time. There's a thread over on WF where somebody drove their jeep on a trail from the rim to the bottom. You can even get a permit to camp on the bottom. The bottom will be hot this time of year and I have no idea how far in advance you'd need to get a camping permit.
Post pics whatever you end up doing.
Post pics whatever you end up doing.
06-14-2013, 08:17 AM
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I have not personally done the route but check out Canyonlands via the white rim trail its a 100 mile backcountry road with back country camping takes 2-3 days to complete the route. Reservations are required in advance only a certain amount of campsites. Plus there are a lot of other things to see in Moab. Check out this post on the trail https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/jk-t...th-rim-277458/
06-14-2013, 11:03 AM
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I have not personally done the route but check out Canyonlands via the white rim trail its a 100 mile backcountry road with back country camping takes 2-3 days to complete the route. Reservations are required in advance only a certain amount of campsites. Plus there are a lot of other things to see in Moab. Check out this post on the trail https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/jk-t...th-rim-277458/
06-15-2013, 05:02 AM
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The Grand Canyon is beautiful, I go almost once a year. For a full experience I would visit both the north and south rim. There is a distinct difference in both, but both are still amazing.
06-15-2013, 07:05 AM
#7
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Go to Canyonlands. I've been to both many, many times. For Grand Canyon: North Rim. Toroweap. South Rim. BLM land. Canyonlands: White Rim Trail. Island in the Sky. Needles. Elephant Hill Trail.
Just a short story to emphasize how much better Canyonlands is than the Grand Canyon: I took a longtime friend of mine (we served in Vietnam War together) to Canyonlands a few years ago. His first off-road trip. We did White Rim Trail and Elephant Hill Trail (among others in Moab). On the way back to Oklahoma he asked how far out of the way it would be to go see the Grand Canyon--he'd never seen it before. I suggested that if he wanted to take out time going back that it would be better to head through southern Colorado and maybe visit Great Sand Dunes and perhaps Black Canyon of the Gunnison. But he said he wanted to see the Grand Canyon. Bucket list and all of that. So, we drove down there. On the way to Flagstaff, where we were going to spend the night, we passed not too far from the eastern entrance to the south rim. I asked if he wanted to make a brief stop there, and he agreed. So, we went in, headed for Desert View Watchtower, and parked the Jeep along with at least 200-300 other vehicles in this monster parking lot. We walked over to the edge and there was the magnificence of the canyon spread before us. Along with dozens and dozens of other people crowding to see the view and take a picture and so on. I guess that's why they have a fence--to keep from having anyone get pushed over. He looked at me and this is exactly what he said: "Is this all there is?" I told him we'd return the next day and take a day hike into the canyon and that he'd have a better appreciation for it, but that visiting the GC after what he'd been through in Canyonlands was completely anticlimactic--it should be kept separate and it is not anywhere near equal to Canyonlands, no matter what popular opinion might suggest.
If you must go to the GC head to the north rim as suggested. I'd recommend Toroweap. So little known that they don't even take reservations during the busiest months of the year, yet still within the national park. Depending on the route you take, the distance of off-road travel (yes!) will vary. We drove from near Fredonia 61 miles one-way and of the nine campsites there, only four were occupied. Here is my friend, two years later and now with his own Jeep, LOL, on the rim of Toroweap on the GC north rim ...
Here's the view you get of the GC from this location. Nothing on the south rim compares.
Here's a video (mostly still photos) I put together of our trip to Toroweap ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-yoPi-v5YM Now, Canyonlands. White Rim Trail is a pretty easy dirt road. Yes, there are some tight switchbacks and some pretty scary exposure on narrow roads along very high, steep, cliff-faces, but almost the entire thing can be driven in two-wheel drive. A backcountry permit is required to camp overnight, but not just to drive down and back out the same day. I strongly recommend at least the latter. You could easily pack a picnic lunch, drive down Shafer Switchbacks (good exposure), head out White Rim Trail to Lathrop Canyon, sit at a picnic table on the edge of the Colorado River, then turn around and head back out. Some great views and sights along the way. Don't miss Colorado Gooseneck (about 1/2 mile hike), Colorado Viewpoint (park your Jeep as close to the edge of the cliff as you dare, and Musselman Arch (must take a family picture while standing on top of it). All of these are shown in the video someone linked above. Also, drive the paved road along Island in the Sky and take in all of the sights from up there. And, when you're standing on the rim of the canyon at Grand Viewpoint, imagine how fantastic it must be to be down on White Rim Trail, which you can clearly see below you from there.
If you were to decide to camp on WRT, do be aware that procedures for backcountry permits changed a few days ago (literally). Instead of one year advance permitting, they've shortened it to a few months. Not certain exactly when that starts, so suggest you do some research, and be certain you're getting information from the National Park Service itself, and not some website that is still carrying the now outdated procedures.
Here are some of the views in Canyonlands ...
Short hike from Island in the Sky paved road ...
Headed down Shafer Switchbacks ...
Musselman Arch ...
View from near Airport (just past Lathrop Canyon turn-off) ...
Finally, suggest you pick up a copy of Wells' book on Moab, which includes White Rim Trail (and Elephant Hill Trail, if you're interested in a more technical drive). Also, these are pretty popular trails, but I've been on WRT in August and only saw one other party--a lone bicyclist. You'd be better during the cooler times of the year. But, if you want to go on a trail (check Wells' book, there is an abundance of off-roading opportunity in the area--even in Arches National Park), you can hang around City Market (a grocery store) in Moab and find someone heading out that you can hang with. While some trails will still have plenty of traffic and you'd be okay by yourself, some are less frequented at certain times. And make certain you know the difficulty of the trails you're headed out on--there's some pretty hairy stuff in the Moab area.
Just a short story to emphasize how much better Canyonlands is than the Grand Canyon: I took a longtime friend of mine (we served in Vietnam War together) to Canyonlands a few years ago. His first off-road trip. We did White Rim Trail and Elephant Hill Trail (among others in Moab). On the way back to Oklahoma he asked how far out of the way it would be to go see the Grand Canyon--he'd never seen it before. I suggested that if he wanted to take out time going back that it would be better to head through southern Colorado and maybe visit Great Sand Dunes and perhaps Black Canyon of the Gunnison. But he said he wanted to see the Grand Canyon. Bucket list and all of that. So, we drove down there. On the way to Flagstaff, where we were going to spend the night, we passed not too far from the eastern entrance to the south rim. I asked if he wanted to make a brief stop there, and he agreed. So, we went in, headed for Desert View Watchtower, and parked the Jeep along with at least 200-300 other vehicles in this monster parking lot. We walked over to the edge and there was the magnificence of the canyon spread before us. Along with dozens and dozens of other people crowding to see the view and take a picture and so on. I guess that's why they have a fence--to keep from having anyone get pushed over. He looked at me and this is exactly what he said: "Is this all there is?" I told him we'd return the next day and take a day hike into the canyon and that he'd have a better appreciation for it, but that visiting the GC after what he'd been through in Canyonlands was completely anticlimactic--it should be kept separate and it is not anywhere near equal to Canyonlands, no matter what popular opinion might suggest.
If you must go to the GC head to the north rim as suggested. I'd recommend Toroweap. So little known that they don't even take reservations during the busiest months of the year, yet still within the national park. Depending on the route you take, the distance of off-road travel (yes!) will vary. We drove from near Fredonia 61 miles one-way and of the nine campsites there, only four were occupied. Here is my friend, two years later and now with his own Jeep, LOL, on the rim of Toroweap on the GC north rim ...
Here's the view you get of the GC from this location. Nothing on the south rim compares.
Here's a video (mostly still photos) I put together of our trip to Toroweap ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-yoPi-v5YM Now, Canyonlands. White Rim Trail is a pretty easy dirt road. Yes, there are some tight switchbacks and some pretty scary exposure on narrow roads along very high, steep, cliff-faces, but almost the entire thing can be driven in two-wheel drive. A backcountry permit is required to camp overnight, but not just to drive down and back out the same day. I strongly recommend at least the latter. You could easily pack a picnic lunch, drive down Shafer Switchbacks (good exposure), head out White Rim Trail to Lathrop Canyon, sit at a picnic table on the edge of the Colorado River, then turn around and head back out. Some great views and sights along the way. Don't miss Colorado Gooseneck (about 1/2 mile hike), Colorado Viewpoint (park your Jeep as close to the edge of the cliff as you dare, and Musselman Arch (must take a family picture while standing on top of it). All of these are shown in the video someone linked above. Also, drive the paved road along Island in the Sky and take in all of the sights from up there. And, when you're standing on the rim of the canyon at Grand Viewpoint, imagine how fantastic it must be to be down on White Rim Trail, which you can clearly see below you from there.
If you were to decide to camp on WRT, do be aware that procedures for backcountry permits changed a few days ago (literally). Instead of one year advance permitting, they've shortened it to a few months. Not certain exactly when that starts, so suggest you do some research, and be certain you're getting information from the National Park Service itself, and not some website that is still carrying the now outdated procedures.
Here are some of the views in Canyonlands ...
Short hike from Island in the Sky paved road ...
Headed down Shafer Switchbacks ...
Musselman Arch ...
View from near Airport (just past Lathrop Canyon turn-off) ...
Finally, suggest you pick up a copy of Wells' book on Moab, which includes White Rim Trail (and Elephant Hill Trail, if you're interested in a more technical drive). Also, these are pretty popular trails, but I've been on WRT in August and only saw one other party--a lone bicyclist. You'd be better during the cooler times of the year. But, if you want to go on a trail (check Wells' book, there is an abundance of off-roading opportunity in the area--even in Arches National Park), you can hang around City Market (a grocery store) in Moab and find someone heading out that you can hang with. While some trails will still have plenty of traffic and you'd be okay by yourself, some are less frequented at certain times. And make certain you know the difficulty of the trails you're headed out on--there's some pretty hairy stuff in the Moab area.
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06-15-2013, 06:01 PM
#10
JK Enthusiast
I have hiked the Grand Canyon twice, from both directions, and done a three day mountain biking trip (with one old Jeep) on the White Rim. I have also descended to Supai in the Western part of the Grand Canyon on foot. I would say that the Grand Canyon, particularly in an area with fewer or no tourists, is the single most amazing place I have ever been. There is much to experience. On the other hand, the sunset view from Murphy campsite on the White Rim, above the confluence of the Colorado and Green rivers, is so awe inspiring that it makes you contemplate the meaning of life (beer on dry ice helps). As the sun sets, the thousands of canyons in the Needles District below start as hundreds of shades of red and orange and slowly turn to hundreds of shades of gray. There are no artificial lights as far as you can see, no glow on the horizon.
As for the Grand Canyon, the North Rim is the better side to visit. It is twice as far from the river and 1,000 feet higher in elevation. There are conifer forests right up to the rim. Where the South Rim is desert like, the North Rim is lush and green. Also, there are far fewer people. If you can visit Zion on the way, all the better.
If you intend to camp, it is necessary to get permits well in advance for both places. The campsites on the White Rim are very small, intended for a single group.
The White Rim is, in my opinion, not at all technical. There are a few places where you will want to scout the seemingly disappearing route to avoid driving off a cliff. But we never put the early 80s Grand Wagoneer in 4 wheel the entire time. The mountain biking was so easy (we were competitive road cyclists at the time) that we fought over who got to drive the Jeep.
The experience I recommend is to trek on foot or by horseback to the Supai reservation. You can camp along the river or stay in the motel at the reservation. There are three falls, including famous Havasu Falls (google it for photos), and you can descend all the way to the Colorado if you like. You can get to Supai only on foot, on horseback, or by helicopter (which is cheating). Locals get around on horseback.
As for the Grand Canyon, the North Rim is the better side to visit. It is twice as far from the river and 1,000 feet higher in elevation. There are conifer forests right up to the rim. Where the South Rim is desert like, the North Rim is lush and green. Also, there are far fewer people. If you can visit Zion on the way, all the better.
If you intend to camp, it is necessary to get permits well in advance for both places. The campsites on the White Rim are very small, intended for a single group.
The White Rim is, in my opinion, not at all technical. There are a few places where you will want to scout the seemingly disappearing route to avoid driving off a cliff. But we never put the early 80s Grand Wagoneer in 4 wheel the entire time. The mountain biking was so easy (we were competitive road cyclists at the time) that we fought over who got to drive the Jeep.
The experience I recommend is to trek on foot or by horseback to the Supai reservation. You can camp along the river or stay in the motel at the reservation. There are three falls, including famous Havasu Falls (google it for photos), and you can descend all the way to the Colorado if you like. You can get to Supai only on foot, on horseback, or by helicopter (which is cheating). Locals get around on horseback.