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Modified JK Tech Tech related bulletin board forum regarding subjects such as suspension, tires & wheels, steering, bumpers, skid plates, drive train, cages, on-board air and other useful modifications that will help improve the performance and protection of your Jeep JK Wrangler (Rubicon, Sahara, Unlimited and X) on the trail.

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Cheap power upgrades?

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Old Jan 10, 2015 | 08:00 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by immortalmetal
I for one, like the exhaust and cai. Cai is better breathing for the engine. This is such a debate, I'm not getting into. But I do cai and exhaust upgrade on all my vehicles.
tuner does help too
True for a CAI, if it's a true CAI and not the short ram intake you probably have installed in your JK. Even then with a true CAI mounted in the proper place the power gains will be very little and most will be felt in the high RPM range. Actually you could try to run with no intake at all and see little or no increases at all because a naturally aspirated engine will still be limited by the vaccuum created by the intake cycle of the engine and the intake runners themselves, which have not changed. I'm so sick of hearing about these so called cold air intakes, that will do wonders for a power increase, which are nothing more than a short tube, (most of which are metal), with some kind of cone filter attached to the front, sitting in the engine bay, under the hood. As for better breathing for the engine, stick your head in an oven heated to about 240-280* and see how much better you can breath. Better yet let your engine reach normal operating temperature then guickly open your hood and wrap your hands around that metal tube of your so called CAI and tell me how cold it really is. Do either of these and you will quickly see there is no cold there.
As for the exhaust, unless it is some kind of extractor exhaust system, on a naturally aspirated engine it will not make a difference because again it will be limited to the pressure of the exhaust cycle and the exhaust manifold itself. It may reduce a bit of back pressure, but then again youre stock engine would have to be tuned properly for the exhaust system.
These things are nothing more than a marketing gimmic to get your hard earned $$$$$$.
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Old Jan 10, 2015 | 09:09 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Lorrel
True for a CAI, if it's a true CAI and not the short ram intake you probably have installed in your JK. Even then with a true CAI mounted in the proper place the power gains will be very little and most will be felt in the high RPM range. Actually you could try to run with no intake at all and see little or no increases at all because a naturally aspirated engine will still be limited by the vaccuum created by the intake cycle of the engine and the intake runners themselves, which have not changed. I'm so sick of hearing about these so called cold air intakes, that will do wonders for a power increase, which are nothing more than a short tube, (most of which are metal), with some kind of cone filter attached to the front, sitting in the engine bay, under the hood. As for better breathing for the engine, stick your head in an oven heated to about 240-280* and see how much better you can breath. Better yet let your engine reach normal operating temperature then guickly open your hood and wrap your hands around that metal tube of your so called CAI and tell me how cold it really is. Do either of these and you will quickly see there is no cold there. As for the exhaust, unless it is some kind of extractor exhaust system, on a naturally aspirated engine it will not make a difference because again it will be limited to the pressure of the exhaust cycle and the exhaust manifold itself. It may reduce a bit of back pressure, but then again youre stock engine would have to be tuned properly for the exhaust system. These things are nothing more than a marketing gimmic to get your hard earned $$$$$$.

And your opinions are opinions and not based on facts at all.

Try sticking your head in an oven and breathing. Now try breathing through a gas mask with your head in oven- let me know which is easier to get air in.


While most cai don't provide true cold air- they allow more than twice the amount of air to enter engine. The gains are in fact minimal! But there are gains.
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Old Jan 10, 2015 | 09:45 AM
  #23  
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Yeah, what he said
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Old Jan 10, 2015 | 03:03 PM
  #24  
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I have the Superchips Traildash. It definitely makes my Jeep have more pep.
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Old Jan 10, 2015 | 03:26 PM
  #25  
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It's a rolling lunch box... add lift, bumpers, winch, big tires and wheels and you have a recipe for 13 - 14 mpg... just saying
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Old Jan 10, 2015 | 06:20 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by scooby snacks
It's a rolling lunch box... add lift, bumpers, winch, big tires and wheels and you have a recipe for 13 - 14 mpg... just saying
I chopped top off of mine and gave it an angled windshield and a spoiler in the back and gained 3mpg
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Old Jan 11, 2015 | 09:00 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by cormac827
And your opinions are opinions and not based on facts at all.

Try sticking your head in an oven and breathing. Now try breathing through a gas mask with your head in oven- let me know which is easier to get air in.


While most cai don't provide true cold air- they allow more than twice the amount of air to enter engine. The gains are in fact minimal! But there are gains.
I think all will agree with the fact that an internal combustion engine will run better with cold dense air. That is it will make more HP/torque, and run more efficiently.
So the question is do cold air intakes (CAI's) really provide this? Or is this just a marketing ploy to get your hard earned cash?
True cold air intakes would provide colder air, but to get this colder air where would it have to come from? If it is located inside the engine bay, I belive all will agree this air would be the same air the stock airbox get its air. Therefor it is not really a cold air intake at all, but rather what is called a short ram intake. But how then do short ram intakes ram air? They don't, so it's just a catchy name.
Now getting back to the so called CAI's. How can they allow the engine to make more power?
We know they do not really deliver cold air. And they do not have the ability to compress and ram air. How then do they allow the engine to make more power? If they do not deliver cold air, and they do not compress and ram air. How do they work?
The naturally aspirated engine can be looked at as an air pump. During the intake cycle the intake valves open and the engine sucks air into the cylinder where it mates with the fuel provided by the injectors. This mixture is then compressed during the compression cycle. During the power cycle a spark is initiated by the spark plug which ignites the mixture driving the piston downward. During the next cycle what is in the cylinder is exhausted when the exhaust valve opens. If all this is true, then all must agree this so called CAI can do nothing more than the stock airbox and intake tube can do. What then is the mystery of how this so called CAI allows the engine to somehow make more power? Perhaps the factory airbox is the culpret by actually restricting the air to the engine whereas the so called CAI does not?
In these days where all automobile manufactures are trying to get the most HP/Torque and the best MPG from their engines as they can, my question then becomes. Why would they restrict the air to the engine, making it less efficient then it could be. And do they really restrict the air? Because if not then the so called CAI becomes not a HP/Torque adder at all, but rather just another plumbing assembly to get air to the intake plenum. And talking about the air intake plenum, even if the aftermarket intake provides more than what is required for the engine how does it get through the plenum any faster with more volume?
A 3.8 liter naturally aspirated engine has about 231.9 cubic inches. With that in mind the engine for maximum efficiency requires 267 CFM of air, or at 5000 RPM about 7,571 CFM air.
It is almost impossable to find the CFM air specs for the OEM intake system of the JK/JKU, but on the other hand I could not find the CFM ratings on any aftermarket system either.
I would have to believe though, that any automobile manufacturer would have to provide at least the minimum CFM of air for the engine to run properly since the engine requirement for air is based on a mathamatical formula, and controlled by the computer through various sensor inputs and programed outputs to the engine.
7,571 cubic feet of air does seem like quite alot, but then again when do we run our Jeeps at 5000 RPM's for any length of time. I know I don't!
So now I ask. Can anyone tell me how any CAI, short ram, long ram, or any other intake outside of forced air induction allow the engine to make more power?
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Old Jan 11, 2015 | 05:55 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Lorrel
I think all will agree with the fact that an internal combustion engine will run better with cold dense air. That is it will make more HP/torque, and run more efficiently. So the question is do cold air intakes (CAI's) really provide this? Or is this just a marketing ploy to get your hard earned cash? True cold air intakes would provide colder air, but to get this colder air where would it have to come from? If it is located inside the engine bay, I belive all will agree this air would be the same air the stock airbox get its air. Therefor it is not really a cold air intake at all, but rather what is called a short ram intake. But how then do short ram intakes ram air? They don't, so it's just a catchy name. Now getting back to the so called CAI's. How can they allow the engine to make more power? We know they do not really deliver cold air. And they do not have the ability to compress and ram air. How then do they allow the engine to make more power? If they do not deliver cold air, and they do not compress and ram air. How do they work? The naturally aspirated engine can be looked at as an air pump. During the intake cycle the intake valves open and the engine sucks air into the cylinder where it mates with the fuel provided by the injectors. This mixture is then compressed during the compression cycle. During the power cycle a spark is initiated by the spark plug which ignites the mixture driving the piston downward. During the next cycle what is in the cylinder is exhausted when the exhaust valve opens. If all this is true, then all must agree this so called CAI can do nothing more than the stock airbox and intake tube can do. What then is the mystery of how this so called CAI allows the engine to somehow make more power? Perhaps the factory airbox is the culpret by actually restricting the air to the engine whereas the so called CAI does not? In these days where all automobile manufactures are trying to get the most HP/Torque and the best MPG from their engines as they can, my question then becomes. Why would they restrict the air to the engine, making it less efficient then it could be. And do they really restrict the air? Because if not then the so called CAI becomes not a HP/Torque adder at all, but rather just another plumbing assembly to get air to the intake plenum. And talking about the air intake plenum, even if the aftermarket intake provides more than what is required for the engine how does it get through the plenum any faster with more volume? A 3.8 liter naturally aspirated engine has about 231.9 cubic inches. With that in mind the engine for maximum efficiency requires 267 CFM of air, or at 5000 RPM about 7,571 CFM air. It is almost impossable to find the CFM air specs for the OEM intake system of the JK/JKU, but on the other hand I could not find the CFM ratings on any aftermarket system either. I would have to believe though, that any automobile manufacturer would have to provide at least the minimum CFM of air for the engine to run properly since the engine requirement for air is based on a mathamatical formula, and controlled by the computer through various sensor inputs and programed outputs to the engine. 7,571 cubic feet of air does seem like quite alot, but then again when do we run our Jeeps at 5000 RPM's for any length of time. I know I don't! So now I ask. Can anyone tell me how any CAI, short ram, long ram, or any other intake outside of forced air induction allow the engine to make more power?
And I was one of the dumbass's that put a CAI on my 3.8 from the manufacturers website! I have not noticed anything after the install from day one! The only thing that was noticed was my son telling me that he likes the "Whistle" coming from under the hood. So, all the BS about adding HP/Torque is just that....BS! JMO

Sent from the swamp while taggin' a gator!
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Old Jan 11, 2015 | 06:18 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Lorrel
I think all will agree with the fact that an internal combustion engine will run better with cold dense air. That is it will make more HP/torque, and run more efficiently. So the question is do cold air intakes (CAI's) really provide this? Or is this just a marketing ploy to get your hard earned cash? True cold air intakes would provide colder air, but to get this colder air where would it have to come from? If it is located inside the engine bay, I belive all will agree this air would be the same air the stock airbox get its air. Therefor it is not really a cold air intake at all, but rather what is called a short ram intake. But how then do short ram intakes ram air? They don't, so it's just a catchy name. Now getting back to the so called CAI's. How can they allow the engine to make more power? We know they do not really deliver cold air. And they do not have the ability to compress and ram air. How then do they allow the engine to make more power? If they do not deliver cold air, and they do not compress and ram air. How do they work? The naturally aspirated engine can be looked at as an air pump. During the intake cycle the intake valves open and the engine sucks air into the cylinder where it mates with the fuel provided by the injectors. This mixture is then compressed during the compression cycle. During the power cycle a spark is initiated by the spark plug which ignites the mixture driving the piston downward. During the next cycle what is in the cylinder is exhausted when the exhaust valve opens. If all this is true, then all must agree this so called CAI can do nothing more than the stock airbox and intake tube can do. What then is the mystery of how this so called CAI allows the engine to somehow make more power? Perhaps the factory airbox is the culpret by actually restricting the air to the engine whereas the so called CAI does not? In these days where all automobile manufactures are trying to get the most HP/Torque and the best MPG from their engines as they can, my question then becomes. Why would they restrict the air to the engine, making it less efficient then it could be. And do they really restrict the air? Because if not then the so called CAI becomes not a HP/Torque adder at all, but rather just another plumbing assembly to get air to the intake plenum. And talking about the air intake plenum, even if the aftermarket intake provides more than what is required for the engine how does it get through the plenum any faster with more volume? A 3.8 liter naturally aspirated engine has about 231.9 cubic inches. With that in mind the engine for maximum efficiency requires 267 CFM of air, or at 5000 RPM about 7,571 CFM air. It is almost impossable to find the CFM air specs for the OEM intake system of the JK/JKU, but on the other hand I could not find the CFM ratings on any aftermarket system either. I would have to believe though, that any automobile manufacturer would have to provide at least the minimum CFM of air for the engine to run properly since the engine requirement for air is based on a mathamatical formula, and controlled by the computer through various sensor inputs and programed outputs to the engine. 7,571 cubic feet of air does seem like quite alot, but then again when do we run our Jeeps at 5000 RPM's for any length of time. I know I don't! So now I ask. Can anyone tell me how any CAI, short ram, long ram, or any other intake outside of forced air induction allow the engine to make more power?

No usually get up to 5krpm a lot while off-roading but that's just me.

More air equals more power simply. Dense air only provides more power because their is more oxygen per cubic foot
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Old Jan 11, 2015 | 06:19 PM
  #30  
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"Cheap" and "power" don't go together. You have one or the other. Ya can't have both.
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