Death Wobble / Caster correlation?
08-27-2010, 05:10 AM
#11
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You almost certainly have a bound/pre-loaded frame side trackbar bushing and a less than 125 lbs torqued axle side bolt.
The combination is likely the source of the DW.
The dealer should not cover it under warranty because it was caused by improper installation and maintenance of after market parts.
It is easy to fix. Remove the trackbar so you can inspect the bushings and bolt holes. If the axle side bracket holes are ovaled out, any shop can weld washers to the bracket to fix it.
You should inspect your other front end components to make sure they were not also damaged by the DW.
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The combination is likely the source of the DW.
The dealer should not cover it under warranty because it was caused by improper installation and maintenance of after market parts.
It is easy to fix. Remove the trackbar so you can inspect the bushings and bolt holes. If the axle side bracket holes are ovaled out, any shop can weld washers to the bracket to fix it.
You should inspect your other front end components to make sure they were not also damaged by the DW.
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08-27-2010, 06:58 AM
#13
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Death Wobble video. This TJ was at a dealer that my friend works at. They had a hard time figuring it out. Alignment was OK, Tires balanced Ok, no worn parts. Turns out the Steering Stabilizer was failing. The oil in the stabilizer would foam and the oscillation just got out of hand due to the Jeeps aggressive toe in, and straight axle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GupYHM1pCcY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GupYHM1pCcY
08-27-2010, 06:58 AM
#14
JK Super Freak
You take your Jeep to an alignment shop, that's how. Or you can rely on a $6 angle finder from the hardware store. I prefer the the former myself (a shop's machine is accurate to the hundredth of a degree).
I'm in total agreement with planman. Low caster is not the root cause of DW. Never has been, won't be anytime soon.
I've carefully installed every front end component on my rig and now run less than 3 degrees caster w/my new coils. My Jeep steers more quickly than it did stock, but is in no way is evil handling. Plus, I have a healthy pinion angle and zero vibration (which can lead to costly headaches).
I'm in total agreement with planman. Low caster is not the root cause of DW. Never has been, won't be anytime soon.
I've carefully installed every front end component on my rig and now run less than 3 degrees caster w/my new coils. My Jeep steers more quickly than it did stock, but is in no way is evil handling. Plus, I have a healthy pinion angle and zero vibration (which can lead to costly headaches).
08-27-2010, 07:46 AM
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anyone have any pictures of good vs bad bushings? When I pulled the track bar off Wednesday the holes looked good, in fact the bolts were actually tight to get in and out. I appreciate all the help guys.
08-27-2010, 08:18 AM
#16
JK Enthusiast
9 out of 10 times, these "death wobble" threads are a steering wheel shimmy.
9 and a 1/2 times out of 10 it is a tire balancing issue.
If there was a issue with the Jeep, you would not make it to 75 mph.
9 and a 1/2 times out of 10 it is a tire balancing issue.
If there was a issue with the Jeep, you would not make it to 75 mph.
08-27-2010, 08:21 AM
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The DW in the video is caused by loose or worn components. There is no way that it was caused by a failing steering stabilizer. A steering stabilizer is simply a mask. It will not tighten loose bolts or fix ovaled out bolt holes.
The dealership techs are incompetent if they could not find the source.
The new steering stabilizer will eventually fail because it will not be able to continue to mask the source. The source will get progressively worse and worse until there is a catastrophic failure--like the axle side trackbar bracket welds breaking off.
The dealer tech needed to remove and inspect the bushings and bolt holes for the trackbar, trackbar brackets, and front lower control arms and brackets. He needed to inspect the ball joints, drag link joints, and tie rod end joints. He needed to have someone cycle the steering with the tires on the ground while he manually, visually, and auditorily inspected all the front end components for the source. This requires more than an alignment and "looking for worn parts."
The next owner of that TJ will end up with catastrophic failures at some point.
The dealership techs are incompetent if they could not find the source.
The new steering stabilizer will eventually fail because it will not be able to continue to mask the source. The source will get progressively worse and worse until there is a catastrophic failure--like the axle side trackbar bracket welds breaking off.
The dealer tech needed to remove and inspect the bushings and bolt holes for the trackbar, trackbar brackets, and front lower control arms and brackets. He needed to inspect the ball joints, drag link joints, and tie rod end joints. He needed to have someone cycle the steering with the tires on the ground while he manually, visually, and auditorily inspected all the front end components for the source. This requires more than an alignment and "looking for worn parts."
The next owner of that TJ will end up with catastrophic failures at some point.
I'm sure there is more to the TJ wobble than that. Judging by the Used window sticker in the video, I'm not sure he cared. Make it stop doing that I'm sure his boss said. If you ever wonered whats behind a dealership... thats it.
08-27-2010, 08:37 AM
#18
JK Enthusiast
We have to replace the stabilizers on our sportbikes every few years, not masking any problems there. The oil just gets dirty and foams. Replace it or risk a "Tank-slapper", so they do fail without other problems.
I'm sure there is more to the TJ wobble than that. Judging by the Used window sticker in the video, I'm not sure he cared. Make it stop doing that I'm sure his boss said. If you ever wonered whats behind a dealership... thats it.
I'm sure there is more to the TJ wobble than that. Judging by the Used window sticker in the video, I'm not sure he cared. Make it stop doing that I'm sure his boss said. If you ever wonered whats behind a dealership... thats it.
08-27-2010, 08:57 AM
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In my case "Tire Slip" or "Floating" the front tire. I have been racing 1000cc for a few years, on the injured list right now. And yes... the REAL death wobble.
08-27-2010, 09:34 AM
#20
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The way to check them is to run a large screw driver through the bolt hole sleeve in the bushing.
Then leverage the sleeve from side to side and back and forth to inspect for cracks in the bushing material or separation of the sleeve from the bushing material.
The easy way to remove or install the trackbar bolts is to have a helper slowly cycle the steering while you pull out or insert the axle side trackbar bolt--assuming the frame side bolt has already been installed but left untorqued.
Then leverage the sleeve from side to side and back and forth to inspect for cracks in the bushing material or separation of the sleeve from the bushing material.
The easy way to remove or install the trackbar bolts is to have a helper slowly cycle the steering while you pull out or insert the axle side trackbar bolt--assuming the frame side bolt has already been installed but left untorqued.