Long Arm vs. Short Arm lift kits
 

Ok, New to jeeping and had a quick question and I hope this is a basic answer but I dont want to make the assumption and go with the wrong kit.

1. What is the main difference (This is the basic answer part I was talking about)
2. What advantages/disadvantages to I have with each kit?

Short arm uses the existing control arm brackets.long arm requires that they are cut off and new ones are welded on. Short arm retains the factory geometry while long arm corrects the control arm angle to the new lift height. Short arm = cheaper and bolt on while long arm = expensive and welding and labor intensive. Long arm gives you a better ride and less bump steer. Long arm is badass and short arm is ok up to a certain height (about 3") and then long arm is a better choice for ride quality.

I agree with some of this. Long are will give you more articulation due to the arms being longer than short arms. I went with a RE 4.5 short arm kit and the ride is as good if not a little better than stock with 37's. But I went with fox resi shocks all new track bar and adjustable arms and such. I did a complete kit. Now I can add long arms and all I need are the arms and brackets but I'm not doing no crazy rock climbing so no need for me. I did redo my steering also went with the high steer setup and fox steering stabilizer. I love it. I'd say if your not going to go out everyday and do some crazy rock climbing don't waste the money on a long arm kit. That's my opinion. Here's my ride.



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I agree with all of this, but want to clarify the "more" articulation part. The TJ's benefited greatly from long arm kits. The articulation really went up on a TJ when you added a long arm kit. (I had the TF long arm kit on my TJ and it was great.) However, I think too many people are assuming the same thing applies with JKs, or specifically JK Unlimiteds. When researching lift kits, I asked vendors for RTI scores for their long arm and short arm (if applicable) kits. Of the ones that would actually share those numbers, the differences were well below what you might expect. Measurable, yes, but worth the expense and extra installation work? I couldn't justify it. I found, based on the vendor provided numbers, less than a 10% increase in RTi scores. So I suppose it you are in need of every last millimeter of articulation, a long arm kit makes sense. If that is not a major factor (a slight increase in articulation) then stay with a short arm kit. I am running a 4.5" AEV kit with 37s and love it.

Cool where's the pics? Ur right I t
Just assumed we were talking about jk's

I think its important to remember, the true benefits of a long arm kit will be noticed more ON road rather than off road. Yes, you will get better articulation off road, but for most of us, we spend more time on road. And a long arm kit will have better road manners.

the taller you go, the steeper the angle your factory control arms or, "short arms" will sit. when significant enough, this change in geometry will effect the ride and handling of your jeep adversely. on a old TJ which had really really short arms, this was something you saw right away however, on a JK, a vehicle which comes with significantly longer control arms right from the factory, it's something you really don't need to address until you get to about 4" of lift or taller. long arms require you to install new control arm mounts further back on your frame and by virtue of this, helps to help flatten and correct your suspention geometry to being closer to stock. this greatly improves your ride and is really noticable ON PAVEMENT.

cost is the biggest advantage to short arms as they are much more affordable and require no additional labor to install. long arms cost a lot more right off the bat and require a lot of cutting, grinding, welding and or drilling. needless to say, they are expensive but, well worth it IF you are going to lift your jeep over 4". assuming you did an apples to apples comparison with 2 JK's with the exact same lift and shock lengths only one with short arms and the other with long arms, you would see less axle swipe and more accurate articulation with long arms but, the actual amount of flex would be about the same.

not true at all. long arms will not give you any more articulation than short arms, they simply correct suspension geometry after a tall lift has been installed.

"crazy rock climbing" should have no bearing whether or not you install long arms as the most benefit you will see from them is ON PAVEMENT. if you spend most of your time ON PAVEMENT, i would HIGHLY recommend long arms as the ride and handling it will offer will be far superior to short arms. trust me, i have run both setups and with 37's multiple times and even with coil overs and can tell you this from first hand experience.

you're saying that you tested both with the exact same lift height and exact same shock length only one with aftermarket short arms with flexable joints and one with long arms and the later did better? i'd like to see the proof of this.

RTI scores are so completely relative and will vary GREATLY depending on lift height, shock length, tire size, wheel base, tire pressure, angle of ramp, whether you do it forward or backward and the accuracy of how it's done from one test to the other. to take someones word use it as some kind a guage to determine what does better is about as good as having someone flex out on a rock and say, "hey, it flexes great".

you're talking about articulation like it means something and then say you're running a kit that uses over priced relocation brackets in conjunction to factory arms as if it should be an example of what works well? LOL!!

We have a breaking point for the JK at 3.5" of lift. Over that height we push the long arm setup for geometry purposes.

Like WayofLife said, your real limiting factory will be shock lenghs. For example, a 4 door outfitted with our 3.5" X Factor Mid Arm System will allow you to pick up one rear tire 40" off the ground with our shocks prior to having any other shock come off the ground. One of our long arm systems would do exactly the same thing number wise. However, with a long arm system, the body roll experienced will be 10 degrees less with a long arm versus the mid arm system since our systems have no naturaly binding points.


Long Arm Systems can be tailered to do many different things, like minimize natural suspension bind so your vehicle stays more balanced in off-road situations. When you are looking to do a long arm system, you will have to really look at the geometry of them to find the one that best suits your needs.

At the end of the day, it is up to you. The JK is very different than the TJ... The TJ's almost had to have long arms because the OEM geometry was so bad once they were lifted. For the JK's, that is not the case

Rock Krawler

Thank you for the responses! I guess my next question would be, if I don't plan on going past 3" of lift (possibly 3.5 but most likely not), would i benefit getting a long arm kit for the daily driver or would I be ok with a short arm kit. I know you mentioned that this mainly benefits lifts from 4" up but I have no desire to go that big.

Again, thank you for your responses.

again, the JK's come with pretty long arms right from the factory and, if you're only going up to 3.5" of lift, i would stick with short arms. sure, you would feel benefits from long arms as a daily driver but, i don't know if i could say that the improvement at that small of a lift is enough to justify the cost. i mean if money is no object, sure, there are definitely 3" long arm kits out there but, if staying within a budget is necessary, i think you'll be quite happy with a good lift kits that comes complete with adjustable control arms and track bars to dial everything in.

Something I didn't see mentioned in this very good discussion is the geometry approaching ledges. Long arm will have less stress on the suspension because it'll want to leverage the front wheels up and over the ledge vs. short arm where the front wheels will want to torque back under the Jeep. Just my observation and very humble but possibly wrong opinion - LA has some advantage wheeling too mostly in the taller 4"+ sizes for lift.

oh, it definitely has advantages and they will allow for more accurate articulation without sweeping. i was just pointing out that "most" of the benefits you will see will not necessarily be in flex or "crazy rock climbing" as had been suggested.

I was merely attempting to share information. I thought that was what this site was about. But instead I get ridiculed and belittled for posting information that was provided to me by vendors - some of whom are sponsors on this forum. I made it very clear that the RTI scores were from vendors and not from me. I can only assume they took care to make the tests apples to apples.

And then came the inevitable attack because I mentioned that I run an AEV lift kit - which you hate. Yeap, got it. Heard it several times now. Why does the fact that you don't like it empower you to belittle and insult those of us who do happen to like the way it performs, on and off road? Shouldn't this forum be about exchanging information, ideas and opinions without the need to insult people? Is that really necessary? What did that accomplish???

Very interesting topic and very good information. I've been thinking on going to a LA setup and this definitely helps :thumbsup:

One question: If for example I buy the Teraflex 4" LA control arms kit only and decide to go to a 6" lift springs and shocks later on(not sure why I would but just in case :D), can I use the same control arms for this or would I have to get new ones too ?

Thx

no need to get all butthurt over nothing. your "information" was more of an opinion than anything but, nobody i know stopped you from sharing it.

you can only be ridiculed if you talk like you know what you're talking about but clearly don't. as far as the information that was provided to you goes, you're the one who asked for it like it would actually mean something.

you're right, you can "only assume" and, that is why the opinions you've been pushing off as "information" is so wrong.

you'll forgive me but, i'm the one who posted up information, you just posted up misguided ideas and opinions based on assumptions. what it accomplished is that the OP and anyone else reading this thread will now know the difference. but hey, that's just me.

nope, the TF long arms are adjustable and can easily make up for the additional 2" of lift. having said that, i don't know if i'd recommend that much lift unless you're planning to run 40's.

Therza,

I'm sorry if you felt attacked by any of the threads posted. I truly do appreciate the personal experiences with these different lifts as this is my first jeep and will be lifting it for the first time. I just want to make sure I do it right the first time.

Regards

Thx Eddie, I figured I really don't need 6" but wanted to check just in case somewhere in the very distant future (very distant :crazyeyes:) I decide to run 40s :D

I have the EVO 4" springs now and 35s and I know is enough for up to 37s (which is what I want to get hopefully soon) but I want to go to a LA setup first :yup:

Thx

I have no issues with anyone correcting anything I post or pointing out when I am in error. But its the way its done. It could have been done in a more neutral format. But you seem to get some pleasure out of ridiculing people. Its a pattern...............

:rotflmao2: sorry my friend, i guess i sometimes forget how sensitive grown men are these days. i'll try to be more considerate of your feelings in the future. i hope you have a great weekend :thumbsup:

Not to misquote Rodney King but "Can we all get along?"

LOL!! we're all good :yup:

Your apology is right up there with Rush Limbaugh's apology to Ms. Fluke...............

Its not about being sensitive. Its about treating people with respect. Nothing more, nothing less. Just respect. Its not that hard to do. Just stay neutral. Your use of this :rotflmao2: made the intent of your statement different from the words you said. Everyone got that. Point made. Actually, I think it would have been better if you just stayed the course and ridiculed me directly instead of this passive ridicule approach with the :rotflmao2:

TeraFlex uses the same long arms in the 3"-4"-6" kits. :thumbsup:

:rotflmao2: i think you misunderstood my intent, i used that emoticon to show that i was actually LAUGHING AT YOU for being so sensitive - there was nothing passive about it and unlike before, i was purposefully trying ridicule you through sarcasm. i won't lie, it's difficult for me to have any respect for a grown man who chooses to get their toes stepped on so easily but hey, that's just me.

i will say however that my well wishes for you to have a great weekend were sincere. try to lighten up and try not take yourself so seriously. :thumbsup:

lmao i love that you used the term "butthurt" hahahaha.....hows the weather out in cali today??? here in tyler texas its cold as shit and rainy

Butthurt....... Those rocks were so big they made my Butthurt.

sucks!! out here, it's sunny, clear and with temps in the 80's today. it's a bummer too because it rained earlier in the week and so i had put the doors and top back on. may have to fix that :)

:rotflmao2:

And this in part is why I frequent the forum. Good information and good laughs. Always a perfect way to break up an otherwise monotonous day.

BTW: I think I used the :rotflmao2: incorrectly. I meant it as a means to describe that I was laughing my ass off at this thread, but admittedly I was not rolling on the floor.

You can tell who is used to working/being around guys and whos not!

Haha me and my friends are always ridiculing each other. Its fun, and better than being so serious all the time. And we do it so much we forget how certain people we dont know will react to how we are... And sometimes they get all buttHurt!

Its A Way Of Life!!!

haha

32 degrees here today and might warm up a little, so I don't like you much today.

:rotflmao2: OMG, that near about put a tear in my eye it was so funny :clap:

:rotflmao2: that's the spirit!! it's friday - we should all be having a good time :yup:

WOL puts information out in a straightforward way and a lot of us appreciate it, especially people like myself who are new to the game. They make trashcans for feelings.

what??? you don't like me much today??? well now i'm hurt :tearsdrip: :crazyeyes: :rotflmao2:

BTW, just took this shot out my window...

https://www.jk-forum.com/forums/atta...1&d=1331319796

:bleh:

Jerk. :rotflmao2:

I hope the seagulls find you today. :synister: To make it worse, several of my co-workers are playing in Moab today for a photo/video shoot.

lol i was bout to take doors and top off monday....checked the weather and just thought well fuck....:sad2:

i hate you lol

brain overload
 

@ WOL,

I have to admit, I've been considering the AEV 4.5 because it comes with a drag link flip and procal. I've studied the advice offered on this forum probably way too much! I do unfortunately have to work within a budget, but doing things right the first time are most important!

I am now leaning towards the EVO DoubleD Bolt-on Long Arm kit. I will be running 37's

Any experience or advice on the EVO kit would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

well, truth be told, the EVO doubleD kit is considerably more expensive than the AEV 4.5" kit but honestly, it's worth every penny. in all fairness, i could say the same about most of the 4-link long arm kits out there but, EVO is what we prefer to run. the long arms will correct your suspension geometry front AND rear (AEV only addresses the front) and, the EVO draglink flip will do an outstanding job of correcting your steering geometry. basically, you get all the performance claims that AEV makes about their kit and much much more. and, you get the added benefit of having heavy duty adjustable control arms with joints that allow for greater bind free flex. with the exception of cost, it's a kit you can't go wrong with.