What we're up against
JK Super Freak
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee, WI
Okay this is what we need to do
1. Get some people with a killer rig
2. Get Oprah and Donald Trump to go wheelin'
3. Have said wealthy individuals buy a small piece of land, like say....... Nevada.
4. Drink Beer.
1. Get some people with a killer rig
2. Get Oprah and Donald Trump to go wheelin'
3. Have said wealthy individuals buy a small piece of land, like say....... Nevada.
4. Drink Beer.
Last edited by danmojo82; Feb 24, 2011 at 02:30 PM.
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
From: Sterling, VA
I think it's important to realize that the person making the original post is as emphatic about their past time as we are. I am sure there are people here who don't understand how hiking to a spot can be fun when you can take the JK there instead.
It is the extremist attitude of this person that causes the confrontation between groups. Unfortunatly, very few opposing groups are able to find a middle ground to meet upon.
I think the original rant has to do with people who illegally access land they should not be on, and to that point, I agree. If we shouldn't be there, we shouldn't be there. We have many places open and available to us to use so we should leverage that opportunity instead of looking for a "quick fix".
It is unforunate that this poster is of that certain mindset that is going to cause some of our playgrounds to be shut down in the future. But unless we act responsibly, we can and will lose our rights. This does not just go for JKs, but quite a lot of access as well. I deal with this issue for mountain biking vs. horses vs. hikers as well. Everyone wants everyone else off the land so they can have it to themselves. It really is a poor and sad situation.
It is the extremist attitude of this person that causes the confrontation between groups. Unfortunatly, very few opposing groups are able to find a middle ground to meet upon.
I think the original rant has to do with people who illegally access land they should not be on, and to that point, I agree. If we shouldn't be there, we shouldn't be there. We have many places open and available to us to use so we should leverage that opportunity instead of looking for a "quick fix".
It is unforunate that this poster is of that certain mindset that is going to cause some of our playgrounds to be shut down in the future. But unless we act responsibly, we can and will lose our rights. This does not just go for JKs, but quite a lot of access as well. I deal with this issue for mountain biking vs. horses vs. hikers as well. Everyone wants everyone else off the land so they can have it to themselves. It really is a poor and sad situation.
JK Jedi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,931
Likes: 6
From: San Marcos, CA
This is one of those issues we should not take lightly!
Thanks Tracie for bring up this issue as it's one we are seeing down here in our local desert area as well...if we (jeep community) don't wake up and do the things needed to leave our wheeling spots better than we found them we could end up finding them closed...it could happen! 
Frank,
During the past month, there have been several egregious incidents where 4WD vehicles have gone off the established trails in the ABDSP with the result of serious damage to the ecosystem, which can take decades to heal. I'm not going to beat this to death, just realize that a District Ranger can shut don't a trail anytime they think the ecosystem damage is too great. Also remember, the fine for being caught running off the established trails in the ABDSP can be up to $2,000 plus costs. We, as responsible off roaders, have a duty to both the desert and our off roading community to stay on the trails and to inform others to do the same if we see them doing something stupid. As Pogo used to say, "I have seen the enemy, and it is us." BTW, the photo below is directly across from the Elephant Ears in Fish Creek.
Fred
ABDSP - Anza Borrego Desert State Park
Frank,
During the past month, there have been several egregious incidents where 4WD vehicles have gone off the established trails in the ABDSP with the result of serious damage to the ecosystem, which can take decades to heal. I'm not going to beat this to death, just realize that a District Ranger can shut don't a trail anytime they think the ecosystem damage is too great. Also remember, the fine for being caught running off the established trails in the ABDSP can be up to $2,000 plus costs. We, as responsible off roaders, have a duty to both the desert and our off roading community to stay on the trails and to inform others to do the same if we see them doing something stupid. As Pogo used to say, "I have seen the enemy, and it is us." BTW, the photo below is directly across from the Elephant Ears in Fish Creek.
Fred
JK Super Freak
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,006
Likes: 0
From: San Marcos, CA
Thanks Tracie for bring up this issue as it's one we are seeing down here in our local desert area as well...if we (jeep community) don't wake up and do the things needed to leave our wheeling spots better than we found them we could end up finding them closed...it could happen!
It's not just the "jeep community", it's ALL off-roaders (m\c's, quads, jeeps, buggies, and so on..) that play a big part in giving the Sierra Club plenty of reasons to complain to the liberal CA state legislature (Barbra Boxer, D and Diane Feinstein, D) reps, so they take action. I'm not going to cite all of the California PUBLIC land closures recently (within the last 10years) imposed, but a few bad apples ruins the barrel.
Advice to all, Please stay on established trails and respect posted signs.
Thread Starter
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
From: Laguna Hills, CA
Frank,
It's not just the "jeep community", it's ALL off-roaders (m\c's, quads, jeeps, buggies, and so on..) that play a big part in giving the Sierra Club plenty of reasons to complain to the liberal CA state legislature (Barbra Boxer, D and Diane Feinstein, D) reps, so they take action. I'm not going to cite all of the California PUBLIC land closures recently (within the last 10years) imposed, but a few bad apples ruins the barrel.
It's not just the "jeep community", it's ALL off-roaders (m\c's, quads, jeeps, buggies, and so on..) that play a big part in giving the Sierra Club plenty of reasons to complain to the liberal CA state legislature (Barbra Boxer, D and Diane Feinstein, D) reps, so they take action. I'm not going to cite all of the California PUBLIC land closures recently (within the last 10years) imposed, but a few bad apples ruins the barrel.
Again, as much as I hate politics, 40,000 voters might help a cause. Okay, pardon my rant.
Last edited by wayoflife; Feb 9, 2011 at 04:58 PM.
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
From: st. louis, MO
"The problem here is the ORV.The orv leaves the land in worse condition everytime.The orv crowd is violating the law and causing destruction.Maybe the only thing that will stop them is implementing a seizure/forfeiture law whereby if you go where you aint supposed to be you lose your vehicle.Fences are no deterent.
As you drive through red rock canyon on the 14 there is an orv area and the destruction to the landscape is tragic,predictable and progressively worsening.That this is seen as a legit activity is beyond me.
Cant people do anything without the internal combustion engine(jetski,snowmobile,atv,powerboat)?Must they drag it into every corner of the earth just like their cellphones and texting addiction?
I find it astounding that people who fight traffic during the work week and all the stress that it brings,will actually double down on weekends by not only driving a long distance to a remote area but towing another internal combustion engine vehicle via a heavy duty trailer for the mere purpose of driving that machine as aggressively and fast as possible in that remote,quiet area.The irony and absurdity is stunning.
If people cant see,enjoy the beauty of the landscape and the solitude without destroying it then they dont deserve to be able to use it. "
As you drive through red rock canyon on the 14 there is an orv area and the destruction to the landscape is tragic,predictable and progressively worsening.That this is seen as a legit activity is beyond me.
Cant people do anything without the internal combustion engine(jetski,snowmobile,atv,powerboat)?Must they drag it into every corner of the earth just like their cellphones and texting addiction?
I find it astounding that people who fight traffic during the work week and all the stress that it brings,will actually double down on weekends by not only driving a long distance to a remote area but towing another internal combustion engine vehicle via a heavy duty trailer for the mere purpose of driving that machine as aggressively and fast as possible in that remote,quiet area.The irony and absurdity is stunning.
If people cant see,enjoy the beauty of the landscape and the solitude without destroying it then they dont deserve to be able to use it. "
1) Bitch shut the fuck up!
2) Please dont generalize me with all your other stereotypes. I dont see driving in traffic stressful. I see it as another time where i get to use my toy to take me somewhere. I dont take a combustible engine every where i go. Do you take a tree everywhere you go? Do you pick up every single piece of trash you see in the street as you Drive to work in with your combustible engine? And were you not driving through red rock canyon on the 14 in order to see the orv area?
3) Put your thesaurus down and shut the fuck up, bitch.
but thats just me.
JK Super Freak
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,006
Likes: 0
From: San Marcos, CA
Therein lies the problem. The dirt bikes and quads are still in the category of ORV, so Jeepers get blamed as well. It amazes me that places, like the Bodie Wilderness for example, are being reintroduced to mining, but more areas are being closed off to off roaders...Not to mention BLM leases and who the largest holders of them are...don't get me started on that one. Anyone who knows me can attest to the fact that I love the wilderness experience as much as the hippies, but detest the Sierra Club mentality.
Again, as much as I hate politics, 40,000 voters might help a cause. Okay, pardon my rant.
Again, as much as I hate politics, 40,000 voters might help a cause. Okay, pardon my rant.
To be honest, 40k voter population\segment is a small number. They (Sierra Club) put together some strong arguments\ complaints against the off-road community. Some of the recent events like the MDR race tragedy did not help our cause, in fact the BLM revoked some off-road race permits as a result and significantly raised race permit fees on other events.
As responsible off-roaders (no matter which type), we need to be a part of the solution, set the example by staying on designated trails and respecting posted signs, and not be a part of the problem with the "I can drive\ride\krawl over anything" mentality. Otherwise, the alternative could ultimately become being relegated to Mall Krawler status when in CA.
JK Junkie
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,855
Likes: 0
From: Vista, CA
If i heard this in person three things would come out of my mouth:
1) Bitch shut the fuck up!
2) Please dont generalize me with all your other stereotypes. I dont see driving in traffic stressful. I see it as another time where i get to use my toy to take me somewhere. I dont take a combustible engine every where i go. Do you take a tree everywhere you go? Do you pick up every single piece of trash you see in the street as you Drive to work in with your combustible engine? And were you not driving through red rock canyon on the 14 in order to see the orv area?
3) Put your thesaurus down and shut the fuck up, bitch.
but thats just me.
1) Bitch shut the fuck up!
2) Please dont generalize me with all your other stereotypes. I dont see driving in traffic stressful. I see it as another time where i get to use my toy to take me somewhere. I dont take a combustible engine every where i go. Do you take a tree everywhere you go? Do you pick up every single piece of trash you see in the street as you Drive to work in with your combustible engine? And were you not driving through red rock canyon on the 14 in order to see the orv area?
3) Put your thesaurus down and shut the fuck up, bitch.
but thats just me.
JK Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 487
Likes: 0
From: Virginia Beach, VA
I agree with that statement and would add two thoughts. First Mark's post would have carried more weight without the B-word, and woman find the word to be very offensive. Just in case any of you guys didn't already know that.
JK Freak
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 827
Likes: 0
From: Socal
This is an ongoing problem and will never go away until the extremists get what they want. They unfortunately are the loudest and largely funded group (the squeaky wheel gets the grease). We all (not just Jeepers but every off-road enthusiast) need to band together and fight the good fight. They have lobbyists in Sacramento and the politicians pander to their demands, what do we have?
BTW: Calling the names and getting agressive will only help solidify their point and make us look like fools so I suggest not calling them names.
BTW: Calling the names and getting agressive will only help solidify their point and make us look like fools so I suggest not calling them names.