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Under $2500 Gen 3 LS JKU Swap??
Can it be done? A clean GEN 3 LS Swap into a JK/JKU, complete running and driving for under $2500 total out of pocket costs??? How about $2000??
Reasonable, Un-Reasonable... we shall see... :ya: Hi! guys and gals... first official post on this forum. Ive been a member of some other Jeep Forums, and a watcher, reader, lurker on this one for a while. I have 'a little' bit of Jeep background..lol. I have been wheeling, breaking and building rigs for about 30 years now. I have a few different Jeep Based businesses, Red Rock Offroad which I just moved to Phoenix AZ and I have a Jeep Rental Company out here too. The other, Truck Trends by Red Rock is in Dearborn Heights MI. I primarily do jeep builds and HEMI Swaps in both the TJ/LJ and JK Platforms out of Phoenix AZ... We do LS swaps too but overall, HEMI's are the main swaps. So I got challenged a little while back during a conversation with my shop manager, Rob and thus the reason for this thread- more on that in a minute... Rob runs the Michigan Jeep/ Truck shop... Heres the background story: He just picked up a Jeep from one of our collective friends who was also a previous employee, in early May.... 2008 Rubicon JKU 3.8/6 spd, that has definitely put in some work and also been a little neglected. It has been bashed on rocks, sent air borne at least a time or 2, on its second engine, buried in the mud, windows broken out, had panels swapped out on it, 2 clutches, 35s, then 37s now on 40s, 3 different lift kits..and yes the list continues- the transmission crossmember is toasted, geometry correction brackets are tweaked.... good times... ! :dontknow2: typical jeep life right! :thumbsup: When talking with Rob before he pull'd the trigger, knowing the history, I told him that if he got the jeep that he needed to be prepared to swap in another 3.8 or transmision sooner than later or just plan on V8 swapping it. Rob advised that the PO was also throwing in the GEN 3 LS L33 Truck 'engine' he had bought for another unrelated swap project. Rob said he totally wanted to LS swap it when the time came. Copy that! Rob made the deal. Rob, who had never owned a Jeep or been a 'Jeeper' got hooked! Fast forward 45 days: At the end of June Rob had taken the Jeep out for a wheeling and camping weekend at a local offroad park in MI with another buddy and their jeep. Mid Saturday afternoon I get a txt that said 'looks like that LS swap is gonna happen sooner than later.... just blew the trans LOL" Fanastic. With owning a Jeep shop, we have some parts 'laying around' like another 6 speed transmission out in the yard. NOPE... its LS swap time. Important Base line info- Rob physically owns the Jeep- not the shop- so this is not an all in, shop 'sponsored' project. Now enter the conversation and the challenge with Rob. Rob of course wants to LS Swap the Rubi.... Rob has the Jeep and 80% of an 2006 L33 LS engine - so along with the block heads etc, we have the harness, ecu, tac module, pedal, coil packs, intake to oil pan but... no accessories or accessory brackets or mounting bolts... thats it. We also have the fact the transmission crossmember is shot and the the suspension bracket are tweaked, still running stock control arms and 40s. Again this is Robs Jeep and he is responsible for the cost of the build. Now from my end I have a shop manager, soon to be business partner needing some assistance creating a reliable and capable Jeep that he wants to wheel and take to local/state Jeep events as both a participant and a vendor.... with a family and limited budget...: 2cents : :broke: just like most everyone out there... so lets get into it...:cheers: I start refreshing my knowledge and spend some time researching current Ls swap Kits out there from RPM, Motech and so on.... i already knew this but confirmed it... no body supports the GEN 3 swap and I totally get it as they arent CAN BUS based operating systems and dont talk to the Jeep OS. So for an off the shelf emissions compliant Jeep JK Series LS swap, the GEN 3 definitely have been left by the side of the road. But what about those who dont have to meet emissions, and dont have 8-10k for just swap parts even for a DIY build, let alone what theyre getting for GEN 4 LS and GEN 5 LT drivelines in the used market right now.. Engine costs are up 35-50% right now. Just looking at direct swap engine mounts- not some universal ebay or amazon hot rod kit you had to spend hours trying to fit- there were very limited offerings and those I found were minimum $500 to $800 and you still had to buy some sort of factory mount. Nope... not gonna happen for Rob or this build. Now I currently have a personal JKU build project going on that has an LS based engine and I used something like Genright mounts in it- again, too rich for Robs build. My other buddy just spent 8K for his GEN 4 LS 'swap kit' from a known supplier and even then, he had to source more parts from the local auto parts store and build his own exhaust system front to back. So enter the challenge... how inexpensively can a DIY legitimately do a GEN 3 swap in a JK chassis. The JK/JKU chassis are becoming more attainable just as the TJs did when the JKs came out. I went looking for threads/posts on GEN 3 LS swap in the JK platform and honestly didnt find much of relevance. I saw a few posts about low cost LS JK swaps but they ever seemed to happen. Not surprised, but again with the JKs becoming more available, I see the window of GEN 3 swaps into them getting a bit wider. Key points about GEN 3 LS swap into JK/JKU-
So coming full circle...back to the challenge, Can we build a clean LS Swap into the Rubi for less than $2500 out of pocket? let alone $2000 out of pocket? And do it with the mindset of performing the swap like a DIY? Absolutely no cutting no corners... meaning a it could be shown at events and not look like a junk yard hack build. No cheap fittings like using a barbed fitting cooler and hose clamps versus one with AN fittings on it, using all AN style fittings on the fluid components were applicable, push lock hoses, building all new 2.5 exhaust - not hacking up some stock pipes off a truck etc and including all the miscellaneous stuff like exhaust paint and heat wrap, sleeve insulation, p clamps, hose clamps, exhaust hangers etc... Lastly from a conversion shop aspect, what parts would we need to specifically create to make the install simple for the DIY guys and gals...? Obviously motor and trans mounts.. maybe a dash plate... anything else that we dont already have available? Now when I say out of pocket, that means the REAL total spent on the project once we have a running and driving LS swapped Jeep JKU, and all parts purchased and any stock parts have been 'sold off,' So if we end up spending $5000 total on the swap in cash and we sell off the stock engine, trans, t case etc... the challenge is that final number between parts purchased and parts sold needs to be less than $2500. There is the factor that yes we can buy parts at cost- a lot but not all. So I will create another column in my spreadsheet that lists retail cost and we will use that number for the challenge. Anything that Rob chooses to replace outside of the stock LS engine and transmission I am not going to include in the base challenge numbers. Even though our donor engine was included in the sale, I am factoring a line number for a fully dressed liftout engine based on facebook/CL listings. We have to acquire a few pieces to get ours to that condition because our donor didnt come with those pieces. I still believe even with some upgrades to the LS engine, we're still gonna hit the mark :?::driving: Lets get into it shall we.... |
All that brings us kinda to where we are now. I have spent the last few weeks finding the most cost effective solutions to this challenge. Rob and I have searched facebook and the local junkyards for the right deal on a transmission and transfer case..... we are down to maybe one or 2 orders from Summit for little trinket parts.... I was supposed to head to MI this week to start the build but unfortunately with trying to get 2 hemi swaps done for customers i had to push it off till after my RUBICON/FORDYCE trip at the beginning of August. In the meantime, I figured I would create this build write up as a record of the build and post info and pictures for those looking to do something like this themselves.
Okay with all that out of the way.. lets get some pics up. Heres the Jeep as Rob got it, some of you may have seen it around when Josh had it at events and trail rides, maybe even Toledo Jeep fest. She's been a tried and true rig but time for a face lift, heart transplant, color and graphics package change too... eventually wontons!!! so Rob got hooked on the Jeep thing that happened to all of us here :drunk:and finally stumbled onto the Terremoto Jeep... so this Jeep will be going yellow sooner or later:thumbsup: https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...01097b05f6.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...cac15a402f.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...70c4633ab9.jpg rob sent me a pic of him playing around learning and hitting the RTI ramp... he still had more but he wasnt sure just yet, https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...a6d668b04e.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...a49803cb11.jpg Making some cosmetic changes... new blig wheels, junked the exo cage, snorkel etc... https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...795aa73005.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...4f7ef7f4e6.jpg adding some color to it :clap: https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...7bc0e7e32f.jpg |
SO what is the overall build plan you ask... well I'll tell ya.
ENGINE We got an 2006 L33 engine as our foundation. No accessory brackets on it at all. so no ac alt or ps pump. first thing is we need to resolve that. Instead of going with a stock cast bracket that puts the PS pump lower and the return line coming off at weird spot, we are going to run one of 2 options from ICT Billet. More than likely the high mount pass side alternator mount and the high mount Power steering mount that uses the LS1 series pump. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...8eec329643.jpg ENGINE WIRING/ECU We have the wire harness from the engine so I did the stand alone mod to it. You can find the info on this modification all over the interweb so not going to go into too much detail there. Again a DIY can do it in their garage or living room while watching a movie lol... its pretty straightforward. The ECU got sent out to a Tuner for all the standard stand alone tune 'options.' https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...f574573026.jpg TRANSMISSION Here we opted for a standard 4l60e. Sure people are gonna say 'why' and 'i would have went with 4l80e' yadayada.... absolutely a 4l80e would be trans of choice but availability and cost were huge factors. For the HP and overall Swap the 4l60e will be fine. We ended up finding a hopefully decent unit from a local yard for $600 delivered to the door. Rob tossed in some new filters along with a new transmission pan that we welded in a 1/8 npt fitting so we can run a trans fluid temp sensor, just so we have some kind of reference. Yes the transmission is an earlier 4l60e which doesnt have the top 'LS' bolt hole but it will be just fine. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...e1a2c09321.jpg TRANSFER CASE Now heres where we get some more lashback... heres the deal... first off with the torque multipliers and all that jazz, we dont need to nor recommend running the stock 4:1 rubi case in this or most V8 swaps. Also adapters to mate the stock T case and 4l60e start around $600 and most require tearing apart the transmission to swap output shafts.. not in the budget so I looked at which GM T case I could use. In the LS/TJ swaps I used the GM 231C out of the s10's/blazers and did a hybrid case set up... with the weight and eventually wonton axles :wink: a light truck case just wasnt what i was looking for. So full size truck T case and definitely needed to be able to SYE kit the thing.. Enter the venerable GM 241C transfer case. With a SYE kit from JB Conversions.. this will get the job done. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...26301f1d74.jpg RADIATOR and FAN In the swap industry, its said that the stock JK radiator and fan will work just fine with a stock mild LS set up. So being a budget build, we are going to go with that. If it proves otherwise we will deal with it then. We have to 'stand alone' the fan control relays for the JK Fan HIGH and LOW Circuits as the TIPM controlled that selection before. We will add 2 high amp relays, 1 for each fan circuit. both controlled from the LS ECU. the LS has 2 fan 'outputs' which can be and are set at different temperatures. fan 1 circuit will control the low fan circuit and will run through a bypass relay and then main power will run through the stock thermal resistor in the fan shroud for the 'dropped voltage' low speed setting and when the #2 fan control for the high speed fan is triggered, it will trip the bypass relay turning off fan 1 relay. the JK fan only has 1 motor so [1] power supply at a time. TRANSMISSION and P/S COOLER We have our trans cooler ps cooler combo bracket that we use on our JK Hemi swap builds so we are just going to use the same set up on this build. We'll run a 6 pass 7000 series Derale cooler for the trans and a dual pass Derale cooler for the PS system. All the lines will be -6an push lock set up and we'll use summit twist tite hose ends. |
In talking about the steering, Rob asked if we could look into hydro assist cause its a bit to turn the 40's he said :rotflmao2: no kidding...:ok: Now this upgrade is going to happen but im not figuring it into the $2500 build challenge. Depending on where my numbers end up, I may include it at the end as total project cost thing.
Seeing its an 08 JK with the Delphi box, I told him we can tap it and do a basic hydro assist set up. The LS1 pump will work with a simple hydro assist so we're good there. I called up PSC and told them what we were getting ready to do and the concept.. and asked if they had any assist cylinders in the 'scratch and dent' bin.. my guy said the bins been pretty empty lately but would take a look... BOOM a few minutes later he comes back and says they actually have one out there... I said SEND IT! and it is on the way. PSC HYDRO ASSIST CYLINDER SC2222 is what we are going to run. its a 1.75 bore x 6.75 stroke which matches the JK steering stroke. They used to offer a 1.5 bore but that has gone by the wayside for the larger bore cylinder. A couple of -6AN to 1/4 NPT adapters for the steering box and then build custom lines once its all in. The jeep has found a bay in the shop and Rob started tearing into it... https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...af72b103af.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...9f12b7390a.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...0263602159.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...7dc2a6c676.jpg BUDGET BUILD UPDATE.... The engine and transfer case have been SOLD. I will include those numbers on the spreadsheet. Still have the other good 6 speed trans we are going to sell in place of the blown 6 speed that was in the jeep.. i think thats fair... no different if you had a running driving jeep and decided to pull the trigger on the swap, you'd sell off the good trans too. |
You are dreaming on an under $2500 swap. I would be impressed if you can do it for under $8k and you will not have any electronics working.
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Ok I have Dirtman down for 8k and no functioning electronics... Im guessing you mean no factory windows locks lights taillights etc right? if so conditions noted!
Dreaming, maybe maybe not.. its all about the numbers, part choices and expectations. Is it going to be Emissions Compliant- nope. Are we attempting to 'keep' the stock cluster for gauges.. nope. Is it going to be a clean install and appear as factory as possible when done- thats in the project goals. Ok so we know that we're not going to be able to use the stock cluster for gauges but we definitely need to monitor everything- and we want to keep an eye on trans temp as well. Speedo, Tach, Oil, Water, Fuel, Volts, and a trans temp gauge [NOT REQUIRED for the swap so Im not including it in the base numbers, but will if I come in close LOL]....Speedhut gauges- great pieces out of Robs budget, Autometer- again tried and true gauges of course but again even in the value series, were in excess of $500 minimum. Solution.. eBay specials. Less than $200 for the set after Rob sent over an offer and got an extra 10% off. All the gauges are electrical so :thumbsup: win there and the fuel level gauge was surprisingly for a 240-30 ohm sender. the JKs are 220/20 so its close enough, same thing many have done as well as ourselves since the days of the TJ which are 220/20 as well. Speedo is a GPS unit... is what it is. We could have utilized the speed signal from the GM ECU if needed, but wont need it with this kit. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...556fabce8b.jpg We're only going to be able to fit the speedo tach fuel and volts in the cluster 'area.' The water temp, oil pressure and trans temp are going to go in an Autometer triple gauge panel for 2 1/16 gauges that sits on top the center stack. For the trans temp, this eBay company doesnt offer a matching gauge so were ordering up an Equis temp gauge that is white with a red needle so close enough. I finished the wiring modifications on the donor LS harness. No real costs with that, just some garage time with the wiring board. I used a couple bucks in connectors pins race loom and wiring and it will all get added to the 'list.' When doing the harness modification I moved a bunch of the circuits around from their 'factory location.' For example moved and shortened the upper O2s, moved and shortened the MAF circuits, moved the crank/starter harness that originally ran down under and around the engine, and of course added in extra circuits for the new gauge senders that will be installed in the block/heads and trans pan. Ordered a set of LS Gauge Adapters in our summit order- Autometers kit runs $50, Intellitronix less than half for the same thing.... make good choices :rotflmao2: BEFORE https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...f07c822891.jpg AFTER https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...f0f93da5c2.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...b3e514132e.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...ac39f01dda.jpg Exhaust With the LS there is a few different options you can choose when building your exhaust. You can run stock truck manifolds but 2010 Camaro manifolds are the more common choice as they breath fairly decent and they point straight down. Our donor engine didnt come with any manifolds so we have to source them. If we had bought a 5.3 off marketplace it more than likely would have come with truck manifolds. So the manifolds are going to go in the "optional choice" category for the challenge. The Camaro headers are running about $150 for a used set right now. Plus we would have to order up mating flanges at another $20-30 on average. Not a fan of flanges, I like V Bands for our exhaust joints. We switched to running V Bands a few years back in all our builds/conversions and we have pretty much zero fitment or shifting issues when building the system and over the life of the system. A little bit of searching and we are going to try a set of eBay S-10 Swap headers- yep with V Bands... $99 shipped to the door. Bonus the included collector halves have O2 sensor bungs in them so theres $12 we dont have to spend. :thumbsup: We're not running Cats so we dont have that expense. Next on the parts list would be the tubing and bends. Solution- Summit Universal 2.5" kit. [4] 90s [4] 45s [4] 180s and [4] pieces of straight pipe. $259. Toss in a 2.5 Y Pipe by Jones for $25, 3 eBay 2.5 V Bands $42, 4 basic Walker Exhaust Hangers for $20 -Rob wanted a SpinTech Muffler, so $100 there- and we have all the components to build the exhaust. I would have either went with a basic Summit 2 chamber muffler or maybe a round Magnaflow...:dontknow: Roughly $439 for the rest of exhaust system, puts hard exhaust components right around $539. Heat Wrap and Rustoleum High Heat Ceramic Paint... comes in under $50. All exhaust line items come in at $582 retail. Rob opted to toss a BTR Truck Norris cam in the LS with some new lifters and springs and oil pump... https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...7dc5ef2e0f.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...8002027371.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...d22a2b2fee.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...e85a9d0ce3.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...d4f5139423.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...b57c7b95ee.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...5c1a4ceb6f.jpg |
Don't forget you will need two new driveshafts if you cannot make the TC flanges be in the exact same place. My 8L90 moved the TC back about 3". $12-1500 there.
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Ok on the driveshafts... Heres what we are dealing with and what the plan is.
Seeing that this jeep is a 2008, its been around for a minute. Both the front and rear-less than desirable rzeppa style shafts- were already swapped out a few years ago for DC/CV driveshafts like most JK/JKUs that are actually wheeled etc or have some miles on them :thumbsup: JBC only offers [3] yoke options with the 241C kit, 1310 CV 1350 Non-CV and 1350 Flange. When I ordered the SYE kit from JBC I wanted the version with the 1350 flange but the rep said it would be months before they got them in, so not a choice but a lack of options thing, its 1310 CVs for now. We're more than likely going to do wontons in the winter so we'll upgrade to the 1350 flange/flanges then. The 241C has a standard U joint yoke on the front output so no need to swap anything out there. Right now the current plan for driveshafts is- like any other build- get the driveline in place, measure and go from there. Once we have measurements, we'll take the shafts we have to our local D/S shop and get them shortened, lengthened, rebuilt etc.. We just had a rear DC shaft re-sized & balanced last week and it cost us $90, so I'm gonna budget $200 per shaft for now until we get to that portion of the project. :dighole: |
Had a little time this afternoon while I was waiting for my cousins kid to show up so we could work on his 5.0 Ranger swap...:thumbsup: Hes learning and what better way to fix a coolant leak than swap the 4cyl for a good ole 5.0... I mean sounds right along the same road we're on here... anyways messed with a relay box for the LS requirements.
Amazon relay box with relays. Gives me 6 relays/6 fuse spots. I was going to tie the relay control signals from the LS ECU into the Jeep TIPM but just opted to keep the stand alone aspect. The relay box will handle-
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...4ef522d0e6.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jk-...61815a42d7.jpg I'll finish it up sometime this week, put connectors on the leads and stick it in the harness box.... |
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